Dodgem Cars and the modern day cruise ship

[glojo]

I have spent the last twenty five years dreaming of taking a cruise on a modern cruise ship, where my days will be spent getting cooked to gas mark III as I lay out on the upper deck, reading a book or just taking in the sheer beauty of relaxing on the upper deck of a beautiful ship.

 

Finally the dream has become a reality thanks to Cunard, but am I going to be the generation that might see this type of holiday change beyond all recognition?

 

Today I received literature of a cruise on a ship that not only had dodgem cars, it also had its own 'main street' A location where this street might have fun fair rides, shops, restaurants where folks can sit at 'outside' tables watching folk walk by, Ice cream machines, soda machines, all night disco just for teenagers, rock climbing, water surfing, mini golf courses, rock climbing, dedicated burgher bars, ice skating rink... The list just went on and on. I accept this may well be a beautiful holiday for families and I am an old grouch for mentioning this, but how times have changed?

 

I am NOT saying this change is wrong, indeed I am concerned for the future of the cruise industry as we see these huge ships coming into the market and if this is what the public wants then this is what the public must have.

 

I have had a very quick look at what ships are being built and for the next three to four years we are seeing huge ships which when I add up the total number of passengers they can all carry, exceeds TWENTY THOUSAND extra passengers!! Is this a sustainable figure? Can the market cater for an extra 20,000 customers every year for the foreseeable future, or will we see an industry slashing prices to try and remain competitive (or should I say afloat):eek:;)?

[newjoisey]

we maybe taking that type of ship in march,i will get back to you. we have only sailed on the qm2 [7 times] .

[glojo]

we maybe taking that type of ship in march,i will get back to you. we have only sailed on the qm2 [7 times] .

Thank you and I would indeed be interested, particulary the degree of space or privacy that you have whilst aboard the ship.

[balf]

Cruising has gone "mass market" so the cruise lines have had to cut costs to attract passengers who would never have considered it in the past. Many of these new to cruising passengers will flock to the new "resort ships" so I think the monsters will sell.

 

We certainly find a very different mix of passengers now than ten or more years ago even on the Cunard ships.

 

And even Cunard are changing with the Fly Med cruises on offer now.

 

I too would be very interested to hear from a Cunard cruiser who sails aboard a monster.

 

David.

[pepperrn]

I too would be very interested to hear from a Cunard cruiser who sails aboard a monster.

A friend and her husband (QM2 regulars (and also QE)) went on Allure of the Seas a little while ago and really liked Allure.

They were with their children and grand-kids and thought that there was so much to do, there was no chance of anyone (kids esp) being bored for a moment. Well-designed and thought out, great for families. Yes, it was almost too big, and the atmosphere in many parts of the ship were nothing like Cunard (;)) but they were impressed and pleased with this vast vessel. They didn't report (as far as I can remember) if she felt crowded or not.

I would love to visit Allure/Oasis (just to step on board one), however I don't think either would be for me for a cruise, but I'm very willing to be impressed! :)

Edited November 22, 2013 by pepperrn

[Morgans]

We've done both David and John and they were both very different but also had a lot of similarities.(if that makes sense.)

Main dining restaurants, cabins, ship's newspapers, buffets were similar. Activities, deck layout and some entertainment were very different. The big ships ( monsters) are aiming for the family market with hundreds of teenagers and children on board but to be fair they are so well catered for we didn't find this a problem. Other people have commented that they have however. The activities were spectacular as were the swimming facilities for youngsters and toddlers. We've all seen pictures of the climbing walls, the flow riders etcetera and yes with a family they are exceptional. Whether David and I would go on one of these without our daughter, son in law and grand daughter well I don't think we would as half of the ship would we of no.use to us then. The ship was packed and it was difficult to find space in the bars at times.

We had a great holiday and were well catered for but in our opinion these ships are loud and busy. If you want peace, quiet and relaxation then these are perhaps not for you. Cunard offer a more refined, quieter product. Just our opinion - I'm sure others will come along and disagree.

[glojo]

I have read lots of very favourable comments about those huge ships and as has been suggested, I feel they are catering for a market and respect to them for doing just that.

Edited November 22, 2013 by glojo

[Ray66]

I would love to visit Allure/Oasis (just to step on board one), however I don't think either would be for me for a cruise, but I'm very willing to be impressed! :)

 

You could get to at least see Oasis in Southampton next year on 15th October.

 

http://blogs.mirror.co.uk/captain-greybeard/2013/03/a-uk-first-for-record-breaker-.html

[Jim Avery]

At least no one calls that an "Ocean Liner"!

[Salacia]

The largest cruise ship, Allure of the Seas, is going into dry dock for unscheduled repair on the pods.

 

"Allure of the Seas has been experiencing unanticipated bearing wear in one of its three propulsion motors. All three motors are fully operational, and there is no impact on the maneuverability of the ship or on the safety of guests and crew. However, since the rate of bearing wear is directly related to ship speed, the ship's top speed has been limited. This has reduced the rate of bearing wear, and will ensure that all three propulsion motors are fully available for maneuvering and emergencies until repairs can be completed..." http://www.traveldailynews.com/news/article/57710/royal-caribbean-announces-allure-of#sthash.EGp9eaFX.dpuf

 

I'm wondering if this is just a one-off, or if other mega ships will encounter similar problems in the future. Being of radically different design, they really have no history to show how well they will perform in the long term. Also freak weather events seem to be occurring more often, and I also wonder what effect a mega storm with high winds would have on top heavy floating resorts. Hopefully, it will never happen.

 

Clearly mega ships are offering a totally new and different style of cruising. Only time will tell if it continues to sell in the long term as more and more of these leviathans take to the seas.

[pepperrn]

Clearly mega ships are offering a totally new and different style of cruising. Only time will tell if it continues to sell in the long term as more and more of these leviathans take to the seas.

Not quite the size of Allure/Oasis, but I see that new-build Anthem of the Seas is to be based in Southampton from 2015. Edited November 22, 2013 by pepperrn

[pepperrn]

You could get to at least see Oasis in Southampton next year on 15th October.

http://blogs.mirror.co.uk/captain-greybeard/2013/03/a-uk-first-for-record-breaker-.html

Thank you, I shall now be there on Oct 15th, thanks to you for for letting me know :) .

[glojo]

The largest cruise ship, Allure of the Seas, is going into dry dock for unscheduled repair on the pods.

 

"Allure of the Seas has been experiencing unanticipated bearing wear in one of its three propulsion motors. All three motors are fully operational, and there is no impact on the maneuverability of the ship or on the safety of guests and crew. However, since the rate of bearing wear is directly related to ship speed, the ship's top speed has been limited. This has reduced the rate of bearing wear, and will ensure that all three propulsion motors are fully available for maneuvering and emergencies until repairs can be completed..." http://www.traveldailynews.com/news/article/57710/royal-caribbean-announces-allure-of#sthash.EGp9eaFX.dpuf

 

I'm wondering if this is just a one-off, or if other mega ships will encounter similar problems in the future. Being of radically different design, they really have no history to show how well they will perform in the long term. Also freak weather events seem to be occurring more often, and I also wonder what effect a mega storm with high winds would have on top heavy floating resorts. Hopefully, it will never happen.

 

Clearly mega ships are offering a totally new and different style of cruising. Only time will tell if it continues to sell in the long term as more and more of these leviathans take to the seas.

 

 

Certainly a lot of ifs in your post, but is this new technology and are we still seeing teething problems? (yes, I accept the QM2 has them)

 

When reading about the equipment fitted to this ship, a thing that stood out to me was..

ABB Marine’s Azipod XO pod, assembled in Helsinki, offers a near-10% improvement in fuel efficiency and new bearing and seal arrangements allow servicing and replacement to be made from inside the pod.

 

It would be totally wrong to speculate but I wonder what the engineers will be paying close attention to?

 

Whilst I am also wondering all over this page... I wonder how much vibration was coming from those worn bearings?

 

Hopefully this is a one off situation as those drives are an amazing piece of kit which I am looking forward to discussing with the officers on the Queen Elizabeth.

 

Thank you for that interesting link and replacing the worn bearings does not sound like a difficult task... Finding the cause might be a different story!!:eek:

[Strictly Ballroom]

I used to really enjoy Royal Caribbean back when most of their ships were Vision Class (under, or around 2,000 passengers), and the Brilliance ships were brand new. It was once they started with the behemoths that I wanted nothing to do with it any more. In some ways I still *do* miss RC those ships were a lot of fun, but I just cannot handle that many people in an enclosed space.

[pmb1]

The largest cruise ship, Allure of the Seas, is going into dry dock for unscheduled repair on the pods.

 

"Allure of the Seas has been experiencing unanticipated bearing wear in one of its three propulsion motors. ...

Thrust bearing problems seem to be endemic to pods; QM2 has had a few.

[DDBINK1]

I have been a guest on Oasis of the Seas x 2. I enjoyed each cruise. The ships are soo big you do not really feel there are 6000 and more people on them. At Dinner the Main Dining que is similar on the first night on QM2 or QV for the Britannia Restaurant. The special restaurants are nice but I felt way to expensive. The diving show was great theater in the open of the aft deck. The Ice show was interesting but really for kids in my opinion. The cabins were similar in size to QM2 and QV. The staff seemed well trained but very very busy without time to chit chat like on QM2 or QV. The bars are like neighborhood bars to hang in and the open decks are expansive to the point you can always find a lounger to sit in the sun and read a book. Lots to do daily, lots of things to see and do like zip lines across the center of the ship and walls to climb. The tenders were fast on tender days and getting on and off is very well done and fast. Especially for that many people. I fear a disaster on one of these would result in major loss of life if the thing were to sink like Costa experienced. There are even more walkers, wheel chairs, scooter chairs and elderly along with large multi generational family units on board.

It is a different experience from the Elegance of Cunard but if you like it it is good.

[Austcruiser84]

Each cruise line appeals to a different demographic. Some do cross over.

 

How I see cruising:

 

Seabourn - well heeled lovers, those who like intimacy, and those looking for access to small ports.

 

Cunard - those looking for a bit of yester-year and who enjoy ocean travel.

 

Princess - a bit of class without any pretentiousness.

 

P&O - older, predominantly British traveller

 

Royal Carribean - Family, theme park style cruising. Lots of action.

 

Carnival - families again, but cheaper than RC.

 

P&O Australia - suburban families and drunk bogans (kind of like rednecks for you Americans).

 

While I'm not against mainstream cruising (bar P&O Australia) I prefer being around adults than families with children and teens.

 

I find that with Cunard and Princess I get a less frantic on board experience and a balance of active and passive shore excursions. The food is a good mix between restaurant dining and every day food.

 

Im not a huge fan of Oasis and Allure (pun kind of intended) as I feel they are too big. However, what does put me off them is their itineraries are very limited and they generally only do short cruises of 5-7 days.

 

If I cruise, I like to have at least two weeks. Speaking of which, it's just over 2 weeks til sailing time :)

[Salacia]

Thrust bearing problems seem to be endemic to pods; QM2 has had a few.

 

Yes, I remember reading about the lawsuit CCL brought against Rolls Royce. Royal Caribbean also brought suit against Rolls Royce for the similar claims regarding faults with the pods.

 

My understanding is that Allure of the Seas has a differently engineered system. I have no idea what that means regarding the satisfactory performance of pods, but I agree that there does appear to be some long standing problems since their inception. New, larger ships equipped with pods will certainly reveal any further design flaws, such as what Allure of the Seas has been experiencing.

Edited November 23, 2013 by Salacia

[Salacia]

You could get to at least see Oasis in Southampton next year on 15th October.

 

http://blogs.mirror.co.uk/captain-greybeard/2013/03/a-uk-first-for-record-breaker-.html

 

And Anthem of the Seas "will be based in the UK when it debuts in 2015".http://www.usatoday.com/story/cruiselog/2013/11/21/royal-caribbean-new-ship/3665923/

[laktex]

Seatrade Insider quotes the present order book total for new cruise ships to 2017 to be a Total Order Book Value of $15,112,800,000.00. ($15 Billion!) so it is understandable that the lines will have to come up with imaginative ways to captivate a new generation of cruisers.

 

I would hope that this will ensure a market segregation to allow the Cruise lines to maintain their individuality rather than all trying to compete for the same market. Carnival, with their 7 "separate" cruise lines are probably best placed to do this - but marketing and market forces are strange animals - personally, I just hope Cunard will not lose it's identity.

[Ray66]

And Anthem of the Seas "will be based in the UK when it debuts in 2015".http://www.usatoday.com/story/cruiselog/2013/11/21/royal-caribbean-new-ship/3665923/

 

Yes, I read that on CC the other day

 

http://www.cruisecritic.co.uk/news/news.cfm?ID=5624#

 

Anthem (4,180 pax) is going to replace Independence of the Seas (3,634 pax).

Look at the photos here :eek:

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/cruises/10467460/Launch-plans-for-Anthem-of-the-Seas-unveiled.html

 

The line that brought rock climbing walls, FlowRider surf simulators and zip wires to the mainstream holiday market will now offer skydiving and bumper cars at sea as well as North Star, a viewing pod that extends 300 feet above the water via a mechanical arm.

[glojo]

Yes, I read that on CC the other day

 

http://www.cruisecritic.co.uk/news/news.cfm?ID=5624#

 

Anthem (4,180 pax) is going to replace Independence of the Seas (3,634 pax).

Look at the photos here :eek:

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/cruises/10467460/Launch-plans-for-Anthem-of-the-Seas-unveiled.html

 

The line that brought rock climbing walls, FlowRider surf simulators and zip wires to the mainstream holiday market will now offer skydiving and bumper cars at sea as well as North Star, a viewing pod that extends 300 feet above the water via a mechanical arm.

Hopefully these new ships will encourage new folks to try out this cruise experience as opposed to taking them away from other cruise lines:eek:

 

I say this solely because I believe we are seeing everyone competing to fill their ships from a finite number of folks that want a cruise ship style holiday. With new ships joining this competitive market offering more and more places and by that I mean an extra 20,000 places per year.... Does something eventually have to give?

 

If these ships encourage now posteriors on seats then that might be a good thing for the whole industry?? I say this in the hope that whilst these folks have a young family, they might opt to take their holidays on ships that cater so well for their children. Then when these children eventually leave the nest... These same people might opt to try a 'different' :o;) style of cruising.

 

No harm in wishful thinking :)

[glojo]

Yes, I remember reading about the lawsuit CCL brought against Rolls Royce. Royal Caribbean also brought suit against Rolls Royce for the similar claims regarding faults with the pods.

 

My understanding is that Allure of the Seas has a differently engineered system. I have no idea what that means regarding the satisfactory performance of pods, but I agree that there does appear to be some long standing problems since their inception. New, larger ships equipped with pods will certainly reveal any further design flaws, such as what Allure of the Seas has been experiencing.

Hi Salacia,

I think I answered that query at post #13

 

It is unfair to blame the new system that this company is using regarding the bearings, but when they boast about a new design of bearing and it develops problems so shortly after going into service it does beg the question

 

ABB Marine’s Azipod XO pod, assembled in Helsinki, offers a near-10% improvement in fuel efficiency and new bearing and seal arrangements allow servicing and replacement to be made from inside the pod.

Edited November 23, 2013 by glojo

[bazzaw]

 

P&O Australia - suburban families and drunk bogans (kind of like rednecks for you Americans).

 

 

What utter racist,elitist, and generalising nonsense - and from a fellow Aussie too!! :rolleyes:

 

We have sailed on P&O UK, P&O AUS, all Cunard ships, and 2 RCI ships. They all have their good and bad points. We thoroughly enjoyed 3 months World Cruise with P&O UK - even though it was mostly "older Poms" :), also two cruises on RCI ships (with their rock climbing walls,etc) and 4 cruises on the Cunard ships (with their pretensions of past grandeur).

 

Our most recent cruise was on the first major cruiseship to have visited the Milne Bay area of PNG (a very famous place for Aussies) and the Trobriand Islands -- it was a mind blowing cruise , almost overwhelming!! http://pacificdawntopng.blogspot.com.au/ But I have to admit that it was full of Aussies -- perhaps that would not suit you at all. I believe that you are probably much better suited to sailing with Cunard!:mad:

 

Barry

Edited November 23, 2013 by bazzaw

[bazzaw]

Hopefully these new ships will encourage new folks to try out this cruise experience as opposed to taking them away from other cruise lines:eek:

 

I say this solely because I believe we are seeing everyone competing to fill their ships from a finite number of folks that want a cruise ship style holiday. With new ships joining this competitive market offering more and more places and by that I mean an extra 20,000 places per year.... Does something eventually have to give?

 

If these ships encourage now posteriors on seats then that might be a good thing for the whole industry?? I say this in the hope that whilst these folks have a young family, they might opt to take their holidays on ships that cater so well for their children. Then when these children eventually leave the nest... These same people might opt to try a 'different' :o;) style of cruising.

 

No harm in wishful thinking :)

 

Glojo

 

I don't know about the other western nations - but here in Australia, the first of the "baby boomers" have been released from captivity and there are about 4 million more of them to be released over the next 20 years ( personally I think that the definition of boomers - which I think goes out until about a birth date of 1964 is too broad). Many/most of these people are at the end of their working lives, are quite comfortable and are intending to "see the World" and SKI (spend their kid's inheritance!)

 

I don't think that an additional global cruising capacity of an extra 20,000 seats will be enough!:)

 

Barry