Is Carnival Corp losing it's mojo?

[TennesseeTater]

Again, you are totally wrong. The Triumph incident is just a memory. HAL and Princess bookings are hurting. You want to attribute that to the Triumph? Really? Then how can you explain the increased demand for RCL and NCL berths?

C'mon, explain away- bookings are up for NCL and RCL, are down for all the mainstream Carnival lines. If people were afraid to cruise, they would not just bypass all Carnival lines and sail RCL and NCL.

It is obvious; the word is out- Carnival is the line of the cutbacks.

 

The word is out? I haven't heard anything. As far as I know Carnival still sails full every week.

[cjknox]

Again, you are totally wrong. The Triumph incident is just a memory. HAL and Princess bookings are hurting. You want to attribute that to the Triumph? Really? Then how can you explain the increased demand for RCL and NCL berths?

C'mon, explain away- bookings are up for NCL and RCL, are down for all the mainstream Carnival lines. If people were afraid to cruise, they would not just bypass all Carnival lines and sail RCL and NCL.

It is obvious; the word is out- Carnival is the line of the cutbacks.

 

Just a memory? Really David? :confused: No.

 

Up until the highly publicized Carnival Triumph incident, Carnival Cruise Lines and to a certain extent Carnival Corporation was barely beginning to recover in terms of bookings and overall profitability from the Concordia incident which did considerable damage to Carnival Corporation as a whole. When Triumph went down, the process started all over again, and hindered recovery even more.

 

If you paid any attention whatsoever to the financials for Carnival Corp. and compare the quarters before and after both Concordia and Triumph, the reasons are clear and the results are even more clearer. Comon David Clark, even you can do the math! (I hope). ;)

 

Because of these incidents ALL cruise lines took hits from the fallout of the aforementioned events. Some were less affected and rebounded much faster; RCL and NCL are prime examples. However because both highly publicized events both happened on Carnival Corporation owned vessels the fallout was/has/and continues to be worse for Carnival Corporation brands. Not only for HAL and Princess either. Not to mention the media on numerous occasions referring to the Costa Concordia as the Carnival Concordia didn't help the situation at all; especially when the Triumph incident ensued which was accompanied by its own misrepresentations, issues, and inaccuracies as well.

 

As I have said in the past and will yet say once more. We Cruise Critic members are the vast minority in the cruise world. So don't think that the views expressed on this message board are representative of the almost 20 million people who cruise every year. While some express discontent with some of the changes that Carnival Cruise Lines and Carnival Corp. has made over the years, that by no means indicates that's how the rest of the 20 million cruisers feel who choose to cruise annually.

[Cruizinman]

The word is out? :eek:I haven't heard anything :D. As far as I know Carnival still sails full every week.

No they don't .

[TennesseeTater]

No they don't .

 

They do too!

 

Kidding, I'm not sure of their 2013 numbers compared to their 2012. What source are you using?

Edited December 6, 2013 by TennesseeTater

[skyeman27]

So, it is the pollsters fault that they never do it in a good light. Please explain to me what you mean by "never do it in a good light". Do you think that all polls and reviews by cruising web sites are biased against Carnival?

No answer from CarnivalBreeze319??? Must be a difficult question for you to not answer...

[CarnivalBreeze319]

No answer from CarnivalBreeze319??? Must be a difficult question for you to not answer...

 

I can't answer the question

[kelmac]

why is this being run on the Carnival Site?

 

if We did not like Carnival..Princess or such......we would not be here.

 

I love Princess. Love it. I love the food. I love the staff. I love the activities. I love the vibe of the ship. I love the Cruise Directors.

 

I admit the production shows are bad. And they show them forever. Other than that....I love it.

I have sailed Celebrity. The food was not good. Except the cookies. They were fantastic. entertainment was good. activities great. But Not Princess.

 

I was totally happy with Carnival until they started selling..and selling it cheaply..Platinum perks. FTTF. cheap and non classy.

 

HAL..I have been on the Westerdam.............twice. it was like a private cruise. I liked it. A lot. enjoyed the Fresh flowers too. The food was the best of any cruise ship I have ever been on. Totally.

 

Sorry Amber,

 

I'm the OP and I posted this tread on the Celebrity boards. For some reason, perhaps because it had the word Carnival in the title, the moderators moved it over here. I have nothing bad to say about Carnival, as I have never cruised their ships.

This thread was focused on Carnival Corporation, that owns HAL, Princess and Cunard -- all of these cruise lines I have cruised with, I felt they had lost me with cuts to their product. Royal Caribbean, which owns Celebrity and Azamara, seemed to be on an upswing and their products seemed to be getting better with every cruise.

 

Enjoy!

Kel:)

[cjknox]

Sorry Amber,

 

I'm the OP and I posted this tread on the Celebrity boards. For some reason, perhaps because it had the word Carnival in the title, the moderators moved it over here. I have nothing bad to say about Carnival, as I have never cruised their ships.

This thread was focused on Carnival Corporation, that owns HAL, Princess and Cunard -- all of these cruise lines I have cruised with, I felt they had lost me with cuts to their product. Royal Caribbean, which owns Celebrity and Azamara, seemed to be on an upswing and their products seemed to be getting better with every cruise.

 

Enjoy!

Kel:)

 

Hey Kel,

 

Not trying to be nit picky or anything but why post this on the Celebrity forum and not on the HAL Cunard or Princess forums? Since they are Carnival brands?

[kelmac]

Hey Kel,

 

Not trying to be nit picky or anything but why post this on the Celebrity forum and not on the HAL Cunard or Princess forums? Since they are Carnival brands?

 

cj,

 

Valid question.:) I placed it on the Celebrity board because many of us alternate between these four cruise lines (Celebrity, Princess, Holland America, Cunard).

These four compete for many of the same cruisers.

 

Kel

[MicCanberra]

cj,

 

Valid question.:) I placed it on the Celebrity board because many of us alternate between these four cruise lines (Celebrity, Princess, Holland America, Cunard).

These four compete for many of the same cruisers.

 

Kel

 

They need an all cruise line board, for subjects that concern all of them (or none in particular).:D

[DarthGrady]

Between 2003 and 2011 my wife and I use to alternate between Celebrity and Holland America. HAL has lost it's luster with us for a variety of reasons, which includes less service people, uninspired cuisine, old school decor, out-dated smoking policy, weak return customer program…,

 

This past summer we did a TA on Cunard's Queen Mary 2 (second time on the QM2) -- it felt like Holland America on Steroids. The MDR food was good, the buffet was awful, and Todd English is so so. Some great stuff, some not so great.

 

Yesterday we disembarked from the Golden Princess. Very tired ship, mediocre food, crowded everywhere, large cabin (mini-suite) that was brown, with brown, with a touch of ugly.

 

I don't want to "pile on" with Carnival's issues (Costa Concordia…,), but it seems like the products of Royal Caribbean (Celebrity, Royal Caribbean, Azamara) are head and shoulders better than anything Carnival Corp is offering? Oceania is great, but pretty expensive. We have no experience with the Ultra Luxury lines, and to be fair, we haven't tried NCL in many years.

 

We love the itineraries of HAL, Princess, and Cunard, but it will be a few years before we embark one of their ships. We have four cruises coming up -- three on Celebrity and one of RCI.

 

I'm not anti-Carnival, and I use to own their stock -- anyone else sense a change?

 

Enjoy!

Kel:)

 

Unfortunately it seems that lowered quality has been a complaint accross the board for many of the Carnival Corp owned cruise lines. They make cuts to keep fares low to fill the ships. It's been their model for a long time now.

 

I've seen it on CCL. Some things I miss, others not so much. I never cared that the midnight buffet was eliminated, but I miss the sushi and the cocktail parties. The only thing that really offended me was the promise of a better past guest program, followed up with the roll out of a program that offers less benefits (specifically for Platinum members).

 

So we cruise with RCI more nowadays. Sure their ships are amazing, but it's their past guest program really earns our repeat business. IMO Crown and Anchor does a much better job at making repeat guests feel wanted and welcome. The nightly events are a great way to meet other frequent cruisers, make new friends and build camaraderie.

 

Folks will say that you pay for those better perks with higher RCI fares, but that hasn't really been the case for us. We still get good deals with RCI. We watch fares and cruise mostly off season, just as we did when we primarily cruised CCL.

Edited December 6, 2013 by DarthGrady
clarification

[kelmac]

Unfortunately it seems that lowered quality has been a complaint accross the board for many of the Carnival Corp owned cruise lines. They make cuts to keep fares low to fill the ships. It's been their model for a long time now.

 

I've seen it on CCL. Some things I miss, others not so much. I never cared that the midnight buffet was eliminated, but I miss the sushi and the cocktail parties. The only thing that really offended me was the promise of a better past guest program, followed up with the roll out of a program that offers less benefits (specifically for Platinum members).

 

So we cruise with RCI more nowadays. Sure their ships are amazing, but it's their past guest program really earns our repeat business. IMO Crown and Anchor does a much better job at making repeat guests feel wanted and welcome. The nightly events are a great way to meet other frequent cruisers, make new friends and build camaraderie.

 

Folks will say that you pay for those better perks with higher RCI fares, but that hasn't really been the case for us. We still get good deals with RCI. We watch fares and cruise mostly off season, just as we did when we primarily cruised CCL.

 

Great points Grady!

 

We are Elite Plus with Celebrity and recently returned to Royal Caribbean to check out the Allure. Everything about that cruise was a huge positive surprise, and what an improvement in the food since our last Royal cruise.

Visiting the Diamond Lounge was fun (Celebrity does a very similar happy hour). Celebrity has always made us feel special, with gifts, great service, and eleven invites to the Captain's table. By the way, your Diamond+ status, gives you Elite status on Celebrity.

HAL, Princess, and even Cunard just seemed to be going through the motions, and even though we make the best of every cruise, it's getting difficult to leave Celebrity, RCI or Azamara. Itineraries are usually better with Princess, HAL, and Cunard, but that's not enough these days.

 

Enjoy!

Kel:)

[bflohr]

Unfortunately it seems that lowered quality has been a complaint accross the board for many of the Carnival Corp owned cruise lines. They make cuts to keep fares low to fill the ships. It's been their model for a long time now.

 

I've seen it on CCL. Some things I miss, others not so much. I never cared that the midnight buffet was eliminated, but I miss the sushi and the cocktail parties. The only thing that really offended me was the promise of a better past guest program, followed up with the roll out of a program that offers less benefits (specifically for Platinum members).

 

So we cruise with RCI more nowadays. Sure their ships are amazing, but it's their past guest program really earns our repeat business. IMO Crown and Anchor does a much better job at making repeat guests feel wanted and welcome. The nightly events are a great way to meet other frequent cruisers, make new friends and build camaraderie.

 

Folks will say that you pay for those better perks with higher RCI fares, but that hasn't really been the case for us. We still get good deals with RCI. We watch fares and cruise mostly off season, just as we did when we primarily cruised CCL.

 

Carnival needs to come up with a better long term plan then lower cabin prices to fill the ship.

 

I'm on the west coast, so Carnival makes sense to me for a no fly vacation. But, I would like to see more options out here.

 

Carnival is losing market share with the competitor's mega ships and recent safety issues. They need a game changer. Something innovative.

Edited December 6, 2013 by bflohr

[cjknox]

Carnival needs to come up with a better long term plan then lower cabin prices to fill the ship.

 

I'm on the west coast, so Carnival makes sense to me for a no fly vacation. But, I would like to see more options out here.

 

Carnival is losing market share with the competitor's mega ships and recent safety issues. They need a game changer. Something innovative.

 

The main problem with the west coast is the fact that there is such a limited amount of ports to reach in a 7 day time frame. Therefore the west coast Mexican cruise market doesn't do so well.

[Dave85]

Unfortunately it seems that lowered quality has been a complaint accross the board for many of the Carnival Corp owned cruise lines. They make cuts to keep fares low to fill the ships. It's been their model for a long time now.

 

I've seen it on CCL. Some things I miss, others not so much. I never cared that the midnight buffet was eliminated, but I miss the sushi and the cocktail parties. The only thing that really offended me was the promise of a better past guest program, followed up with the roll out of a program that offers less benefits (specifically for Platinum members).

 

So we cruise with RCI more nowadays. Sure their ships are amazing, but it's their past guest program really earns our repeat business. IMO Crown and Anchor does a much better job at making repeat guests feel wanted and welcome. The nightly events are a great way to meet other frequent cruisers, make new friends and build camaraderie.

 

Folks will say that you pay for those better perks with higher RCI fares, but that hasn't really been the case for us. We still get good deals with RCI. We watch fares and cruise mostly off season, just as we did when we primarily cruised CCL.

 

Couldn't agree more. We feel very valued with the Crown and Anchor benefits we receive and its one of several major things that set RCI above Carnival for us these days. I'd say that Carnival missed an I opportunity when they redesigned their program, but I think they did exactly what they meant to do... Repeat cruisers just are not as important to their business mode as they are to RCIs... Just follow the money invested in the respective past guest programs and you have your answer.

[TwinPrincessMermaids]

I agree with many of these posts. Especially why CCL cheerleaders always insist that there is something wrong with the way the survey is conducted as to why CCL would rank at the bottom.

 

JD Powers survey ranked it just right for me and they are pretty reputable. While I don't mind RCI (the number 2) they haven't stolen me away from Carnival yet. Number 1 definitely has, no question. And it put HAL, X and PCL in the middle with NCL almost at bottom and CCL dead last. So maybe if there was absolutely no way I could do a DCL, RCI might be a backup. I have no intention of going on anymore CCL corp owned cruise lines in the foreseeable future.

 

Unfortunately based on my declining CCL experiences 2012 and 2013 but I have learned that not all companies operate that way and since the majority of my itineraries (minus Hawaii) have been repeats across all 3 of my cruise lines (Castaway the exception), to me, it is more than just itinerary but the actual cruise experience as well. So I agree that with the posters that said CCL corp cruises are in some cases moving along. In our case, they lost the 18 of us that are on DCL next year.

 

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Forums mobile app

[Cruising89143]

Couldn't agree more. We feel very valued with the Crown and Anchor benefits we receive and its one of several major things that set RCI above Carnival for us these days. I'd say that Carnival missed an I opportunity when they redesigned their program, but I think they did exactly what they meant to do... Repeat cruisers just are not as important to their business mode as they are to RCIs... Just follow the money invested in the respective past guest programs and you have your answer.

 

Another plus is the crossover of benefits between RCI, Celebrity and Azamara. We now can switch back and forth with no loss of benefits. After 16 cruises with Carnival I left them in 2004 to try another line because I felt that Carnival could care less if we cruised with them again. At that time they had "zero" past guest benefits and we noticed a downturn in the onboard experience. Also after what I saw and experienced with the competition I haven't gone back and to date Carnival hasn't built a ship that interests me nor have they added any onboard amenities that would entice me to book again. I really liked the Spirit class but detested the Destiny/Conquest class. Fantasy class was good for their time. My favorite Carnival ship was the Celebration. Had one of my best cruises on that ship in 1993.

 

RCI is always looking for feedback as to what can they do better. They still offer the passenger comments form onboard plus they send out surveys asking for feedback. Received one today asking about booking future cruises onboard. If we do it and why? They also asked what we would like to see on their ships that isn't already there. You have to keep in touch with the people that keep your business going and growing. I think Carnival has now realized this as we have seen with the recent Bob Dickinson make up session with the TA community. This is a good start.

 

Carnival fits the bill for many people but lately they have struggled to get pricing back up. All of the recent and upcoming changes are to try and turn this around. This was stated by Cahill in a recent press release on Seatrader. Will it work? Time will tell. Hopefully the Vista will be a new unique design and not another modified version of an existing design that's been around since the Destiny plan was conceived in the early to mid 90's.

Edited December 7, 2013 by cruisingator2

[CarnivalBreeze319]

Another plus is the crossover of benefits between RCI, Celebrity and Azamara. We now can switch back and forth with no loss of benefits. After 16 cruises with Carnival I left them in 2004 to try another line because I felt that Carnival could care less if we cruised with them again. At that time they had "zero" past guest benefits and we noticed a downturn in the onboard experience. Also after what I saw and experienced with the competition I haven't gone back and to date Carnival hasn't built a ship that interests me nor have they added any onboard amenities that would entice me to book again. I really liked the Spirit class but detested the Destiny/Conquest class. Fantasy class was good for their time. My favorite Carnival ship was the Celebration. Had one of my best cruises on that ship in 1993.

 

RCI is always looking for feedback as to what can they do better. They still offer the passenger comments form onboard plus they send out surveys asking for feedback. Received one today asking about booking future cruises onboard. If we do it and why? They also asked what we would like to see on their ships that isn't already there. You have to keep in touch with the people that keep your business going and growing. I think Carnival has now realized this as we have seen with the recent Bob Dickinson make up session with the TA community. This is a good start.

 

Carnival fits the bill for many people but lately they have struggled to get pricing back up. All of the recent and upcoming changes are to try and turn this around. This was stated by Cahill in a recent press release on Seatrader. Will it work? Time will tell. Hopefully the Vista will be a new unique design and not another modified version of an existing design that's been around since the Destiny plan was conceived in the early to mid 90's.

 

The vista will be a brand new design

[Lace]

The vista will be a brand new design

 

And until they have a factual reveal, it's assumed it's same ole same ole. The only class they have ever had that was different was the Spirit class, only made 4 under the Carnival moniker, and shipped half down under.

 

Meanwhile, it's a Carnival favorite. Go figure.

[Tapi]

The only class they have ever had that was different was the Spirit class, only made 4 under the Carnival moniker, and shipped half down under.

 

Meanwhile, it's a Carnival favorite. Go figure.

 

Not surprising. :)

 

The Spirit platform was not conceived purely for Carnival Cruise Lines. Carnival Corporation created the design as a shared platform between Carnival (Spirit class) Costa (Atlantica Class), Holland America (Vista and Signature class), and Cunard (Queen Elizabeth and Queen Victoria).

 

It was intended to be longer, sleeker, faster, and able to fit through the Panama Canal in order to travel all over the world and cover longer distances in more style. The result is a ship with a better design than other Carnival ships, with better space to passenger ratio, and with the largest percentage of balconies of the entire Carnival fleet. The platform remains a favorite among all cruise lines that use it.

 

So probably the reason why people love the Spirit class is because it wasn't intended to be purely a Carnival concept, but a completely different design that could be used among the Corp's other, "worldlier" cruise lines.

 

With that said, if the Vista is a concept specific for Carnival, IMHO I expect it to be an extension of the Destiny, Triumph, Conquest and Dream classes. Even if it's a completely new design, I feel like it will still be a high density ship with limited innovations, not some radical new concept along the lines of other cruise line's newbuilds. Time will tell...:o

Edited December 7, 2013 by Tapi

[crosscruiser]

after reading this post I had to throw my opinion in. We have never cruised before but...we spent a great deal of time researching all the main stream cruise lines before we booked one and, we chose Carnival primarily because they did not have as large a difference between passenger "classes". The loyalty rewards on RCL and others looked like we would have been 2nd class passengers whereas on CCL we would be offered pretty much the same as everyone. It just seemed more approachable. I know loyalty should be rewarded but as first-timers we did not want to feel like our vacation wouldn't be all it could be until we had become "Platinum" of "Gold" or whatever. So as far as attracting NEW customers I think CCL is doing something right...I'll let you know after!

[Sargent_Schultz]

after reading this post I had to throw my opinion in. We have never cruised before but...we spent a great deal of time researching all the main stream cruise lines before we booked one and, we chose Carnival primarily because they did not have as large a difference between passenger "classes". The loyalty rewards on RCL and others looked like we would have been 2nd class passengers whereas on CCL we would be offered pretty much the same as everyone. It just seemed more approachable. I know loyalty should be rewarded but as first-timers we did not want to feel like our vacation wouldn't be all it could be until we had become "Platinum" of "Gold" or whatever. So as far as attracting NEW customers I think CCL is doing something right...I'll let you know after!

 

Carnival is very much NOT an elitist line.

 

Some people seem to need cruise ship status and are willing to pay extra for it.

[Big_G]

after reading this post I had to throw my opinion in. We have never cruised before but...we spent a great deal of time researching all the main stream cruise lines before we booked one and, we chose Carnival primarily because they did not have as large a difference between passenger "classes". The loyalty rewards on RCL and others looked like we would have been 2nd class passengers whereas on CCL we would be offered pretty much the same as everyone. It just seemed more approachable. I know loyalty should be rewarded but as first-timers we did not want to feel like our vacation wouldn't be all it could be until we had become "Platinum" of "Gold" or whatever. So as far as attracting NEW customers I think CCL is doing something right...I'll let you know after!

 

Really? I thought the real reason was:

I did look at at RCI and several others. The main reason I didn't go with RCI was departure port (for this cruise) but we shall see.

[MicCanberra]

Really? I thought the real reason was:

 

SNAP.:eek:

[travelplus]

When I was reading through Cruise Critic before my first cruise that I took with my Father in 2012 I gathered that Royal Caribbean would suit our needs. I read about Holland America, Princess, Carnival and Norwegian.

 

In 2012 I found a special for a Trans Atlantic Cruise from San Juan-Barcelona on Royal Caribbean's Serenade Of The Seas. I was wowed when I first boarded and really saw how Royal Caribbean paid attention to even the smallest detail. We booked an Oceanview Cabin and were happy with the size and having a sitting area with a couch.

 

The food was awesome and excellent service all around.

 

Then this past January I was online looking for another Trans Atlantic Cruise. I was about to try another cruiseline but then found Royal was doing their Navigator Of The Seas from New Orleans-Rome. I had Southwest Airline vouchers to use from volunteering for a flight so that took care of that. Plus I had miles from United to fly back from Rome for myself and my Father went to visit family abroad.

 

I loved the Royal Promenade and the Cafe Promenade.

 

Then in August I had to look yet again for another Trans Atlantic Cruise and found two options. One was Royal Caribbean from New Orleans-Barcelona, Fort Lauderdale-Rome and Santos Brazil(Sao Paulo)-Barcelona.

 

I went with the Splendour Of The Seas from Santos-Barcelona because I wanted to see how Royal would revitalize one of their older ships. Also the itinerary was perfect and I found airfare from San Francisco to Sao Paulo for $474 and also used United miles on Lufthansa back from Barcelona.

 

I'm not sure that I want to try Carnival but would be willing to do so but not on a mega party cruise during the holidays or spring break. Possibly a Late April Early May, Late August early September or Early October could work.

 

All in all I'm happy with Royal.