Caribbean Princess cruise cut short?

[marne001]

Ref the links posted by CARIBILL:

 

It always amazes me that out 4,000 plus people, passengers and crew, on that ship the TV talking heads found two that complained about being confined to their cabins while sick. They wanted to run around the ship spreading the illness to other passengers.

 

I am surprised that they did not start off demanding two free cruises and chocolate cake due to the confinement.:rolleyes:

 

They don't realize how lucky there were. They had a warm cabin, visits from the medical staff and meals brought to them.

 

Bob

The media will be at the pier talking to anyone who will accomm0date them; however, they are selective on which passenger is aired. For example, when the Triumph returned to the US, major media was there. Hundreds of exiting passengers were asked about their trip. The overwhelming majority told of how everyone did their best to not only get along, but make the best of the situation. I call these folks "cruise people". To me cruise people just know how to have fun, never at another's expense, are open, friendly, middle class folks, who work hard and enjoy a cruise each year. The minute I heard about the system difficulty on the Triumph (which I have sailed many times) I knew what the cruise people would be doing! Cruise people upon learning about the loss of certain services (operational toilets and hot meals in the MDR) they would take the sheets off their beds, grab their beverage and head to the open decks to make their forts. Then they would taken their beverages and go check out other cruise peoples' forts and make even more friends. There will always be the haters, you know these people. They frequently are bitter about whatever is the matter at hand. Further, they are envious of the rest of us as we can almost always find a way to see a silver lining when we are served lemons. I feel sorry for those people.

[dleighb]

Their dishonesty is what angers me most.

 

Agreed. They lied. Whether to avoid a panic or for some other reason. That is why we are so irritated.

[RDC1]

Agreed. They lied. Whether to avoid a panic or for some other reason. That is why we are so irritated.

 

Then apparently the Port of Galveston was part of the conspiracy and lied as well because this is their forecast as of Friday, let alone 3 days is advance. Patches of Dense fog can and will close the port depending upon the size and frequency. Princess had no reason to return early outside of the potential of fog and the additional consideration of NOVO. The return cost them money, it increased concerns about sailing out of Houston and increased the visibility of the Novo because they did return early. They paid out in cash and FCC the equivalent of 40% of the passenger fare. They had to pay for hotels and additional transportation (an amount that probably consumed a good portion of what remained of the cruise fare they received).

 

So for you conspiracy folks tell me exactly how Princess could have benefited by lying?

 

Min: 58 F

Max: 68 F

Day: Tonight

Condition: Dense Fog

Forecast: Patchy dense fog. Otherwise, mostly cloudy, with a low around 58. Breezy, with a south wind 15 to 20 mph.

Img Fog

Day: Saturday

Condition: Slight Chc Showers

Forecast: A 20 percent chance of showers after 7am. Areas of dense fog before 1pm. Otherwise, partly sunny, with a high near 68. South wind 10 to 15 mph, with gusts as high as 20 mph.

Img Rain

Min: 58 F

Max: 65 F

Day: Saturday Night

Condition: Slight Chc Showers

Forecast: A 20 percent chance of showers. Patchy dense fog after 7pm. Otherwise, mostly cloudy, with a low around 58. Southeast wind 10 to 15 mph.

 

Which just happens to be in agreement with the reason given by Princess for returning, The expectation of fog impacting port operation from Friday through Sunday.

Edited February 1, 2014 by RDC1

[dleighb]

These lost revenues "cost" the line more than your hotel room. The Line has little benefit of getting you off the ship early and missing a Port stop that makes them money.

 

In your apparent love of Princess and apparently your belief that they can do no wrong and would never lie to their passengers, you are not listening to me or any of the others who have verified that the reports were for patchy fog -- which is certainly no reason to return early.

 

I have no doubt this was an expensive cost to the cruise line. I am sure they lost money all the way around. My only thought is that they MIGHT have lost LESS money if they have an insurance that would cover losses due to certain weather related issues. At least then they would have recouped SOME but certainly not all of their outlay of payments.

 

They were going to return early. That is a given. Just tell us that it is because of the Norovirus and not because of fog that can in no way be reliably predicted three days in advance. They even said that if it weren't for the fog, they wouldn't have come in early. Bull crap on that. It had to be for the Norovirus and they must have some reason to stick so firmly to their claim that it was for potential fog. I figure there must be a monetary reason for THAT.

 

I don't even mind that they returned early. If they had said, "We have a large number of Norovirus cases on board and feel it is in the best interest of the passengers to return a day early," I would have been upset about missing the port and returning early, but I would not have this seething anger about being lied to.

[DebJ14]

The National Weather Service forecast did call for fog Saturday and Sunday mornings. The weatherman on Channel 2 in Houston gave a big spiel last night about the warm air (64 degrees) overrunning the cold water (52 degrees) and creating dense fog. All of the local Houston stations for ABC, NBC, CBS and Fox predicted dense fog for this morning and for Sunday as well. They also predicted rain today and I am still waiting for that to fall, which I doubt it will. Forecasts are often wrong, but what else do the cruise lines and the rest of us rely on if not the forecasts?

 

The Port Authority is quoted in today's Houston Chronicle as saying they did contact the ship to advise about the forecast for fog.

 

I was on the Dec 14 cruise that attempted to dock on Friday night to avoid a storm coming. Instead of docking on Friday night we ended up docking late on Saturday (around noon) because the ship and lots of others got caught up in dense fog just off the coast. Around 8pm while out at the anchorage they announced the Port of Houston was closed due to fog and that we would not dock until Saturday night and debark Sunday. They advised the passengers for the next cruise not to arrive until Sunday. There was a mad dash to change flights to Sunday and get hotels. Then, suddenly around 8:30am on Saturday the fog lifted as fast as it had enveloped the ship and the port reopened. Then another mad dash to change flights back to Saturday. We ended up docking around noon and we finally got off around 2:15pm. Mother nature is fickle as is the Port Authority of Houston.

 

Getting the ship back early so they have more time to disinfect without passengers aboard will hopefully prove to be a good thing. There were sick people on our cruise in December, but probably because it was seasickness - roughest cruise I have ever had in the Gulf of Mexico and I've done more than 30 from Houston/Galveston.

Edited February 1, 2014 by DebJ14

[BridgeMates]

I was on the cruise too. Can't we even consider the Captain was told of the possibility of dense fog and decided it would be a big problem with two ship loads of people being affected by any delays and then adding in the Noro factor, he had to make the best decision for everybody concerned?

We had a good time. Too bad it ended one day short, but I'm moving on and will start checking cruises on which I can use my 20% credit.:):)

[RDC1]

In your apparent love of Princess and apparently your belief that they can do no wrong and would never lie to their passengers, you are not listening to me or any of the others who have verified that the reports were for patchy fog -- which is certainly no reason to return early.

 

I have no doubt this was an expensive cost to the cruise line. I am sure they lost money all the way around. My only thought is that they MIGHT have lost LESS money if they have an insurance that would cover losses due to certain weather related issues. At least then they would have recouped SOME but certainly not all of their outlay of payments.

 

They were going to return early. That is a given. Just tell us that it is because of the Norovirus and not because of fog that can in no way be reliably predicted three days in advance. They even said that if it weren't for the fog, they wouldn't have come in early. Bull crap on that. It had to be for the Norovirus and they must have some reason to stick so firmly to their claim that it was for potential fog. I figure there must be a monetary reason for THAT.

 

I don't even mind that they returned early. If they had said, "We have a large number of Norovirus cases on board and feel it is in the best interest of the passengers to return a day early," I would have been upset about missing the port and returning early, but I would not have this seething anger about being lied to.

 

If you are so convinced that they lied then exactly how did it benefit them? Give me one good reason why it would.

 

Why did the Port of Galveston weather report also project dense fog for Friday night until 1pm Saturday with patches of dense fog again after 7 on Saturday. Something that would have prevented people from even starting to leave the ship until atleast 4-5pm on Saturday and would not have allowed the ship to leave until Sunday.

 

So far Princess has erred on the side of precaution, not only this time, but also earlier when fog was predicted and they told people not to show up until Sunday a month or so ago. Would you have preferred that they had taken the risk only to find that the forecast was correct and you could not have gotten off the ship until Saturday evening and having large numbers of people missing flights. It is far easier for the cruise line to come in early and provide hotel rooms then it is for people to reschedule flights.

 

Now from strictly a business point of view it would have been cheaper for Princess to ignore the forecast and return at the normal time because if they were fogged out of the port they would not owe anything for cutting the cruise short, they would only have to worry about those passengers that purchased their airfare through them, those that got their airfare on their own they are not responsible for.

[spingal]

i was on the cruise too. Can't we even consider the captain was told of the possibility of dense fog and decided it would be a big problem with two ship loads of people being affected by any delays and then adding in the noro factor, he had to make the best decision for everybody concerned?

We had a good time. Too bad it ended one day short, but i'm moving on and will start checking cruises on which i can use my 20% credit.:):)

 

Great attitude!!

Edited February 1, 2014 by spingal

[dleighb]

If you are so convinced that they lied then exactly how did it benefit them? Give me one good reason why it would.

 

I must be communicating very poorly because that is exactly what I am trying to figure out. I am trying to figure out why they said it was due to fog and not Norovirus. To me and many others on the ship and who immediately went to check the weather forecasts for the area, it was very obviously NOT because of potential fog and it WAS because of the Norovirus.

 

I am trying to figure out why they wouldn't just tell us that we were returning early due to the Norovirus. I ASSUME there must be some reason that has to do with money. Otherwise, why wouldn't they just say we were returning for the Norovirus? The cost to them for returning a day early had to be very high. I don't think they would have risked losing all that money on a "maybe". But even after the fact, they are sticking to the fog story, so I have to think that they must have something along the lines of an insurance in place that helps mitigate financial damages due to weather. Or maybe there is some sort of legal recourse where people could sue if it returned due to illness, so they can't officially state that as the case. I don't know. I am just brainstorming and trying to figure out why we're not getting the full truth because you will never convince me that the real reason we returning was because of fog. There is little logic in that.

[Rixnsd]

Agreed. They lied. Whether to avoid a panic or for some other reason. That is why we are so irritated.

 

Agreed. My father in law Keith, was the first interviewed CNN was great what he said. http://www.cnn.com/2014/01/31/travel/houston-princess-cruises-norovirus-illness/index.html?iref=allsearch

 

I thought Capts. were not supposed to lie to you? Ohh check the webcam on the ship right now. hehehehehe

[Loonbeam]

If this is validated, this ends the issue. If the ship was advised by the harbormaster about potential fog issues, then the decision was most likely made at that time,

 

As I have noted several times, Princess does not just get to decide to come back early. This is done in consultation with the harbormaster. The port usually agrees, admittedly, but they can also call the ship back early.

 

Has anyone been able to confirm when the ship hit outbreak level on Noro reports. If it was AFTER the change in course, than its a non-issue, the only difference was to increase speed to allow for the extra day of sanitation, the ship was already heading back. If BEFORE, could be either way.

 

 

The Port Authority is quoted in today's Houston Chronicle as saying they did contact the ship to advise about the forecast for fog.

 

[eclue]

If this is validated, this ends the issue. If the ship was advised by the harbormaster about potential fog issues, then the decision was most likely made at that time,

 

As I have noted several times, Princess does not just get to decide to come back early. This is done in consultation with the harbormaster. The port usually agrees, admittedly, but they can also call the ship back early.

 

Has anyone been able to confirm when the ship hit outbreak level on Noro reports. If it was AFTER the change in course, than its a non-issue, the only difference was to increase speed to allow for the extra day of sanitation, the ship was already heading back. If BEFORE, could be either way.

 

Amen....put it to rest...KHOU in Houston predicted dense sea for Sat. and Sunday.....what more do you people want other than to bash Princess and beat it to death.

I was also on the ship and they did an outstanding job...No lies!!

[RDC1]

I must be communicating very poorly because that is exactly what I am trying to figure out. I am trying to figure out why they said it was due to fog and not Norovirus. To me and many others on the ship and who immediately went to check the weather forecasts for the area, it was very obviously NOT because of potential fog and it WAS because of the Norovirus.

 

I am trying to figure out why they wouldn't just tell us that we were returning early due to the Norovirus. I ASSUME there must be some reason that has to do with money. Otherwise, why wouldn't they just say we were returning for the Norovirus? The cost to them for returning a day early had to be very high. I don't think they would have risked losing all that money on a "maybe". But even after the fact, they are sticking to the fog story, so I have to think that they must have something along the lines of an insurance in place that helps mitigate financial damages due to weather. Or maybe there is some sort of legal recourse where people could sue if it returned due to illness, so they can't officially state that as the case. I don't know. I am just brainstorming and trying to figure out why we're not getting the full truth because you will never convince me that the real reason we returning was because of fog. There is little logic in that.

 

 

You know it might be that they actually told the truth and made the best decision they could based upon the information they had, It would be consistent with what they did a month ago. It is consistent with the speed they used to come back, docking Thursday night. (no benefit as far as the illness is concerned then docking Friday morning, but a major benefit if they were expecting fog on Friday). They certainly burned a lot more fuel then if they cam back at more normal speed and docked Friday morning.

 

But as you say you will never be convinced that they were actually telling the truth about the fog.

 

As far as insurance and other risk management tools they would have been far far better off to ignore the fog warning return at normal time and then have the fog occur. No payouts for coming back late, no hotel costs, some need to reschedule those people that booked airfare through Princess, but most people that booked their air independently would be on their own and no cost to Princess. Some impact for late departure for the next cruise, but fat less then they paid out on this one.

 

I was on the Caribbean Princess on the Jan 11 cruise which left late. My view of the Captain based upon that experience is that he is very risk adverse and will err on the side of caution. We were on code red that entire cruise. We had 34 cases of Novo the entire cruise. I was told on that trip that they will go code red anytime the number of cases exceeds 8.

Edited February 1, 2014 by RDC1

[Loonbeam]

Something I also forgot to add (and we don't know). If the harbortmaster calls you back, its not usually an option. Tho I suspect Princess would have been clear on that case, so I still think it was a collaborative decision.

 

Amen....put it to rest...KHOU in Houston predicted dense sea for Sat. and Sunday.....what more do you people want other than to bash Princess and beat it to death.

I was also on the ship and they did an outstanding job...No lies!!

[iceleven]

Was it foggy there this morning? Looks clear there now (3pm EST)

[trvlgrl64]

I don't know why this thread has devolved into an argument over fog vs noro. There is no question that the NWS advised there could be dense fog. Without asking the captain directly it sounds like they were told that this could be an issue. Why try to turn this into something else? Most ships will not turn back and lose revenue and upset customers for a fairly small noro outbreak (less than 5%). This was nothing like the RCI ship that came back in with over 600 ill.

 

From the Houston Chronicle: The National Weather Service says it issued a warning about sea fog from Friday through Sunday. The Port of Houston says pilots halt all docking activity if fog is too dense.

 

It would be great if all posts going forward stopped stating that fog could not have been the issue when clearly it has been established that it could have been!

[warnerchilcott]

Amen....put it to rest...KHOU in Houston predicted dense sea for Sat. and Sunday.....what more do you people want other than to bash Princess and beat it to death.

I was also on the ship and they did an outstanding job...No lies!!

 

I was on the ship also. Had a wonderful time. I agree the Captain made the correct decision based on the information he was given. Those that think we we were lied to or that the decision to return early was some vast conspiracy to hide the norovirus are just plain wrong!

[Loonbeam]

Unfortunately conditions today are irrelevant. The issue is what the conditions were predicted when the decision was made to change course.

 

It's like predicting snowstorms. You go out and buy eggs, etc, then no snow and you yell at the weatherman because you wasted your money. But when you made the decision to buy the eggs you did so with the best information you had at that time.

 

 

Was it foggy there this morning? Looks clear there now (3pm EST)

[Debe7ing]

I was on the cruise too. Can't we even consider the Captain was told of the possibility of dense fog and decided it would be a big problem with two ship loads of people being affected by any delays and then adding in the Noro factor, he had to make the best decision for everybody concerned?

We had a good time. Too bad it ended one day short, but I'm moving on and will start checking cruises on which I can use my 20% credit.:):)

 

YOU are the kind of person I want to cruise with...when throws lemons at ya, you think of something WONDERFUL to make with them! ;)

 

PS...we got NO credit, not ONE RED CENT when Hurricane Ike washed our car away, forced us to buy "walk up airline rates" to get home from New Orleans once we docked (Conquest) AND kept us out to sea two extra days as refugees....but ya know what, we were SAFE, bellies FULL, roof over our heads, and stories for our grandkids!!!!

Edited February 1, 2014 by Debe7ing

[RocketMan275]

I must be communicating very poorly because that is exactly what I am trying to figure out. I am trying to figure out why they said it was due to fog and not Norovirus. To me and many others on the ship and who immediately went to check the weather forecasts for the area, it was very obviously NOT because of potential fog and it WAS because of the Norovirus.

 

I am trying to figure out why they wouldn't just tell us that we were returning early due to the Norovirus. I ASSUME there must be some reason that has to do with money. Otherwise, why wouldn't they just say we were returning for the Norovirus? The cost to them for returning a day early had to be very high. I don't think they would have risked losing all that money on a "maybe". But even after the fact, they are sticking to the fog story, so I have to think that they must have something along the lines of an insurance in place that helps mitigate financial damages due to weather. Or maybe there is some sort of legal recourse where people could sue if it returned due to illness, so they can't officially state that as the case. I don't know. I am just brainstorming and trying to figure out why we're not getting the full truth because you will never convince me that the real reason we returning was because of fog. There is little logic in that.

 

There is a large hole in your theory. Suppose they did have some kind of insurance covering their losses if they returned because of fog. In order to collect, they would have to provide a valid forecast to the insurance company to collect. You're claiming their was no such forecast. Without a forecast, they can't collect. OTOH, if Princess had a valid forecast then they could collect but your theory collapses.

 

In order to sue for illness, you would have to prove caused the illness, ie, who brought the noro onto the ship. It would be rather easy for the cruise line to prove that none of their employees were sick or those who were had been properly quarantined. That means the probable cause of the noro was that it was introduced by a passenger. You can't sue the cruise line for that. You'd have to find the passenger and sue him.

[Loonbeam]

Even then, you would have to prove the passenger came on board knowingly sick or knowingly broke quarantine to prove negligence or intent.

 

There is a large hole in your theory. Suppose they did have some kind of insurance covering their losses if they returned because of fog. In order to collect, they would have to provide a valid forecast to the insurance company to collect. You're claiming their was no such forecast. Without a forecast, they can't collect. OTOH, if Princess had a valid forecast then they could collect but your theory collapses.

 

In order to sue for illness, you would have to prove caused the illness, ie, who brought the noro onto the ship. It would be rather easy for the cruise line to prove that none of their employees were sick or those who were had been properly quarantined. That means the probable cause of the noro was that it was introduced by a passenger. You can't sue the cruise line for that. You'd have to find the passenger and sue him.

[iceleven]

"Predicted" weather, three days in advance, should not cause a cruise ship from sailing. Ships sail every week during hurricane season when there is a predictability of a hurricane. A "possibility of fog" would cripple every cruise line if that became cause for not setting sail or coming back into port. If fog is that much of an issue for ships in Houston, they should cease to use it as a cruise port.

 

If it wasn't due to the Noro virus then why kick all the passengers off the ship early, as they did. If it was just the fog, they could have stayed on the ship, if the passengers chose to do so. Of course there was the Noro virus, no one is saying it didn't exist but if it was not an issue with the decision to come in, then why not just let the people remain on the ship until Saturday morning.

Something still doesn't add up.

Edited February 1, 2014 by iceleven

[RDC1]

"Predicted" weather, three days in advance, should not cause a cruise ship from sailing. Ships sail every week during hurricane season when there is a predictability of a hurricane. A "possibility of fog" would cripple every cruise line if that became cause for not setting sail or coming back into port. If fog is that much of an issue for ships in Houston, they should cease to use it as a cruise port.

 

If it wasn't due to the Noro virus then why kick all the passengers off the ship early, as they did. If it was just the fog, they could have stayed on the ship, if the passengers chose to do so. Of course there was the Noro virus, no one is saying it didn't exist but if it was not an issue with the decision to come in, then why not just let the people remain on the ship until Saturday morning.

Something still doesn't add up.

 

My understanding is that the US Customs and Immigration are the ones that required the ship to clear customs and everyone to disembark Friday morning.

[Cozumel Parrot]

If you are so convinced that they lied then exactly how did it benefit them? Give me one good reason why it would.

 

..........

 

Now from strictly a business point of view it would have been cheaper for Princess to ignore the forecast and return at the normal time because if they were fogged out of the port they would not owe anything for cutting the cruise short, they would only have to worry about those passengers that purchased their airfare through them, those that got their airfare on their own they are not responsible for.

 

Perhaps this is one reason, from CBS News:

 

"Princess has notified the CDC (about Noro), who will board Friday to oversee an “extensive sanitation of the ship” prior to the next cruise departing February 1."

 

By getting in early and dumping those folks early Friday, Princess created time for the CDC to conduct this extensive sanitation on that day. Had they arrived on Saturday as scheduled, that CDC supervised inspection and sanitation would have surely prevented the ship from sailing with its new batch of passengers on Saturday.

Edited February 1, 2014 by Cozumel Parrot

[RDC1]

Here's one, from CBS News:

 

"Princess has notified the CDC (about Noro), who will board Friday to oversee an “extensive sanitation of the ship” prior to the next cruise departing February 1."

 

By getting in early and dumping those folks early Friday, Princess created time for the CDC to conduct this extensive sanitation on that day. Had they arrived on Saturday as scheduled, that CDC supervised inspection and sanitation would have surely prevented the ship from sailing with its new batch of passengers on Saturday.

 

The CDC was boarding on Friday, after Princess had already established that the ship was going to be back on Friday. It would make sense that CDC would board as soon as possible. Not necessarily that they were the driver of the return time. If they had come in on Saturday then CDC would have still boarded on Saturday to view the cleaning.

 

The one part that doesn't agree with CDC being the driver of the return time is the Thursday night return. If they were the driver, and not fog, then the ship could have docked at 7am on Friday, instead of Thursday night. The ship burned substantially more fuel getting back to port on Thursday evening, then the slower Friday morning time.

Edited February 1, 2014 by RDC1