Caribbean Princess cruise cut short?

[douglinc@msn.com]

It was only 5 confirmed cases of Noro and 160 something that went to the infirmary. I'm sure some of those had other things going on. I wonder how many go to the infirmary each cruise for something on average???

 

Also they had 15 foot waves and 50 mph winds. That would make getting out of Belize that night probably not possible as it is a narrow channel with lots of switch backs....

 

With 15 foot waves, some of the problems could have been from seasickness.

 

Doug

[DrSch]

It was only 5 confirmed cases of Noro and 160 something that went to the infirmary. I'm sure some of those had other things going on. I wonder how many go to the infirmary each cruise for something on average???

 

Also they had 15 foot waves and 50 mph winds. That would make getting out of Belize that night probably not possible as it is a narrow channel with lots of switch backs....

 

 

They had 5 confirmed cases, because Princess has rapid noro virus testing on board.. (RCC does not).

 

They don't do the testing on everyone.

 

The 15 foot waves and 50mph winds were after they left Belize, on the way back to Houston

[Rancher Dave]

The norovirus is designed to get you sick. If someone has it, and vomits, and you walk in the area shortly thereafter, there are droplets in the air around you. If they flush a toilet, and don't close the seat cover, it is in the air as well. If it wants to infect you, it will.

 

The hand cleaner on the ships doesn't kill it. You need to use either bleach, or a hydrogen peroxide wipe to clean your hands. Regular lysol won't kill it either, you need to use Lysol formula 3.

 

People who are blood type A or O tend to have a better chance of getting the virus. People with blood type B are supposed to have some natural defense to it. But I wouldn't risk daring it to infect you if you are blood type B.

 

Noro takes 2 - 3 days to hit. So the first 2 - 3 days of the cruise are the most dangerous. Be extra careful those days.

 

So for those with AB blood type it's a crap shoot?

[Underwatr]

The hand cleaner on the ships doesn't kill it. You need to use either bleach, or a hydrogen peroxide wipe to clean your hands. Regular lysol won't kill it either, you need to use Lysol formula 3.

See post #113 and read the labels. It might be hard to see the product label inside the automatic hand sprayers but if the attendants are using VF481 bottles it's a good be that the automatic dispensers have VF481 as well (the ship that had the bottle I took a photo of had VF481 in the automatic hand sprayers). Purell VF481 has been shown to be effective against Norovirus when used as directed.

 

http://www.handwashingforlife.com/files/Norovirus_Study.pdf

 

Despite the name, Clorox wipes (mentioned elsewhere in this thread) don't contain bleach and aren't effective against viruses. Again, read the labels.

[MauiLvrs]

Which is the stupidity of all those sanitizers: they don't get rid of anything, they merely smear it all over.

That would depend on which sanitizer and what concentration the ingredients are.

 

http://www.stopthestomachflu.com/Home/which-hand-sanitizers-kill-stomach-flu-viruses

 

"If soap and water aren't available, use an alcohol-based hand sanitizer. These alcohol-based products can quickly reduce the number of germs on hands in some situations, but they are not a substitute for washing with soap and water."

http://www.cdc.gov/Features/Norovirus/

One has to use the ones that are 90%

 

And then there is the Zylast™ line of antimicrobial products that independent testing has demonstrated that are 100 times more effective against Norovirus than alcohol-based hand sanitizers on the market.

 

And then chlorine wipes could be considered one of those sanitizers and they are rather effective.

 

Q: Why is WHO placing great emphasis on alcohol-based handrubs, at the point of care, and promoting them as the international standard for hand hygiene?

 

A: The availability of a product which renders the hands safe in terms of transmission of pathogens, and which can be used at the very place where pathogens are transmitted, has revolutionized hand hygiene improvement strategies in the modern age. For this reason, alcohol-based handrubs are considered to fulfil the highest standards of safety in relation to the prevention of cross-infection.

 

At the present time, the most efficacious, well-tolerated and well-researched product which can be placed ergonomically and safely at the point of care is an alcohol-based handrub. This system change facilitates the right action to occur at the right time and in the right way. It is unlikely, although not impossible, that running water, soap and towels will be installed right next to each patient’s bed, or be available at the point of care in an affordable and practical way. Soap and water handwashing is however less efficacious, more time-consuming, and less well tolerated by skin than alcohol-based handrubbing.

 

In countries where access to sinks is limited or non-existent, alcohol-based handrubs offer a method of preventing cross-infection which can be implemented in the short-term alongside a longer term strategy of sink installation.

 

Norovirus: the efficacy of alcohol-based handrubs against noroviruses varies with type and concentration of alcohol in the formulation, with a minimum 60% (v/v) concentration of ethanol required for good activity.

WHO experts recommend the use of alcohol-based handrubs during outbreaks of noroviral gastroenteritis.

 

http://www.who.int/gpsc/tools/faqs/system_change/en/

Edited January 31, 2014 by MauiLvrs

[san diego sue]

Our local High School reported over 100 kids with Noro this week were sent home from school. Probably higher figures for the kids that actually stayed home.

[DrSch]

See post #113 and read the labels. It might be hard to see the product label inside the automatic hand sprayers but if the attendants are using VF481 bottles it's a good be that the automatic dispensers have VF481 as well (the ship that had the bottle I took a photo of had VF481 in the automatic hand sprayers). Purell VF481 has been shown to be effective against Norovirus when used as directed.

 

http://www.handwashingforlife.com/files/Norovirus_Study.pdf

 

Despite the name, Clorox wipes (mentioned elsewhere in this thread) don't contain bleach and aren't effective against viruses. Again, read the labels.

 

Ill check and see what they have aboard in 2 weeks.. Either way, I am bringing my own supplies as I had listed earlier.

 

On the last cruise, I saw too many people not wash their hands after the bathroom, not use the gel when entering the buffet. Those people all deserve noro.

[DrSch]

So for those with AB blood type it's a crap shoot?

 

I'm not a Dr. but I play one on Cruise Critic.

 

My understanding is if you have the B protien A, AB, B, you are less likely to get the virus.

 

"There is some good evidence that people with B or AB blood types are immune to noroviruses. By "immune" I mean that the evidence actually points to them being asymptomatic (not having any, or very mild symptoms)" (which means we can be carriers)

 

http://microbiology.mtsinai.on.ca/bug/norwalk/nor-dis.shtml

[DrSch]

I can't find the post in here, but I swore I saw it earlier.. someone somewhere posted that Princess should use the time during the muster drill to educate everyone on how to avoid Noro, and suggest cleaning hands etc.

 

This is one of the best suggestions I have seen on the boards.

[caribill]

....and another preventative measure is to never eat anything with your hands.....especially when in the buffet.

 

We used to call this having manners..

 

Never heard of it being bad manners to eat a sandwich or a roll or popcorn using one's hands.

[DrSch]

Never heard of it being bad manners to eat a sandwich or a roll or popcorn using one's hands.

 

While in line at the buffet?

 

get your plate and sit down first.

[fud2468]

After doing a little more research since last posting, I find that noro tends to be more of a problem in the winter months and should not be an issue in May when we go to Alaska. We did not know this when booking but it's good to know now. So maybe an extra safeguard is to avoid winter cruising entirely.

I'm still looking for the reason why crew members are affected by noro only a quarter as often proportionally than are the passengers. What do they know or do that the passengers don't?

Ray Mac.

Edited January 31, 2014 by fud2468
corrected spelling

[gkny]

I just pray for everyone this upcoming cruise.

[RDC1]

Despite heavy sanitizing of the CB after the two previous sailings, my boyfriend and I still came home with Norovirus. After reading many comments about how effective the deep cleaning is and what precautions we should take, nothing prevented us from contacting this nasty virus. We constantly washed our hands, used Clorox wipes on everything and didn't leave our room without hand sanitizer. If we did everything right and still got sick, something is definitely wrong. I just spent the last three days more miserably sick than I can ever remember. Considering that these outbreaks continue to occur on multiple lines, new procedures need to be put in place to keep passengers healthy. This is ridiculous.

 

If you spent 3 days miserably sick it probably was not Noro. Noro normally is 24 hours of being miserable and pretty much normal after 48 hours.

[RDC1]

After doing a little more research since last posting, I find that noro tends to be more of a problem in the winter months and should not be an issue in May when we go to Alaska. We did not know this when booking but it's good to know now. So maybe an extra safeguard is to avoid winter cruising entirely.

I'm still looking for the reason why crew members are affected by noro only a quarter as often proportionally than are the passengers. What do they know or do that the passengers don't?

Ray Mac.

 

There is a reason why during the winter you see it crop up on multiple cruise ships and then pretty much vanish for most of the year. It matches periods of increase prevalence in the general population. The appearance on cruise ships during these times is more about statistics and probability then it is about cruise ship process and hygiene.

[caribill]

Local Houston TV station interviewed some passengers leaving the ship today.

 

Main complaints were from those who were ill who objected to being confined to their cabin while sick. http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/video?id=9414846

 

And below is a link to last night's report just after the ship arrived at Bayport.

 

http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/story?section=news/local&id=9413674

[IIcaptain]

Does travel cancellation insurance address "illness of the ship" as well as illness of the subscriber?

[Loonbeam]

Yes, if the trip is cut short by the line (for most policies) - compensation from the line may be considered in the claim (for example, if you lose 2 days of a 5 day $1000 trip ($00 in 'damages')i but the line gives everyone a $500 credit/obc, insurance may not pay depending on the policy.)

 

Does travel cancellation insurance address "illness of the ship" as well as illness of the subscriber?

[SoCalWave]

There are stories in the news today about 1) A school system in Japan with 1,000 confirmed cases of noro this week 2) A hospital, nursing home and nursery in Cornwall with a massive outbreak 3) A school in Kansas with 29 cases in one classroom. These are current news stories from the past week.

 

Noro is not just a cruise line problem. Anywhere that groups gather the disease is passed.

 

I would say that at least 80% of my local friends with kids have had it in the last three weeks. So far so good, my kids and I have avoided it, but we have also avoided the friends (kids are homeschooled, so we have been doing more stuff on our own during the outbreak). ;-)

[5:00_Somewhere]

I can't find the post in here, but I swore I saw it earlier.. someone somewhere posted that Princess should use the time during the muster drill to educate everyone on how to avoid Noro, and suggest cleaning hands etc.

 

This is one of the best suggestions I have seen on the boards.

 

On our 1/18 sailing, the Captain actually gave a several minute talk on just this subject (over the PA system) at the beginning of the Muster Drill, before the regular recording was played. I did think it was a good idea.

 

After doing a little more research since last posting, I find that noro tends to be more of a problem in the winter months and should not be an issue in May when we go to Alaska. We did not know this when booking but it's good to know now. So maybe an extra safeguard is to avoid winter cruising entirely.

I'm still looking for the reason why crew members are affected by noro only a quarter as often proportionally than are the passengers. What do they know or do that the passengers don't?

Ray Mac.

 

They wash their hands ... CONSTANTLY; and wear gloves and use hand sanitizer. I am always dismayed (and more than a little disgusted) how many people on ships (and on land) do not actually wash their hands after using the bathroom, for instance. In my experience, a surprising number of people do not make any effort, while many others merely swipe their hands under running water and call it good (I have always suspected these people probably only do this when others are in the bathroom.)

 

Local Houston TV station interviewed some passengers leaving the ship today.

 

Main complaints were from those who were ill who objected to being confined to their cabin while sick. http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/video?id=9414846

 

And below is a link to last night's report just after the ship arrived at Bayport.

 

http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/story?section=news/local&id=9413674

 

And, IMHO and in my experience, a surprising number of these people do NOT observe the quarantine, but feel free to go out and about the ship, especially up to the Horizon Court, which is probably the worst possible place for them to be in terms of the risk of spreading the illness.

Edited January 31, 2014 by 5:00_Somewhere

[Loonbeam]

And that attitude is why we get outbreaks...

 

 

 

Local Houston TV station interviewed some passengers leaving the ship today.

 

Main complaints were from those who were ill who objected to being confined to their cabin while sick. http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/video?id=9414846

 

And below is a link to last night's report just after the ship arrived at Bayport.

 

http://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/story?section=news/local&id=9413674

[4x4bob]

Ref the links posted by CARIBILL:

 

It always amazes me that out 4,000 plus people, passengers and crew, on that ship the TV talking heads found two that complained about being confined to their cabins while sick. They wanted to run around the ship spreading the illness to other passengers.

 

I am surprised that they did not start off demanding two free cruises and chocolate cake due to the confinement.:rolleyes:

 

They don't realize how lucky there were. They had a warm cabin, visits from the medical staff and meals brought to them.

 

Bob

[Rancher Dave]

Ref the links posted by CARIBILL:

 

It always amazes me that out 4,000 plus people, passengers and crew, on that ship the TV talking heads found two that complained about being confined to their cabins while sick. They wanted to run around the ship spreading the illness to other passengers.

 

I am surprised that they did not start off demanding two free cruises and chocolate cake due to the confinement.:rolleyes:

 

They don't realize how lucky there were. They had a warm cabin, visits from the medical staff and meals brought to them.

 

Bob

 

Have you ever noticed the kinds of folks that get interviewed in many situations such as this, tragic car crashes, fires, etc...always seem to get the ones who sensationalize the situation.

 

Last cruise where I saw an outbreak someone in cabin next to us and a few down the other direction got sick...never saw them in an out, just crew working hard to keep it contained and get them food. No guards at the cabin doors or anything horrible like that, just folks healing up.

[Posaune]

From the CDC website--

You are most contagious

when you are sick with norovirus illness, and

during the first 3 days after you recover from norovirus illness.

 

Most cruise lines ask you to stay in 2 days after symptoms end. Stay in your cabins people!!

[DebJ14]

Idiots. Of course they had to stay quarantined. These people probably sent their kids to school when they were sick too.

 

I had a co-worker on an NCL cruise out of New Orleans whose son was ground zero for a Noro outbreak. They boarded in spite of the kid being up all night with vomiting and diarrhea in the hotel. Eventually all 4 of them got it and they were confined to the cabin. The Dad tried to get off in Cozumel and his card dinged. He was taken back to the cabin by security and admonished that if they tried to leave again a guard would be posted outside the cabin. He wanted his money back. I told him NCL should charge him since he knowingly took on the sick kid and infected several hundred people.

 

We take a suite when we travel during the winter months. I would rather be confined to my nice big suite for 3 days than to an inside cabin on the bottom deck.

Edited January 31, 2014 by DebJ14