How would you handle glacially slow MDR service

[sixesandeights]

That's a pretty rude response. Come on; re-read the title of my post. You just wanted to make a nice little flame this morning. As to the answer of your questions looking for a way to "blame" me for receiving consisten subpar service I have answered those. I don't NEED to provide you with every detail as obviously you are going to have a negative opinion and not be helpful, but I did provide those details to satiate your own curiosity. Do you have anything useful to add?

 

LoveyHowell I agree with you 100%. Most of these comments are VERY rude. You can reduce the DSC, and not remove completely. The service in the MDR should be acceptable. If the service is terrible and the Head Waiter does not correct, then his tips should go away. If the server is rude then they should not receive tips. Tips are to show appreciation for a job well done. Tips are NOT guaranteed amounts. This PAX shaming crap that is clear in this board and in the attitudes of the people on the boats that these tips are deserved even when the promise is not met is insane. If customers continue to allow the service to slip and allow themselves to be shamed into paying full price for half assed service then the service will continue to degrade.

 

If you were not happy with your service, reduce your tips. When the servers tips go down they will approach management internally and complain that the reduced staffing is hurting their bottom line. That is how changes are made. NOTHING will ever change if we just suck it up and pay out even though we are not satisfied.

 

I am sorry to see so many people on here responding to this very reasonable question with such terrible attitudes. People can ask questions, it is not your job to pass judgement. If you can answer the question with helpful information then do so, but to respond as rudely as some of you have done....despicable....

 

6&8

Edited February 3, 2014 by sixesandeights

[newmexicoNita]

You know what, thank you! That IS good practical advice. I didn't know that or perhaps didn't remember. Like I said, I had an "odd" experience on Carnival years ago and I stopped with roll calls, M&M's, etc. If NCL are sending management to those I should look into them. Having an efficient way to reach high up onboard management COULD resolve issues that arise in the future, if they do so at all.

 

They do send a number of the management to the M&G and they are very helpful.

[sixesandeights]

If you do some quick math. Lets take the Dawn for an example they have approx. 1000 crew. Let's assume 1/3 of them are service & behind the scenes workers. $12 / 340 crew = $0.04 cents a day they get from you to divide between cash and incentive programs. Your whole 7 days would only be $0.28. Do you really want to stand in line at the customer service to remove $0.28.

 

Just trying to put things in perspective.

 

You don't seem to know how the tip are given out on a cruise ship.....Saying that one should never reduce the tip amount is pure insanity....

 

If the service is poor then reduce the tip. Money talks, and on a cruise ship that is the ONLY thing they actually listen to. You can talk to all the HD or CD you want, but in the end once you are off the boat they could care less. You want to really make them take notice? REDUCE THEIR PAYCHECK. They see that tips are way down and they will review their procedures.

 

They dont call it DSC because they are mandatory.

 

6&8

[che5904]

You don't seem to know how the tip are given out on a cruise ship.....Saying that one should never reduce the tip amount is pure insanity....

 

If the service is poor then reduce the tip. Money talks, and on a cruise ship that is the ONLY thing they actually listen to. You can talk to all the HD or CD you want, but in the end once you are off the boat they could care less. You want to really make them take notice? REDUCE THEIR PAYCHECK. They see that tips are way down and they will review their procedures.

 

They dont call it DSC because they are mandatory.

 

6&8

 

Can you please point out to me where I ever said "one should never reduce the tip amount".

 

Please read what I am quoting when I respond and don't rephrase my words to what you think I may be saying. Instead of feeling the need to be rude.

[bguppies]

Lovey,

 

Thank you for the well thought out question and reasonable responses to all the cheerleader nonsense responses to your inquiries.

 

To me anything over 90 minutes in a MDR is too long for a sit down meal.

120 minutes is poor service and anything more is ridiculous.

 

I'd probably try to single out poor servers through comment cards as I doubt reducing the DSC will have any effect on management, as they are the ones intentionally reducing staffing to save $$$$.

 

But I agree that such poor service should not just be passed on or rewarded with the minimum already taken out each day.

 

And I just don't get all of the folks who treat people like it is their fault, if they choose to NOT participate in a Meet and Greet, because meeting the officers will solve all problems magically.

 

Like you stated from the start, about a problem you had with a previous Meet and Greet.

People should not HAVE to attend a Meet and Greet to get the good service that should come with your cruise fare.

 

Yet every thread I read about various problems, on different ships, always winds up with "you should have attended your Meet and Greet" blah, blah, blah...

 

Whatever you choose to do from here on, I hope you receive proper service from here on..

 

Good luck.

[SteveH2508]

Purely for clarification purposes - the comment cards that NCL now use are called 'Vacation Hero' cards - Style cards went out a couple of years ago IIRC. Same thing - different name so newer staff may not know what a Style card is if you ask for one.

[LoveyHowell]

OK I won't flame you, but I can tell you how to successfully make this happen without reducing the DSC and punishing all but just the ones you think deserve it.

 

Here is where the DSC differs from an actual tip, because it does not all go to the crew in the form of $$$$s like a normal tip would.

 

"What's the service charge? Staff members including restaurant staff, stateroom stewards and behind-the-scenes support staff are compensated by a combination of salary and incentive programs that your service charge supports."

 

Therefore you would never know how much to deduct because you don't know how much goes to each crew member in cash, nor do you know how many ways the actual cash is divided.

 

If a crew member does not live up to your expectations. Get their name, fill out a style card (or whatever it is they call them now). Put the crews name on it and where you think they did not meet your expectations. Then when it comes to promotions or other "incentive programs" they will have a strike against them. Far more important to a crew member than the few cents they get from each DSC per passenger when it is divided among so many crew members and they don't get the whole thing in cash.

 

And far less time wasted on your vacation, because those cards are normally found in your cabin and you can fill them out at your leisure instead of standing in a line up at customer service.

 

You can even simplify filling them out if there is a group like your example in the buffet clearing dishes or pool people you have spoken to. Just give the date and time, I guarantee they know who's working which shift and where.

 

I am just now reading some responses at lunch. First off, thanks for your input. I can appreciate the manner in which you are sharing your opinion, in not only a civil way, but that you take the time to support your opinions.

 

However, from my point of view, if service is subpar but I leave full DSC in place, I am effectively over-tipping. And the other issue with your method is that if a crew/staff member is having an off day or week and I complain about that person I am hurting their chances for promotion or advancement in the NCL system. So, you see, it is difficult to know the best way to handle any given situation.

 

I will say this much though that I have learned from other posts - It is fairly easy to get a hold of the appropriate higher level management onboard the ship. *IF* I encounter issues in the future I will escalate to that level; however I will not spend my entire vacation playing message tag, in meetings, dealing with belligerence, etc. I will ask the wait staff to speed up (if slow) and then escalate to the top of the chain and make the same request. Thanks all for making me understand how easy I can voice concerns to that level. Just understand as well that I'm not going to micromanage NCL operations staff when I want to enjoy vacation.

[LoveyHowell]

Not really necessary to attend the M&G if you don't want to. The only real number you need is the phone number to the hotel director. Most ships it is 8888. The customer service desk can give it to you if you are unsure.

 

The buck stops with the HD, so he is usually the best last (first?) resort to contact. If the HD cannot fix your issue, it cannot be fixed while on board.

 

I appreciate the concise and factual help.

[che5904]

Purely for clarification purposes - the comment cards that NCL now use are called 'Vacation Hero' cards - Style cards went out a couple of years ago IIRC. Same thing - different name so newer staff may not know what a Style card is if you ask for one.

 

Thanks Steve, that's why my post said (or whatever they are called now). I did know the name had changed but haven't been on a ship since they changed over and couldn't remember what they called them now.

[LoveyHowell]

Was this with the new menus that are being rolled out? I can definitely see a meal taking 3 hours if the kitchen keeps messing up new recipes.

 

No. It was this past fall. I don't believe it was a new menu (that I am aware of) I have started a thread about NCL compared to Celebrity for Bermuda. Thinking back to the highs and lows of my last NCL cruise prompted me to make this posting.

[LoveyHowell]

OK but considering that this amount does not go to "NCL" but to their crew and their crew's incentive programs you are not hitting NCL's wallet, only helping your own. And the OP already stated a few times that she did not feel this was a "crew" issue but more at management level (who do not in any way benefit from the DSC).

 

If you are not satisfied, take your business elsewhere, now that is hitting NCL's wallet. Demand an OBC for what you are not satisfied about (you will have to either do that with the H.D onboard for that sailing. or for a future cruise with corporate after your cruise). Their portion of course wouldn't be equivalent to the whole OBC but regardless it will hit NCL's wallet.

 

Try making the punishment fit the crime.

 

You make another excellent point here.

[che5904]

I am just now reading some responses at lunch. First off, thanks for your input. I can appreciate the manner in which you are sharing your opinion, in not only a civil way, but that you take the time to support your opinions.

 

However, from my point of view, if service is subpar but I leave full DSC in place, I am effectively over-tipping. And the other issue with your method is that if a crew/staff member is having an off day or week and I complain about that person I am hurting their chances for promotion or advancement in the NCL system. So, you see, it is difficult to know the best way to handle any given situation.

 

 

I totally understand your quandary. But if you take some or all of it away are you not going to feel the need to explain why. If the answer to that is no, then you are in effect leaving the problem in place so it could crop up to bite you again in the butt if you happen to cruise on that ship again with that or those workers on another ship (they do switch ships some times). Also the remainder that is left in place will still be split among whoever is in the pool and therefore you are still tipping the bad worker. If the answer is yes, then that worker will still get a bad mark on their record but probably still not be cut from the pool.

 

I can't agree with you on the worker that is having a bad day, because if that were so, yours would be the only negative on that worker's record or the cards would only come from that day. Therefore, most employers realize that employees have a couple of bad days or aren't perfect and will take that into consideration. If yours is among many for that worker over many days, those are the people that companies wish to weed out or at the least reprimand.

 

But as I said I understand it is a hard call to make. I usually will not take action on any employee unless I really feel wronged by them.

 

As I said jokingly but somewhat seriously on another post. Ask that worker for a "vacation hero card". It also helps when you are asking for one that you appear to be looking at their name tag. You don't even really have to be intending on passing it to management, unless things don't improve. If that worker is a good worker but just having an off day, I would put money on the fact that they will turn themselves around pretty quickly.

 

I've actually done this on land. I've looked at a service persons name tag and asked where I might get a "comment card". You wouldn't believe the different service I've received.

 

I will say this much though that I have learned from other posts - It is fairly easy to get a hold of the appropriate higher level management onboard the ship. *IF* I encounter issues in the future I will escalate to that level; however I will not spend my entire vacation playing message tag, in meetings, dealing with belligerence, etc. I will ask the wait staff to speed up (if slow) and then escalate to the top of the chain and make the same request. Thanks all for making me understand how easy I can voice concerns to that level. Just understand as well that I'm not going to micromanage NCL operations staff when I want to enjoy vacation.

 

Oh my goodness I agree completely, although I do go to the top when putting in complaints I feel worthy of expressing. I certainly wouldn't take all of my vacation time to run around in circles with management. If we couldn't connect, at least my complaint had gone to the right person. Therefore when I got back and contacted corporate, there would be a record of my original complaint.

Edited February 3, 2014 by che5904

[LoveyHowell]

. This PAX shaming crap that is clear in this board and in the attitudes of the people on the boats that these tips are deserved even when the promise is not met is insane. If customers continue to allow the service to slip and allow themselves to be shamed into paying full price for half assed service then the service will continue to degrade.

 

If you were not happy with your service, reduce your tips. When the servers tips go down they will approach management internally and complain that the reduced staffing is hurting their bottom line. That is how changes are made. NOTHING will ever change if we just suck it up and pay out even though we are not satisfied.

 

 

I think you put in words better than I can exactly how I feel about this sort of thing. Like I said, I am glad to pay DSC at prescribed levels for good service, but I don't believe in paying the same rate for bad service. It's just a shame that in this case it wasn't the wait staff fault per se, but rather management not supplying enough wait staff in general. I won't pillory my waiter personally; friendly and hard working, but NCL is a hospitality business and the service levels had quite obviously been cut to "barely tolerable" in this regard.

 

After reading some more about service levels in the MDR perhaps it is a small miracle I did not have to wait an hour every night just to get in like so many others state. Something is very wrong here. The delays and slowness are assuredly caused by understaffing.

 

This has gotten worse and worse at land based restaurants. I quite clearly remember when 10-12% was a good tip, 15% was great. Now 15% is seen as an insult/bare minimum, they want 20% just for breathing, and 25% if they are more than halfway decent in any regards. Customer service requires more than just showing up I am afraid. I don't need personalized pampering, but efficiency is key. There are other activities that I want to participate in during the evening. I don't want buffet style food shoveled down my mouth; I want the banquet dining experience I have paid for. No more or less. Thank you for understanding and putting it in words so well.

[LoveyHowell]

Like you stated from the start, about a problem you had with a previous Meet and Greet.

 

We had participated in a meet and greet where there was a gift exchange. We had happened to pick up a his and hers Hamptons baseball caps and so thought that would be a nice token memento to exchange. We included a little card with our names. During the exchange our name was called out, I thought the person who received the gift just might want to chit chat or say thank you.

 

Nope. Dead wrong. They wanted to publicly humiliate us for our thoughtless and cheap gift. They then let us know that we didn't participate much in the roll call and maybe we shouldn't participate in the other M&G activities. (My involvement was, months before the cruise, to say hi, we will be onboard, look forward to meeting new people). When someone mentioned a gift exchange I responded that we would be interested.

 

Apparently over the course of those few months a few people became real chatty buddies and were volleying back and forth about their kids and their home life and this ones illness and that ones award and work and blah, blah, blah, blah - stuff I don't think anyone with an ounce of self-preservation would post to total strangers they never met face to face. I hadn't paid much attention and didn't participate in the conversation and so this couple took it upon themselves to publicy ostracize/humiliate us. Weird. Trashy. Kind of sad really. I felt more embarassed for them than for myself. I was thinking wow, these people take cruise critic waaaaaay too seriously. Crazy town. Do you know who knows my personal family information? My family.

 

I then stopped using my old account and simply read for information for a long time before making this new account to ask questions. We make friends much more organically now; chit chatting at embarkation, sailaway, in a lounge.

[che5904]

Like I said, I am glad to pay DSC at prescribed levels for good service, but I don't believe in paying the same rate for bad service. It's just a shame that in this case it wasn't the wait staff fault per se, but rather management not supplying enough wait staff in general. I won't pillory my waiter personally; friendly and hard working, but NCL is a hospitality business and the service levels had quite obviously been cut to "barely tolerable" in this regard.

 

After reading some more about service levels in the MDR perhaps it is a small miracle I did not have to wait an hour every night just to get in like so many others state. Something is very wrong here. The delays and slowness are assuredly caused by understaffing.

 

This has gotten worse and worse at land based restaurants. I quite clearly remember when 10-12% was a good tip, 15% was great. Now 15% is seen as an insult/bare minimum, they want 20% just for breathing, and 25% if they are more than halfway decent in any regards. Customer service requires more than just showing up I am afraid. I don't need personalized pampering, but efficiency is key. There are other activities that I want to participate in during the evening. I don't want buffet style food shoveled down my mouth; I want the banquet dining experience I have paid for. No more or less.

 

Lovey one last thing I will comment on and then probably back out of this thread because I believe I have made all the points I need to.

 

As I said earlier slap the hand that needs slapping and if you believe this is a management issue then that's what needs to be addressed and the DSC on the ship IMO will not do that.

 

Here's my take on the difference between land restaurants and tipping and the ship. (And I'm positive a few on here will disagree, and that's ok because we each have our own opinion).

 

Land restaurants are in the U.S. and under U.S. customs and thoughts among employees. As long as there is enough employees they will normally gang up and put pressure on employers to make things right. Think the pressures that unions have made with groups of people over the years.

 

Unfortunately you would probably not find ship workers (from very underprivileged countries) would be as vocal as U.S. citizens. They feel fortunate to have a job that is higher paying than they can get in their own country, and realize their job is only as long as their contract and can be filled by someone else when that contract is up. Therefore, they are not as apt to try and force management to fix something. So coming down on these workers will not necessarily make an impact on corporate.

 

Unless you feel that a problem is a crew problem, then you should deal at the crew level. Set whatever consequences you deem appropriate in place.

[LoveyHowell]

Back to work. I'll revisit this evening and see if there are any other suggestions, comments, or questions.

[hbooden]

However, from my point of view, if service is subpar but I leave full DSC in place, I am effectively over-tipping. And the other issue with your method is that if a crew/staff member is having an off day or week and I complain about that person I am hurting their chances for promotion or advancement in the NCL system. So, you see, it is difficult to know the best way to handle any given situation.

 

I will say this much though that I have learned from other posts - It is fairly easy to get a hold of the appropriate higher level management onboard the ship. *IF* I encounter issues in the future I will escalate to that level; however I will not spend my entire vacation playing message tag, in meetings, dealing with belligerence, etc. I will ask the wait staff to speed up (if slow) and then escalate to the top of the chain and make the same request. Thanks all for making me understand how easy I can voice concerns to that level. Just understand as well that I'm not going to micromanage NCL operations staff when I want to enjoy vacation.

 

I don't think you would be over tipping? *hear me out :)*

 

It sounds like the incredibly slow food service is a kitchen issue NOT a server issue. Does that make sense? just a thought

[hbooden]

Back to work. I'll revisit this evening and see if there are any other suggestions, comments, or questions.

 

Having not been on a cruise before...I am not sure how I would handle it to be honest. If I was really unhappy I would probably complain until someone did something about it - or tried to make me a happy cruiser. I'd start with my server, go to their boss, and so on. If it happened more than once I'd get as high as I could on the boat (I'm like that though - I know what it takes to work a restaurant having been there done that - so I don't pick on things that are out of people's control but if I feel like they could have done a better job then yup I might say something.)

 

I probably wouldn't have gone back to the same restaurant for every night of the cruise if they did something that made me THAT unhappy. I get it - you paid for it - but I would have at some point request some comp'd dinners in their extra pay restaurants. I wouldn't have been unhappy for a whole cruise.

[che5904]

We had participated in a meet and greet where there was a gift exchange. We had happened to pick up a his and hers Hamptons baseball caps and so thought that would be a nice token memento to exchange. We included a little card with our names. During the exchange our name was called out, I thought the person who received the gift just might want to chit chat or say thank you.

 

Nope. Dead wrong. They wanted to publicly humiliate us for our thoughtless and cheap gift. They then let us know that we didn't participate much in the roll call and maybe we shouldn't participate in the other M&G activities. (My involvement was, months before the cruise, to say hi, we will be onboard, look forward to meeting new people). When someone mentioned a gift exchange I responded that we would be interested.

 

Apparently over the course of those few months a few people became real chatty buddies and were volleying back and forth about their kids and their home life and this ones illness and that ones award and work and blah, blah, blah, blah - stuff I don't think anyone with an ounce of self-preservation would post to total strangers they never met face to face. I hadn't paid much attention and didn't participate in the conversation and so this couple took it upon themselves to publicy ostracize/humiliate us. Weird. Trashy. Kind of sad really. I felt more embarassed for them than for myself. I was thinking wow, these people take cruise critic waaaaaay too seriously. Crazy town. Do you know who knows my personal family information? My family.

 

I then stopped using my old account and simply read for information for a long time before making this new account to ask questions. We make friends much more organically now; chit chatting at embarkation, sailaway, in a lounge.

 

What a sad story Lovey.

 

OK, I can't speak for other cruise lines, not even Carnival since I didn't have an issue that needed to be addressed. So I wasn't looking to locate upper management.

 

Before your cruise if you don't wish to participate in the roll call or even in the meet and greet.

 

NCL has a hotel director box at their customer service, that you can stick a note in, with a room number or not (choice is yours). If you put a room number on they or whoever is responsible for what you have an issue with will contact you. Your decision if you wish to meet with them or just pass on the complaint and deal with it after you get home.

 

If it's a restaurant issue the food and beverage officer can be very helpful if you don't wish to go to the head of the line. Ours on our last cruise was magic, he seemed to appear in every restaurant we ate in, I don't know if he was stalking us or just could split himself in numerous pieces ;) Of course I knew it was him because we met him at the M&G, but they are very easy to spot they dress nothing like anyone else, they look quite official.

 

If you need the head of any department the customer service desk has all of their contact numbers. Just tell them "no I don't wish to deal with you, all I want is such and such extension number".

 

Their picture are also hanging on the wall, but depending on the ship I can't tell you where, but you will probably see them when you are wandering the ship.

[luddite]

you can and should reduce your tipping at guest services to $10 Pp Pd. NCL needs to feel the pain in order to implement changes and the only way to get their attention is where it hurts , the wallet. If enough people show their displeasure then things will improve but if people continue to pay for subpar service why should they make changes.

Just so you'll know......

Tipping and the Service Charge aren't the same thing.

[luddite]

LoveyHowell I agree with you 100%. Most of these comments are VERY rude. You can reduce the DSC, and not remove completely. The service in the MDR should be acceptable. If the service is terrible and the Head Waiter does not correct, then his tips should go away. If the server is rude then they should not receive tips. Tips are to show appreciation for a job well done. Tips are NOT guaranteed amounts. This PAX shaming crap that is clear in this board and in the attitudes of the people on the boats that these tips are deserved even when the promise is not met is insane. If customers continue to allow the service to slip and allow themselves to be shamed into paying full price for half assed service then the service will continue to degrade.

 

If you were not happy with your service, reduce your tips. When the servers tips go down they will approach management internally and complain that the reduced staffing is hurting their bottom line. That is how changes are made. NOTHING will ever change if we just suck it up and pay out even though we are not satisfied.

 

I am sorry to see so many people on here responding to this very reasonable question with such terrible attitudes. People can ask questions, it is not your job to pass judgement. If you can answer the question with helpful information then do so, but to respond as rudely as some of you have done....despicable....

 

6&8

There is a lot of incorrect info here. Tips and the service Charge are not the same thing.

[jkgourmet]

you can and should reduce your tipping at guest services to $10 Pp Pd. NCL needs to feel the pain in order to implement changes and the only way to get their attention is where it hurts , the wallet. If enough people show their displeasure then things will improve but if people continue to pay for subpar service why should they make changes.

 

Totally disagree with you here. The only people who will feel the pain from reducing the tipping/service charges will be those staff that receive them.

 

You wanna make NCL feel the pain? Book another cruise line. And tell them exactly why. In writing, and on their Facebook page.

 

Don't blame the messenger/crew for the corporate decisions that have caused the problems of understaffing and undertraining.

Edited February 3, 2014 by jkgourmet

[sixesandeights]

There is a lot of incorrect info here. Tips and the service Charge are not the same thing.

 

It is a dollar amount that is given to people based on their service. It is a TIP. They can call it whatever they want, but it does not change the fact it is a tip. If it was a service charge as you are trying to insinuate it would be mandatory and not optional.

 

6&8

[sixesandeights]

Totally disagree with you here. The only people who will feel the pain from reducing the tipping/service charges will be those staff that receive them.

 

You wanna make NCL feel the pain? Book another cruise line. And tell them exactly why. In writing, and on their Facebook page.

 

Don't blame the messenger/crew for the corporate decisions that have caused the problems of understaffing and undertraining.

 

This is not charity. If they want to earn their full tip then they need to provide a level of service. If the management does not provide them with what they need to do this it is up to THEM to fight that battle. It is not up to me, the guest, to be both unsatisfied and financially responsible.

 

6&8

Edited February 3, 2014 by sixesandeights

[luddite]

It is a dollar amount that is given to people based on their service. It is a TIP. They can call it whatever they want, but it does not change the fact it is a tip. If it was a service charge as you are trying to insinuate it would be mandatory and not optional.

 

6&8

 

No.

It isn't a tip. a tip is what you give them after paying the Service Charge.