Delete auto grautuity and pay cash?

[Wakepatrol]

Have passengers sign a paper before they board the ship. Don't want to pay the HSC then you don't board the ship.

 

Can't get port taxes back, can't get bar gratuities back

Why oh why have an escape hatch for the skinflints of the world?

 

Don't sell cabins for $499 for a 7 day cruise.

 

Charge $799

 

The way it goes now,guy pays $499 brings his own soda, water and wine (before the new policy) then removes his HSC. Complains he can't get his cabin temperature down to 63 degrees and you give him $200-$400 towards a future cruise. How on earth do you make money doing this?

[kazu]

Have passengers sign a paper before they board the ship. Don't want to pay the HSC then you don't board the ship.

 

Can't get port taxes back, can't get bar gratuities back

Why oh why have an escape hatch for the skinflints of the world?

 

Don't sell cabins for $499 for a 7 day cruise.

 

Charge $799

 

The way it goes now,guy pays $499 brings his own soda, water and wine (before the new policy) then removes his HSC. Complains he can't get his cabin temperature down to 63 degrees and you give him $200-$400 towards a future cruise. How on earth do you make money doing this?

 

One more time we are agreeing on many things - scary isn't it ;)

 

the wine of course I will never agree on - but we buy plenty from HAL so with the new corkage I am happy as I think it is fair ball to all.

 

The hsc (hotel service charge) is part of the cost of cruising IMO. simple as that.

 

btw - my cabins have never been at the prices you are mentioning and I suspect on our September cruise no one will be snatching them at those prices ;)

[startwin]

Have passengers sign a paper before they board the ship. Don't want to pay the HSC then you don't board the ship.

 

Can't get port taxes back, can't get bar gratuities back

Why oh why have an escape hatch for the skinflints of the world?

 

Don't sell cabins for $499 for a 7 day cruise.

 

Charge $799

 

The way it goes now,guy pays $499 brings his own soda, water and wine (before the new policy) then removes his HSC. Complains he can't get his cabin temperature down to 63 degrees and you give him $200-$400 towards a future cruise. How on earth do you make money doing this?

 

 

Wow. For once I agree with you - well, 95% anyway. The new wine policy is fine and we always followed rules and paid corkage anyway. But re the air conditioning - they should simply just fix it, not give compo.

Edited February 15, 2014 by startwin

[jtl513]

Have passengers sign a paper before they board the ship. Don't want to pay the HSC then you don't board the ship.

Solving the HSC-skinflint problem need not require such drastic measures. All HAL has to do is strictly enforce the stated policy that the HSC can only be reduced or removed for unsatisfactory service. Require a face-to-face meeting with the passenger, the steward alleged to have provided inadequate service, and his/her supervisor. Set the meeting for a time inconvenient for the passenger. Watch how fast the cheapskates decide their service was satisfactory after all! ;)

[cruz chic]

Solving the HSC-skinflint problem need not require such drastic measures. All HAL has to do is strictly enforce the stated policy that the HSC can only be reduced or removed for unsatisfactory service. Require a face-to-face meeting with the passenger, the steward alleged to have provided inadequate service, and his/her supervisor. Set the meeting for a time inconvenient for the passenger. Watch how fast the cheapskates decide their service was satisfactory after all! ;)

 

That sounds like a good plan.

[Wakepatrol]

One more time we are agreeing on many things - scary isn't it ;)

 

the wine of course I will never agree on - but we buy plenty from HAL so with the new corkage I am happy as I think it is fair ball to all.

 

The hsc (hotel service charge) is part of the cost of cruising IMO. simple as that.

 

btw - my cabins have never been at the prices you are mentioning and I suspect on our September cruise no one will be snatching them at those prices ;)

 

Prinsendam shminsendam. Yes we know you sail mostly on the Prinsendam and take long voyages. So you don't get offers for cruises for $499.

 

Guess what? Either does the world cruiser or the guy who takes Antartica small ship cruises who goes on zodiac excursions every day.

 

I'm referring to the 99% of the Joeschmoe cruisers which I'm a part of.

 

I get emails daily for Caribbean cruises starting at $449 for 7 days. They sell Alaskan cruises for peanuts as well. The Bermuda cruises went for as low as $399

 

 

You will not receive them. The other 99% will.

[kazu]

Prinsendam shminsendam. Yes we know you sail mostly on the Prinsendam and take long voyages. So you don't get offers for cruises for $499.

 

Guess what? Either does the world cruiser or the guy who takes Antartica small ship cruises who goes on zodiac excursions every day.

 

I'm referring to the 99% of the Joeschmoe cruisers which I'm a part of.

 

I get emails daily for Caribbean cruises starting at $449 for 7 days. They sell Alaskan cruises for peanuts as well. The Bermuda cruises went for as low as $399

 

 

You will not receive them. The other 99% will.

 

:confused:

 

What was this backlash for?? I was agreeing with you for the most part.

 

guess I shouldn't have bothered.

 

and please don't make assumptions about what you don't know. If you even bothered to read a signature (or look) you would know that our next cruise is a standard Caribbean. Just because I am a fan of one ship doesn't mean we don't sail others.

[Boatdrill]

HAL charges automatically $11.50 per person, per day for gratuities.... It has been suggested to me if I don't want to pay that much, on the last night ask guest services to delete the automatic gratuities from the final bill .

 

If you're going to do this, please don't wait until the last night of the cruise to notify the Front Office. Remember there are 1,000+ other passengers onboard, many of whom will be denying charges or requesting adjustments to their account the last night of the cruise. The Front Office/accounting has enough to handle the night before debark without having to spend time adjusting your account.

 

Instead notify them of your request immediately upon embarkation. This will give them a day or so to take care of it for you.

[Boatdrill]

 

The HSC is not an "auto gratuity", it is a charge for services rendered, and the only legitimate reason to remove it is if the service is unsatisfactory. Gratuities are cash given in addition to the HSC.

 

If this were completely true, then HAL would still hand out the little tip envelopes, and give a lecture on how much to tip the waiter, busboy, maître d', and the room steward.

[sapper1]

Prinsendam shminsendam. Yes we know you sail mostly on the Prinsendam and take long voyages. So you don't get offers for cruises for $499.

 

Guess what? Either does the world cruiser or the guy who takes Antartica small ship cruises who goes on zodiac excursions every day.

 

I'm referring to the 99% of the Joeschmoe cruisers which I'm a part of.

 

I get emails daily for Caribbean cruises starting at $449 for 7 days. They sell Alaskan cruises for peanuts as well. The Bermuda cruises went for as low as $399

 

 

You will not receive them. The other 99% will.

This is a particularily unpleasant response to what was a very friendly post in which the poster was agreeing with you. I was also going to add a post in agreement with what you said but now I'm afraid to----having sailed on the Prinsendam and all.

[cruise_bunnies]

I wonder why people are so upset that others might or might not be skinflints. It doesn't bother me if I pay a HSC or tip myself, I know I will pay them anyway. In fact, last cruise, we did both, because some people had given service above and beyond.

 

Our country is known for being skinflints (sorry fellow Dutchmen). I've read accounts of people (before HSC) that would skip the last dinner and eat nothing, so as not to have to tip. I've read accounts of people reducing or removing the HSC. I've read accounts of people giving out empty envelopes or even tearing them up and leaving them on the bed to 'leave a message'. The list goes on and on. I've heard that the HSC has been instated to make sure most skinflint behavior doesn't come up - it's not a 100% guarantee, but apparently it's enough for the cruise line.

 

Tipping isn't in our culture much (due to people getting a living wage), but our family has always been different due to being in the hospitality industry. I know how a tip can make somebodies night and if they made mine, why wouldn't I return the favor?

 

Why would it bother me that others make different choices? I'm so surprised that this subject is so heated here. We do what we do, which is tip, and tip generously, when staff deserves it. They can do what they want to do.

 

I see no harm in people asking questions about the HSC (can it be removed, should it be removed, what is it for, who gets what) as it's natural to be curious. Just answer and let them make up their own minds about what they want to do.

Edited February 15, 2014 by cruise_bunnies

[G&G]

Interesting thread. The best way to handle tips on a cruise is to have it included in the price of the cruise. A very few cruise lines do this.

 

But to be competitive most cruise lines do not include tips in their prices. If the cruise lines were honest with us, tips would not be called tips but part of the crew salary. The crew receive such a small compensation for the hours they work that they need the passengers to supplement their salary "outside the box" in what they call tips.

[jtl513]

If the cruise lines were honest with us, tips would not be called tips but part of the crew salary.

Did you read post #8? "The Hotel Service Charge is paid to Holland America Line crew members, and represents an important part of their compensation."

[jtl513]

If you're going to do this, please don't wait until the last night of the cruise to notify the Front Office.

Instead notify them of your request immediately upon embarkation. This will give them a day or so to take care of it for you.

The only legitimate reason to remove the HSC is that you have received unsatisfactory service. You can't say in advance that service you have not received will be unsatisfactory.

 

But here's an idea to relieve last-day cheapskate congestion: only allow the HSC to be removed on a day-by-day basis ... give them just 24 hours to report each instance of unsatisfactory service, and have the HSC canceled for one day only. Require each instance to be described in detail on the form. Then do not immediately grant the deduction of the charge, but require "approval" from someone higher up the management chain than the desk clerk. This will, of course, take at least a day! :cool:

[catl331]

If the cruise lines were honest with us, tips would not be called tips but part of the crew salary.

They would be called Hotel Service Charges and "an important part of their compensation"! :D Edited February 15, 2014 by catl331

[cbr663]

 

But here's an idea to relieve last-day cheapskate congestion: only allow the HSC to be removed on a day-by-day basis ... give them just 24 hours to report each instance of unsatisfactory service, and have the HSC canceled for one day only. Require each instance to be described in detail on the form. Then do not immediately grant the deduction of the charge, but require "approval" from someone higher up the management chain than the desk clerk. This will, of course, take at least a day! :cool:

 

About the only thing that this will accomplish is to completely alienate the passengers and ensure that the passengers never again sail with the cruise line. I see this as a losing proposition for the cruise line.

[cbr663]

 

I get emails daily for Caribbean cruises starting at $449 for 7 days. They sell Alaskan cruises for peanuts as well. The Bermuda cruises went for as low as $399

 

 

 

HAL has to offer these prices in order to attract passengers to its ships. You might not like it, and HAL might not like it, but that is the way it is. There just aren't enough passengers willing to pay the regular HAL fares.

[jtl513]

About the only thing that this will accomplish is to completely alienate the passengers and ensure that the passengers never again sail with the cruise line. I see this as a losing proposition for the cruise line.

Yes, it may drive off some of the phony cheapskates ... and good riddance! :rolleyes: Better to drive them off than lose valuable crew members who aren't being compensated for their work.

 

I read a post here some time ago (I think was by BruceMuzz) that said a large number of the crew from his ship quit after one cruise around Australia/New Zealand because so many passengers had removed the HSC, and they weren't intererested in continuing to work for very little pay on the next cruise. I think that would impact a cruise line's bottom line far more than alienating cheapskates.

.

Edited February 15, 2014 by jtl513

[G&G]

Did you read post #8? "The Hotel Service Charge is paid to Holland America Line crew members, and represents an important part of their compensation."

 

I did not read Post #8.

 

I guess one would ask what does "important part" mean as referenced in HAL's "Hotel Service Charge" description.

 

I have researched this issue and have found the following:

 

1. Tipped staff earn a base salary from $50/month to $200/month; depending if staff is waiter, assistant waiter, bartender, etc.

 

2. With tips the staff earn between $1,000/month to $4,000/month.

 

Thus tips represents up to 95% of their total compensation. So instead of stating that the Charge is an important part of their compensation, it is their compensation.

[cbr663]

Yes, it may drive off some of the phony cheapskates ... and good riddance! :rolleyes: Better to drive them off than lose valuable crew members who aren't being compensated for their work.

 

I read a post here some time ago (I think was by BruceMuzz) that said a large number of the crew from his ship quit after one cruise around Australia/New Zealand because so many passengers had removed the HSC, and they weren't intererested in continuing to work for very little pay on the next cruise. I think that would impact a cruise line's bottom line far more than alienating cheapskates.

.

 

Unfortunately, HAL doesn't have the option of alienating paying passengers. HAL is facing tougher competition and drops the prices of its cruises to attract passengers, otherwise, many ships will sail with unsold cabins. It's a sad fact that once a ship sails, an empty cabin produces $0 revenues that cannot be recovered. Crews cannot received any HSC if the passengers are not there to pay them.

 

The CD on our December NA cruise told us that the cruise was sailing at less than capacity, and I know that our upcoming Alaska cruise in the Spring is not sold out.

[cruz chic]

I did not read Post #8.

 

I guess one would ask what does "important part" mean as referenced in HAL's "Hotel Service Charge" description.

 

I have researched this issue and have found the following:

 

1. Tipped staff earn a base salary from $50/month to $200/month; depending if staff is waiter, assistant waiter, bartender, etc.

 

2. With tips the staff earn between $1,000/month to $4,000/month.

 

Thus tips represents up to 95% of their total compensation. So instead of stating that the Charge is an important part of their compensation, it is their compensation.

Where did you research come from? I can tell you with certainty that the staff makes a minimum of $500 a month before tips. This came from a cabin steward several years ago.

[jtl513]

Crews cannot received any HSC if the passengers are not there to pay them.

People who don't pay the charges are subtracting from on board revenues, which is worse than an empty cabin. Do you really think that people who are so tight that they won't pay the HSC are big spenders elsewhere on the ship? I highly doubt it.

[cruz chic]

Unfortunately, HAL doesn't have the option of alienating paying passengers. HAL is facing tougher competition and drops the prices of its cruises to attract passengers, otherwise, many ships will sail with unsold cabins. It's a sad fact that once a ship sails, an empty cabin produces $0 revenues that cannot be recovered. Crews cannot received any HSC if the passengers are not there to pay them.

 

The CD on our December NA cruise told us that the cruise was sailing at less than capacity, and I know that our upcoming Alaska cruise in the Spring is not sold out.

 

If cheapskates are removing the hsc how is that more helpful then an empty cabin? I sat with a lady in traditional dining on a 26 day cruise. She removed her hsc. She was the most demanding person I've ever seen. I hope karma comes back to visit people like that.

[G&G]

Where did you research come from? I can tell you with certainty that the staff makes a minimum of $500 a month before tips. This came from a cabin steward several years ago.

 

Google the internet concerning tips vs wages on cruise ships.

 

I read an article that referenced HAL salaried staff (non tip staff) were paid higher salaries than most other cruise lines; up to $350-$500/week

[startwin]

I wonder why people are so upset that others might or might not be skinflints. It doesn't bother me if I pay a HSC or tip myself, I know I will pay them anyway. In fact, last cruise, we did both, because some people had given service above and beyond.

 

Our country is known for being skinflints (sorry fellow Dutchmen). I've read accounts of people (before HSC) that would skip the last dinner and eat nothing, so as not to have to tip. I've read accounts of people reducing or removing the HSC. I've read accounts of people giving out empty envelopes or even tearing them up and leaving them on the bed to 'leave a message'. The list goes on and on. I've heard that the HSC has been instated to make sure most skinflint behavior doesn't come up - it's not a 100% guarantee, but apparently it's enough for the cruise line.

 

Tipping isn't in our culture much (due to people getting a living wage), but our family has always been different due to being in the hospitality industry. I know how a tip can make somebodies night and if they made mine, why wouldn't I return the favor?

 

Why would it bother me that others make different choices? I'm so surprised that this subject is so heated here. We do what we do, which is tip, and tip generously, when staff deserves it. They can do what they want to do.

 

I see no harm in people asking questions about the HSC (can it be removed, should it be removed, what is it for, who gets what) as it's natural to be curious. Just answer and let them make up their own minds about what they want to do.

 

^^^ Exactly. And it doesn't matter how many times we try to enforce our opinion on others and tell them what is right and what is wrong (in our minds), people will do whatever. As long as we each do what we believe is right that's all we need to be concerned about. A quick answer was all that was required.