Cruise Passenger Assaulted on Holland America Cruise Ship

[sjn911]

While I'd like to be open to the idea that his turning himself in was a sign of remorse (and I believe that it is kind of you to think so), I don't think that is the case. It is a ship, isolated in the ocean, with a finite number of people aboard, and I suspect that he was the only one impaled by a corkscrew that night.

 

Had he been able to throw her overboard, I doubt that he would have confessed to anyone.

 

I know and understand your thoughts and emotions, it is so hard in this case given evidence discussed not completely all there for us but having a face too, wright or wrong, makes it doubly hard.....I was just trying to be fair...hard to give any understanding at all to go that far with rage period...

 

I do think there is rage that can happen form constant server positions and just an inherent stuck feeling with many so much wealthier..and in end we are all the same...and something really bothers me about how the comment if said could be misconstrued and the last straw after all day of not so gracious thank yous often...

 

And thanks for discussion Artist 47 that may have been deleted too.

 

And I do understand needs to delete some and am sure not easy or necessarily a put down to any individual here..I had some great "anthologies" LOL to make a point...

 

Godspeed all..good awareness tips..good travel alone refreshers here...

 

I am one for noise makers so original door banging help could be for that and then more help could be called for...something that is loud and pulses sound so someone could hear the hell going on around it. Some people will never be physical fighters to the top degree and that does not make them any weaker....just different strengths..any of which could keep one alive..it is a crap shoot.

Edited February 22, 2014 by sjn911

[swedish weave]

I don't want to sound like I am diminishing the brutality that occurred, but the odds against anything like that happening are astronomical. Think of the thousands of people who cruise every year and complete their cruises safe and happy.

 

Please don't let paranoia take over and ruin your cruising experiences.

[richard1s]

I don't want to sound like I am diminishing the brutality that occurred, but the odds against anything like that happening are astronomical. Think of the thousands of people who cruise every year and complete their cruises safe and happy.

 

Please don't let paranoia take over and ruin your cruising experiences.

 

You are no doubt correct, but I am also pretty sure that most people believe the same thing until they are the victim of a crime. How many times have you heard - "we never thought that this could happen to us, you always believe that it happens to someone else."

 

I don't think paranoia is necessary, but taking prudent precautions cannot hurt. Locking egresses, being aware of your surroundings and, when travelling, being extra careful are always very important. When you travel is when your guard is down most.

[sjn911]

You are no doubt correct, but I am also pretty sure that most people believe the same thing until they are the victim of a crime. How many times have you heard - "we never thought that this could happen to us, you always believe that it happens to someone else."

 

I don't think paranoia is necessary, but taking prudent precautions cannot hurt. Locking egresses, being aware of your surroundings and, when travelling, being extra careful are always very important. When you travel is when your guard is down most.

 

This is true...in order to have just a little awareness..unfortunately..one has to run through the possibilities and if one has travelled alone as a female, young female especially, it is more the off guard and naive someone that is being looked for. But age and beauty is certainly not always the issue at all in who is chosen. And the percentages of rape or unwanted pressured confrontations are much higher than one would want to believe...I am not saying to live in fear..but they are much higher than one would want to believe...and the same on ships as anywhere else..with the same fear and shame tactics invloved. And a rapist, because it is a power and control thing, not a sexual pleasure thing, often escalates over time to a murder attempt thing.

 

A good awareness is to study the increase of these crimes on college campuses..and again this is a power and control thing, the perp feeling powerless on inside way deep...a time when ones confidence, abilities, and morals, patience and coping skills, and humanity all are really tested at higher degrees for the first time.

Edited February 23, 2014 by sjn911

[richard1s]

This is true...in order to have just a little awareness..unfortunately..one has to run through the possibilities and if one has travelled alone as a female, young female especially, it is more the off guard and naive someone that is being looked for. But age and beauty is certainly not always the issue at all in who is chosen. And the percentages of rape or unwanted pressured confrontations are much higher than one would want to believe...I am not saying to live in fear..but they are much higher than one would want to believe...and the same on ships as anywhere else..with the same fear and shame tactics invloved. And a rapist, because it is a power and control thing, not a sexual pleasure thing, often escalates over time to a murder attempt thing.

 

A good awareness is to study the increase of these crimes on college campuses..and again this is a power and control thing, the perp feeling powerless on inside way deep...a time when ones confidence, abilities, and morals, patience and coping skills, and humanity all are really tested at higher degrees for the first time.

 

The statistics of sexual violence against women are mind-boggling; it is so disturbing and even harder to comprehend what is going on in some other cultures around the world.

 

When I travel with my wife, sometimes you can lose track of things if you are on a bit of a hot streak in the casino or whatever else you are caught up into at the moment - but her safety comes first and I will always escort her to the cabin. I just don't think it is worth the risk to simply assume anything close to "it can't happen to me".

[kendon]

This assault had nothing to do ( as it seems) with the nude cruise charter. However with so many cultures and nationalities working on board cruise ships. '" The Nude " thing can offend some in their religious believe´s I suppose. I don´t think it is very wise of the cruise lines to have those " Nude- Cruises" . ( I don´t see the point anyway. Uah)

 

I am the furthest thing from being a prude, but I totally agree with your comment. There are plenty of charter yachts out there for this purpose. On mainstream cruise lines, the crew base is very diverse and can be easily offended. I was on a cruise occupied by 500 Chumley Bears...basically large and hairy gay men. I didn't know this was a group cruise until weeks before the cruise, but I can tell you that quite a number of the crew were understandably uncomfortable. I am NOT homophobic, so don't even go there. But respect goes both ways.

[sjn911]

The statistics of sexual violence against women are mind-boggling; it is so disturbing and even harder to comprehend what is going on in some other cultures around the world.

 

When I travel with my wife, sometimes you can lose track of things if you are on a bit of a hot streak in the casino or whatever else you are caught up into at the moment - but her safety comes first and I will always escort her to the cabin. I just don't think it is worth the risk to simply assume anything close to "it can't happen to me".

 

Thanks so much for your kind words and awareness...:).

Thinking fondly of future and past travels and good thoughts for everyone's joy.....And especially....that some people and men are very aware lifts the burden for us all.

 

On a smaller scale..there is same sex rape of men, and women to men but that is much more rare...

 

There is so much work too..on really globally doing something respectful and loving towards understanding, support, kindness and making life a little better for all...and human respect amoungst sexes and those with less..a hand up..drops in the bucket of kindness do go far.

 

Your words are elegant..I know some men react because they just don't know what to say or can't believe it is that bad..good men working hard for and with their families..

 

Just thanks again...Sarah

Edited February 23, 2014 by sjn911

[runnergirl71]

The statistics of sexual violence against women are mind-boggling; it is so disturbing and even harder to comprehend what is going on in some other cultures around the world.

 

 

 

When I travel with my wife, sometimes you can lose track of things if you are on a bit of a hot streak in the casino or whatever else you are caught up into at the moment - but her safety comes first and I will always escort her to the cabin. I just don't think it is worth the risk to simply assume anything close to "it can't happen to me".

 

 

You are awesome!!! Thank you for being!!

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Forums

[alreadypacked]

What I've been reminding myself is that this same risk has always been there, but now I'll be more aware and cautious. I've never been careful about locking the balcony door at night; now, I will be.

 

If you've never read Gavin de Becker's book, The Gift of Fear, I highly recommend it, especially if you travel alone.

 

Excellent book!

 

I read it probably almost 20 years ago and have recommended it to many of my friends over the years. It talks about things you may never have thought of that could save your life.

 

See it here:

 

http://www.amazon.com/Other-Survival-Signals-Protect-Violence/dp/0440508835/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1393121686&sr=1-1&keywords=the+gift+of+fear

[celebrity]

This is very upsetting. My heart and prayers go out to the victim. May she recover completely from her physical and emotional trauma.

Kudos to HAL for being upfront about the situation. I know I would not be able to enjoy myself after hearing the news had I been onboard.

I find it odd that there haven't been any posts from passengers on this sailing.

Did I miss something?

[saltshell]

I am stunned.

I travel solo out of necessity and always feel that a cruise keeps me from being socially isolated on vacation. I really don't want to spend my life looking over my shoulder. I do try to be alert. I can only hope that some co-cruiser will be willing to "watch my back" as I will them.

The term running amok comes from the indo-malay culture.

This is painful to me not only for the victim; her life is changed, but also for the cruise staff who will have to live this down. Losing face is an important construct in their world. I wish us all peace.

[richard1s]

This is very upsetting. My heart and prayers go out to the victim. . I know I would not be able to enjoy myself after hearing the news had I been onboard.

 

You raise an interesting point.

 

Several years ago, we were on the NCL Dawn out of NYC to Bermuda. A poor soul slipped overboard foolishly trying to climb to her friend's cabin next door from the adjacent balcony. We were only a few hours out of NY - it was pitch black and the ship was in very heavy seas. The crew searched for hours with spotlights and rescue craft in huge, cold, black waves. Eventually the search was turned over to the Coast Guard and the mother of 2 was never found.

 

For us, and many we engaged on the voyage, it brought a pronounced sadness that was always present. Watching the rescue operation from our balcony made us think of the horrible fate and lonely death the girl experienced.

 

Everything on that cruise was very subdued - the casino, the shows, the bars. It felt like no one could have a good time because of what happened. Some of the crew we spoke to, who had served many contracts, said that nothing like that had ever happened to them before. And for us, we couldn't wait to get off that ship and come home.

[richard1s]

Thanks so much for your kind words and awareness...:)Just thanks again...Sarah

 

Thank you the kind words and thoughful message Sarah.

[z80yyz]

The statistics of sexual violence against women are mind-boggling; it is so disturbing and even harder to comprehend what is going on in some other cultures around the world.

 

 

Before painting the rest of world with a brush, consider the statistics from the US : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_in_the_United_States

 

Here in Fl so far this winter there has been a person shot in a theatre for texting (during the previews) and a teenager shot for playing loud music in their car.

 

Violence is violence, it can and does happen anywhere, by all nationalities even in what some like to think of as civilized countries.

 

gerrit, wintering in Fl

[richard1s]

Before painting the rest of world with a brush, consider the statistics from the US : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rape_in_the_United_States

 

Here in Fl so far this winter there has been a person shot in a theatre for texting (during the previews) and a teenager shot for playing loud music in their car.

 

Violence is violence, it can and does happen anywhere, by all nationalities even in what some like to think of as civilized countries.

 

gerrit, wintering in Fl

 

Kindly give me a break - I am making a simple point. Actually 2 points if you read it carefully. I am not trying to condense the problems of the world into a 2 sentence post on a cruise website.

[fud2468]

I probably don't belong on here (not yet having sailed on HAL but hope to) but have a couple of thoughts. Pardon me if deleted posts have already covered these points.

One thing to remember (anywhere) is not to snub anyone; don't treat crew as being inferior. On our cruises we've often had friendlier encounters with crew rather than with other passengers.

Being prudent and circumspect is not the same as paranoia.

For example, driving defensively is necessary because you don't know if the other guy is texting, or otherwise impaired.

Finally, it seems to me that just choosing an inside cabin makes more sense than erecting barricades, etc. plus less chance of either falling or being thrown overboard that way!

Ray Mac.

[Host Walt]

Regarding removal of some posts, please refer to the Community Posting Guidelines to which all members agreed to comply when registering on Cruise Critic.

 

Also, as I've explained before in this thread, many of the specific details of the incident are not yet available to the general public. Accordingly posts that contained unsupported speculations about the motivations and/or actions of the identified suspect, whom some on these boards remember from cruises taken on HAL, were removed.

 

Posts discussing general personal safety issues and other discussions that are on topic with the initial post have remained in the thread.

 

Thanks to everyone for showing restraint in your posts about this very disturbing event.

[COLLEYBERRY]

" While we have found them to be lovely people, all you have to do is turn on the TV to see some of the stuff that happens in those countries. There is a huge difference in culture, religion and laws between those countries and the west."

 

 

..... Ahhh....have you notice some of the "stuff that happens" in the West. We have no cause to be smug. This crime was committed by an individual...not a culture, not a religion, and most certainly not a race.

 

"However, this reminds me of stories I read about Rhodesia when the white minority was being replaced by the African majority. Household employees and field hands who had seemed to be almost part of the family showed up at their employers homes armed with guns and knives and a whole different attitude."

 

 

Gee I wonder what on earth could have made them so upset.:rolleyes:

Sometimes we suffer from racism and don't even know it.

Edited February 23, 2014 by Host Walt
Fix quote marking

[Mitwif]

Excellent book!

 

I read it probably almost 20 years ago and have recommended it to many of my friends over the years. It talks about things you may never have thought of that could save your life.

 

See it here:

 

http://www.amazon.com/Other-Survival-Signals-Protect-Violence/dp/0440508835/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1393121686&sr=1-1&keywords=the+gift+of+fear

 

 

Thank you for the recommendation and the link. I sometimes travel solo on business, and stay on my guard at all times. I will find these suggestions very helpful.

[runnergirl71]

Thank you for the recommendation and the link. I sometimes travel solo on business, and stay on my guard at all times. I will find these suggestions very helpful.

 

 

For sure, thanks! I got it today at Barnes & Noble and am reading it now in advance of other books on my list. And I'm being reassured to think back and know that I have trusted my gut on other occasions, so I know that I can do it.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Forums

[Oceanwench]

New information in today's Sun-Sentinel, lead story on front page.

 

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/local/crime/fl-cruise-rape-hearing-20140225,0,4115062.story

[OCruisers]

New information in today's Sun-Sentinel, lead story on front page.

 

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/local/crime/fl-cruise-rape-hearing-20140225,0,4115062.story

 

Thanks very much for posting this. It's a good recap of what happen and has the latest information on court plans for the accused.

 

LuLu

[mafig]

Thanks for posting this. The report of the passenger staying with the victim warms my heart.:)

[BeagleOne]

Wow, just wow. I hope that man goes to jail for a long, long time. If an ER doc with 40 years of experience had never seen such a bad attack, that is really saying something. How sweet of the passenger to stay with the lady while she was evacuated, and good for the passengers who heard her screams and tried to help. I hope she can make a full recovery...both physically and emotionally.

[whogo]

New information in today's Sun-Sentinel, lead story on front page.

 

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/local/crime/fl-cruise-rape-hearing-20140225,0,4115062.story

"'He was the one who turned himself in [to authorities],' Doakes [public defender] told the judge, suggesting Pujayasa may have just snapped in response to one incident. 'He does not appear to be a continuing danger to the community.'"

 

"Pujayasa, naked from the waist down, was caught on security camera surveillance video jumping from balcony to balcony along the exterior of the ship. He then ran through an occupied stateroom and made it back to staff quarters, where he told his roommate that he had "almost killed" a passenger, agents said.

 

"He then showered — in his blood-covered T-shirt — in an attempt to wash away evidence, but soon agreed that his roommate should call ship security and he immediately confessed, agents said."

 

 

Interesting. The story says he told his roommate he had almost killed a passenger and showered in his blood covered T-shirt, but the roommate did not call security until the accused agreed.