How do I prevent unauthorized entry to my room on Princess?

[birdiebill]

On a just completed Panama Canal partial transit on the Coral Princess, I had gone for a walk while my wife was showering. We had the "do not disturb" sign in the slot; the steward always left us alone when it was present. I came back from my walk, removed the DND from the slot, put my key card in the key slot, and I could not get in. Unknown to me my wife had used the deadbolt, had finished dressing and was out on the balcony. She could not hear me pounding on the door because she had closed the balcony door. The ship was underway and she was enjoying the fresh air. I asked our steward, with whom we had become well acquainted why my key card was not working. He informed me it was because the deadbolt had been locked. I assured him my wife did not mind if I entered even if she was not dressed. He used his room key card, and it unlocked the door in spite of the deadbolt. I was grateful and my wife was chagrined that she had finished showering and dressing and had left the deadbolt locked.

Edited March 5, 2014 by birdiebill

[floridarob]

I just want to make a comment to the several of you that think there is a special key needed to over ride the deadbolt. Posts from other members prove that is NOT correct. Please read the following threads and decide if you need to re-think your personal safety concerns or not, but that keyhole below the card slot has not been in use since 2006.

 

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1949124

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=458198

 

This is an example of why I hesitate to post anything on these boards.

 

Look at my avatar, I was a night supervisor at the front desk for Princess. I had occasion to have to use the "metal key" as it is referred to.

 

At least the grand class ships (I only worked this class) use a Vingcard Classic door locking mechanism.

 

This comes from the Vingcard operating guide:

 

a metal

emergency key (EMK) key operates the cylinder and overrides the deadbolt. If the

deadbolt is thrown, turn the key 360 degrees to retract the deadbolt, then turn an

additional 120 degrees to retract the latch. Only a metal EMK key can extend a

deadbolt from outside a room.

 

I've worked in hotels where the deadbolt is attached to the electronic portion of the lock, but in my experience Vingcard (older models, which Princess uses vs RFID newer type) deadbolts are usually mechanically operated.

 

But, maybe I'm wrong....

Edited March 5, 2014 by floridarob

[cherylandtk]

Rob, I have no doubt you stated your experience as it happened to you. I also have no doubt that the two posters in the threads I listed as well as birdiebill immediately above are also being truthful about what they experienced. You can go on forever saying these things did not happen on your watch. But they are happening now to more than one passenger.

[bhopal21]

This is an example of why I hesitate to post anything on these boards.

 

Look at my avatar, I was a night supervisor at the front desk for Princess. I had occasion to have to use the "metal key" as it is referred to.

 

At least the grand class ships (I only worked this class) use a Vingcard Classic door locking mechanism.

 

This comes from the Vingcard operating guide:

 

a metal

emergency key (EMK) key operates the cylinder and overrides the deadbolt. If the

deadbolt is thrown, turn the key 360 degrees to retract the deadbolt, then turn an

additional 120 degrees to retract the latch. Only a metal EMK key can extend a

deadbolt from outside a room.

 

I've worked in hotels where the deadbolt is attached to the electronic portion of the lock, but in my experience Vingcard (older models, which Princess uses vs RFID newer type) deadbolts are usually mechanically operated.

 

But, maybe I'm wrong....

 

You're not wrong Rob.

 

Mike:)

[floridarob]

Don't know what makes me reply again, but after reading those threads mentioned above my head hurts.... we know guests ALWAYS remember putting the deadbolt on or not forgetting ANYTHING and being sure that their stateroom steward stole something, or have other desires to get in the room and seeing them naked, ***?

 

Here are the comments from those threads that make sense... I know what I posted, cut & pasted from VingCard (The door lock manufacturer) operating instructions must be wrong, but at least these few posters KNOW what they were talking about.

 

Not to make anyone feel bad, but we all read some posts here and think to ourselves.... these people haven't a clue, and I usually do well by just ignoring them. But for some reason since I am a nerd and totally get the workings of various hotel door locks, this bothers me, lol

 

I even messaged some senior officers on Facebook to confirm my beliefs, I've been off ships for almost 4 yrs. (but cruise regularly as a pax, 50th Princess cruise coming next month) They confirmed that the "Metal key" opens a door with the deadbolt on.

 

 

Here's the knowledgeable posts:

 

Originally Posted by EdmPair View Post

I work the lock trade and this thread describes something well outside the design for hotel function locks. I have read all 4 pages to be clear and I see it as unacceptable that a cabin attendant would open a door when the deadbolt is engaged. (My comments are based on typical model function but since the world is a big place, it can not speak to all brands. And yet, the two cruises I have been on used hotel type locks I have seen in local buildings.) The idea from the lock makers was that each passenger would get a key or two which have an expiry date/time. If you snuck back onto the same ship the next day, your key will be dead automatically. The staff cards will not expire but are collected when they leave the ship and could be disabled if lost. Housekeeping staff are given a key card for an area but how much of the ship any one card can open would depend on how it is programmed. A housekeeping supervisor could open any cabin. Usually, these two levels would not override a deadbolt. Remember any card use is recorded and can be traced in an audit.

 

Senior managers and security could open any cabin in an emergency even if the deadbolt is thrown. I want to correct a few people who think the attendant can tell the deadbolt is pulled back by any card. The card use does not make any different noise just an unauthorized card can not open the deadbolt. Security has a key too but those are even less used than a master card. The idea of needing a large number to sweep the ship in an emergency sounds plausible on one level, but if you think of any event when that is needed, it is plausible staff would run to a station to get a visibility vest or coloured hat or such. It is in those locations such cards could be handed out. I too have seen the photos of staff during the Costa Concordia sinking and they all had vests. A fire sweep of cabins would be after general alarm and again new uniforms would be used.

 

Working in the trade, giving all cabin staff a maser key to every cabin and the ability to override the deadbolt, is just too many people. You can maintain security better in a smaller group and this seems a 'big hammer solution to put in a thumb tack.' I will ask Princess of it next time I sail.

 

AND

 

At the major chain hotel I work at we have only one emergency key that will override a deadbolt. The housekeepers have no access to this key, only management and is only ever used in an extreme emergencies.

__________________

[Colo Cruiser]

Thanks for posting again, I know you are correct too.

[OCruisers]

All I know is on a Princess Cruise I went up to bathe and dress for dinner and DH told me he would be back at the cabin in about an hour so I locked the deadbolt.

He decided to come back earlier and could not get in. He saw our room steward and ask him to unlock the door. The room steward told him that he was not able to do it with his when the deadbolt was locked but could call someone who could in an urgent situation.

DH told him "No Problem" and went back to the bar. :D

LuLu

~~~

[24639]

I was on the Grand last summer and our steward was able to override the deadbolt. I came back to the cabin and my son was in the shower with the deadbolt engaged. Our guy was right there to let me in, no problem.

[rgmacm]

This can be quite disturbing as I've always considered the deadbolt to be 'secure'. Of course, it DOES secure you from other pax and that's good, but it would be nice to know that when you retire for the evening, that you don't have to worry about someone just walking into your cabin.

Airlines have managed to come up with a VERY SIMPLE way of letting passengers know when a restroom is occupied...those little switches that say 'vacant' or 'occupied'. They are only operated from the inside so pranksters can't change or 'borrow' them. Why couldn't cruise ships install something similar? 'occupied' or 'please service'....or whatever.... ?? Then there would be NO NO NO!! excuse for a steward to enter a room where the occupants did not want them to enter.

[cr8tiv1]

I understand this is a Princess ship thread, but thought I would also add my 2 cents. I was on a Carnival ship when my cabin mate used the dead bolt when she took a nap. Being hard of hearing, she did not hear me pounding on the door or the ringing of the phone. I asked my steward to let me in. He could not. I went up to the purser's desk to let them know of the situation. I was told to wait by the cabin and someone would be down.

 

It was a very scary situation for me. I am glad she was just napping. But what if...

[antsp]

The short answer is if someone REALLY wants to come in your cabin, they can. The balcony key is a giant hex wrench that can be bought at home depot.com. But 99.999999 percent of staff do not want to unless related to their job.

 

The vast majority of accidental intrusions are due either to the steward missing a DND sign, the DND sign not being put out, or someone playing a prank and moving or flipping the DND sign. These can be scary and/or embarrassing, but not typically dangerous.

 

There is one huge difference between land and sea facilities. Even if someone does access your cabin for nefarious purposes, once done, they have no where to go! The halls are video monitored, etc. On land its out the door and gone. This is a very strong deterrent to most malicious acts, especially by crew who are fully aware of the limitations.

 

The provided deadbolt and balcony locks will provide the necessary security in pretty much every feasible scenario. Anything else is primarily for piece of mind, but wont make a substantive contribution to safety.

 

This falls under the same scenarios as airline crashes, Concordia/Triumph disasters, etc. They happen, and its not a bad idea to have a mental plan for what to do if it does happen, and maybe take a reasonable precaution or two (like always having a flashlight in your gear bag - or a door stopper). But they also should not be something to fear...

 

There is no cctv in passenger corridors.

[caribill]

Airlines have managed to come up with a VERY SIMPLE way of letting passengers know when a restroom is occupied...those little switches that say 'vacant' or 'occupied'. They are only operated from the inside so pranksters can't change or 'borrow' them.

 

On some airplanes the vacant/occupied sign is part of the locking switch and can be manipulated from the outside.

 

Just as on a cruise ship, plane staff may need to get into the bathroom in case of emergency and can do so.

 

I have also seen flight attendants change (from the outside) the sign from vacant to occupied so they could keep passengers out and keep that rest room for their own personal use during the flight.

Edited March 6, 2014 by caribill

[Wehwalt]

On some airplanes the vacant/occupied sign is part of the locking switch and can be manipulated from the outside.

 

Just as on a cruise ship, plane staff may need to get into the bathroom in case of emergency and can do so.

 

I have also seen flight attendants change (from the outside) the sign from vacant to occupied so they could keep passengers out and keep that rest room for their own personal use during the flight.

 

After the attempted shoe bombing a few years ago, or one of the similar alerts, they were walking in on passengers that took too long. That did not continue long, at least in the media.

 

I've never seen them "reserve" it, and I wonder if they would be that blatant in an era of cell phone cameras. I have seen them lock it for take off/landing.

[Loonbeam]

Yes there is, although I am not sure of coverage levels or if all ships have them. I've seen the feeds.

 

There is no cctv in passenger corridors.

[rpcv77]

As a former flight attendant, I can confirm that everyone single lavatory on every type of aircraft that my airline flew, could be opened from the outside even when locked. It takes a bit more effort than simply removing a DND card but with the right tool can be done in just a few seconds.

[Colo Cruiser]

Airlines have managed to come up with a VERY SIMPLE way of letting passengers know when a restroom is occupied...those little switches that say 'vacant' or 'occupied'. They are only operated from the inside so pranksters can't change or 'borrow' them. Why couldn't cruise ships install something similar?

 

 

Actually an airline lav can be opened very easily from the outside if its locked by anyone.

Edited March 6, 2014 by Colo Cruiser

[Colo Cruiser]

There is no cctv in passenger corridors.

 

Correcto mundo.

[antsp]

I am not sure about the above post, but I can assure you there is no cctv in the corridors of passenger cabins.

[Loonbeam]

I personally saw tape of a corridor on one of the ships with pax moving, at least 30 mins of it. I don't know which ship. Vantage point was from near the ceiling, outside what looked like entrance to elevator banks.

 

Pilot program perhaps, but something was in the works. It would make sense in terms of not only general security, but emergency response or muster drill.

 

 

 

 

I am not sure about the above post, but I can assure you there is no cctv in the corridors of passenger cabins.

[Colo Cruiser]

I personally saw tape of a corridor on one of the ships with pax moving, at least 30 mins of it. I don't know which ship. Vantage point was from near the ceiling, outside what looked like entrance to elevator banks.

 

Pilot program perhaps, but something was in the works. It would make sense in terms of not only general security, but emergency response or muster drill.

 

 

You are probably right about it being near elevators.

Where did you review 30 minutes of security video?

[rpcv77]

Actually an airline lav can be opened very easily from the outside if its locked by anyone.

 

Yes, quite true. I won't mention what flight attendants use to open it but it would be quite easy to use any number of things to do so!

[Loonbeam]

I used to work for one of their contractors (cannot say which one). Was dealing with other business but it was on a monitor near where I was working at one point. Different group was discussing it, not involved with us.

 

 

You are probably right about it being near elevators.

Where did you review 30 minutes of security video?

[antsp]

I used to work for one of their contractors (cannot say which one). Was dealing with other business but it was on a monitor near where I was working at one point. Different group was discussing it, not involved with us.

 

there are camera at the elevators but not in corridors

[Loonbeam]

The angle was definitely from outside the elevator area. Like I said, its possible they were just testing or considering them as an option, but I really thought they were in wider use. Will have to keep an eye out on the Royal in October to see if I can spot anything.

 

there are camera at the elevators but not in corridors

[Colo Cruiser]

The angle was definitely from outside the elevator area. Like I said, its possible they were just testing or considering them as an option, but I really thought they were in wider use. Will have to keep an eye out on the Royal in October to see if I can spot anything.

 

Being a brand new ship you may well see many more CCTV cameras on the Royal/Regal then you would see on the current older ships.

Of course we are getting way off track here from the OP's original question.

Edited March 6, 2014 by Colo Cruiser