Service Charges on NCL

[Tutankhamen]

The decline in service, if true, has more to do with lack of supervision and general decline in employee morale and lower staffing levels, if true.

 

Morale is lower because the tip incentive is now gone. Most cruisers today believe the "service charge" is the tip and so they do not tip in addition.

 

I am advocating to pay employee and encourage tipping for service above and beyond.

 

Workers now know what they will make. They do not go above and beyond as they have no incentive.

[Tutankhamen]

 

And as for your statement that service has declined because of the auto tipping system how much further will it decline when it's part of their wages and passengers have no input at all?

 

Tipping. Encourage tipping. Have envelopes passed out to the guests. Crew is paid a wage, the incentive is the little envelope that I would be more then happy to stuff with bills for exceptional service, even after paying a higher base fare for wages.

[sparks1093]

Morale is lower because the tip incentive is now gone. Most cruisers today believe the "service charge" is the tip and so they do not tip in addition.

 

I am advocating to pay employee and encourage tipping for service above and beyond.

 

Workers now know what they will make. They do not go above and beyond as they have no incentive.

 

Tipping. Encourage tipping. Have envelopes passed out to the guests. Crew is paid a wage, the incentive is the little envelope that I would be more then happy to stuff with bills for exceptional service, even after paying a higher base fare for wages.

 

But if the crew is receiving a full salary who will tip? Very, very few people. And your statement "workers know what they make and they do not go above and beyond" is without merit- 1) job promotions are an incentive, 2) earning extra tips is an incentive, 3) being able to transfer to a nicer ship or line is an incentive, 4) their sense of pride is an incentive. Sheesh, NCL does say that you may tip those who you feel deserve it, same system you are advocating except they receive part of the service charge which they know they are getting instead of a salary which they know they are getting. At least now if you do receive inferior service you may adjust the service charge, something you wouldn't be able to do if they received a salary.

Edited April 8, 2014 by sparks1093

[SteveH2508]

It is actually a very stupid decision to cut bar staff.

 

Totally agree - on Independence of the Seas last year, RCCL lost a significant amount of revenue from us because we could not get a drink when we wanted one. Their loss - NCL's gain (our drinks bill is usually quite substantial!):eek:

 

NCL seemed to have fewer waiters in the bars than I remember on our last sailing as well.

[sjbdtz]

1. Not trying to insult you, but having contributed over $200,000 to NCL, what have they done to reward you? You've got what, Latitude Platinum? Complimentary one bag of laundry? Complimentary sparkling wine, not champagne??? :D

 

If your opinions mattered to a multinational you wouldn't need to post here ... on an internet forum. Do I need to list the number of multinational corporate bankruptcies that have occurred since you started cruising? If they all listened to their customers they'd still be around.

 

2. I'm posting here in response to a question from the OP, remember that guy :eek: I'm posting to ensure others like the OP know that different cruise lines call it Discretionary Service Charge and can be removed while other lines have made it a Service Charge which can't.

 

3. As for the $12/day I've said my piece. NCL and other lines should include all fees and include at time of booking/payment. They don't because the higher cost would drive away a certain group of customers - yes, the customers you people don't like who are going to take advantage of the option to reverse the DSC. But NCL needs them!

 

NCL should just make all their DSC documents on various worldwide websites consistent with the fact that you can not reverse the DSC unless the sky was falling. Until that happens I'm going to happily remind everyone of their option to reverse the DSC and not judge them on why - whether they find it expensive or whether they want the staff to earn their tips, etc.

 

My first cruise with NCL is coming up. I'm more loyal to Princess - at least with Princess Captain's Circle I get unlimited free laundry and lots of free internet time. Didn't know until I joined this lovely chat that NCL was the line that started the Daily Service Charge.

 

I disliked Princess very much, on my 22 day cruise with them. Didn't feel like the crew had earned the right to the same pay as their counterparts on NCL. In fact finished that 22 day cruise & immediately booked another NCL cruise (unplanned) just to see whether we'd gone off cruising altogether, or if it was just Princess (it was just Princess).

 

It amuses me, now that I know you've never even cruised with NCL, how vocal you've been about how they should run their business. By contrast, I've sailed 20 times, am a shareholder in the company (only 100 shares, but still), and advocate for the innovations they continue to make, to anybody who will listen. I think that the DSC as broken-out from the cruisefare makes perfect sense. NCL innovated a new way of dealing with the long-standing idea that crew recompense was not a component of the base fare. Other lines would provide envelopes and recommendations of the amount to disburse, to reward the crew. NCL automated the process, without changing the total amount of money (cost-structure), and in course managed to establish a system wherein poor service experiences are captured early and rectified.

 

The problem we see now, is that traditionalists want their old system back. Why? I'm not sure...but I conjecture that there's a power element lurking in their subconscious... the idea of wanting to see the look of obsequiousness and gratitude in the handing-over of the envelope appeals to some. It horrifies me.

 

So NCL established a policy wherein the DAILY service charge (only very recently renamed) would be mandatory, and would eliminate the need for any additional rewards - though these rewards would not be rejected, if proffered. And to accommodate those with an actual service issue, they made the DSC adjustable.

 

Then, some intrepid fellows realized that they could make-up issues, or just say they didn't want to discuss the issue, they just wanted to reduce the charge.

 

And then somebody posted on Cruise Critic, and acrimony resulted.

 

 

As for what I got for my $200k? 20 vacations, many in suites, to exotic locales, food, entertainment, laundry service, internet, shore excursions, and a lot of fun in the casino.

 

The OP matters little in a thread after the initial set of Yes/No/Maybe answers. The rest of the thread is a discussion. That's why they call it a discussion board. The OP doesn't own the thread.

 

NCL isn't really a multinational, in the true sense. They're a US company headquartered in Miami, which operates on a semi-global basis.

 

As for the corporations which have gone through bankruptcy, I remind you of a quote from Henry Ford (paraphrased here: "if I had asked prospective customers what they wanted, they'd have said 'faster horses' "

 

My job in sales is to illustrate to prospective customers things with which they aren't yet acquainted. I spend my days showing them new paradigms and contexts which they haven't previously considered.

 

 

 

Morale is lower because the tip incentive is now gone. Most cruisers today believe the "service charge" is the tip and so they do not tip in addition.

 

I am advocating to pay employee and encourage tipping for service above and beyond.

 

Workers now know what they will make. They do not go above and beyond as they have no incentive.

 

 

This is absurd. Do you tip your airline pilot so that he tries harder to avoid turbulence?

 

Do you tip your doctor so that they invest more time into diagnosing your illness?

 

Do you go & visit your local nuclear reactor and tip the operators as thanks for not forcing you to evacuate due to a meltdown?

 

These are all salaried positions (except for the pilot & the doctor....who work on hourly & piece-meal basis, respectively).

 

There is no tip-incentive for any of them...yet, you've traveled, you're not ill, and your reactor provides your electricity.

 

 

It's nonsense that people only work because they're motivated by tips. People are far more likely to be motivated by their own sense of accomplishment, coupled with a system of recompense which they feel justifies the investment in education, and experience which they've made.

 

I'm in sales. I do quite well in this role, and have had a career dating 25+ years. I'm motivated by reward, certainly....but not reward that I can't rely upon.

 

I'd have quit the job long ago if I had to perform it, and THEN my employer could decide whether or not to pay me. That's what tipping is, according to you. Do the job and then I'll assess whether you've earned any reward.

 

I'm far more in favor of something like the DSC which provides stable income for the crew, without compromising various other constructs belonging to the cruise-line (separation of revenue types, etc.). It works perfectly, as long as people stop trying to make it back into the old way of envelopes for everybody.

 

You get an envelope, and you get an envelope....the only beneficiaries of that process were the envelope manufacturers, and we're not talking about them....here.

 

 

 

Stephen

 

 

.

[biker@sea]

1. Not trying to insult you, but having contributed over $200,000 to NCL, what have they done to reward you? You've got what

 

He got the pleasure of meeting Me at the NCL M&G in the Star Bar on the Dawn !! :D

[sjbdtz]

He got the pleasure of meeting Me at the NCL M&G in the Star Bar on the Dawn !! :D

 

That too! ;)

 

 

 

.

[smeyer418]

"So NCL established a policy wherein the DAILY service charge (only very recently renamed) would be mandatory, and would eliminate the need for any additional rewards - though these rewards would not be rejected, if proffered. And to accommodate those with an actual service issue, they made the DSC adjustable. "

 

You know NCL did have it mandatory at one time. -except if you had an unresolved service complaint but I know that one thing happened to make them remove it and I think but am not sure something else happened too.

The first thing is they combined the NCL America and NCL non-US flagged website into one site. They had to use language that combined both. The second was someone complained to the Florida AG that NCL was adding a mandatory charge in violation of an agreement with the Florida AG or something along those lines like they never saw an add and didn't "know" about it or the type was to small so they changed the language.

 

and finally to Tut no one stops you from TIPPING over and above the minimum of $12. You can tip those who your highness deems worthy of you bestowing what ever knighthood the ruler of upper and lower Nile deems worthy to us peasants or is it pheasants(tweet tweet). There is no difference logically of adding it the fare and then tipping than have a mandatory service charge and then tipping for what you deem truly exceptionally service. Yes I know consistency is the hobgoblin of small minds.

Edited April 8, 2014 by smeyer418

[mjkacmom]

Tipping. Encourage tipping. Have envelopes passed out to the guests. Crew is paid a wage, the incentive is the little envelope that I would be more then happy to stuff with bills for exceptional service, even after paying a higher base fare for wages.

 

You know that there are other cruise lines out there that work the same way they did decades ago - higher fares, better service, more things included? Sure, they cost a lot more, but they are available.

 

Personally, I like the option of paying under $1000 pp for a balcony cabin, paying the $12 pp per day, and tipping when I feel the staff went over and above (or if I want more attention, like at the bar - I always tip on each drink, even with the UBP). I will pay to use the spa, for specialty coffees, for internet, for fitness classes, for some dinner shows - or, maybe I won't - it's up to me.

 

Mainstream cruiselines mimic old style cruising, but are certainly different. They make cruising a very affordable vacation! Back in the day (and on different lines), cruising was and is an expensive vacation.

[Irene7]

Here we go again. Another service charge thread. If you feel that 12 dollars pp is too much money then maybe you should just stick with Disney.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Forums mobile app

 

$4.00 a day on disney, my butt! On a 4 night cruise we were charged $192. for 4 people which is the same $12. a day on other lines. I have no idea where the OP got $4.00 from.

[Irene7]

I would rather pay the 12bucks than to pay what it costs to do a DCL trip. You could almost do an all inclusive for the price if a Disney. IMHO

 

DCL is also $12. a day.

[Irene7]

Just wondering, does Disney's $4 per day include everyone serving you or just the steward? NCL's $12 is for everyone, from stewards, to waiter, to busboys, to maitre'd, etc, etc, etc. Only people not included are butlers, concierge, kids' club staff (which should all be tipped by the persons who use them) and bar staff and spa staff (gratuities are added automatically for these services that are not used by everyone).

 

I'm going to avoid the whole Service Charge argument, I'm just tired of it, but I will say that service is VERY different on a 7 night cruise than on a CTN, and I don't think you will be disappointed...

 

Robin

 

They charge $12.pp a day and $4. a day of it goes to the cabin steward.

[Crusin6]

$4.00 a day on disney, my butt! On a 4 night cruise we were charged $192. for 4 people which is the same $12. a day on other lines. I have no idea where the OP got $4.00 from.

 

The person who posted $4 did not have his facts straight nor do enough research.

We all know he was comparing the wrong numbers though

[Out to sea!]

The argument that is not going away too soon !

 

Let's see - you pay $12.00 a day DSC and it covers tipping and gratuities every

where on the ship except your concierge butler and the restaurant maître d -

so what could be so wrong with that and if you NO like you can reduce the

DSC appropriately.

It sounds so simple that what could possibly go wrong ?

If you feel that that someone needs monetary consideration over and above

the standard provided by NCL well nothing prevents you from leaving that

compensation !

You feel an individual needs to be rebuked for inadequate service well the

system provides for that just talk to the folks at Guest Services. Please don't

do this on the last day of the voyage whether your cause/complaint is just or not !

If you wait to the last day you and NCL both come out as losers.

If you contact Guest Services on the last day there is not much that can be

done to correct the issue.

If you contact GS shortly after the sleight there is a window to work with to make it right.

It is not right to hold the entire crew hostage because of the one cruise person

not performing up to your expectations. So work out an arrangement with GS !

 

I still feel I would like to see the DSC included with the cruise fare !

Since it is condensing the entire bill into one flat rate with gratuities included

one would expect a zero balance to walk off the ship at the end of the voyage.

Extra tipping and gratuities shore excursions gift shop and duty free purchases

specialty dining beverages soft and alcoholic ground transfers are all optional.

Casinos omitted would not apply in any event

 

The only plus I see is if you cancel out on your cruise the DSC if separate from

the fare would be fully refundable. If inclusive then a partial of full refund

would be in order. But if travel insurance is bought the issue is mute either

way.

I like the idea of doing a simple walk-off at the end of the voyage owing nothing !

 

What about making the DSC a line item like taxes and port charges? I thought about it and if the base rate were just simply raised to cover the DSC, then one would pay higher taxes, effectively taxing the DSC. Also, if one has to cancel a cruise, I believe they still get back their port charges and taxes so they would get their DSC back as well. But if they go on the cruise, just like the port charges and taxes, it could not be removed.

[sjbdtz]

What about making the DSC a line item like taxes and port charges? I thought about it and if the base rate were just simply raised to cover the DSC, then one would pay higher taxes, effectively taxing the DSC. Also, if one has to cancel a cruise, I believe they still get back their port charges and taxes so they would get their DSC back as well. But if they go on the cruise, just like the port charges and taxes, it could not be removed.

 

 

Just curious, but do you want to prepay your DSC at the time you reach final payment - 3 months before the cruise?

 

There are some who won't prepay it 1 week in advance saying "why should I give my money to NCL now, when I can give it to them after the cruise, instead?"

 

 

 

That's one reason.... there are likely others.

 

 

.

[SteveH2508]

What about making the DSC a line item like taxes and port charges? I thought about it and if the base rate were just simply raised to cover the DSC, then one would pay higher taxes, effectively taxing the DSC. Also, if one has to cancel a cruise, I believe they still get back their port charges and taxes so they would get their DSC back as well. But if they go on the cruise, just like the port charges and taxes, it could not be removed.

 

Information

By default, when you book through NCL.UK, the DSC is automatically added to your original booking (albeit at a slightly lower rate - currently 7GBP pppd). However our cancellation/re-booking/price-drop conditions are significantly different (worse) from US pax.

 

The invoice does state that the Service Charge is required but later on it states that it can be adjusted in the event of a service problem not being fixed (my paraphrase).

 

Observation

Bottom line - the information from NCL varies between countries and between different places on their web-sites. The whole situation is a cluster**** as regards to terms and conditions. No wonder new cruisers are confused (and experienced cruisers;))

 

Opinion

Pay it - (either before or after) and get on with your life and vacation. Getting into a Business Studies dissertation on remuneration motivational techniques is just barmy over a comparatively small amount and a tried and tested system. It works for the crew - it works for NCL - why rock the boat? ('scuse the pun)

Edited April 8, 2014 by SteveH2508

[Out to sea!]

Just curious, but do you want to prepay your DSC at the time you reach final payment - 3 months before the cruise?

 

There are some who won't prepay it 1 week in advance saying "why should I give my money to NCL now, when I can give it to them after the cruise, instead?"

 

 

 

That's one reason.... there are likely others.

 

 

.

 

Currently, no, I do not prepay (no particular reason......how much interest can be earned on $168 with today's interest rates......even when you book 665 days out like my upcoming cruise). That said, I also never remove them for ANY reason (ie, the ship could sink and I would still not remove my DSC because the crew still provided me service up to the point of the sinking). I would not mind prepaying them with the port charges and taxes either, especially if it would keeps others from removing them.

Edited April 8, 2014 by Out to sea!

[Ewoodspark]

By default, when you book through NCL.UK, the DSC is automatically added to your original booking (albeit at a slightly lower rate - currently 7GBP pppd). However our cancellation/re-booking/price-drop conditions are significantly different (worse) from US pax.

 

Not always the case. When booking 6 weeks ago through a travel agent who made the booking into NCL. UK, I was asked if I wished to add the £7 pppn to the booking. You do get an option to pay up front only if you want to.

[SteveH2508]

Not always the case. When booking 6 weeks ago through a travel agent who made the booking into NCL. UK, I was asked if I wished to add the £7 pppn to the booking. You do get an option to pay up front only if you want to.

 

OK - fair one - maybe our PCC knows our preference so it is just done for us.

[Out to sea!]

Not always the case. When booking 6 weeks ago through a travel agent who made the booking into NCL. UK, I was asked if I wished to add the £7 pppn to the booking. You do get an option to pay up front only if you want to.

 

You get the option to pay up front in the US as well.

[Tutankhamen]

 

 

This is absurd.

 

Sorry, if you do not understand the motivational value of tipping, I really have no way to open your eyes. I guess we will have to agree to disagree. To me, it absurd to think that tips do not motivate people to go above and beyond. Frankly, I feel as though you are now saying anything to try and substantiate your argument. I think, in the real world, you would have an extremely hard time getting anyone to say that tips are not a motivation for good service.

 

Do you tip your airline pilot so that he tries harder to avoid turbulence?

Do I really need to answer that? Serious, if you are going to use examples, use examples that correlate with the argument at hand. Like bartender at the local watering hole. Or the waitress at the local steakhouse.

 

Do you tip your doctor so that they invest more time into diagnosing your illness?

See above.

 

Do you go & visit your local nuclear reactor and tip the operators as thanks for not forcing you to evacuate due to a meltdown?

See above.

 

These are all salaried positions (except for the pilot & the doctor....who work on hourly & piece-meal basis, respectively).

 

See above.

 

There is no tip-incentive for any of them...yet, you've traveled, you're not ill, and your reactor provides your electricity.

 

Yes, I understand that. But we are talking about service employees. Service employees that work directly with guests. A job that is very very very entry level at the bottom of the chain.

 

 

It's nonsense that people only work because they're motivated by tips.

Never said ONLY. I appreciate it if you do not put words in my mouth. We are discussing entry level, bottom of the ladder, undereducated servers, and maids.

 

People are far more likely to be motivated by their own sense of accomplishment, coupled with a system of recompense which they feel justifies the investment in education, and experience which they've made.

Obviously you have not been exposed much to the food/hotel service industry.

 

I'm in sales. I do quite well in this role, and have had a career dating 25+ years. I'm motivated by reward, certainly....but not reward that I can't rely upon.

 

I own my own company. So what? I have employees that are motivated by money. They are entry level hourly employees. I would go as far as to say, no more then 1 in 10 has the motivation to become anything other then a working drone. I wave cash bonuses around, and 9 out of 10 will go above and beyond to win the reward. The probability of them getting the quarterly challenge bonus, 5%. But 95% will work harder for that incentive, while knowing that their chance is only 5%. Well, most probably do not understand percentages, but you get the idea. 25 years of business is all the proof that I need that extra money is a big motivator with lower wage workers. You can say what you want about a Dr., Pilot., even the President or whomever, but you are way off base to say $'s is not a big motivator for low wage service employees. Here in the USA or from 3rd world countries. Done arguing the point that money is a motivation.

 

You get an envelope, and you get an envelope....the only beneficiaries of that process were the envelope manufacturers, and we're not talking about them....here.

 

Wow, with statements like this, I am now understanding my frustrations with our debate. Add in the lengthly posts and it is becoming more apparent that it is more then difficult to have an intellectual debate with you. Can you stick to the cliff notes version?

Edited April 9, 2014 by Tutankhamen

[Tutankhamen]

What about making the DSC a line item like taxes and port charges? I thought about it and if the base rate were just simply raised to cover the DSC, then one would pay higher taxes, effectively taxing the DSC. Also, if one has to cancel a cruise, I believe they still get back their port charges and taxes so they would get their DSC back as well. But if they go on the cruise, just like the port charges and taxes, it could not be removed.

 

Wow, now there is one of the first posts that I really have no argument for. It is a GREAT point, and wasn't something that I thought of. Adds some points to the argument that the current system is better then what I am suggesting. I am not saying I change my mind, but it is a good point and something to consider.

 

To bad we got others talking about the pilot who flew the plane. They do nothing to substantiate their argument.

 

That is what I am advocating. Add it to the bill that is presented when I make a reservation. Just like the taxes, just like the port charges. Right on the bill.

Edited April 9, 2014 by Tutankhamen

[sparks1093]

Wow, now there is one of the first posts that I really have no argument for. It is a GREAT point, and wasn't something that I thought of. Adds some points to the argument that the current system is better then what I am suggesting. I am not saying I change my mind, but it is a good point and something to consider.

 

To bad we got others talking about the pilot who flew the plane. They do nothing to substantiate their argument.

 

That is what I am advocating. Add it to the bill that is presented when I make a reservation. Just like the taxes, just like the port charges. Right on the bill.

 

As the system stands now the passenger is assessed a $12 service charge which can be adjusted if service is sub-par and the passenger is free to tip more if the service is above and beyond- so the passenger has a carrot (the possibility of a tip) and a stick (the possibility of losing money for sub-standard service).

 

As you propose it the $12 service charge would be rolled into the fare and passengers would be encouraged to tip if they feel the service warrants it- so the passenger has a carrot in the form of an extra tip but no stick.

 

Which system is going to motivate more employees to at least perform adequately? (And of course this is only part of the equation- the other two are 1) higher costs to the passenger other than the $12 per day and 2) the fact that most people aren't going to tip salaried workers.)

[Tutankhamen]

As the system stands now the passenger is assessed a $12 service charge which can be adjusted if service is sub-par and the passenger is free to tip more if the service is above and beyond- so the passenger has a carrot (the possibility of a tip) and a stick (the possibility of losing money for sub-standard service).

 

As you propose it the $12 service charge would be rolled into the fare and passengers would be encouraged to tip if they feel the service warrants it- so the passenger has a carrot in the form of an extra tip but no stick.

 

Which system is going to motivate more employees to at least perform adequately? (And of course this is only part of the equation- the other two are 1) higher costs to the passenger other than the $12 per day and 2) the fact that most people aren't going to tip salaried workers.)

 

As I have said, I want a higher priced cruise that includes fair wages for the service employees. Price out the clowns that are now cruising.

 

Many here have already said that guests remove service fee's. Pay them an hourly wage, not a salary. I do not remember ever suggesting giving them a salary. They are laborers. I stood in line at GS and heard quiet a few remove their service charge. That is built into the the $12 a day "service charge". The added cost to the cruise would probably not even be $12 a day. I will also add that here in the states tipping pools can not be used for workers such as dishwashers, cooks, chefs, and janitors according to the department of labor.

 

It is becoming more and more difficult to discuss this topic. You are saying that the $12 is a motivation and then you have others that say tips are not a motivation.

 

Pretty much time to give up the debate. We have exhausted all arguments.

 

Bottom line for me, Charge a little more for the cruise by adding it to the bill at time of reservation, just as they do with taxes and port charges. Encourage people to reward servers/maids that go above and beyond, just as we all do when we go out to eat here in the states, or to the person cutting our hair, the postal worker, the bartender at the local watering hole, doormen, maids, at the hotel, bellhops, taxi drivers, the guy at the box stores that load lumber into your vehicle, limo drivers and the like.

 

The cruise line already has a tip line on every check we get, even at the fee based restaurants.

Edited April 9, 2014 by Tutankhamen

[Ewoodspark]

Price out the clowns that are now cruising.

 

Speak for yourself pal. That is an insult to Co-Co

Edited April 9, 2014 by Ewoodspark