Service Charges on NCL

[Out to sea!]

Um, the language j-9 quotes and it's location is accurate for MyNCL on the US site also, FWIW. I had to go on MyNCL today and checked. Of course discretionary does not mean optional as many would interpret it. (And also for what it is worth discretionary is also included in the US guest ticket contract.)

 

Um, as I stated, I have yet to see anyone post a link to anything to verify their side of the story. I have, you can click on the link to check it's accuracy.

[SteveH2508]

Quoting NCL's various websites and documentation just highlights the inconsistencies therein.

 

Quote from the UK booking confirmation/invoice.

 

Service Charges:

On all NCL ships, payment of a fixed service charge is required. A fixed service charge of U.S. $12 per person, per day will be added to the on-board account of all guests over 3 years; there is no charge for children under the age of three.

Now to make things even easier, guests can choose to prepay their service charge here in the UK before they travel. This will be added to your holiday price at the time of booking and shown separately on the confirmation invoice. If you do not wish to pay it this way, you must tell us at the time of booking or at any time up to two weeks prior to departure and we will arrange for the charge to be added to your onboard account for payment at the end of the cruise.

 

NB no mention of discretion or any similar term.

 

Quote from NCL's UK booking conditions from their UK website

 

22. Fares, Service Charges & Extra Services

Services and goods provided during the holiday, service charge and any port or airport charges and taxes which are not included in the confirmed holiday price must be paid by you. Additionally, fares do not include travel insurance, drinks, hotel meals, shore excursions, UK regional flights (available at a supplement), personal expenses, cover charge at selected restaurants, any fuel supplement (Norwegian will continue to closely monitor global fuel prices to assess whether a fuel supplement will be necessary in the future – please see http://www.ncl.co.uk/fuel) & any other item not expressly included in the fare. Fares published are guideline prices, may be subject to change at any time and are subject to availability. Except where indicated, advertised fares are per person, based on double/twin occupancy and include relevant government fees and taxes in the amounts current and applicable at the time of publication.

 

We are confident that you will enjoy your Freestyle Cruising experience and that our entire crew will provide you with the standard of service for which we are known. A $12 discretionary service charge will be automatically added per guest per day (for guests three years and older) to your shipboard account for all staterooms unless pre-paid as set out below. This charge will be shared among those staff members, including restaurant staff, stateroom stewards and other behind-the-scenes staff who provide services that enhance your overall cruise experience.

 

The applicable service charge will be added to your booking at the time of confirmation (you will be advised of the then applicable amount per person per day, there is no charge for children under 3). This charge will be shown separately on your confirmation invoice and will be payable at the same time as the balance of the holiday cost. If you do not wish to pay your service charge in this way, you may ask for it to be removed from your confirmation at the time of booking or at any time up to 2 weeks prior to departure. If you do so, the service charge will be added to your shipboard account. If you cancel your booking before departure but after paying your service charge, the service charge will be refunded in full. Service charges may be subject to change.

 

If you have any concerns about the service you receive during your cruise, please let our Guest Services Desk staff know right away, so we can address any issues in a timely manner. In the unlikely event that we can’t resolve your issue, you can have the service charge adjusted on board unless this has been pre-paid. Where your service charge has been pre-paid before departure, refunds are not available onboard and you must apply for a refund, if applicable, after your return home by writing to our Guest Relations department.

 

Where services or goods are provided on board the ship, payment must be made before you disembark. Without prejudice to any lien over your goods, you agree that we shall be entitled to prevent any baggage or goods belonging to or travelling with you from leaving the ship until all sums owed to us by you have been paid in full.

 

My emphasis in red.

 

Bottom line - NCL is not consistent in their wording, so arguing semantics is futile. It is 'required' but it is 'discretionary' and adjustable for unresolved service issues. :confused:

 

Wording seems to differ from UK to EU to US to wherever else. This issue has no resolution until NCL comes out with completely consistent wordings across all documents/web-sites/T&Cs etc. (probably not possible due to different legal frameworks).

 

It ain't gonna happen any time soon.

[kylenyc]

Not inconsist. You are required to pay for a gallon of milk before you leave the grocery store. After you leave the register, you can immediately turn around and return to have your payment refunded.

 

Being required to pay for something doesn't mean you can't have it adjusted or refunded later.

 

In the UK, you are required to pay the service charge first. You can then have it adjusted at your discretion 0% to 100% because your satisfaction can be 0% to 100%

Edited April 19, 2014 by kylenyc

[Out to sea!]

Not inconsist. You are required to pay for a gallon of milk before you leave the grocery store. After you leave the register, you can immediately turn around and return to have your payment refunded.

 

Being required to pay for something doesn't mean you can't have it adjusted or refunded later.

 

In the UK, you are required to pay the service charge first. You can then have it adjusted at your discretion 0% to 100% because your satisfaction can be 0% to 100%

 

Poor analogy. How are you going to return 6 days and nights of service that have already been received when you adjust your DSC to 0% on the last night......hmmmmmmm??? :rolleyes:

Edited April 19, 2014 by Out to sea!

[kylenyc]

Out to sea!,

 

My analogy was specific to the fact that just because you are required to pay for something doesn't mean the payment can't be adjusted afterwards.

 

I don't see the wording to be inconsistent (see my preceding post) but I agree with you that some people use the fact that it's adjustable as an excuse or worse, try to convince other people that it's morally or ethically acceptable to adjust service charges for arbitrary reasons such as "my cabin was clean, i got fresh towels every day, my ice bucket was filled but my steward didn't drop what they were doing, run out of the other cabin they were cleaning, and up to me like a lap dog and say hello as soon as I stepped out of my cabin each morning :confused:)"

Edited April 19, 2014 by kylenyc

[aussie cruzer]

Interesting thread,

 

This is the Ncl Australia web site info.

 

http://www.norwegian***************.au/helpful-information/#cruise-fare

 

 

Service charge

 

 

We are confident that you’ll enjoy your Freestyle Cruising experience and that our entire crew will provide you with the standard of service for which Norwegian Cruise Line is known. An optional U.S. $ 12 discretionary service charge will be automatically added per guest per day (for guests three years and older) to the shipboard account for all staterooms. This charge will be shared among those staff members, including the restaurant staff, stateroom stewards and other behind the-scenes staff, who provide services that enhance your overall cruise experience. These service charges can be paid in advance of your cruise by contacting our reservations department. If you have any concerns about the service you receive during your cruise, please let our on-board reception desk staff know right away, so we can address any issues in a timely manner. In the unlikely event that we can’t resolve your issue, you can have the service charge adjusted on board. We do however kindly ask you to grant us an adequate time period in order to correct our services. Our clear priority is to have the opportunity to resolve your issue to your satisfaction as quickly as possible and that any necessary adjustments be made toward that goal. Where the service charge has been pre-paid before departure, refunds are not available on board and you must apply for a refund, if applicable, after your return home by writing to our Guest Relations Department in Germany. The refund application needs to include a complaint form which needs to be filled out on board during your cruise.

 

Gratuities

 

Unlike most other ships in the cruise industry, there is no required or recommended tipping on our ships for services that are generally rendered to all guests. Guests should not feel obligated to offer a gratuity for good service. However, all of our staff are encouraged to “go the extra mile”, and so they are permitted to accept cash gratuities entirely at the discretion of our guests who wish to acknowledge particular staff members for exceptional or outstanding service. In other words, there is genuinely no need to tip but you should feel free to do so if you have a desire to acknowledge particular individuals.

 

Also, certain staff positions provide service on an individual basis to only some guests (e.g. beverage services) and do not benefit from the overall service charge. We encourage those guests to acknowledge good service from these staff members with appropriate gratuities. For example, for guests purchasing bar drinks, the recommended gratuity of 15 % is automatically added to their final bill. Similarly, Pride of America has a service charge of 18 % for all spa and salon services and all other Norwegian Cruise Line ships have an automatic gratuity of 18 % for all spa and salon services.

 

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[kylenyc]

Arguing over whether the service charge is discretionary or not is an intentional distraction and waste of time IMO. They are red herrings. It's clearly discretionary.

 

The issue is whether or not it is morally or ethically justifiable to remove the service charge for arbitrary reasons. Having been in the service industry as a waiter, I'd guesstimate the overwhelming majority (90%) of people in the U.S. feel it is not acceptable. Many may not like the tipping and service charge system but we do it. Also in the end, it's a matter of the individual's personal values and beliefs.

 

Perhaps you can take that comfort that the cruise lines understand this and have factored this into their compensation plans. I've met many friendly hardworking crew on Norwegian ships and they wouldn't be there if there was no benefit to them to work under the service charge system.

 

I dare say they are happy because a vast majority of passengers leave the service charge in place and there are generous people who do choose to tip over and above it. They certainly don't do it for the 10%.

Edited April 19, 2014 by kylenyc

[swedish weave]

Some of you should notify Merriam-Webster that they have been so wrong for so long.

 

Related to DISCRETIONARY

Synonyms

optional, elective, voluntary

Antonyms

compulsory, mandatory, nonelective, nonvoluntary, obligatory, required

[Crusin6]

I have one relative and 2 friends working on NCL, any cash tips are required to be turned in to the general pool. If the service charge has been removed then the pool splits the gratuity. If it is left on and additional tips are given to specific employees they will get to keep those but they still must be turned in and then once the accounting is done they will get them.

 

Good to know this and I would assume that it is correct? So that must be why the steward on our last cruise looked surprised when I tipped him in addition to the dsc?

 

But why do the specialty waiters hover over you for the extra bucks then?

 

I always leave the dsc alone but I will not throw extra cash Into a " pool"

 

I tip extra in cash because I want that particular steward to have it. I don't want it to be shared with others as it is an extra and not the " required" dsc.

 

No more extra cash tips from us Makes things much easier.

[hpecorari]

Originally Posted by pieshops View Post

I have one relative and 2 friends working on NCL, any cash tips are required to be turned in to the general pool. If the service charge has been removed then the pool splits the gratuity. If it is left on and additional tips are given to specific employees they will get to keep those but they still must be turned in and then once the accounting is done they will get them.

 

 

I always leave the dsc alone but I will not throw extra cash Into a " pool"

 

I tip extra in cash because I want that particular steward to have it. I don't want it to be shared with others as it is an extra and not the " required" dsc.

 

No more extra cash tips from us Makes things much easier.

 

I don't know if you understood what was first said. IF you leave the DSC in place than ANY cash tips you leave for whomever you leave it for GETS to eventually keep it.

 

Harriet

Edited April 19, 2014 by hpecorari

[swedish weave]

Some of us have been cruising since before the DSC became a standard on most cruise lines. We used the envelopes and tipped those who served us. It seemed to be a workable system until we noticed that on the last night there were many empty seats in the dining rooms.

 

I did not like the DSC when it was first implemented, and refused to subscribe to it. I asked the service desk for a breakdown of the distribution of the "tip pool" and was furnished a list of who got what.

 

After a few more cruises, I got to know some of the crew pretty well, so asked some of them to level with me about the pool concept. They liked it and told me that the information the desk was putting out was accurate. They also liked the idea that it would help reduce the number of guests who stiffed them.

 

They convinced me, so I stopped bucking the new system and it became much simpler than trying to chase down the right people with envelopes.

 

I assume that some of the same people who disappeared on the last night of the cruise are the same who line up at the service desk with their real or imaginary issues in order to reduce or cancel the DSC.

 

If people are going to be cheap, they will find a way and all the arguments here won't change their stance.

 

At least, the crew will have a steadier source of income than with the old system unless the idea of cancelling the DSC spreads like some on these boards are trying to get done.

[Crusin6]

Originally Posted by pieshops View Post

I have one relative and 2 friends working on NCL, any cash tips are required to be turned in to the general pool. If the service charge has been removed then the pool splits the gratuity. If it is left on and additional tips are given to specific employees they will get to keep those but they still must be turned in and then once the accounting is done they will get them.

 

 

 

 

I don't know if you understood what was first said. IF you leave the DSC in place than ANY cash tips you leave for whomever you leave it for GETS to eventually keep it.

 

Harriet

 

I understood. I am not thrilled with the " third party" aspect to it. Don't trust it and never will

 

But now I feel more comfortable with just the dsc. which is the point anyway. Just leave the dsc alone and be done with it.

 

The ones that want to remove dsc. well that is another issue. As is the guilt felt by some if they don't get the warm and fuzzys by giving cash extra tip. Some pax need that. I guess.

[Host Star]

Some of us have been cruising since before the DSC became a standard on most cruise lines. We used the envelopes and tipped those who served us. It seemed to be a workable system until we noticed that on the last night there were many empty seats in the dining rooms.

 

I did not like the DSC when it was first implemented, and refused to subscribe to it. I asked the service desk for a breakdown of the distribution of the "tip pool" and was furnished a list of who got what.

 

After a few more cruises, I got to know some of the crew pretty well, so asked some of them to level with me about the pool concept. They liked it and told me that the information the desk was putting out was accurate. They also liked the idea that it would help reduce the number of guests who stiffed them.

 

They convinced me, so I stopped bucking the new system and it became much simpler than trying to chase down the right people with envelopes.

 

I assume that some of the same people who disappeared on the last night of the cruise are the same who line up at the service desk with their real or imaginary issues in order to reduce or cancel the DSC.

 

If people are going to be cheap, they will find a way and all the arguments here won't change their stance.

 

At least, the crew will have a steadier source of income than with the old system unless the idea of cancelling the DSC spreads like some on these boards are trying to get done.

I got the same response from several waiters on rci. They prefer the auto tipping or dsc (called gratuities on rci)and I also asked them if they were charged anything by the cruise line for handling their account and they said no. But they are entitled to keep any extra and not report it. Like if I leave an extra 5 or10 in my stateroom for the steward. Why should he have to turn it in. And besides there is no way to police the extras.

[Beaver1975]

I got the same response from several waiters on rci. They prefer the auto tipping or dsc (called gratuities on rci)and I also asked them if they were charged anything by the cruise line for handling their account and they said no. But they are entitled to keep any extra and not report it. Like if I leave an extra 5 or10 in my stateroom for the steward. Why should he have to turn it in. And besides there is no way to police the extras.

 

As has been said many times here, NCL has a system to police the extras as it pertains to people that reduce their DSC. RCI may follow suit in the future like they have many other things that NCL has pioneered.

[Love my butler]

I got the same response from several waiters on rci. They prefer the auto tipping or dsc (called gratuities on rci)and I also asked them if they were charged anything by the cruise line for handling their account and they said no. But they are entitled to keep any extra and not report it. Like if I leave an extra 5 or10 in my stateroom for the steward. Why should he have to turn it in. And besides there is no way to police the extras.

 

Similar system to NCL.

Edited April 20, 2014 by Love my butler

[Love my butler]

[quote name='Out to sea!']First of all, you take a factual statement and twist it. Stating that some website, somewhere (that you do not even provide the link to), says something is discretionary, does not make the DSC the "Discretionary Service Charge" as LMB is attempting to propagate in his/her tagline, therefore his/her tagline is false and yet he/she claims to want to spread the truth.

Here is the FAQ from the US website (which, as far as I am concerned, the only one that matters since this is a company based in the US) [URL]http://www.ncl.com/faq#service-charge[/URL] and you will not find the word "discretionary" in it.[/quote]

For the 100th time, NCL refers to it as 'discretionary service charge' in print on many papers delivered to your cabin onboard. I sailed three different NCL ships last month. They all referred to it as discretionary service charge, in print. NCL also refers to it as discretionary service charge in the online welcome aboard booklet. In my world, that is truth and indisputable proof it is indeed a discretionary service charge. Again, NCL words, not mine. You seem to just not want to admit defeat, but I understand. It's often hard to accept defeat.

[Beaver1975]

[quote name='Love my butler']Similar system to NCL.[/QUOTE]

Incorrect, as usual. SMH!

The crusade continues.

[don't-use-real-name]

I really wonder if it would not be TOO much trouble to have one FLAT rate charged (like ALL INCLUSIVE) from the fare to the DSC (whatever that is defined as)
to the Gratuities sort of like the airlines with the Federally mandated fares to include all taxes and fees.
Now to separate the apples from the oranges the extras like Unlimited Dinning/Beverages/Sodas and the Shore Excursions would be placed on a separate tier
so when you board the ship everything (I mean all the basics) are taken care of with no further payments fees concessions required !
The casinos would of course be an extreme option for obvious reasons !

This thread has gone on and on and I hope that it prospers and develops new thoughts and ideas about these DCS; gratuity & fees and that the PR folks
at the corporate office take a good long look how if they keep this up the only people that will be cruising will be lawyers looking for case to sue to the stupid
ambiguous language in the cruise contract.
Common on people it can't be that complicated !
Maybe time for the children of Disney to be on the Board of Directors having a better grasp of what is required and what is not !

Oopps my soap box got kicked off the gang plank - but keep up the vital communication on this topic !

[Out to sea!]

[quote name='Love my butler']For the 100th time, NCL refers to it as 'discretionary service charge' in print on many papers delivered to your cabin onboard. I sailed three different NCL ships last month. They all referred to it as discretionary service charge, in print. NCL also refers to it as discretionary service charge in the online welcome aboard booklet. In my world, that is truth and indisputable proof it is indeed a discretionary service charge. Again, NCL words, not mine. You seem to just not want to admit defeat, but I understand. It's often hard to accept defeat.[/QUOTE]

Can't accept "defeat" (as if advocating leaving the system in place so as to not screw over workers is a bad thing) when you don't prove anything (I sailed NCL in November and received no such papers in my cabin and your word that you actually received such papers is no proof). But, there is no use arguing anymore. There are cheap people out there and while I think they need to be turned over someone's knee for a good spanking, it's not my job.

[sjbdtz]

[quote=don't-use-real-name;42498226]I really wonder if it would not be TOO much trouble to have one FLAT rate charged (like ALL INCLUSIVE) from the fare to the DSC (whatever that is defined as)
to the Gratuities sort of like the airlines with the Federally mandated fares to include all taxes and fees.
Now to separate the apples from the oranges the extras like Unlimited Dinning/Beverages/Sodas and the Shore Excursions would be placed on a separate tier
so when you board the ship everything (I mean all the basics) are taken care of with no further payments fees concessions required !
[/quote]

Why should I be paying for dining, or beverages or sodas, when I don't consume those things? If you want soda, you pay for it, don't expect me to. After all, it's my money....I can spend it how I want.


[quote name='Love my butler']Well said. So long as the new cruisers understand this, that is all we can ask. Get the facts out and let each individual decide how they want to spend their money.

That is what upsets the cheerleaders so much, they don't want people to have the facts or know they have choices. If you don't spend your money the way THEY want you to, you are wrong.[/quote]


Fact #1: The monies derived from the Service Charge (discretionary, or daily, or whatever you want to call it) are NOT a 'tip'. The are the CORE of the crew's earnings (whether you agree with this structure or not, it IS the structure). Reducing or eliminating the DSC is NOT about deciding whether somebody pleased you. It's about whether people should be paid for doing their jobs. I do not KNOW the reasoning (other than ChengKP's description) of why cruise lines want to keep the bulk of the crew's wages out of the base fare, but for now...they do. Any uprising designed to apply pressure by going on 'DSC strike' would harm the crew far more than the cruise line.

Opinion #1: Leave the DSC in place, and as a result...have a properly compensated crew.



Stephen


.

[sjbdtz]

[quote name='Love my butler'][COLOR=Red][B]For the 100th time,[/B][/COLOR] NCL refers to it as 'discretionary service charge' in print on many papers delivered to your cabin onboard. I sailed three different NCL ships last month. They all referred to it as discretionary service charge, in print. NCL also refers to it as discretionary service charge in the online welcome aboard booklet. In my world, that is truth and indisputable proof it is indeed a discretionary service charge. Again, NCL words, not mine. You seem to just not want to admit defeat, but I understand. It's often hard to accept defeat.[/quote]


I do not believe this is the 100th time. Since we are ONLY dealing in facts, I believe this should be noted. ;)

I don't disagree that I've seen this called a Discretionary charge...I think that you misunderstand what discretionary means IN THIS CONTEXT. (yes, I know what Merriam-Webster says).

Which 3 ships did you cruise last month? I can only guess at the wealth of shipboard knowledge you must have available to share with newbies, yet the only posts I see from you are critiquing (sorry... being honest about) the DSC.

that's so unfortunate.



Stephen

. Edited April 20, 2014 by sjbdtz

[LMaxwell]

Most of these 23 pages is a total misreading of the policy and then covered up with opinions. The fact of the matter is as much as so many people love to bash on LMB, they are only providing objective fact and not advocating anyone do ANYTHING other than understand the facts and then make their own decisions. Whether I agree with the policy or how people choose to handle the policy is irrelevant, I advocate that people be given the basic facts and then left to choose for themselves.

And again, [B][I]in my opinion[/I][/B], it is a flawed system that causes theses sort of arguments. Does anyone really believe it operates just like NCL wants it to?

[luddite]

[quote name='OCMS Fan'] it should be of no concern to anyone else what-so-ever.[/quote]

Well, this is incorrect.
When people don't pay their bills it does impact everyone. And Service Charge is a bill. Which needs to be paid.

[swedish weave]

[quote name='LMaxwell']Most of these 23 pages is a total misreading of the policy and then covered up with opinions. The fact of the matter is as much as so many people love to bash on LMB, they are only providing objective fact and not advocating anyone do ANYTHING other than understand the facts and then make their own decisions. Whether I agree with the policy or how people choose to handle the policy is irrelevant, I advocate that people be given the basic facts and then left to choose for themselves.

And again, [B][I]in my opinion[/I][/B], it is a flawed system that causes theses sort of arguments. Does anyone really believe it operates just like NCL wants it to?[/QUOTE]

The system will work as designed. The problem is people who purposely misinterpret the guidelines to serve their own agendas.

This system provides an avenue for those with complaints to have corrections made while on the ship if possible, and if correction cannot be made, then they are justified in reducing the DSC.

However, people wait until the last day when it is not possible for the crew to resolve the issues. That is a blatant attempt to save a few dollars at the expense of the crew.

It can be called cheap, cheating, or any other terms, but it is what it is.

The sad thing about the posts on this forum is that if you post anything positive, you are called "cheerleader", but the forum rules don't allow postiive people to respond in like kind and call those negative people what they really are !!!!

Perhaps the term "cheerleader" should be handled under the name calling rules. Edited April 20, 2014 by swedish weave

[sjbdtz]

[quote name='LMaxwell']I advocate that people be given the basic facts and then left to choose for themselves.
[/quote]

The problem is that the full facts are unknown to those of us not employed as crew.

And advocates for the 'basic facts' always seem to leave out the notion that this is not 'supplemental' income, but is the basic pay of the crew. This is how they make their income....it's not a reward system if they made you happy.

In many hotels, I've found the sheets tucked in. It didn't make my happy enough to hand money to the room attendant, but luckily that person is paid a full salary (well, minimum wage or better) to perform their job.

On a cruiseship, the crew are not. They are provided a very base amount (I've heard often in the range of $50 / month as salary), plus a variable 'incentive' amount which is their share of the DSC. Combined, these things make their income attractive.

Take out one of the elements, and the income is no longer attractive.


Conclusion: DSC helps properly compensate crew. Removing DSC does the opposite.


.