b2b?

[smurf1635]

Hi, we just got off of the Sunshine this week. While on the ship, we mentioned that we really wanted to do the Carnival Splendor, NY to San Juan and San Juan to Miami. Was told there is a law that prevents us from doing that particular back to back cruise. Can someone enlighten me, please?

 

Robin

[SadieN]

It would be a violation of the PVSA: Passenger Vessel Services Act.

 

Only US flagged ships can transport pax between to US ports without going to a distant foreign port.

 

The Jones Act states the same for freight.

 

We encountered the same issue for the Conquest last November. Also the first of the season Alaska cruises can have the same issue.

Edited April 19, 2014 by SadieN

[seeing this world]

it has to do with a law from many years ago.. to protect the economy of the USA.. i wish i could explain it more but it confuses even me...

 

 

but i know that there is a fine involved for the cruise ship and it gets passed down to the customer, You being the customer would have to pay for it. So the cruise line protects you and themselves and prevents it.

 

You have to be off the ship for 24 hours to reboard it to do the type of cruise you want. Since the ship leaves the same day it makes your impossible.

 

i am sure someone will come in and explain it better

[Kamloops50]

The PVSA came into law to protect American passenger that carried passengers between Hawaii and California . The law also happens to apply to Alaska and PR unintentionally. The Jones act has to do with freight and sailors work conditions on American Flagged ships. There all freight and oil that travels between the west coast , Alaska and Hawaii has to be on American flagged ships.This also applies to Puerto Rica as well.

[okgirl]

The PVSA came into law to protect American passenger that carried passengers between Hawaii and California . The law also happens to apply to Alaska and PR unintentionally. The Jones act has to do with freight and sailors work conditions on American Flagged ships. There all freight and oil that travels between the west coast , Alaska and Hawaii has to be on American flagged ships.This also applies to Puerto Rica as well.

 

Fortunately next year when the Triumph does those 2 special sailings from Galveston to SJ, then SJ back to Galveston for a total of 21 days it can be done as a B2B because both legs include calls at a distant foreign port.

[sewut]

Fortunately next year when the Triumph does those 2 special sailings from Galveston to SJ, then SJ back to Galveston for a total of 21 days it can be done as a B2B because both legs include calls at a distant foreign port.

 

Not so, we tried it and they told us it violated the Jones Act. We had one leg booked and were trying to book the other and we couldn't. We called Carnival and that's what we were told. He got a supervisor to cancel the leg that we had already booked without penalty, though.

[chengkp75]

Not so, we tried it and they told us it violated the Jones Act. We had one leg booked and were trying to book the other and we couldn't. We called Carnival and that's what we were told. He got a supervisor to cancel the leg that we had already booked without penalty, though.

 

I don't see where there is any violation of the PVSA, whether or not a distant foreign port was called at or not. Each leg is allowed by PVSA, since transport between Puerto Rico and the mainland US is exempted from the PVSA requirements. Put together, they form a closed loop cruise to/from Galveston, and only need to call at a foreign port, not a distant foreign port.

[crzndeb]

Not so, we tried it and they told us it violated the Jones Act. We had one leg booked and were trying to book the other and we couldn't. We called Carnival and that's what we were told. He got a supervisor to cancel the leg that we had already booked without penalty, though.

 

100% agree with Chengkp75.....again, this goes to show how clueless the Carnival reps are on this law. They can't even call it by the correct name.

 

Call again and keep going up the chain of command until you get somebody that knows exactly what the Passenger Vessel Service Act entails.

 

There are already RollCalls for both of these sailings, which many have booked without issue. In fact, after I make my final payment this month on my Legend to Australia cruise, I plan on booking the Oct/Nov B2B.

 

Good luck...

Edited May 8, 2014 by crzndeb

[christmas]

Not so, we tried it and they told us it violated the Jones Act. We had one leg booked and were trying to book the other and we couldn't. We called Carnival and that's what we were told. He got a supervisor to cancel the leg that we had already booked without penalty, though.

 

Sounds like you had got a bad Carnival rep. That is not correct you can do a B2B. MOST people are doing a B2B on these sailings.

[Kamloops50]

I haven't looked the cruises. They be correct if doesn't do far foreign port like Aruba the leg from. SJ return.

 

Sent from my Transformer TF101 using Forums mobile app

[Kamloops50]

If you look closely at the cruise from SJ to Galveston , it doesn't go to a far foreign port . Antigua isn't considered a far foreign port . From Galveston to SJ it stop in Aruba. If you tried to do a B2B from Galveston . The SJ to Galveston is contravention of the PVSA Act (Jones Act).

[christmas]

If you look closely at the cruise from SJ to Galveston , it doesn't go to a far foreign port . Antigua isn't considered a far foreign port . From Galveston to SJ it stop in Aruba. If you tried to do a B2B from Galveston . The SJ to Galveston is contravention of the PVSA Act (Jones Act).

 

John Heald has confirmed that doing a B2B does NOT violate the PVSA Act.

[prattmom]

If you look closely at the cruise from SJ to Galveston , it doesn't go to a far foreign port . Antigua isn't considered a far foreign port . From Galveston to SJ it stop in Aruba. If you tried to do a B2B from Galveston . The SJ to Galveston is contravention of the PVSA Act (Jones Act).

 

How so if you return to the same port you left from?

 

 

Sent using the Cruise Critic forums app

[chengkp75]

If you look closely at the cruise from SJ to Galveston , it doesn't go to a far foreign port . Antigua isn't considered a far foreign port . From Galveston to SJ it stop in Aruba. If you tried to do a B2B from Galveston . The SJ to Galveston is contravention of the PVSA Act (Jones Act).

 

Again, you are missing the fine distinction that transportation between Puerto Rico and the mainland US is exempt from PVSA restrictions. This is specifically stated in the PVSA as such, until such time as a viable US flag passenger service from PR to the US is available. No such service exists. Each separate leg is considered transportation to or from PR. Do you think Carnival could advertise and sell the PR to Galveston cruise if it violated the PVSA? Further, as mentioned on many of the other threads on PVSA, multiple consecutive cruises on the same ship are considered to be one cruise for PVSA purposes, so joining the two legs together forms a closed loop cruise from Galveston.

[Cushing985]

Again, you are missing the fine distinction that transportation between Puerto Rico and the mainland US is exempt from PVSA restrictions. This is specifically stated in the PVSA as such, until such time as a viable US flag passenger service from PR to the US is available. No such service exists. Each separate leg is considered transportation to or from PR. Do you think Carnival could advertise and sell the PR to Galveston cruise if it violated the PVSA? Further, as mentioned on many of the other threads on PVSA, multiple consecutive cruises on the same ship are considered to be one cruise for PVSA purposes, so joining the two legs together forms a closed loop cruise from Galveston.

 

What he said! With his maritime experience I would take his word for it. Call Carnival again!

Edited May 9, 2014 by Cushing985

[chengkp75]

The PVSA came into law to protect American passenger that carried passengers between Hawaii and California . The law also happens to apply to Alaska and PR unintentionally. The Jones act has to do with freight and sailors work conditions on American Flagged ships. There all freight and oil that travels between the west coast , Alaska and Hawaii has to be on American flagged ships.This also applies to Puerto Rica as well.

 

To be completely accurate, the Jones Act restricts ALL coastwise trade to US flag ships. Meaning that cargo cannot be picked up in NYC and unloaded in Houston on a foreign flag ship. So all seaborne traffic between the EC, WC, and Gulf Coasts is limited to US ships.

 

Not sure where the idea that PVSA was originally intended to cover passengers between California and Hawaii came from, since the PVSA was enacted in 1886, and Hawaii did not become a territory of the US until 1898.

[chengkp75]

Hi, we just got off of the Sunshine this week. While on the ship, we mentioned that we really wanted to do the Carnival Splendor, NY to San Juan and San Juan to Miami. Was told there is a law that prevents us from doing that particular back to back cruise. Can someone enlighten me, please?

 

Robin

 

Getting back to the OP's problem, while each of the two cruises are legal as they are transportation to/from Puerto Rico, PVSA considers consecutive cruises on the same ship to be one continuous cruise, so you now have what is known as an "open jaw" cruise from NY to Miami, and that is not allowed by the PVSA, unless the cruise includes a call at a "distant" foreign port, the closest of which are the ABC islands (Aruba, Bonaire, or Curacao). If there was a possibility of changing ships in San Juan, then the two cruises would be legal.

[caribill]

Fortunately next year when the Triumph does those 2 special sailings from Galveston to SJ, then SJ back to Galveston for a total of 21 days it can be done as a B2B because both legs include calls at a distant foreign port.

 

It can also be done even if there was no distant foreign port involved. It is considered a "closed loop" cruise which starts and ends in the same USA port (Galveston).

[belkin]

I would like to book the last Alaska cruise on the Legend for 2017 and then the Hawaii cruise that immediately follows it.

 

After reading this post it doesn't look like I can. Chengkp75 can you confirm this for me?

 

9/5/17 Alaska cruise starts in Seattle and ends in Vancouver.

 

9/12/17 Hawaii cruise starts in Vancouver and ends in Hawaii.

 

Looks like a no because it starts in one us port and ends in another without calling on a distant foreign port??

[Kamloops50]

I would like to book the last Alaska cruise on the Legend for 2017 and then the Hawaii cruise that immediately follows it.

 

After reading this post it doesn't look like I can. Chengkp75 can you confirm this for me?

 

9/5/17 Alaska cruise starts in Seattle and ends in Vancouver.

 

9/12/17 Hawaii cruise starts in Vancouver and ends in Hawaii.

 

Looks like a no because it starts in one us port and ends in another without calling on a distant foreign port??

 

This wouldn't be allowed under the PVSA . Vancouver isn't considered at distant foreign port. Cruises that return to Seattle from Seattle stop in Victoria . Victoria is considered a foreign port according to the PVSA.

Edited March 17, 2016 by Kamloops50

[riclop]

This wouldn't be allowed under the PVSA . Vancouver isn't considered at distant foreign port. Cruises that return to Seattle from Seattle stop in Victoria . Victoria is considered a foreign port according to the PVSA.

 

This is 2 years old.

[evandbob]

It can also be done even if there was no distant foreign port involved. It is considered a "closed loop" cruise which starts and ends in the same USA port (Galveston).

 

I was on the Glory out of Miami to San Juan Journey 10 day cruise and continued B2B from San Juan 11 days to Miami.

 

Over 500 B2Bers had their passports out in San Juan so Customs could check. They were 2 separate cruises, not one closed loop cruise. A new S&S card was issued even if someone had the same cabin.

 

This Glory 21 day Journey was not a closed loop cruise even though the 1st cruise started in Miami and the 2nd cruise ended in Miami.

[crzndeb]

I would like to book the last Alaska cruise on the Legend for 2017 and then the Hawaii cruise that immediately follows it.

 

After reading this post it doesn't look like I can. Chengkp75 can you confirm this for me?

 

9/5/17 Alaska cruise starts in Seattle and ends in Vancouver.

 

9/12/17 Hawaii cruise starts in Vancouver and ends in Hawaii.

 

Looks like a no because it starts in one us port and ends in another without calling on a distant foreign port??

 

Nope, not allowed under he PVSA. However, you can go on different cruise lines. Is there another line going to Alaska close to the dates and back before the Carnival cruise leaves for Hawaii? Even if you had to stay in Vancouver a couple of days before the Hawaii cruise, it would be worth it. Vancouver is beautiful.

[belkin]

Nope, not allowed under he PVSA. However, you can go on different cruise lines. Is there another line going to Alaska close to the dates and back before the Carnival cruise leaves for Hawaii? Even if you had to stay in Vancouver a couple of days before the Hawaii cruise, it would be worth it. Vancouver is beautiful.

 

I guess I could consider another line for Alaska or maybe just drop it all together. We did go there in 2012 just thought it would be nice to combine the two.

 

One of the reasons I wanted to do this Hawaiian cruise was because it left from Vancouver and we have never been there.

 

Thanks for the advice.

[crzndeb]

I guess I could consider another line for Alaska or maybe just drop it all together. We did go there in 2012 just thought it would be nice to combine the two.

 

One of the reasons I wanted to do this Hawaiian cruise was because it left from Vancouver and we have never been there.

 

Thanks for the advice.

 

Or do like I did when the Spirit relocated to Australia in 2012...I boarded in Seattle and did Alaska, then Hawaii, and onto Sydney. This is legal since it ends in Sydney. Trip of a lifetime for sure.

Edited March 17, 2016 by crzndeb