Aussie based cruise tipping

[Cruise_me_Crazy]

:eek: I am amazed & embarrassed at that FB list. No wonder Aussies have such a bad reputation.

 

We will be getting a drinks package with our next cruise. See how good our service is....;)

[GUT2407]

:eek: I am amazed & embarrassed at that FB list. No wonder Aussies have such a bad reputation.

 

We will be getting a drinks package with our next cruise. See how good our service is....;)

 

 

What do you mean, a bad reputation as tippers?

[Beanb41]

Nor are we.

I do take umbrage at the fact that low paid cruising staff are the fault of passengers and if we don't pay the gratuities it is our fault that these workers may get less money than they should. Perhaps the low paid workers need to stand up for themselves because if one looks at the total cruise industry there are thousands of them. Imagine if they all downed tools, I bet the pay rates would change PDQ, but we are dealing with an American system which compounds the problem by allowing employers to get away with it. On my upcoming cruise I have taken advantage of no gratuities so I wonder if the staff still will still get paid or is the company going to stiff them.

I take similar umbrage when I am accused of exploitation because I buy a suit in Thailand which was probably made in a sweatshop. I just wish those who complain the loudest actually did something and let me get on with my life. By the way one reason I go to Thailand is to get cheap goods and I don't care.

[Cruise_me_Crazy]

What do you mean, a bad reputation as tippers?

 

Yes. The expectation is that we WON'T tip. I think it is unfair as we do if we get great service, but not just for ordinary service. ;)

 

We had a chat to our dining room staff, and I can say that this particular fellow has been with princess for 8 years, (8 contracts. 9 months on 3 months off). He spoke about the amount of years he put in to get a job with them as they pay so much more than a 5 star hotel in his home country. Plus uniforms food n chances to see different places. It was his career goal to work with them due to dollars to be earned. Competition for work is tough and they insist on a minimum of 2 years 5 star experience before employment with them.

[GUT2407]

Yes. The expectation is that we WON'T tip. I think it is unfair as we do if we get great service, but not just for ordinary service. ;)

 

We had a chat to our dining room staff, and I can say that this particular fellow has been with princess for 8 years, (8 contracts. 9 months on 3 months off). He spoke about the amount of years he put in to get a job with them as they pay so much more than a 5 star hotel in his home country. Plus uniforms food n chances to see different places. It was his career goal to work with them due to dollars to be earned. Competition for work is tough and they insist on a minimum of 2 years 5 star experience before employment with them.

 

Nor of course are the POMs the Kiwis or the Canadians n fact it seems that the only ones that are really bg on tipping is the Yanks.

[OzKiwiJJ]

Nor of course are the POMs the Kiwis or the Canadians n fact it seems that the only ones that are really bg on tipping is the Yanks.

 

Which just comes down to the fact that American service staff are poorly paid so tipping is essential, whereas Australian, Kiwi, UK and (presumably) Canadian service staff are paid a decent wage.

 

Many Australians just don't understand the US wage/tipping situation which is why they don't tip.

 

However I have seen a number of US people on other CC threads who claim to always removed the autotips on their cruises. :eek:

 

I think the way the Australian based cruise lines build the tips into the fare is very sensible given our culture of minimal tipping. I've also noticed this being done on European river cruises and luxury train trips booked from Australia.

[woodyren]

Nor of course are the POMs the Kiwis or the Canadians n fact it seems that the only ones that are really bg on tipping is the Yanks.

 

Believe it or not but in a response to a post in another thread in which I mentioned that where I came from did not have a "tipping culture" I was taken to task(in a nice way) by a poster from Florida on what I meant.

 

They had a large number of cruises on their signature so appeared to be well travelled. I explained why tipping other than occasional nominal amounts was not widely practiced in Australia and many other countries. I made reference to minimum wage, penalty rates etc (they asked me to then explain what penalty rates were). After a few posts on the subject they thanked me saying they had no idea about this and just tipped everyone the way they would tip in the States.

[GUT2407]

Believe it or not but in a response to a post in another thread in which I mentioned that where I came from did not have a "tipping culture" I was taken to task(in a nice way) by a poster from Florida on what I meant.

 

They had a large number of cruises on their signature so appeared to be well travelled. I explained why tipping other than occasional nominal amounts was not widely practiced in Australia and many other countries. I made reference to minimum wage, penalty rates etc (they asked me to then explain what penalty rates were). After a few posts on the subject they thanked me saying they had no idea about this and just tipped everyone the way they would tip in the States.

 

 

I believe it.

 

I have a number of American friends and they get a real culture shock when they move here but most quickly loose the urge to tip 20%.

[OzKiwiJJ]

they had no idea about this and just tipped everyone the way they would tip in the States.

 

And unfortunately that is setting a precedence in some countries, especially in Asia, who never used to expect tips in the past. They are getting so used to Americans tipping in a manner we would consider very generous and start expecting that sort of tip from all tourists.

 

I always try to do research into local tipping customs before I travel but even that has let me down at time. The latest Lonely Planet guide declared that tipping was not expected in India. Not true, it was fairly obvious after a day or so that tips were expected in many more situations than we would expect here in Australia.

Edited August 10, 2014 by OzKiwiJJ

[Cruise_me_Crazy]

Nor of course are the POMs the Kiwis or the Canadians n fact it seems that the only ones that are really bg on tipping is the Yanks.

 

I agree. And overall they seem far more high maintenance in their expectations so they have created their own monster IMO. :)

[Flipper133]

I believe that the term "tipping" has become confused.

 

I my opinion there are three aspects of the definition:

 

1. CWE...Crew Wages Enhancement: The payment added to your daily bill..including children..which in OZ is now mainly (and correctly) included in the cruise fare

 

2. Genuine Tip: a Discretionary amount paid to a waiter/service person for outstanding work..over and above...which many of us have experienced.

 

3. The Bribe: This is the one I hate! Often offered by Americans... and I have seen it quoted on these forums... a payment in advance to ensure better service. I cringed once when I heard it said that it was good practice to "offer the strong handshake"

 

This topic of course will endure forever... just maybe the real meaning can be better defined.

 

cheers

Edited August 10, 2014 by Flipper133

[OzKiwiJJ]

Nicely put, Flipper.

[Cruise_me_Crazy]

Yup Flipper. #3. Is the monster I was referring to. Nothing gets done without a firm handshake. :mad: not what I think tipping is.

[The_Big_M]

OK NOW FOR THE MAIN POINT OF THIS POST

 

I just found this ad on facebook from a large Aussie web agency. The xxx's blank out their name.

 

" ROYAL CARIBBEAN - xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

BUY 1 GET 1 FOR UP TO 50 % OFF + SUPER FAMILY DEALS

7 Nights 1st Person $1049 - 2nd Person $525 or Family of 2 Adults and 2 Kids only $2019. WANT IT EVEN CHEAPER????

These prices include gratutites of $11.50 per day. They are optional, so take them off for an even LOWER price"

 

No wonder many Aussies might remove them if this is how TA's advise them?

 

Fully agree with you. But they're trying to sell to the cheapest, not concerned about staff remuneration.

 

Sad that you say it actually came from a cruising specialist. Guess they're just looking for more $$$ for themselves.

[woodyren]

Yup Flipper. #3. Is the monster I was referring to. Nothing gets done without a firm handshake. :mad: not what I think tipping is.

 

Totally agree.

 

That is why the best solution for me is to stick to the auto tips. Staff still get a fair deal and if they are not then they will I am sure bring it the cruise lines notice.

 

Passengers receive service on an equal basis.

 

Performance of crew will be handled by management and evaluated by observation and passenger evaluations and not influenced in their service levels by how much $$$ some people are greasing the wheel with. In saying that I have not experienced poor service even though I on principle do not tip above the suggested gratuity.

 

This might influence cruise lines elsewhere to go the way that some of the Australian based lines operate.

 

I don't understand why the service industry can't operate under the same conditions as any other employment sector anywhere in this day and age.

Edited August 10, 2014 by woodyren

[woodyren]

The add I posted is back up in facebook in it's original form and the company has justified it by saying they need to compete on price so are showing people how they can get the lowest price. By removing tips.

 

They did this in a reply on facebook. They are telling people in their posts that other cruise lines don't charge tips without giving them the full picture on how the staff on these lines have had their base wages raised accordingly and the tips built into the cruise fare.

 

A big web based company who specialises and makes their money out of the cruise industry. Sorry I cant name them on here but I think they JUST sell CRUISES in Australia.

[Lanwood]

I believe that the term "tipping" has become confused.

 

I my opinion there are three aspects of the definition:

 

1. CWE...Crew Wages Enhancement: The payment added to your daily bill..including children..which in OZ is now mainly (and correctly) included in the cruise fare

 

2. Genuine Tip: a Discretionary amount paid to a waiter/service person for outstanding work..over and above...which many of us have experienced.

 

3. The Bribe: This is the one I hate! Often offered by Americans... and I have seen it quoted on these forums... a payment in advance to ensure better service. I cringed once when I heard it said that it was good practice to "offer the strong handshake"

 

This topic of course will endure forever... just maybe the real meaning can be better defined.

 

cheers

 

Good set of definitions...

 

Yeah - I've noticed the #3 option around some of the main forums as well from time to time. Have to admit a few cringes at my end also. If it makes them feel like their getting a better holiday for doing so, I'm not going to take that from them. If it works for them, then great. But as you described, it sounds like a bribe in advance to me.

[OzKiwiJJ]

The add I posted is back up in facebook in it's original form and the company has justified it by saying they need to compete on price so are showing people how they can get the lowest price. By removing tips.

 

They did this in a reply on facebook. They are telling people in their posts that other cruise lines don't charge tips without giving them the full picture on how the staff on these lines have had their base wages raised accordingly and the tips built into the cruise fare.

 

A big web based company who specialises and makes their money out of the cruise industry. Sorry I cant name them on here but I think they JUST sell CRUISES in Australia.

 

There is some very sneaky wording on that Facebook post:

"Royal Caribbean - 7 Nights - 2 Adults + 2 Kids from $2019 or pay just $1699 if you dont' wish to pay Gratuities up front!!!"

 

To me this says that if I paid $2019 it would include all the gratuities prepaid before my cruise, which would actually suit me.

 

However if I pay $1699 my gratuities are not prepaid so I would have to be prepared for Royal Caribbean to add them as autotips during the cruise - and I'll bet that TA does not clearly spell that out to its customers, it's probably buried in the very, very fine print. ;)

[The_Big_M]

Still surprised at their disingenuousness.

 

We'll see if anything changes...

[woodyren]

Still surprised at their disingenuousness.

 

We'll see if anything changes...

 

As I said the add this morning again said as it did on my first post,

 

These prices include gratutites of $11.50 per day. They are optional, so take them off for an even LOWER price

 

Note they can't even spell the word.

 

Yesterday after I gave them a serve they changed to What OzKiwi posted.

 

"Royal Caribbean - 7 Nights - 2 Adults + 2 Kids from $2019 or pay just $1699 if you dont' wish to pay Gratuities up front!!!"

 

I then posted thanking them for rewording the add.

 

The first occasion tells people clearly that they do not have to pay them at all. In fact it is almost encouraging people to take them off.

 

The second is more leaning towards paying on board rather than up front.

 

After the first reappeared this morning I wrote an other lengthy reply telling them that they should be explaining to their clients why these tips are in place etc.

 

The result is that I can no longer see the add or any evidence of my replies on my facebook page. I think they have "unfriended me" or whatever it is called.

[The_Big_M]

As I said the add this morning again said as it did on my first post,

 

Yes, I was referring to if anything changes subsequently.

[GUT2407]

I believe that the term "tipping" has become confused.

 

I my opinion there are three aspects of the definition:

 

1. CWE...Crew Wages Enhancement: The payment added to your daily bill..including children..which in OZ is now mainly (and correctly) included in the cruise fare

 

2. Genuine Tip: a Discretionary amount paid to a waiter/service person for outstanding work..over and above...which many of us have experienced.

 

3. The Bribe: This is the one I hate! Often offered by Americans... and I have seen it quoted on these forums... a payment in advance to ensure better service. I cringed once when I heard it said that it was good practice to "offer the strong handshake"

 

This topic of course will endure forever... just maybe the real meaning can be better defined.

 

cheers

 

 

I have no problem with tip type #2, except when the staff appear to expect it. And I note that in some industries in Aus, particularly restaurants it is heading that way.

 

#3 I find highly offensive and if as a staff member I was offered this type of tip I would be offended as well.

 

#1 is the one that really worries me, can you imagine if say Woolworths said there is an extra 15% on your bill to pay our staff.

[The_Big_M]

#1 is the one that really worries me, can you imagine if say Woolworths said there is an extra 15% on your bill to pay our staff.

 

A bit like airlines charging fuel supplements.

[OzKiwiJJ]

 

#1 is the one that really worries me, can you imagine if say Woolworths said there is an extra 15% on your bill to pay our staff.

 

The supermarkets got around that one by putting in self-checkouts ;)

[Beanb41]

I have no problem with tip type #2, except when the staff appear to expect it. And I note that in some industries in Aus, particularly restaurants it is heading that way.

 

#3 I find highly offensive and if as a staff member I was offered this type of tip I would be offended as well.

 

#1 is the one that really worries me, can you imagine if say Woolworths said there is an extra 15% on your bill to pay our staff.

 

2: I agree that the USA bad habits are creeping around the world.

3. If I was a concientious worker and somebody wanted to pay me extra before I had even started it - Thank you very very much. It is just like a deposit and a bribe. But thank you

1. Supermarkets do it all the time. They inflate some prices and deflate others (loss leaders). They include wages as part of doing business. GST is a govt tip up front and we all pay it.