Elderly parents at home and insurance coverage

[Lisichka]

So I had purchased travel insurance the same day I purchased my cruise. Something kept nagging at me and prompted me to check on the coverage if (heaven forbid) one of my parents died while I am on my cruise and I need to go home (my Dad has diabetes). What I found is interesting to say the least. While most insurance companies will cover if a relative dies while you are away, they will NOT cover it if there was a way to foresee a possibility of them dying. For example, a parent who has been ill or diagnosed with some disease/heart condition/diabetes, etc...if they then die while you are away, you are NOT covered. A waiver of pre-existing conditions has nothing to do with relatives staying at home, so getting that will not help you either (pre-existing conditions only apply to the people traveling).

 

There is only ONE insurance company that will cover a death of an already ill or elderly family member who is not cruising with you, and that is Travel Guard. They are the only ones who say death is ALWAYS unforeseeable, and as such will cover any death of an immediate family member, no matter how sick they are already prior to you taking out insurance.

 

Now, if you were to call your insurance company, many will say all they need is a death certificate as proof and you will be covered. Please know this is NOT TRUE if the person already has a diagnosis of some sort before you take out insurance. Part of the evaluation of a claim is getting a doctor's certificate or statement that certifies this death was in no way foreseeable and not due to a prior diagnosed illness that has gotten worse.

 

Just a head's up, as my search found a lot of misinformation on threads about this topic.

[travel33]

So I had purchased travel insurance the same day I purchased my cruise. Something kept nagging at me and prompted me to check on the coverage if (heaven forbid) one of my parents died while I am on my cruise and I need to go home (my Dad has diabetes). What I found is interesting to say the least. While most insurance companies will cover if a relative dies while you are away, they will NOT cover it if there was a way to foresee a possibility of them dying. For example, a parent who has been ill or diagnosed with some disease/heart condition/diabetes, etc...if they then die while you are away, you are NOT covered. A waiver of pre-existing conditions has nothing to do with relatives staying at home, so getting that will not help you either (pre-existing conditions only apply to the people traveling).

 

There is only ONE insurance company that will cover a death of an already ill or elderly family member who is not cruising with you, and that is Travel Guard. They are the only ones who say death is ALWAYS unforeseeable, and as such will cover any death of an immediate family member, no matter how sick they are already prior to you taking out insurance.

 

Now, if you were to call your insurance company, many will say all they need is a death certificate as proof and you will be covered. Please know this is NOT TRUE if the person already has a diagnosis of some sort before you take out insurance. Part of the evaluation of a claim is getting a doctor's certificate or statement that certifies this death was in no way foreseeable and not due to a prior diagnosed illness that has gotten worse.

 

Just a head's up, as my search found a lot of misinformation on threads about this topic.

Thanks for posting this as I had no idea. My dad is in rehab and is also diabetic. I went and checked what insurance I had purchased, and it was Travel Guard. That made me feel a lot better :)

[Vitality08]

So I had purchased travel insurance the same day I purchased my cruise. Something kept nagging at me and prompted me to check on the coverage if (heaven forbid) one of my parents died while I am on my cruise and I need to go home (my Dad has diabetes). What I found is interesting to say the least. While most insurance companies will cover if a relative dies while you are away, they will NOT cover it if there was a way to foresee a possibility of them dying. For example, a parent who has been ill or diagnosed with some disease/heart condition/diabetes, etc...if they then die while you are away, you are NOT covered. A waiver of pre-existing conditions has nothing to do with relatives staying at home, so getting that will not help you either (pre-existing conditions only apply to the people traveling).

 

There is only ONE insurance company that will cover a death of an already ill or elderly family member who is not cruising with you, and that is Travel Guard. They are the only ones who say death is ALWAYS unforeseeable, and as such will cover any death of an immediate family member, no matter how sick they are already prior to you taking out insurance.

 

Now, if you were to call your insurance company, many will say all they need is a death certificate as proof and you will be covered. Please know this is NOT TRUE if the person already has a diagnosis of some sort before you take out insurance. Part of the evaluation of a claim is getting a doctor's certificate or statement that certifies this death was in no way foreseeable and not due to a prior diagnosed illness that has gotten worse.

 

Just a head's up, as my search found a lot of misinformation on threads about this topic.

 

That's terrible. People can be diagnosed and given a time frame of life...like 2-5 years. So, it sounds like if a person travels within that time frame it could be considered forseeable?

 

Does your policy allow you to cancel is an immediate family member become gravely ill right before traveling?

[cruising_diva]

I have the Carnival Vacation Protection which will pay for it's covered reasons, but even if you cancel or your trip is interrupted for a NON-covered reason, it will still pay you back 75% of your trip.

That aside, I ALSO purchased Domestic International, underwritten by Global Underwriters. Here are excerpts from that policy (via an email I received outlining coverage):

From "Definitions":

Immediate Family Member means a person who is related to the Insured in any of the following ways: spouse, Domestic Partner, brother-in-law, sister-in-law, daughter-in-law, son-in-law, mother-in-law, father-in-law, parent (includes stepparent), brother or sister (includes stepbrother or stepsister), or child (includes legally adopted or stepchild), and grandparents.

 

Interruption of Trip -If Your trip is interrupted due to one of the following reasons: 1) Death of an Immediate Family Member; 2) Serious damage to Your principal residence from fire, flood or similar Natural Disaster (tornado, earthquake, hurricane, etc.). Benefits will be paid up to $5,000 for the Expense of economy travel less the value of applied credit from an unused return travel ticket to return You home to Your area of principal residence.

 

No Benefit will be payable for Trip Interruption as the result of:

 

 

1. You, Your family, Your Traveling Companion or Your Traveling Companion's family has made changes to personal plans; having business or contractual obligations; being unable to obtain necessary travel documents (passports, visas, etc.); being detained or having property confiscated by customs authorities; carrier caused delays (including bad weather).

2. Prohibition or regulatory by any government; default of yacht charter companies; default of the organization from which You have purchased Your trip arrangements.

 

No Benefit will be payable for Home Alteration and Vehicle Modification, as the result of:

1. Any condition for which the Insured Person is entitled to benefits under any Workers' Compensation Act or similar law.

 

Based on this, I am not seeing any indication that my insurance would not pay for an interrupted trip due to the death of an immediate family member, even if that death was the result of a pre-existing condition.

Also, pre-existing periods vary, and are usually only 12-36 months. If the diagnosis was provided prior to that, I BELIEVE there would be coverage -- depending upon the policy of course.

 

Good job on finding those loopholes though! :)

[Lisichka]

I have the Carnival Vacation Protection which will pay for it's covered reasons, but even if you cancel or your trip is interrupted for a NON-covered reason, it will still pay you back 75% of your trip.

That aside, I ALSO purchased Domestic International, underwritten by Global Underwriters. Here are excerpts from that policy (via an email I received outlining coverage):

From "Definitions":

Immediate Family Member means a person who is related to the Insured in any of the following ways: spouse, Domestic Partner, brother-in-law, sister-in-law, daughter-in-law, son-in-law, mother-in-law, father-in-law, parent (includes stepparent), brother or sister (includes stepbrother or stepsister), or child (includes legally adopted or stepchild), and grandparents.

 

Interruption of Trip -If Your trip is interrupted due to one of the following reasons: 1) Death of an Immediate Family Member; 2) Serious damage to Your principal residence from fire, flood or similar Natural Disaster (tornado, earthquake, hurricane, etc.). Benefits will be paid up to $5,000 for the Expense of economy travel less the value of applied credit from an unused return travel ticket to return You home to Your area of principal residence.

 

No Benefit will be payable for Trip Interruption as the result of:

 

 

1. You, Your family, Your Traveling Companion or Your Traveling Companion's family has made changes to personal plans; having business or contractual obligations; being unable to obtain necessary travel documents (passports, visas, etc.); being detained or having property confiscated by customs authorities; carrier caused delays (including bad weather).

2. Prohibition or regulatory by any government; default of yacht charter companies; default of the organization from which You have purchased Your trip arrangements.

 

No Benefit will be payable for Home Alteration and Vehicle Modification, as the result of:

1. Any condition for which the Insured Person is entitled to benefits under any Workers' Compensation Act or similar law.

 

Based on this, I am not seeing any indication that my insurance would not pay for an interrupted trip due to the death of an immediate family member, even if that death was the result of a pre-existing condition.

Also, pre-existing periods vary, and are usually only 12-36 months. If the diagnosis was provided prior to that, I BELIEVE there would be coverage -- depending upon the policy of course.

 

Good job on finding those loopholes though! :)

 

That is what I thought too. Glad I checked.

[sirwired]

I do not believe you are correct.

 

The mere existence of a chronic condition like diabetes in a relative will not make you automatically ineligible to file a claim upon the death or hospitalization of that relative. I don't know where you got the idea that was the case. The "reasonably foreseeable" exclusion (which bypasses any pre-ex waiver) applies to something like trying to take out insurance after surgery has already been scheduled or if a relative has been admitted to hospice or shifted to palliative-care-only due to an imminently terminal condition.

 

For treatment for a regular illness not predicted to result in imminent death... that is what the pre-ex exclusion is for. Stable existing chronic conditions not requiring new medical care (i.e. well-controlled Diabetes or high blood pressure) do not cause a pre-ex exclusion (much less a "foreseeable" one.) If that was not the case, what would the separate pre-ex exclusion (and waiver) apply to? If what you are saying is true, there wouldn't be a separate pre-ex exclusion; it would all be covered under "foreseeable".

 

Yes, if you file a claim the insurance company will want a death certificate and medical records. And yes, they are looking for a reason to deny your claim. And yes, you can expect extra scrutiny if you don't have a pre-ex waiver. But if you do have a pre-ex waiver, TravelGuard or not, they are just going to be making sure there was not a recent notation regarding imminent death and that the cause of death was not on the exclusion list (i.e. suicide).

[Lisichka]

I do not believe you are correct.

 

The mere existence of a chronic condition like diabetes in a relative will not make you automatically ineligible to file a claim upon the death or hospitalization of that relative. I don't know where you got the idea that was the case. The "reasonably foreseeable" exclusion (which bypasses any pre-ex waiver) applies to something like trying to take out insurance after surgery has already been scheduled or if a relative has been admitted to hospice or shifted to palliative-care-only due to an imminently terminal condition.

 

For treatment for a regular illness not predicted to result in imminent death... that is what the pre-ex exclusion is for. Stable existing chronic conditions not requiring new medical care (i.e. well-controlled Diabetes or high blood pressure) do not cause a pre-ex exclusion (much less a "foreseeable" one.) If that was not the case, what would the separate pre-ex exclusion (and waiver) apply to? If what you are saying is true, there wouldn't be a separate pre-ex exclusion; it would all be covered under "foreseeable".

 

Yes, if you file a claim the insurance company will want a death certificate and medical records. And yes, they are looking for a reason to deny your claim. And yes, you can expect extra scrutiny if you don't have a pre-ex waiver. But if you do have a pre-ex waiver, TravelGuard or not, they are just going to be making sure there was not a recent notation regarding imminent death and that the cause of death was not on the exclusion list (i.e. suicide).

 

The pre-existing waiver does not apply to people not traveling. Please, if you do not know what you are talking about, do not confuse the issue. PRE-EXISTING WAIVERS ONLY APPLY TO THOSE TRAVELING!!! The issue discussed here is an issue for those NOT traveling who may have a medical condition. You will NOT be covered as outlined above.

Edited June 4, 2014 by Lisichka

[cruiseco]

The pre-existing waiver does not apply to people not traveling. Please, if you do not know what you are talking about, do not confuse the issue. PRE-EXISTING WAIVERS ONLY APPLY TO THOSE TRAVELING!!! The issue discussed here is an issue for those NOT traveling who may have a medical condition. You will NOT be covered as outlined above.

 

What plan/insurer are you looking at? Here's one example from TravelInsured (one of the most widely sold plans in the US). This is the actual exclusion:

 

"“Pre-Existing Condition” means an illness, disease, or other condition during the 60 day period immediately prior to the date Your coverage is effective for which You or Your Traveling Companion, Business Partner or a Family Member : 1)received or received a recommendation for a test, examination, or medical treatment for a condition which first manifested itself, worsened or became acute or had symptoms which would have prompted a reasonable person to seek diagnosis, care or treatment; or 2) took or received a prescription for drugs or medicine. Item (2) of this definition does not apply to a condition which is treated or controlled solely through the taking of prescription drugs or medicine and remains treated or controlled without any adjustment or change in the required prescription throughout the 60 day period before coverage is effective under this Policy. “Published Penalties” means any published cancellation penalties levied by Your travel agency or travel supplier that apply to all clients of the travel agency or travel supplier and can be documented at time of Your purchase of Travel Arrangements from Your travel agency."

 

It very clearly states that the pre-ex exclusion applies to "Family Members" Who is a "Family Member"?

 

"“Family Member” means any of the following: Your or Your Traveling Companion’s legal spouse (or common-law spouse where legal), legal guardian or ward, son or daughter (adopted, foster, step or in-law), brother or sister (includes step or in-law), parent (includes step or in-law), grandparent (includes in-law), grandchild, aunt, uncle, niece or nephew or Domestic Partner."

 

So with this plan, unlike many others such as TravelSafe and Travelex, does not only apply to immediate family members that are traveling with you but also those staying at home.

 

Here's their waiver of the pre-existing condition exclusion:

 

"Waiver of the Pre-Existing Condition Exclusion

The exclusion for Pre-Existing Condition will be waived provided:

 

a) Your Payment for this Policy and enrollment form are received within 21 days of the date Your initial Payment or Deposit for Your Trip is received; and

 

b) You insure all Prepaid Trip costs that are subject to cancellation penalties or restrictions and also insure within 21 days of the Payment or Deposit for those Travel Arrangements the cost of any subsequent Travel Arrangements (or any other Travel Arrangements not made through Your travel agent) added to Your Trip; and

 

c) You are not disabled from travel at the time Your premium is paid."

 

Now note that the waiver is not limited by any wording that says "The exclusion will be waived for the travelers ONLY provided . . ."

 

It does not say "the exclusion will not apply to non-traveling Family Members . . . "

 

What it does say is that the complete pre-existing medical exclusion will be waived if the clients meets the requirements laid out in the wording. Family Members are specifically mentioned in the exclusion. Absent any specific exception in the wording of the waiver, Family Members (non-traveling or not) are covered by the waiver.

 

The insurers can't have it both ways. If they want to include Family Members in the definition of a pre-existing condition exclusion they can't offer a blanket waiver of that exclusion and later say "oops, we didn't mean to include Family Members in the waiver. Our Bad."

 

There may be some exceptions out there -- they might not cover family members over 85 or something like that -- but if they do it will be clearly spelled out. But I can't think of any major plan that would would include family members in the pre-ex exclusion and not also include them in the waiver.

 

What plan(s) have you been looking at?

[klfrodo]

The pre-existing waiver does not apply to people not traveling. Please, if you do not know what you are talking about, do not confuse the issue. PRE-EXISTING WAIVERS ONLY APPLY TO THOSE TRAVELING!!! The issue discussed here is an issue for those NOT traveling who may have a medical condition. You will NOT be covered as outlined above.

 

With all due respect, please understand that both Sirwired and Cruiseco are preeminent experts when understanding and explaining the intricacies of travel insurance.

 

You are mistaken of your blatant understanding of pre existing condition waivers and coverages.

[cruiseco]

I think what might be happening here is a mis-understanding of how some plans treat non-traveling family members when it comes to pre-existing conditions. Compare the following (from TravelSafe) to the definition of "Pre-existing Medical Condition" from TravelInsured quoted in a previous posy:

 

"“Pre-Existing Condition” means any injury, sickness or condition (including any condition from which death ensues) of You, Your Traveling Companion, or Your or Your Traveling Companion’s Family Member traveling with You which within the 60 day period prior to the effective date of Your Trip Cancellation coverage under the Policy: (a) manifested itself, became acute or exhibited symptoms which would have caused one to seek diagnosis, care or treatment; (b) required taking prescribed drugs or medicine, unless the condition for which the prescribed drug or medicine is taken remains controlled without any change in the required prescription; or © required medical treatment or treatment was recommended by a Legally Qualified Physician."

 

Note that with this insurer a NON-traveling family member is not subject to the pre-existing condition exclusion.

 

So, if I were to call the insurer and ask if the pre-existing condition waiver applies to a NON-traveling member the correct answer would be "no". Why? because you can't waive something that does not exist -- these NON-traveling family members are not subject to the exclusion so the waiver is meaningless with respect to them.

[Lisichka]

With all due respect, please understand that both Sirwired and Cruiseco are preeminent experts when understanding and explaining the intricacies of travel insurance.

 

You are mistaken of your blatant understanding of pre existing condition waivers and coverages.

 

I am not mistaken. I spent HOURS on the phone with various travel insurances trying to get it in writing (not just talking to a CSR). NONE would do it if the non traveling family member is already sick when you take out the insurance.

 

Like I have explained over and over again: the pre-existing waiver does not apply to non traveling members. Trip interruption and trip cancellation however WILL BE DENIED if you had a knowledge of the family member being sick enough to possibly have to cancel and/or interrupt your travel when you take out the insurance.

 

GET IT IN WRITING if you are worried about a non-traveling family member. NONE of the insurances would do it, except for travelguard. They are the ONLY ones who will put it in writing that an already sick non-traveling family member is covered for trip interruption or trip cancellation.

 

In other words: if your family member is sick before you take out insurance, and the dr has told you they may get worse, and you then take out insurance to cover trip cancellation or interruption, it will not be covered once you file the claim. If an agent denies this, have them put it in writing!

Edited June 4, 2014 by Lisichka

[klfrodo]

 

In other words: if your family member is sick before you take out insurance, and the dr has told you they may get worse, and you then take out insurance to cover trip cancellation or interruption, it will not be covered once you file the claim. If an agent denies this, have them put it in writing!

 

Well, I can see the misunderstanding.

If you the traveller, rather than just the non traveling family member, were in this exact situation,,,,,, you the traveller would be denied any claim. In your own words, you're saying the the traveller was not fit to travel at the time the insurance was taken out,,,, therefore inelligible and does not meet the standard for waiver of pre existing condition. ( the family member that is not traveling and has severe and ongoing medical issues to the extent of "getting worse" cannot be covered by pre existing conditions.)

That would be like totaling out your car, buy insurance, then try to make a claim.

 

I did not understand in any of your previous posts that the non traveling member that you were talking about was in ill health. That was an important part of the story that you are leaving out

[Lisichka]

 

I did not understand in any of your previous posts that the non traveling member that you were talking about was in ill health. That was an important part of the story that you are leaving out

 

Seriously? Read the 2nd paragraph in my original post. I clearly stated this involved NON TRAVELING FAMILY MEMBERS WHO ARE ALREADY ILL.

 

Again, do not give out opinions if you have no clue what you are talking about or refuse to read the OP.

Edited June 6, 2014 by Lisichka

[Bases5]

This is interesting, Thanks for the heads up

 

So I understand you correctly

My Dad who is diabetic, high blood pressure, has had heart valve replacement, 15 years ago and has been under a doctor's care since.

There is no expected death any time soon.

But if I understand you correctly if he was to die or have a heart attic while we were on a cruise none of our trip or return cost would be covered because he had pre existing conditions?

Even if I buy insurance to waive pre existing conditions?

[Bases5]

I am not mistaken. I spent HOURS on the phone with various travel insurances trying to get it in writing (not just talking to a CSR). NONE would do it if the non traveling family member is already sick when you take out the insurance.

 

Like I have explained over and over again: the pre-existing waiver does not apply to non traveling members. Trip interruption and trip cancellation however WILL BE DENIED if you had a knowledge of the family member being sick enough to possibly have to cancel and/or interrupt your travel when you take out the insurance.

 

GET IT IN WRITING if you are worried about a non-traveling family member. NONE of the insurances would do it, except for travelguard. They are the ONLY ones who will put it in writing that an already sick non-traveling family member is covered for trip interruption or trip cancellation.

 

In other words: if your family member is sick before you take out insurance, and the dr has told you they may get worse, and you then take out insurance to cover trip cancellation or interruption, it will not be covered once you file the claim. If an agent denies this, have them put it in writing!

 

With all due respect this is not always true. This is from my ploicy thats not travel guard

 

With a pre-existing conditions waiver, you'll be eligible for travel insurance benefits should something related to your condition (or your loved one's condition) disrupt your trip. For example, if you are traveling abroad and a family member at home who suffers from a pre-existing condition suddenly takes a turn for the worse, making it necessary for you to cut your trip short, your policy's trip interruption benefits would apply. If you were traveling with a pre-existing condition of your own, and suddenly had a recurrence or relapse that required you to seek medical attention, your expenses would be covered under the guidelines set by your travel insurance provider. Without the pre-existing conditions waiver, you would not be eligible for these benefits.

[sirwired]

If you've been told a family member is doomed to ruin your trip before you buy insurance no policy will cover you. Not even TravelGuard. That's not merely a "pre-existing condition", it's a "foreseeable" event.

 

But a family member (or traveler) "being sick" will not do anything but trigger the pre-ex exclusion. And the pre-ex waiver doesn't mention anything about it only waiving the pre-ex exlcusion only for travelers. If it only waived the pre-ex exclusion for travelers, the waiver would say so.

 

The only interesting thing about the TravelGuard policy is that they won't apply the pre-ex exclusion if it results in the death of a non-traveler during your trip. (But the pre-ex exclusion will still bite you for serious illness.)

[cruising grandma]

We purchased trip insurance through Carnival. My mother was hospitalized four days before the cruise. She was 91 years old and had several health issues prior to this. We canceled the cruise the day before start date of the cruise, and my mom died four days later. Carnival reimbursed us 100%, with sympathy for our family.

[Gail & Marty sailing away]

I would look into Allianz

Edited June 10, 2014 by we're sailing away....

[Ken076]

The pre-existing waiver does not apply to people not traveling. Please, if you do not know what you are talking about, do not confuse the issue. PRE-EXISTING WAIVERS ONLY APPLY TO THOSE TRAVELING!!! The issue discussed here is an issue for those NOT traveling who may have a medical condition. You will NOT be covered as outlined above.

 

You're correct that the "waiver of pre-existing conditions" for most Policies, applies to the Those Traveling.

 

However, in several Policies I just checked, the term "pre-existing condition" only applies to The Insured Traveler, a Travel Companion, and a Family Member traveling with the insured; the term does not even apply to those defined Family Members who are not traveling.

 

For Example -- The CSA Custom Deluxe Policy specifically defines pre-existing condition as applying to the Traveler, Traveling Companion and Family Member Traveling with (the insured). I don't even see a "forseeable exclusion" as mentioned in posts above, and the only requirement for someone to be fit to travel at time pf Policy purchase is the Insured (and that is only to qualify for the waiver.

 

So for this Policy, where there's no such thing as a pre-existing condition for Family Member left at home, grandma who has had several doctors visits and several treatments and several Rx changes, could be severely hospitalized and you'd be covered for Cancellation or Trip Interruption.

 

ken

[donaldsc]

This is from the American Diabetic Association -

 

"Prevalence in Seniors: The percentage of Americans age 65 and older remains high, at 25.9%, or 11.8 million seniors (diagnosed and undiagnosed).

The rate was 26.9% in 2010.

- See more at: http://www.diabetes.org/diabetes-basics/statistics/#sthash.w4gh6F7F.dpuf"

 

http://www.diabetes.org/diabetes-basics/statistics/

 

I seriously doubt that you are right although I have not checked. It certainly would be a great loophole for the insurance industry.

 

DON

[cruiseco]

 

So for this Policy, where there's no such thing as a pre-existing condition for Family Member left at home, grandma who has had several doctors visits and several treatments and several Rx changes, could be severely hospitalized and you'd be covered for Cancellation or Trip Interruption.

 

ken

 

The general rule of thumb is that the condition of the non-traveling family member at the time the insurance is the base line for determining if cancellation coverage will apply.

 

For example, if Grandma is receiving hospice care when you buy the policy you can't cancel your trip two months later because Grandma is in the hospice -- that's what her condition was when the policy was purchased. But if she passes away that should be a significant enough change in her condition to be covered.

 

Or, maybe Grandma was receiving chemo or radiation therapy for some cancer as of the day you buy your policy. You can't cancel and be covered because of the side effects of that treatment. But if the treatment was stopped and she goes into hospice and is given a month or two to live that should be covered. It's a significant worsening of his condition.