Norwegian Cruise Line Bans Smoking on Balconies

[NLH Arizona]

Totally agree and would actually propose they carry it a step further.

 

To me the areas in and near the casinos are far more dangerous due to second hand smoke from cigarettes than anywhere outside on a balcony.

 

What would be wrong with the following:

 

Just like they have a cigar bar why not have something similar for people that want to smoke real cigarettes somewhere out on an open deck. Have it be large enough and secluded enough to accommodate those who wish to use it while having little or no impact on those who wish to avoid smoke.

 

In the casinos they could ban cigarette smoking totally but allow people to vape e-cigs. Doing that would vastly improve the air quality in all of the inside venues in the vicinity.

 

Right now there is no way NCL would ban cigarette smoking in the casinos as there is a disproportionate number of gamblers who smoke vs. those that don't. However most of the smokers/gamblers that I know would be perfectly content if they could vape e-cigs (many do already) rather than smoke cigarettes.

 

e-cigs should definitely be allowed in the cabins and balconies in my opinion as well.

 

Seems a simple enough solution to me and it is a case where everyone wins:

 

For those that must smoke real cigarettes there is an area to do it.

 

For everyone else the air quality is infinitely better everywhere on the ship both inside and out as only the vaping of e-cigs would be allowed.

 

I fully expect the few anti-smoking people on this thread to immediately jump on it and oppose the idea....as it is their way only that matters.

Instead of an open air smoking area, why not have one enclosed lounge, which has a bar, that could be for smoking? Seems like a good thing to do.

 

Also, have to disagree with you about gamblers - the majority don't smoke. I go to Las Vegas all the time and have noticed over the years the decline of smokers gambling. Celebrity has non-smoking casinos and on my last cruise with them, it was hard to find a slot machine in the evenings because it was so packed. Casinos in some states (Colorado for one) have no smoking in casinos and they don't seem to have a problem filling their casinos.

 

I think the problem with e-cigarettes is that no one knows the safety factory to the smoker or those around the smoker yet. The FDA has not approved them, Mayo Clinic says there needs to be more research, etc. As some have said, years ago we were told that regular cigarettes were safe, we were told that certain drugs were safe, then to find out that they are not. Even an e-cigarette smoker on here has said that the studies/research will not say if they are safe in the long term or if the second hand vapor from them is not harmful. Shouldn't we wait until these studies confirm that they are safe for the smoker and those around them before we demand that they should be smoked in non-smoking areas.

Edited August 3, 2014 by NLH Arizona

[NLH Arizona]

Highly doubtful that any prime cabin would go vacant. Many non-smokers have had no issues with smokers on balconies and the same would be the case is this policy were instituted. Smokers would go for them and non-smokers that don't care would book them. You might even find some non-smokers that dislike smoke booking them just because of them being prime real estate with the hopes that the cabin next tho theirs doesn't have a smoker in it.......just like now. Thinking that cabins would go empty is like thinking half of the balconies on sailings prior to the new ban went empty just because a smoker might be next door.

Do you really think that any cruise line is going to give up prime real estate (like aft penthouses) to smokers. Come on, with only a small percentage of their passengers being smokers, they are going to give them these cabins and tell their non-smoking passengers that they are out of luck.

 

Difference between prior to the ban and what you are suggesting, is that someone had a chance that there was not a smoker next to them (which by the rules they knew there could be one) and with what is suggested there would be a huge chance a smoker would be next to them, because as you say smokers would go for them. I do believe that some, not me, didn't book balconies because they were worried or had a bag experience with a smoker being next to them.

 

The idea of making smoking cabins has been thrown around on Cruise Critic forever and don't you think that if any cruise line thought it was a financially responsible idea, they would have done it years ago.

[swedish weave]

Totally agree and would actually propose they carry it a step further.

 

To me the areas in and near the casinos are far more dangerous due to second hand smoke from cigarettes than anywhere outside on a balcony.

 

What would be wrong with the following:

 

Just like they have a cigar bar why not have something similar for people that want to smoke real cigarettes somewhere out on an open deck. Have it be large enough and secluded enough to accommodate those who wish to use it while having little or no impact on those who wish to avoid smoke.

 

In the casinos they could ban cigarette smoking totally but allow people to vape e-cigs. Doing that would vastly improve the air quality in all of the inside venues in the vicinity.

 

Right now there is no way NCL would ban cigarette smoking in the casinos as there is a disproportionate number of gamblers who smoke vs. those that don't. However most of the smokers/gamblers that I know would be perfectly content if they could vape e-cigs (many do already) rather than smoke cigarettes.

 

e-cigs should definitely be allowed in the cabins and balconies in my opinion as well.

 

Seems a simple enough solution to me and it is a case where everyone wins:

 

For those that must smoke real cigarettes there is an area to do it.

 

For everyone else the air quality is infinitely better everywhere on the ship both inside and out as only the vaping of e-cigs would be allowed.

 

I fully expect the few anti-smoking people on this thread to immediately jump on it and oppose the idea....as it is their way only that matters.

 

Correction to the last line ------ It is NCL's way only that matters !!!!!

[NLH Arizona]

Many of the "vigilante" non-smokers felt "trapped" in their cabin, unable to use even for 1 second their balcony that they paid for because someone next door was smoking a pack of cigarettes at the same time. No one forced them to book a balcony either but they did so anyway.......IMO just to have something to complain about.

You are correct, they felt trapped as well and if they had an issue (when smoking was allowed on the balconies), they should have reconsidered their decision to cruise, so they wouldn't be trapped.

 

Bottom line is that NCL has made the new rule. Those non-smokers expect (rightly so) that there will not be someone smoking on the balcony next to them. If a smoker choses to break the rules, they should be ready to pay the consequences.

Edited August 3, 2014 by NLH Arizona

[mein18]

I agree..... that was the single most accurate statement/question in this whole megathread.

 

Thank goodness our forefathers did not have that attitude in 1776

 

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Forums mobile app

[mein18]

If a smoker feels "trapped" on a floating city during long sea days, it is because the smoker chose to cruise on a ship knowing their smoking policy; they have no one else to blame but themselves. If one doesn't want to be "trapped" on a cruise ship, then one should consider a vacation where they won't feel "trapped", after all no one is forcing a smoker to cruise.

 

Nor is anyone forcing a non-smoker to cruise

 

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Forums mobile app

[mein18]

Many of the "vigilante" non-smokers felt "trapped" in their cabin, unable to use even for 1 second their balcony that they paid for because someone next door was smoking a pack of cigarettes at the same time. No one forced them to book a balcony either but they did so anyway.......IMO just to have something to complain about.

 

And complain they do and will continue to no matter how the polkcy changes in their favor. Proven in at least 700 of the posts on this thread.

 

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Forums mobile app

[Red-Sol]

Instead of an open air smoking area, why not have one enclosed lounge, which has a bar, that could be for smoking? Seems like a good thing to do.

 

That could be another alternative as well. I have no concern with that.

 

Also, have to disagree with you about gamblers - the majority don't smoke. I go to Las Vegas all the time and have noticed over the years the decline of smokers gambling. Celebrity has non-smoking casinos and on my last cruise with them, it was hard to find a slot machine in the evenings because it was so packed. Casinos in some states (Colorado for one) have no smoking in casinos and they don't seem to have a problem filling their casinos.

 

I don't have access to any direct data and it might be true that the "majority" of gamblers don't smoke. If you assume that the numbers being thrown around that roughly 20% of the U.S. population smoke I would still bet (since I am a gambler :) ) that the number of people in any smoking casino is larger than the 20% of the general population. Is it 25%? 35%? 45%? I have no idea but I am sure it is larger and not smaller than the general population.

 

I don't find that there are no smokers in a non-smoking casino to be surprising.

 

Haven't been to Vegas in many years but will be going in September and will see how it appears. I do take a monthly trip to Seneca in Niagara Falls though (fairly large casino) and the size of the smoking section dwarfs the non-smoking section by at least 10 to 1.

 

If NCL felt there would be no impact on their revenues by banning smoking in their casinos they would do it in a heart beat....but they have access to data that is saying it would hurt.

 

I think the problem with e-cigarettes is that no one knows the safety factory to the smoker or those around the smoker yet. The FDA has not approved them, Mayo Clinic says there needs to be more research, etc. As some have said, years ago we were told that regular cigarettes were safe, we were told that certain drugs were safe, then to find out that they are not. Even an e-cigarette smoker on here has said that the studies/research will not say if they are safe in the long term or if the second hand vapor from them is not harmful. Shouldn't we wait until these studies confirm that they are safe for the smoker and those around them before we demand that they should be smoked in non-smoking areas.

 

While the jury is still out as far as any safety/health issues for e-cigs it is in as far as second hand smoke from cigarettes. In my way of thinking the banning of real cigarettes in the casinos now would immediately reduce known dangers and allowing e-cigs there would probably not have the reduced revenues that NCL apparently believes would happen from a total ban. But that's just me!

[LAKECLIFF]

If a smoker feels "trapped" on a floating city during long sea days, it is because the smoker chose to cruise on a ship knowing their smoking policy; they have no one else to blame but themselves. If one doesn't want to be "trapped" on a cruise ship, then one should consider a vacation where they won't feel "trapped", after all no one is forcing a smoker to cruise.

I will absolutely quit cruising! I have already stated that several times...:rolleyes: I made the choice to cruise when balcony smoking was permitted. You also have the choice not to cruise!!!! But compromise is not in your agenda, so just be happy we are all gone...

[NLH Arizona]

 

I don't have access to any direct data and it might be true that the "majority" of gamblers don't smoke. If you assume that the numbers being thrown around that roughly 20% of the U.S. population smoke I would still bet (since I am a gambler :) ) that the number of people in any smoking casino is larger than the 20% of the general population. Is it 25%? 35%? 45%? I have no idea but I am sure it is larger and not smaller than the general population.

 

I don't find that there are no smokers in a non-smoking casino to be surprising.

 

In 2012, I believe research said those that overall smokers in the US was 18.1%. Here is some research on smokers and gamblers: We looked at casinos throughout the State of Nevada, from the mega-resorts of Las Vegas to the small local casinos of rural Nevada. Overall, we observed 17,723 gamblers. The results from the 3 tourist centers of Nevada we surveyed (Las Vegas, Reno/Sparks and Lake Tahoe) gave very similar results for the

percentage of smokers (21.5, 22.6 and 17 respectively). It did go on to say that smokers in rural casinos were higher at 36.7 percent. In that I don't go to rural casinos, I would have to agree with their research, since this is what I pretty much see in Las Vegas.

 

BTW, the reason most non-smoking gambles don't go to the non-smoking sections, is because most casinos don't put the newer games in there.

 

Haven't been to Vegas in many years but will be going in September and will see how it appears. I do take a monthly trip to Seneca in Niagara Falls though (fairly large casino) and the size of the smoking section dwarfs the non-smoking section by at least 10 to 1. I'll also be in Las Vegas in September, so we will have to share our experiences.

 

If NCL felt there would be no impact on their revenues by banning smoking in their casinos they would do it in a heart beat....but they have access to data that is saying it would hurt. I think they are probably waiting to see and they might never ban smoking in the casino, but since others have and haven't seemed to lose any revenue, sorry but I feel they probably will, maybe not today or tomorrow but in a few years.

 

While the jury is still out as far as any safety/health issues for e-cigs it is in as far as second hand smoke from cigarettes. In my way of thinking the banning of real cigarettes in the casinos now would immediately reduce known dangers and allowing e-cigs there would probably not have the reduced revenues that NCL apparently believes would happen from a total ban. But that's just me!Some on here (smokers) have said that the ban has nothing to do with the safety of their passengers, but because of some new regulations. I don't think the ban on e-cigarettes will have any impact on NCL's revenue. There might be some smokers who will leave and there might be some non-smokers who will return. Since it has worked for Celebrity and other lines, I don't know how anyone can forsee any revenue issue for NCL. I think if they ban cigarettes in the casino, but allow e-cigarettes, there will be the same issues from non-smokers until the FDA approves them.

 

Thanks for a great discussion and keeping it civil, unlike some on here.

Edited August 3, 2014 by NLH Arizona

[NLH Arizona]

I will absolutely quit cruising! I have already stated that several times...:rolleyes: I made the choice to cruise when balcony smoking was permitted. You also have the choice not to cruise!!!! But compromise is not in your agenda, so just be happy we are all gone...

If you read my posts, I have said that I use to bring a portable battery powered fan, so that if a smoker was next to me, they could smoke and I didn't have to have the smoke come my way, which I believe was a win win for both of us.

 

Of course, I have the choice to cruise and I choose to cruise; I cruise with NCL, Celebrity and Crystal and have enjoyed each and every cruise I've been on. If you choose not to cruise, that is your decision and I hope that you find other alternative vacations that will fit all your needs.

[Out to sea!]

Do you really think that any cruise line is going to give up prime real estate (like aft penthouses) to smokers. Come on, with only a small percentage of their passengers being smokers, they are going to give them these cabins and tell their non-smoking passengers that they are out of luck.

 

Difference between prior to the ban and what you are suggesting, is that someone had a chance that there was not a smoker next to them (which by the rules they knew there could be one) and with what is suggested there would be a huge chance a smoker would be next to them, because as you say smokers would go for them. I do believe that some, not me, didn't book balconies because they were worried or had a bag experience with a smoker being next to them.

 

The idea of making smoking cabins has been thrown around on Cruise Critic forever and don't you think that if any cruise line thought it was a financially responsible idea, they would have done it years ago.

 

I have no idea and no one other than those companies would even begin to know. I simply said, even if they did, those cabins would NOT go unsold simply because people next to them may be smokers who would smoke on the balcony. It didn't stop people from booking balconies before and and it wouldn't stop them in the future. It may stop some people but there are plenty more standing in line for those cabins.

[Out to sea!]

Correction to the last line ------ It is NCL's way only that matters !!!!!

 

Funny, that didn't seem to stop non-smokers from complaining prior to the ban. :rolleyes:

[NLH Arizona]

I have no idea and no one other than those companies would even begin to know. I simply said, even if they did, those cabins would NOT go unsold simply because people next to them may be smokers who would smoke on the balcony. It didn't stop people from booking balconies before and and it wouldn't stop them in the future. It may stop some people but there are plenty more standing in line for those cabins.

Because prior to the ban, they didn't have a choice to be next to a smoker or not - it was a crap shoot for them. When you give a non-smoker a choice to be next to a smoker or not, I think the majority is going to take the latter. If it is such a great idea, why hasn't any cruise line every done it? Edited August 3, 2014 by NLH Arizona

[NLH Arizona]

Funny, that didn't seem to stop non-smokers from complaining prior to the ban. :rolleyes:

And I would bet that smokers will complain when the ban is in place, like they are now:rolleyes:. Just human nature to complain about something you don't like.

[Out to sea!]

[quote name='NLH Arizona']You are correct, they felt trapped as well and if they had an issue (when smoking was allowed on the balconies), they should have reconsidered their decision to cruise, so they wouldn't be trapped.

[B]Bottom line is that NCL has made the new rule. Those non-smokers expect (rightly so) that there will not be someone smoking on the balcony next to them. If a smoker choses to break the rules, they should be ready to pay the consequences.[/B][/QUOTE]

Completely agree, 100%. Always have. Rules are meant to be followed, not broken. Personally, if someone were found breaking the rules (not just smoking but smuggling, chogging, etc...) I would have them put on KP duty (not enough grass on board for Weeds & Seeds duty) as a $250 fine is pocket change to some folks.

[luvtheships]

[quote name='Out to sea!']In reality, he/she is no different than smugglers or chogs.[/QUOTE]

Well I am none of the above nor ever plan to be


Sent from my iPhone using Forums

[Sailor_Sally]

Most of the major cruise lines have made this change and none of them have loosened their rules so unfortunately smokers deal with it and stop beating a dead horse . As for compromise I compromised by by not booking a balcony when smoking was still allowed and avoiding all smoking areas now I can happily book a balcony again.

[luvtheships]

[quote name='mein18']Nor is anyone forcing a non-smoker to cruise

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Forums mobile app[/QUOTE]

You are very misinformed

Restaurants planes trains parks buildings hotels . You name it and non smoking is the norm

Sorry to burst your bubble but cruise ships are not far behind

You can't really think that public opinion regarding smoking will ever revert back can you?


Sent from my iPhone using Forums

[Out to sea!]

[quote name='luvtheships']Well I am none of the above nor ever plan to be


Sent from my iPhone using Forums[/QUOTE]

Never said you were so I have no idea what the point of your post is. :confused:

While you may not be a smuggler or a chog, there are many, even right here on CC, that are.

[Out to sea!]

[quote name='Sailor_Sally'][B]Most of the major cruise lines have made this change and none of them have loosened their rules so unfortunately smokers deal with it and stop beating a dead horse .[/B] As for compromise I compromised by by not booking a balcony when smoking was still allowed and avoiding all smoking areas now I can happily book a balcony again.[/QUOTE]

Oh [B][I]please[/I][/B] don't tell me you're coming on here to tell smokers to not complain about the new rules. Not after listening to non-smokers complaining for [B][I][U]ages[/U][/I][/B] about the current rules (which are still in effect). As long as smokers adhere to the new rules, you can listen to them complain until the cows come home if they so choose........or read a different thread. Edited August 3, 2014 by Out to sea!

[mein18]

[quote name='Out to sea!']Funny, that didn't seem to stop non-smokers from complaining prior to the ban. :rolleyes:[/QUOTE]

LIKE x 10:):):)

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Forums mobile app

[Out to sea!]

[quote name='mein18']Nor is anyone forcing a non-smoker to cruise

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Forums mobile app[/QUOTE]

[quote name='luvtheships']You are very misinformed

Restaurants planes trains parks buildings hotels . You name it and non smoking is the norm

Sorry to burst your bubble but cruise ships are not far behind

You can't really think that public opinion regarding smoking will ever revert back can you?


Sent from my iPhone using Forums[/QUOTE]

How is the post you responded to misinformed? Are you saying that non-smokers are [B][I][U]forced[/U][/I][/B] to take cruises? I don't remember ever being forced to take a cruise when I was a non-smoker. Or is it that you are just so far gone over the edge on this particular issue that you can't even rebut or answer a post which you are responding to? Seems to me you just want to aim barbs at a particular person instead of even trying to have a conversation and rebut or challenge the points brought up by people.

BTW, as far as I'm concerned, cruise lines can do what they want. They are a private company and can run that company any way they see fit. They want to make their line completely smoke free? Go ahead, no one is stopping them. I'll guarantee you I nor thousands of others won't step one foot on a ship if they do and IMO, they aren't stupid enough to shoot themselves in the foot just to make you happy. But considering 75% of my yearly vacations are already land based I have no problem making that 100% and with the money saved from cruising I can take even more exotic land vacations. Edited August 3, 2014 by Out to sea!

[mein18]

[quote name='luvtheships']You are very misinformed

Restaurants planes trains parks buildings hotels . You name it and non smoking is the norm

Sorry to burst your bubble but cruise ships are not far behind

You can't really think that public opinion regarding smoking will ever revert back can you?


Sent from my iPhone using Forums[/QUOTE]

What does your reply have anything to do with the post you quoted? Are you somehow being forced to cruise?


Sent from my SCH-I545 using Forums mobile app

[sjbdtz]

[quote name='Red-Sol']
Right now there is no way NCL would ban cigarette smoking in the casinos as there is a disproportionate number of gamblers who smoke vs. those that don't. [/QUOTE]

That's only because many of the non-smoker gamblers avoid the ship's casino because of the smoke.



[quote name='mein18']Thank goodness our forefathers did not have that attitude in 1776

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Forums mobile app[/QUOTE]

Hmmm...in 1776 my forefather had just celebrated the 127th anniversary of our family's emigration from France to Canada - in 1646.

What was your forefather doing in 1776?



Stephen


.