This Thread Is To Be Used For All Discussions About HAL's On Board Smoking Policies

[brainyblonde]

Wish us luck that our balcony on the Volendam, 45 days Singapore to Vancouver, will be smoke free.

 

When, oh when, will HAL come into the 21st Century? Florida, our home, is a clean air state. Public spaces are just that, public.

[Hlitner]

I don't know if this has been noted in the past 88 pages but I'm not going through all of them to find out :D

 

Just got off the Celebrity Solstice, they bang on about their stricter smoking policies and that you cannot smoke on verandahs, so I was expecting a pretty much smoke free environment.

 

Who is kidding who I wonder. Of their pitiful Promenade Deck Areas, one side is smoking, so you can't go out for viewing at Promenade level on that side of the ship.

 

One half of their Sunset Bar at the back of the ship is smoking and it is not a spacious area like the rear deck of the Oosterdam, not only is the seating now limited, the smoke can waft over in such a confined space.

 

Then their is their lovely lawn area (I actually think it is a waste of usable space) the chairs lined up in the shade on one side are smoking as well.

 

Then their open pool area, which is mainly loungers with upright seating on the Port and Starboard sides towards the back, again one side is smoking.

 

There was one other spot, but I can't remember where because by this time I was blue in the face holding my breath as I walked past :)

 

So even though there was no verandah and casino smoking, it was still very much evident and restricted some really good seating areas.

 

So unless a ship is totally smoke free, I don't think there will be any escaping it.

 

You are absolutely correct. In fact, we often have to choose our deck chairs on Celebrity and Princess to position ourselves away (or upwind) from the smoking areas. However, our problem with HAL is not about the deck but rather on a stateroom veranda (which can be very expensive on some HAL ships) or in the casino area. While we can work around smokers when on deck, we cannot always escape the smoke when on our private veranda. And since we prefer to avoid gambling in a room that always smells like a dirty ashtray we simply avoid gambling on HAL ships (this has probably saved us a lot of money).

 

And yes, there are usually some "considerate" smokers on other lines who totally ignore the rules and sneak cigarettes/cigars on their balconies. There is no way that any ship (or any land-based facility) can guarantee that somebody will not violate the rules. However, on ships that have rules (not HAL) a complaining passenger does have some recourse. We know one person who was fined (out of politeness to "considerate" smokers Celebrity calls this a "cleaning fee") for smoking on their Celebrity balcony (they did not do it a 2nd time) and have heard (cannot verify) of passengers being disembarked (mid-cruise) for multiple smoking violations.

 

Hank

Edited March 16, 2015 by Hlitner

[JoMoe]

Took and Royal Caribbean cruise in Feb. I didn't like all the smoking on RC before they changed their policy, so I thought I would give it another try.

 

Here is some quotes from RC policies "For the comfort and enjoyment of our guests, our ships are designated as non-smoking" and "Onboard all interior public spaces are smoke free".

 

In reality some interior public spaces are very smoky. The promenade is the main interior public space. There is a staircase in the middle of the promenade that leads to the middle of the casino. I have never seen anyone take the stairs, but it functions as a chimney for the smoke in the casino to enter the promenade. Smoke also exits the casino on either end entering the areas on either end and above the casino doors. So if the casino is open, the promenade is smoky. Numerous times we went to the promenade to get a bite to eat, shop, hang out, listen to music, but we didn't stay long because our clothes would smell like smoke and we would have to breathe it while we were there.

 

Simply designating something as non-smoking does not make it so. You must make it so by proactively putting up doors, or somehow preventing the smoke from flowing out to other areas. I plan to take another RC cruise as soon as all interior public spaces are truly smoke free in practice, not just in policy.

[Aquahound]

However, on ships that have rules (not HAL) a complaining passenger does have some recourse. We know one person who was fined (out of politeness to "considerate" smokers Celebrity calls this a "cleaning fee") for smoking on their Celebrity balcony (they did not do it a 2nd time) and have heard (cannot verify) of passengers being disembarked (mid-cruise) for multiple smoking violations.

 

You're darn right about recourse. Day one on Vision of the Seas before leaving port, my neighbor lit up. And to make it worse, she left a cup of water on her balcony filled with used butts that stunk like crap. Request to stop by me...ignored. First warning to her from Guest Services...ignored. $250 "cleaning fee"...it finally stopped. And big kudos to VOS Guest Services who made follow-up phone calls to me to make sure it was not continuing. They flat out told me if she lit up again, they would disembark her in the Bahamas. Apparently her neighbor on the other side complained also.

[cruz chic]

You're darn right about recourse. Day one on Vision of the Seas before leaving port, my neighbor lit up. And to make it worse, she left a cup of water on her balcony filled with used butts that stunk like crap. Request to stop by me...ignored. First warning to her from Guest Services...ignored. $250 "cleaning fee"...it finally stopped. And big kudos to VOS Guest Services who made follow-up phone calls to me to make sure it was not continuing. They flat out told me if she lit up again, they would disembark her in the Bahamas. Apparently her neighbor on the other side complained also.

 

I had a smoker beside me on my princess cruise. I could not tell exactly where the smoke was coming from until the morning of disembarkation so I didn't report her. She's very lucky. You constantly hear from smokers that non smokers should go to another line. You can see how well that works. To bad that people can't follow rules.

Edited March 16, 2015 by cruz chic

[Sow There]

As I've said before, occasional whiffs of tobacco smoke do not bother us. I and my DW grew up in the mid 20th century when smoking was a normal activity and the smoking car on trains was a place one could easily find a seat. I remember several times on elevator rides in NY skyscrapers where ashtrays were omnipresent and some folks even puffed on pipes and cigars as we traveled vertically.

 

We began our cruise "habit" in the late 1980's (and what a great habit it is!) and the issue of smoking on board evolved from then, where there were no balcony cabins and smoking was generally permitted anywhere on board except in a few areas (engine rooms, etc.).

 

Then the anti-smoking efforts in general became increasingly popular with steadily increasing restrictions on where one could smoke.

 

The "elephant in the room" was/is the increasing legal and regulatory involvement of various levels of government including, especially, law enforcement.

 

It was about 10 years ago that Carnival launched a newbuild, the Paradise, which was a smoke free ship. That experiment failed because not enough people booked cruises on Paradise for some reason. (Some say it was their smoking prohibition while others say it was they had lousy itineraries assigned to Paradise.) Carnival abandoned the policy and Paradise was added as just another ship in the fleet.

 

The historic lesson from all this is that anti-smoking rule enforcement requires more than a company's "policy statement" and essentially voluntary compliance by smokers. It requires a legal basis and enforcement capabilities that are available to enforce the legal aspect. That's not available on board a cruise ship except in a manner similar to the procedures employed by Carnival in its failed Paradise experiment.

 

The vignettes cited in this thread about second hand smoking experiences on lines with, arguably, more restrictive smoking policies than HAL demonstrate that the absolute prohibition of all smoking activity on board cruise ships can only occur with a re-institution of the rules originally established in the Paradise experiment.

 

Perhaps the market is now ready for such a restart, but there are no cruise lines willing to be the first to give it a try.

 

Although we aren't bothered by occasional whiffs of tobacco smoke, it also wouldn't bother us at all if smoking were, indeed, totally prohibited on a cruise ship. Except one thing. How would such a policy affect the stock price of the cruise line that tries it first?

[albingirl]

This can get ridiculous. The occasional "whiffs" of smoke is not what people are talking about. Being clouded in smoke, having it all around you on your personal balcony, and being unable to even walk through the casino is the discussion. I doubt people are complaining about a tiny whisper of smoke. We are entitled to clean air, as much as you think there are "considerate" smokers. There aren't any as long as they are polluting my space.

[chrispb]

Wish us luck that our balcony on the Volendam, 45 days Singapore to Vancouver, will be smoke free.

 

When, oh when, will HAL come into the 21st Century? Florida, our home, is a clean air state. Public spaces are just that, public.

 

We've never had a problem finding somewhere to smoke in Florida. In fact, it was probably easier than here at home:cool:

[Sow There]

This can get ridiculous. The occasional "whiffs" of smoke is not what people are talking about. Being clouded in smoke, having it all around you on your personal balcony, and being unable to even walk through the casino is the discussion. I doubt people are complaining about a tiny whisper of smoke. We are entitled to clean air, as much as you think there are "considerate" smokers. There aren't any as long as they are polluting my space.

I don't disagree at all. As I said earlier, we can handle occasional whiffs. We avoid the casinos, for example, because they have entirely too much smoke (and also because I have totally lousy luck when I gamble).

 

You missed my point. The only way smoking will ever be snuffed out (pun intended) is by a total ban, not by half measures like banning smoking in specified areas. So long as our investments in CCL and RCI are not negatively impacted by a total smoking ban, we're all in for that change.

 

But we have noticed, and are less than ambivalent about, those few people who make anti-smoking an obsession such as when we saw a woman complaining loudly and obnoxiously about a person who was smoking what turned out to be a smokeless e-cigarette.

[LMaxwell]

As I've said before, occasional whiffs of tobacco smoke do not bother us. I and my DW grew up in the mid 20th century when smoking was a normal activity and the smoking car on trains was a place one could easily find a seat. I remember several times on elevator rides in NY skyscrapers where ashtrays were omnipresent and some folks even puffed on pipes and cigars as we traveled vertically.

 

We began our cruise "habit" in the late 1980's (and what a great habit it is!) and the issue of smoking on board evolved from then, where there were no balcony cabins and smoking was generally permitted anywhere on board except in a few areas (engine rooms, etc.).

 

Then the anti-smoking efforts in general became increasingly popular with steadily increasing restrictions on where one could smoke.

 

The "elephant in the room" was/is the increasing legal and regulatory involvement of various levels of government including, especially, law enforcement.

 

It was about 10 years ago that Carnival launched a newbuild, the Paradise, which was a smoke free ship. That experiment failed because not enough people booked cruises on Paradise for some reason. (Some say it was their smoking prohibition while others say it was they had lousy itineraries assigned to Paradise.) Carnival abandoned the policy and Paradise was added as just another ship in the fleet.

 

The historic lesson from all this is that anti-smoking rule enforcement requires more than a company's "policy statement" and essentially voluntary compliance by smokers. It requires a legal basis and enforcement capabilities that are available to enforce the legal aspect. That's not available on board a cruise ship except in a manner similar to the procedures employed by Carnival in its failed Paradise experiment.

 

The vignettes cited in this thread about second hand smoking experiences on lines with, arguably, more restrictive smoking policies than HAL demonstrate that the absolute prohibition of all smoking activity on board cruise ships can only occur with a re-institution of the rules originally established in the Paradise experiment.

 

Perhaps the market is now ready for such a restart, but there are no cruise lines willing to be the first to give it a try.

 

Although we aren't bothered by occasional whiffs of tobacco smoke, it also wouldn't bother us at all if smoking were, indeed, totally prohibited on a cruise ship. Except one thing. How would such a policy affect the stock price of the cruise line that tries it first?

 

Actually Paradise was launched in the late 1990s. Significantly more than 10 years ago. As end of the line in Fantasy class ships she was overshadowed by other newer ships and yes the itineraries were repetitive and dull. Comparing banishment on one ship of a fleet to banishment on an entire fleet is apples to oranges.

 

Finally no legal basis is required for any cruise line to banish balcony or ships interior smoking. Their ship, their choice.

 

I'm not in favor of total banishment by the way

[kennicott]

So it sounds to me that smokers should migrate over to Celebrity. Even though balcony smoking is not allowed, it seems there are many more places then one small section at an outside bar or a balcony to be able to light up.

 

That is quite a pronouncement, hard core smokers should flock to Celebrity from HAL. Surely you jest.

 

CELEBRITY CRUISES

 

Where You Can Smoke: Cigarette smoking is only permitted in designated indoor and outdoor areas. Examples include the port side of the pool deck and sundecks on each ship; the port side of the Sunset Bar on Celebrity Century and on Celebrity's Millennium class of ships; and the port side, aft, outside of Winter Garden on Celebrity Galaxy and Celebrity Mercury.

 

Where You Can't: Smoking is prohibited in cabins and on balconies. Also, smoking is not permitted in any dining venue, casino, theater, hallway, elevator or corridor. On Celebrity's Solstice class, the Lawn Club and the Sunset Bar at the Lawn Club don't allow smoking.

 

Cigar and Pipe Smoking: Cigar and pipe smoking is allowed only in specially designated sections of the open decks.

 

HOLLAND AMERICA LINE

 

Where You Can Smoke: Smoking is permitted on cabin balconies (not inside the cabins), open decks, the casino and Seaview Bar. E-cigarettes can be smoked inside the cabins, but not in other designated areas throughout the ship.

 

Where You Can't: All cabins (with the exception of balconies), restaurants and most indoor areas (including showrooms) are non-smoking.

 

Cigar and Pipe Smoking: Cigar and pipe smoking is prohibited inside; it is only allowed on outside decks and on cabin balconies.

[Wastegirl]

I was not saying HAL was any better or worse regarding smoking policies when I commented on my recent Celebrity Cruise. I was more commenting on how surprised I was on the amount of public areas that Celebrity had designated to smokers. Public Areas that sometimes I walked through until I worked out that maybe it was better to take the longer route around the smokers.

 

Smokers tend to be social people so consequently instead of a lone smoker on a balcony you would have 20 odd people all sitting/lounging around in one area smoking furiously. There was so much smoke it drifted into surrounding areas as there was no physical demarcation point.

 

Maybe I have been lucky on HAL as I have never experienced smoking on the balconies and I could easily avoid the casino and the starboard side of the rear deck. But on the Solstice smoking certainly did impact on me more than the Oosterdam.

 

What ships need is a Smoking Room - set up very nicely with good views, a bar, good ventilation, but closed off from other areas so there is no smoke leakage.

[Lizzie68]

I don't disagree at all. As I said earlier, we can handle occasional whiffs. We avoid the casinos, for example, because they have entirely too much smoke (and also because I have totally lousy luck when I gamble).

 

You missed my point. The only way smoking will ever be snuffed out (pun intended) is by a total ban, not by half measures like banning smoking in specified areas. So long as our investments in CCL and RCI are not negatively impacted by a total smoking ban, we're all in for that change.

 

But we have noticed, and are less than ambivalent about, those few people who make anti-smoking an obsession such as when we saw a woman complaining loudly and obnoxiously about a person who was smoking what turned out to be a smokeless e-cigarette.

 

There are also rules regarding where you can puff away on your e-cig. I cannot comment - obviously - on whether the complainer was obnoxious or not, but perhaps the smoker was flagrantly defying the rules, as on our last cruise where two pax strolled through the promenade shopping area puffing away. Many of the e-cigs do, in fact, contain noxious substances. And the vapour, while not actually smoke, can fill an area very quickly. The unfortunate aspect of electronic cigarettes is the upsurge in vape stores, where they are using flavours to attract kids to smoking.

[kjw869]

;)

That is quite a pronouncement, hard core smokers should flock to Celebrity from HAL. Surely you jest.

 

Of course I jest. (I just wanted to see if someone would bite on this one).;)

 

Yes, Celebrity has stricter smoking rules, but that means nothing to some smokers. :eek:

 

I had no idea there were so many public areas to smoke on Celebrity. Where are the "designated indoor areas"? Does HAL allow smoking in indoor areas other than the casino?

Edited March 17, 2015 by kjw869

[babyher]

There are also rules regarding where you can puff away on your e-cig. I cannot comment - obviously - on whether the complainer was obnoxious or not, but perhaps the smoker was flagrantly defying the rules, as on our last cruise where two pax strolled through the promenade shopping area puffing away. Many of the e-cigs do, in fact, contain noxious substances. And the vapour, while not actually smoke, can fill an area very quickly. The unfortunate aspect of electronic cigarettes is the upsurge in vape stores, where they are using flavours to attract kids to smoking.

 

Really??? The vape stores near me (of which there are several ) don't even allow anyone under 18 in the stores , and have big signs out front saying so.

[Cindy]

That is quite a pronouncement, hard core smokers should flock to Celebrity from HAL. Surely you jest.

 

CELEBRITY CRUISES

 

Where You Can Smoke: Cigarette smoking is only permitted in designated indoor and outdoor areas. Examples include the port side of the pool deck and sundecks on each ship; the port side of the Sunset Bar on Celebrity Century and on Celebrity's Millennium class of ships; and the port side, aft, outside of Winter Garden on Celebrity Galaxy and Celebrity Mercury.

 

Where You Can't: Smoking is prohibited in cabins and on balconies. Also, smoking is not permitted in any dining venue, casino, theater, hallway, elevator or corridor. On Celebrity's Solstice class, the Lawn Club and the Sunset Bar at the Lawn Club don't allow smoking.

 

Cigar and Pipe Smoking: Cigar and pipe smoking is allowed only in specially designated sections of the open decks.

 

HOLLAND AMERICA LINE

 

Where You Can Smoke: Smoking is permitted on cabin balconies (not inside the cabins), open decks, the casino and Seaview Bar. E-cigarettes can be smoked inside the cabins, but not in other designated areas throughout the ship.

 

Where You Can't: All cabins (with the exception of balconies), restaurants and most indoor areas (including showrooms) are non-smoking.

 

Cigar and Pipe Smoking: Cigar and pipe smoking is prohibited inside; it is only allowed on outside decks and on cabin balconies.

 

 

That Celebrity policy is very old...Galaxy and Mercury are no longer part of the Celebrity fleet.

 

There is no indoor smoking allowed anywhere on Celebrity, including the casino or the bars where it was formerly permissible.

[CRUZBUDS]

That Celebrity policy is very old...Galaxy and Mercury are no longer part of the Celebrity fleet.

 

Nothing ever goes away on the internet -- wow, that is an old policy, the Galaxy left the Celebrity fleet six years ago. :)

Edited March 17, 2015 by CRUZBUDS

[Lizzie68]

Really??? The vape stores near me (of which there are several ) don't even allow anyone under 18 in the stores , and have big signs out front saying so.

 

And no teenager ever was able to get something they shouldn't have, like booze or smokes.:rolleyes: That aside, thankfully in my town they are cracking down on the vape stores, exactly for this reason.

[kjw869]

That Celebrity policy is very old...Galaxy and Mercury are no longer part of the Celebrity fleet.

 

There is no indoor smoking allowed anywhere on Celebrity, including the casino or the bars where it was formerly permissible.

 

Thanks for the clear answer Cindy. I was curious for a cruise line that has strict smoking policies that there would be "indoor areas" for smokers. I thought maybe there was a smoking lounge, that HAL should consider when revising their policy.

[LMaxwell]

I thought maybe there was a smoking lounge, that HAL should consider when revising their policy.

 

Smokers claim they are the spenders, but the data must spell out a different story as indoor smoking lounge/bars are disappearing across all fleets. Surely if the smokers spent as much as claimed the cruise line would dedicate one bar or lounge as a smoking area to capitalize on their expenditures.

[kjw869]

Smokers claim they are the spenders, but the data must spell out a different story as indoor smoking lounge/bars are disappearing across all fleets. Surely if the smokers spent as much as claimed the cruise line would dedicate one bar or lounge as a smoking area to capitalize on their expenditures.

 

When the state I live in, Wisconsin, banned all smoking from the restaurants and bars a few years back, the owners claimed it would kill there business. Milwaukee was the beer capital of the US years ago, so there are thousands of bars in the city. In some old residential areas, there is at least one bar on every corner of an intersection.

 

Well, nothing has changed, the restaurants are jammed along with every bar in the city--mostly every night.

Edited March 17, 2015 by kjw869

[Aquahound]

Thanks for the clear answer Cindy. I was curious for a cruise line that has strict smoking policies that there would be "indoor areas" for smokers. I thought maybe there was a smoking lounge, that HAL should consider when revising their policy.

 

When Celebrity first went to this policy, a small section of one interior lounge still allowed smoking. On Solstice, it was the port side of Sky Lounge, which is the lounge all the way up top and forward, like the Crow's Nest. It was one small area behind the stage. I don't know if there were complaints or what, but one year later in 2010 when I cruised Solstice again, this designated section was eliminated. So I know all Celebrity ships have been 100% smoke free inside for at least 5 years now.

Edited March 17, 2015 by Aquahound

[kjw869]

When Celebrity first went to this policy, a small section of one interior lounge still allowed smoking. On Solstice, it was the port side of Sky Lounge, which is the lounge all the way up top and forward, like the Crow's Nest. It was one small area behind the stage. I don't know if there were complaints or what, but one year later in 2010 when I cruised Solstice again, this designated section was eliminated. So I know all Celebrity ships have been 100% smoke free inside for at least 5 years now.

 

Thanks for the answer. I was curious when the poster cited Inside areas on Celebrity ships that allowed smoking. One of my employees, who is in her mid 20s, is a smoker and has sailed Celebrity twice and said she knew of no such smoking areas. She goes with four of her girls friends every year either on a cruise or Cancun land vacation and has no desire to sail on a HAL ship.

[sammiedawg]

Yup. Why do I get the feeling that HAL drew the short straw in the boardroom.:rolleyes:

 

This is the most astute comment ever written on this 90ish page thread.

[kennicott]

When Celebrity first went to this policy, a small section of one interior lounge still allowed smoking. On Solstice, it was the port side of Sky Lounge, which is the lounge all the way up top and forward, like the Crow's Nest. It was one small area behind the stage. I don't know if there were complaints or what, but one year later in 2010 when I cruised Solstice again, this designated section was eliminated. So I know all Celebrity ships have been 100% smoke free inside for at least 5 years now.

 

Thanks, here's where I got it, sounds like C.C. needs to do a little tuning.

 

http://www.cruisecritic.com/articles.cfm?ID=225