This Thread Is To Be Used For All Discussions About HAL's On Board Smoking Policies

[Lizzie68]

Huh? :confused: As much as I wish that were true, I've never heard of any such thing.

 

Oh yes, it's true.

[kennicott]

Huh? :confused: As much as I wish that were true, I've never heard of any such thing.

 

I hadn't either, but that doesn't make it not so. Since I spend almost all my summers within a National Park and Preserve, and Glacier Bay National Park and Preserve is one of those in Alaska, I know there isn't any such general rule. However, we are talking just Glacier Bay itself here, and the NPS has some real restrictions upon the number of cruise ships allowed to enter every year, and what they must and must not do when in there. They limit the number to two per day, 92 total in the shoulder seasons and 153 in the peak season.

 

Princess and HAL are the two grand-fathered lines, due there longevity of serving Alaska. All the rest must obtain permits on a bid basis. Carnival, NCL and Crystal are three others currently allowed, maybe there are more who aren't on the list. There have been lines caught in violation and have been suspended from entering Glacier Bay.

 

The NPS controls this all by issuing permits to each line. The permits impose extensive and expensive restrictions, and other obligations. It wouldn't surprise me if HAL decided to close all outside smoking in order to comply with a number of these provisions. I can see in the rules where the cruise line has to prevent any object from going over board. In addition, they have to provide, for the NPS interpretative rangers, large smoke free areas on the open deck for passengers listening to the presentations. The NPS has to approve these locations in advance.

 

The NPS doesn't fool around here, they won a major battle when they pretty much stopped commercial salmon fishing inside the bay. Much of the public, the fishermen, environmentalists, etc. are not particularly enamored with the cruise line business and are watching close, the cruise ships get away with anything significant and they may find themselves outside looking in.

 

http://www.nps.gov/glba/learn/management/cruise-ships.htm

 

http://www.nps.gov/glba/learn/management/upload/GLBA007_10NCL.pdf

Edited March 29, 2015 by kennicott

[IRL_Joanie]

I hadn't either, but that doesn't make it not so. Since I spend almost all my summers within a National Park and Preserve, and Glacier Bay National Park and Preserve is one of those in Alaska, I know there isn't any such general rule. However, we are talking just Glacier Bay itself here, and the NPS has some real restrictions upon the number of cruise ships allowed to enter every year, and what they must and must not do when in there. They limit the number to two per day, 92 total in the shoulder seasons and 153 in the peak season.

 

Princess and HAL are the two grand-fathered lines, due there longevity of serving Alaska. All the rest must obtain permits on a bid basis. Carnival, NCL and Crystal are three others currently allowed, maybe there are more who aren't on the list. There have been lines caught in violation and have been suspended from entering Glacier Bay.

 

The NPS controls this all by issuing permits to each line. The permits impose extensive and expensive restrictions, and other obligations. It wouldn't surprise me if HAL decided to close all outside smoking in order to comply with a number of these provisions. I can see in the rules where the cruise line has to prevent any object from going over board. In addition, they have to provide, for the NPS interpretative rangers, large smoke free areas on the open deck for passengers listening to the presentations. The NPS has to approve these locations in advance.

 

The NPS doesn't fool around here, they won a major battle when they pretty much stopped commercial salmon fishing inside the bay. Much of the public, the fishermen, environmentalists, etc. are not particularly enamored with the cruise line business and are watching close, the cruise ships get away with anything significant and they may find themselves outside looking in.

 

http://www.nps.gov/glba/learn/management/cruise-ships.htm

 

http://www.nps.gov/glba/learn/management/upload/GLBA007_10NCL.pdf

 

Thank You for this information. I knew there were restric tions but not to the extent and why. I really appreciate the knowledge that you share with us:)

 

Again, Thank You!!

 

EDITED: Forgot to mention to others who think smokers lose their sense of smell. I know first hand, and I am not alone, that smokers tend to have their sense of smell increase, in some cases it increases to the point of causing life threatening medical emergencies in normal situations:( But that is another matter that I will not go into on this thread. I mention it only to counteract the fallacy of smokers sense of smell.

 

Joanie

Edited March 29, 2015 by IRL_Joanie

[whogo]

EDITED: Forgot to mention to others who think smokers lose their sense of smell. I know first hand, and I am not alone, that smokers tend to have their sense of smell increase, in some cases it increases to the point of causing life threatening medical emergencies in normal situations:( But that is another matter that I will not go into on this thread. I mention it only to counteract the fallacy of smokers sense of smell.

 

Joanie

Science disagrees with you on this one.

[Lizzie68]

Science disagrees with you on this one.

 

As do I, as a former smoker.:rolleyes:

[sail7seas]

Science disagrees with you on this one.

 

I have had Executive Chefs comment they don't smoke as it not only diminishes their sense of smell but also taste. Not too many excellent chefs smoke on a regular basis. Maybe one here or there but no pack a dayers for great Chefs.

 

[Aquahound]

Oh yes, it's true.

 

I hadn't either, but that doesn't make it not so.

 

I cruised Glacier Bay on the Zuiderdam last summer and I never heard any such rule. In fact, I just looked through my Glacier Bay photos and look what I found...

 

http://im1.shutterfly.com/media/47a4d936b3127ccef6f6243011f600000030O02AcuWLZu2bNge3nwQ/cC/f%3D0/ls%3D00600667619920140717173428484.JPG/ps%3D50/r%3D0/rx%3D720/ry%3D480/

 

Two women sitting there, right in front of a glacier, smoking...using their HAL provided ash trays.

 

(Sorry for the link. For some reason, either Shutterfly or CC isn't letting me paste pictures anymore)

[Hlitner]

Thank You for this information. I knew there were restric tions but not to the extent and why. I really appreciate the knowledge that you share with us:)

 

Again, Thank You!!

 

EDITED: Forgot to mention to others who think smokers lose their sense of smell. I know first hand, and I am not alone, that smokers tend to have their sense of smell increase, in some cases it increases to the point of causing life threatening medical emergencies in normal situations:( But that is another matter that I will not go into on this thread. I mention it only to counteract the fallacy of smokers sense of smell.

 

Joanie

 

Smoking is currently your right and choice. But do not kid yourself about the negative impact of smoking on nearly all health functions. As far as smell, here is a short excerpt from the American Academy of Otolarlarynology:

 

"Tobacco smoking is the most concentrated form of pollution that most people are exposed to. It impairs the ability to identify odors and diminishes the sense of taste. Quitting smoking improves the smell function."

 

If you want to read the entire article you can find it at

http://www.entnet.org/content/smell-taste

 

And if you simply Google "sense of smell and smoking" you will find many other similar references and no studies to support what you say.

 

This is a very interesting CC thread and lets try to keep it fact-based.

 

Hank

[Champagne Cruiser]

I only book HAL when there is a last minute amazing deal because of their smoking policy. It's really a shame since we love Half Moon Cay and Grand Turk which Celebrity does not visit. We book Celebrity first because of their more restrictive smoking policy.

[ellie1145]

EDITED: Forgot to mention to others who think smokers lose their sense of smell. I know first hand, and I am not alone, that smokers tend to have their sense of smell increase, in some cases it increases to the point of causing life threatening medical emergencies in normal situations:( But that is another matter that I will not go into on this thread. I mention it only to counteract the fallacy of smokers sense of smell.

 

Joanie

 

If it really is true, that smokers have a heightened sense of smell, then why on earth do they seem totally unaware of how much they, their breath and their clothes smell????

 

Anyone with a heightened sense of smell would be horrified at how much they stink like a dirty old ashtray.

[Folk Singer]

We agree with the no smoking rules only in designated areas.

[sammiedawg]

I cannot imagine lighting up in the most pristine of places, Glacier Bay.

Holland America was fined a while back for having an on deck barbecue in Glacier Bay, this was told to me by a crew member.

We are Glacier Bay affectionados, we are visiting for the sixth time in May. Five of the trips were on Princess, one on Zaandam in 2003. They had the BBQ in Glacier Bay which surprised me.

[Host Walt]

If the neighbors were smoking on the balcony while the ship was in Glacier Bay, they were violating the rules, and should have been reported.

 

It is announced, as well as in the daily program, that there is to be no smoking on outside decks while in the national park.

I believe, if I recall correctly, that was also the rule back in 1987, when we visited Glacier Bay for the first time aboard the (old) Nieuw Amsterdam.

 

There were no balconies on that ship but there also were no smoking restrictions that I recall anywhere on the ship. We gathered on the forward open deck to enjoy the wonderful experience of sailing into Glacier Bay and had a Park Ranger provide the narration.

 

The Park Ranger made it quite clear that smoking while in the Glacier Bay was prohibited. Also prohibited was throwing food over the rails to feed the fish and throwing litter of any kind.

 

Off topic, but the most memorable scene on that first sailing was when we sailed out of Glacier Bay in late afternoon and had the rear deck all to ourselves as we looked back on the bay and the glacier, then the magnificent tree growth all along the channel. That's when I wish we had a movie camera to record that natural beauty. (Remember thatw as back in 1987 when cell phones did not exist and video tape cameras, while available, where big clunky things that cost a big bunch.)

[cruz chic]

If it really is true, that smokers have a heightened sense of smell, then why on earth do they seem totally unaware of how much they, their breath and their clothes smell????

 

Anyone with a heightened sense of smell would be horrified at how much they stink like a dirty old ashtray.

 

Exactly.

[tip]

If it really is true, that smokers have a heightened sense of smell, then why on earth do they seem totally unaware of how much they, their breath and their clothes smell????

 

Anyone with a heightened sense of smell would be horrified at how much they stink like a dirty old ashtray.

 

Thank you and very well said. And to keep this cruise related, I have noticed this many times while next to folks in casinos, on the promenade, in tenders, during shows, playing trivia, (etc., etc., etc.) while cruising. And before someone else mentions it, the same for perfume.

[CRUZBUDS]

I'd guess a lot of the reason the no smoking rule in Glacier Bay, may be do the unfortunate habit many smokers have of just flicking their used butt anywhere they happen to be.

 

yes, there are also many smokers who make an effort to use an ash tray. I have no idea of the ratio may be, but the butts you see in the gutters and sidewalks, got there courtesy of a smoker. :rolleyes:

 

 

[Minoushka]

On Noordam because it was too cold to smoke outdoors people pretended to play at the casino to be able to smoke ..one guy plYed a penny ...yup just one penny ......to chain smoke next to me ...i had to leave he would not stop and I wanted to play ...no fair

[mightycruisequeen]

EDITED: Forgot to mention to others who think smokers lose their sense of smell. I know first hand, and I am not alone, that smokers tend to have their sense of smell increase, in some cases it increases to the point of causing life threatening medical emergencies in normal situations:( But that is another matter that I will not go into on this thread. I mention it only to counteract the fallacy of smokers sense of smell.

 

Okay, I can easily believe that smokers have life threatening medical emergencies, but are you really expecting anyone to believe that the cause could possibly be a smoker's heightened sense of smell?

[RuthC]

On Noordam because it was too cold to smoke outdoors people pretended to play at the casino to be able to smoke ..one guy plYed a penny ...yup just one penny ......to chain smoke next to me ...i had to leave he would not stop and I wanted to play ...no fair

What's "no fair" is that HAL doesn't provide an indoor room exclusively for smoking, not that a smoker used the only provided room when you wanted to be there.

Blame the proper party. There are many occasions when the decks are closed off, and smokers have one place to go to smoke on the ships.

[LMaxwell]

What's "no fair" is that HAL doesn't provide an indoor room exclusively for smoking, not that a smoker used the only provided room when you wanted to be there.

Blame the proper party. There are many occasions when the decks are closed off, and smokers have one place to go to smoke on the ships.

 

If smokers had the high spend rate that they claim to have, wouldn't the cruise line want to supply at least one indoor bar where smoking was permitted? Obviously HAL has access to troves of data and has not decided the need to provide a smoking venue beyond the casino. One could easily extrapolate that they would not do more business with a smoking permitted bar than their current setup.

[idiebabe]

You didn't mention what month it was you observed so many smokers on the balconies of the NCL Dawn (Taking place on over 50% of the balconies you could see). Since NCL new smoking policy did not even go into effect until late last year, would it have been possible that those smoking weren't in non-compliance with the NCL policy at that time? Maybe they were getting their last puffs in?

 

As this C.C. article regarding NCL smoking points out, NCL and Carnival were the last hold outs, except for HAL of course. We were on the Royal Princess in September and the Coral Princess in January and didn't observe a single violation of the balcony non-smoking rules or for that matter a violation of such anywhere else on the ships.

 

http://www.cruisecritic.com/news/news.cfm?ID=5916

 

I was on the Ryndam the week of March 8th and the date was March 13, 2015 and the Port was Costa Maya as mentioned. NCL and Carnival went Smoke-Free on Balconies in Fall, 2014. We were actually quite surprised that there was no effort to hide it from the Room Attendants in the morning. We pulled out first and they were leaving shortly after us. Many were out on the Balconies and no one seemed fazed even those who were standing at the rail next to balconies with people smoking.

 

People are still smoking on balconies on all the lines (I don't know as freely as the NCL Dawn). Maybe you just didn't notice especially if the Ship is moving at 16 - 18 knots. My Sister who's a non-smoker and travels with a non-smoker had a smoker next to her balcony when she was on Princess and didn't know it until half way through the cruise the man asked his Wife to get his smokes. She said she couldn't smell it but she also doesn't care one way or the other.

 

Over the years since restrictions started getting tighter and tighter we have never seen any issues or heard any complaints on any of the Ships (and we cruise 8 - 9 times a year). We have seen though on some cruises those people who will hold their nose, hand-wave or do the fake cough thingy while walking through the Casino Area. My Daughter who also cruises multi times per year has also never seen any type of issues with people complaining until she saw those obnoxious non-smokers who knowingly sat in the Designated Smoking Area last week at the Seaview Bar on the Westerdam and give grief to the Bar Server and the Officer. Everyone there felt so bad for the Bar Server and Officer for the way those people treated them! :eek:

 

Much of the hype seems to be on the Social Media sites rather than on the Ships themselves! TG that everyone seems to get along better when they are on a Cruise Ship than when they are posting on "smoking threads"! :D

[RuthC]

If smokers had the high spend rate that they claim to have, wouldn't the cruise line want to supply at least one indoor bar where smoking was permitted? Obviously HAL has access to troves of data and has not decided the need to provide a smoking venue beyond the casino. One could easily extrapolate that they would not do more business with a smoking permitted bar than their current setup.

So, you think it's all right to leave the Casino as the only indoor smoking area, even though it makes it uncomfortable for non-smokers is what you're saying.

I disagree.

[albingirl]

So, you think it's all right to leave the Casino as the only indoor smoking area, even though it makes it uncomfortable for non-smokers is what you're saying.

I disagree.

Ruth, it's fairly hard to figure out where another smoking space could be found. You've often said smokers need an indoor space, and I don't disagree, but where would that be?

[LMaxwell]

So, you think it's all right to leave the Casino as the only indoor smoking area, even though it makes it uncomfortable for non-smokers is what you're saying.

I disagree.

That's not what I have said at all. Not even remotely close. I will thank you to not stuff words in my mouth.

 

All I said, and I repeat myself for clarity, was that HAL has the data to support whether adding another indoor venue that permits smoking would be profitable or not. Since no such venues exist we can all reasonably extrapolate that revenue would be below current levels. Hence no additional indoor smoking venue. Furthermore it sort of blows away the myth that smokers are the big spenders that so many claim they are. The facts of the matter don't support the claims, logically speaking.

[kennicott]

I was on the Ryndam the week of March 8th and the date was March 13, 2015 and the Port was Costa Maya as mentioned. NCL and Carnival went Smoke-Free on Balconies in Fall, 2014. We were actually quite surprised that there was no effort to hide it from the Room Attendants in the morning. We pulled out first and they were leaving shortly after us. Many were out on the Balconies and no one seemed fazed even those who were standing at the rail next to balconies with people smoking.

 

People are still smoking on balconies on all the lines (I don't know as freely as the NCL Dawn). Maybe you just didn't notice especially if the Ship is moving at 16 - 18 knots. My Sister who's a non-smoker and travels with a non-smoker had a smoker next to her balcony when she was on Princess and didn't know it until half way through the cruise the man asked his Wife to get his smokes. She said she couldn't smell it but she also doesn't care one way or the other.:D

 

Like I indicated, it was late in the 2014 year, November 1st, when NCLs new restrictions took effect. Your observation took place 13 weeks later. Now, the violations you observed were not good, but after all, that was pretty close to when the new rule took place and if there were a bunch of disgruntled NCL faithful smoker types on board, they might have been demonstrating their agitation in mass. Not quite the same as blatant violations of smoking policies that have been in effect for some time.

 

As I have posted before, apparently there are a few smokers who break the no smoking rules of various lines from time to time, but we haven't ever encountered evidence of this. I have a difficult time believing that there is wholesale disregard of smoking on balcony rules on lines like Celebrity and others that we have not been on. Since, for instance, beginning in September we have cruised on the Royal Princess, Seven Seas Mariner and the Coral Princess, 63 days sailing days total, we always get a balcony. None allow balcony smoking but do allow casino smoking. No problem what so ever with violators did I witness.

 

"Beginning November 2014, smokers won't be able to light up on their cruise ship balconies when sailing Norwegian Cruise Line. Norwegian is the second major cruise line in eight days to extinguish cigarette smoking on cruise ship balconies."

 

" Passengers interested in canceling a sailing booked for after the smoking ban goes into affect may do so under Norwegian Cruise Line's normal cancellation policy. The November 1 effective date gives most people that want to cancel the opportunity to do so without penalty, a spokesperson for the line said."

 

With respect to your balcony observation: Using a balcony is different than instinct may suggest. We have almost 600 days at sea, most of it with balconies. Rarely have we occasioned a movement of air on the balcony in the range of over just a few knots. Up high on the open decks, sailing into a head wind, yes, but then sometimes a following wind cancels even that out. Furthermore, at least 50% of the use of a balcony comes on port days, when tied up to a pier or at anchor.

Edited March 31, 2015 by kennicott