This Thread Is To Be Used For All Discussions About HAL's On Board Smoking Policies

[Cashew14]

Even if HAL would be following this board, they would come to the conclusion that it is always the same few "anti smokers" who are complaining the most often...how can they take this seriously....

[iancal]

Last time I checked the cruise lines do not listen to me.

 

So we simply vote with our feet and with our wallets on many issues. It is better that moaning and groaning about shipboard policies, etc that we do not necessarily like.

 

So DW does not like smoke...that cancels out the possibility of any HAL cruise where we want a verandah cabin. Why take a chance? Same goes for some things that we do not like on other lines. Fortunately there is lots of choice out there.

Edited December 13, 2014 by iancal

[sail7seas]

Just a question....

 

Where does the crew smoke on the ship's?

 

I have seen many crew member's get off the ship's in port and the first thing that they do is light up.

 

Just curious.

 

Crew have very few places aboard where they are allowed to smoke. It is my understanding crew cannot smoke in their dining area and I don't think in their cabins.

 

 

Or, they could be following this thread and realize that making such a change would not reduce the complaints one iota---so why bother.

 

 

 

While it may seem otherwise, I truly do not understand how a ship can have one side verandah with smoking and the other with no smoking. There are far fewer guests who want smoking verandahs than a full half of the number on one side of the ship. If the percentage is in the range of 20%, what about the other 30% of the verandah cabins on the smoking side? Maybe not all but many Non-smokers won't want them.

 

If I am missing something obvious, please explain.

 

Edited December 13, 2014 by sail7seas

[RuthC]

If I am missing something obvious, please explain.

What you are missing is

Right now you have 100% of both sides of the ship smoking. A change to one side only reduces that by one entire side. People then have a choice of smoking, non-smoking, or "I don't care".

It is not 20% smokers, and 80% who don't want smoke near them. There is a large, undefined, group who don't care one way or the other.

It does not have to be one full side smoking allowed. The "smoking" balconies could be otherwise limited to such as aft and higher decks, or some other arrangement.

 

The point is that to insist on "All or nothing at all" is short-sighted. A cut-back is a cut-back, even if it isn't full measure of what the rabid anti-smokers want.

The rest of the cutbacks to smoking areas on the ship weren't all done at once, either.

[cruz chic]

I'm very puzzled about the implication that non smokers want no smoking anywhere. I've rarely read that here at all. I also find it interesting that some posters that never book balconies like to suggest what the policy should be. I imagine this wil all be a moot point by the middle of next year.

[RuthC]

I'm very puzzled about the implication that non smokers want no smoking anywhere.

I don't recall reading that. I certainly don't recall reading that recently.

I also find it interesting that some posters that never book balconies like to suggest what the policy should be.

Ever member of this forum has a right to an opinion, and the right to post it---within CC guidelines.

Just in case it hasn't occurred to you, people who don't have balconies have a vested interest in the smoking policy for every area of the ship. If balcony smoking is taken away, smokers will smoke in public areas. Either the current areas will be increased in number, taking public space from others, in area, again taking public space, or will be concentrated in the current areas, making them even more smelly than they are now.

 

You sound as if you are opposed to reducing the number of balcony cabins that allow smoking unless it is all of them at once.

[Sow There]

I note that 20% seems to be the proportion of smokers some feel are HAL passengers. That percentage was stated by Sail7Seas and confirmed by tghe CDC (theirs was 18%) as being the percentage of all US population over 18 who smoke.

 

However, as far as I know there is no information available as to what percentage of HAL passengers currently are smokers, nor is there any information about how many potential HAL customers won't (or will) book a cruise because of HAL's smoking policies.

 

Also the CDC survey did not consider anything beyond the US population so it says nothing at all about non-US nationals who book or might want to book a HAL cruise.

 

Who knows if making the port side veranda cabins no smoking and the starboard side cabins smoking will do the job without knowing smoking propensities.

 

And RuthC adds the real kicker; the "don't care" group. That's our group. Neither my wife nor I smoke but we both can easily coexist with moderate smokers, especially on verandas, with no problem.

 

In other words when filling a 1300 passenger ship it's difficult enough for the HAL folks to deal with passengers with special needs (accessibility standards). To assign cabins based on a stated smoking preference would make the entire reservation process very difficult to to administer.

 

For example, what happens when an itinerary is more attractive to an international community (an Australian/New Zealand cruise) that has a higher smoking demographic than the US community, and all smoking cabins are booked full with the non smoking rooms being easily available? HAL will be losing bookings. That won't happen.

 

The only real action that seems possible and that has any potential is for people to express their preferences by communicating with HAL by mail or email.

[cruz chic]

I cruise other lines that don't allow balcony smoking. The areas that do allow it are no more smelly then they were before. That is a red herring. This subject is tiresome. I have better ways to spend my day.

[iancal]

We will frequent the casino on a Celebrity ship.

 

Won't even walk through the casino on HAL. It reeks.

Edited December 13, 2014 by iancal

[kennicott]

Well, I've given it some thought, and I don't see the problem.

As things stand I cannot book a balcony cabin, because I won't suffer something I hate, and avoid on land. Whereas if port side was strictly no smoking on balconies, and starboard was smoking permitted, I could book a balcony.

Please explain the problem with that. It seems a fair compromise to me.

 

This is no doubt a very good question under present circumstances. Those circumstances are that, relatively recently all lines who had previously allowed smoking on their balconies discontinued the practice, with the lone exception of HAL. Therefore, it is subject to conjecture and argument as to what percentage of the cruising public, who smoke, are going to select HAL now as their line of choice. If those who suggest that smokers are going to flock to HAL are correct, making it the "ashtray of the sea", then it is entirely possible that smokers could occupy a significant percentage of the cabins on one or the other side of a ship.

 

However, under normal conditions, where you don't have HAL being the only game in town for smoking on balconies, we see from a number of posts here that statistically smokers comprise only about 8.9% of the normal US population age 65 and up (probably very close to the low end of the demographic age of HAL guests). However, this percentage doesn't take into account that 27.9% of those below the poverty level smoke while only 17.0% of those above do, and folks on HAL certainly are not hailing from skid row. So one would expect that about 5.5% of the guests on HAL smoke, if, the other lines were to allow balcony smoking as before. Then too, HAL caters to a lot of Europeans who tend to smoke a little more than those in the US, so that should be factored in, no doubt the percentage of smokers is going to be higher than if the ship just transported US residents, most likely not near the 10% level though. So, maybe assign one deck on one side for balcony smoking?

 

However, one deck isn't going to cut it if it turns out cruise oriented smokers, in mass, begin booking HAL. I don't believe anybody including HAL is going to know what is going to happen. My guess is that a couple of years of experience will be necessary before this sorts out. In the meantime, we have a deposit good for another 3 years plus before we lose it on HAL, so we just set back on other line's balconies and watch and wait.

 

http://www.cdc.gov/tobacco/data_statistics/fact_sheets/adult_data/cig_smoking/

[sail7seas]

What you are missing is

Right now you have 100% of both sides of the ship smoking. A change to one side only reduces that by one entire side. People then have a choice of smoking, non-smoking, or "I don't care".

It is not 20% smokers, and 80% who don't want smoke near them. There is a large, undefined, group who don't care one way or the other.

It does not have to be one full side smoking allowed. The "smoking" balconies could be otherwise limited to such as aft and higher decks, or some other arrangement.

 

The point is that to insist on "All or nothing at all" is short-sighted. A cut-back is a cut-back, even if it isn't full measure of what the rabid anti-smokers want.

The rest of the cutbacks to smoking areas on the ship weren't all done at once, either.

 

No one in this thread, that I recall, mentioned having 50% of one side of the ship with smoking verandahs or 60% or 40%. It has always, to my knowledge, been presented as 'all or nothing'. One side would permit verandah and one side would not. I would think this a reasonable thing to try. See how it goes if 25% or 30% or whatever number of the verandahs have smoking permitted.

 

I have repeatedly written on CC that I do not wish the ships to go fully non-smoking. I have written I think HAL should provide at least one outside area for smoking and an additional area with some sort of weather protection.

I also have no problem about smokers having a well-ventilated area inside the ship that can be avoided by non-smokers. I have no problem with half of aft pool being smoking and half not. I DO have a problem when I cannot use my verandah.

 

 

Also in my post above, I did not say that NO non-smokers would want to be neighbors to a smoking permitted verandah. I did qualify by stating 'Maybe Not All but many non-smokers won't want them.

 

 

 

 

 

I'm very puzzled about the implication that non smokers want no smoking anywhere. I've rarely read that here at all. I also find it interesting that some posters that never book balconies like to suggest what the policy should be. I imagine this wil all be a moot point by the middle of next year.

Edited December 13, 2014 by sail7seas

[Mary Ellen]

I also find it interesting that some posters that never book balconies like to suggest what the policy should be.

I know a "cave dweller" posting on this thread who has booked a verandah cabin when sailing on cruise line that doesn't allow smoking on verandahs. Maybe there's a reason some don't book HAL balconies. ;)

 

In the past we've booked verandah and suites on HAL but we now typically book inside cabins as we're not willing to pay for a potentially unusable verandah. We also require a shower stall but that is a different thread and the Koningsdam takes care of that need anyway.

 

Right now we (and some friends) have cabins booked for a cruise where a requirement is an aft verandah. We prefer the HAL ship and itinerary to what Princess is offering, but we also have 2 aft cabins booked with them. Which cruise we end up taking will probably come down to the smoking policy. If the rumors are true that HAL finally bans smoking on verandahs, we'll cancel the Princess cabins. Otherwise, it will be the HAL bookings that are canceled.

 

So yes, even though we currently don't cruise in HAL balconies, we do have an interest in the HAL smoking policy - and a right to express our opinion. :rolleyes:

[ODECCIT]

I know a "cave dweller" posting on this thread who has booked a verandah cabin when sailing on cruise line that doesn't allow smoking on verandahs. Maybe there's a reason some don't book HAL balconies. ;)

 

In the past we've booked verandah and suites on HAL but we now typically book inside cabins as we're not willing to pay for a potentially unusable verandah. We also require a shower stall but that is a different thread and the Koningsdam takes care of that need anyway.

 

Right now we (and some friends) have cabins booked for a cruise where a requirement is an aft verandah. We prefer the HAL ship and itinerary to what Princess is offering, but we also have 2 aft cabins booked with them. Which cruise we end up taking will probably come down to the smoking policy. If the rumors are true that HAL finally bans smoking on verandahs, we'll cancel the Princess cabins. Otherwise, it will be the HAL bookings that are canceled.

 

So yes, even though we currently don't cruise in HAL balconies, we do have an interest in the HAL smoking policy - and a right to express our opinion. :rolleyes:

Please cancel those aft cabins on HAL so smokers can book them.

[cbr663]

Even if HAL would be following this board, they would come to the conclusion that it is always the same few "anti smokers" who are complaining the most often...how can they take this seriously....

 

^Like. HAL also knows that those who protest so much continue to book cruises.

[Mary Ellen]

Please cancel those aft cabins on HAL so smokers can book them.

Won't happen until final payment for the Princess cruise (the earlier of the two). If the rumors are true and HAL policy changes, we'll be sailing in those HAL aft verandahs. :D

[hal lover]

A smoking side of this ship and a non smoking side of the ship will never even out.

 

I am to date, 19 months smokefree and I still feel that smoker's have rights but I do not agree they have the right to smoke on the balcony next to mine ( or anyone else's) and make me uncomfortable.

 

HAL needs to continue the smoking area at the outdoor pool and to make an area inside for the smoker's as long as its not the casino.

 

Many smoker's (myself included when I did smoke), do not realize how the smoke itself is nasty. When I smell it now, like at the entrance/exit at a grocery store, it is bad! The coat closet in my home is a stinker! I regret that I ever put any vistor's coat in there.

 

Also, if you are sporting an oxegen tank now, it's not OK to remove it while you go have a smoke, especially if you are on a ship where you put others at risk. This is risky behavior and you should be put off of the ship, JMHO.

[sail7seas]

^Like. HAL also knows that those who protest so much continue to book cruises.

 

Actually, I canceled the cruise had booked. I currently have no HAL cruises scheduled. What you said Used to be true about me but not now.

 

[Lizzie68]

A smoking side of this ship and a non smoking side of the ship will never even out.

 

I am to date, 19 months smokefree and I still feel that smoker's have rights but I do not agree they have the right to smoke on the balcony next to mine ( or anyone else's) and make me uncomfortable.

 

HAL needs to continue the smoking area at the outdoor pool and to make an area inside for the smoker's as long as its not the casino.

 

Many smoker's (myself included when I did smoke), do not realize how the smoke itself is nasty. When I smell it now, like at the entrance/exit at a grocery store, it is bad! The coat closet in my home is a stinker! I regret that I ever put any vistor's coat in there.

 

Also, if you are sporting an oxegen tank now, it's not OK to remove it while you go have a smoke, especially if you are on a ship where you put others at risk. This is risky behavior and you should be put off of the ship, JMHO.

 

:eek::eek::eek: Surely not??!!

 

Yours is one of the most reasoned and reasonable posts on this thread, by the way.

[QueenGlassHalfFull]

^Like. HAL also knows that those who protest so much continue to book cruises.

 

 

Not true. I have posted previously and written to HAL about the balcony smoking. Our last HAL cruise was in January 2014. Since then we have done a RCCL cruise and have a Celebrity and another RCCL cruise booked in 2015. While we have close to 400 days sailing on HAL, we won't be back until balcony smoking is prohibited on HAL. We were very loyal to HAL but no longer. We still have 2 future cruise deposits with HAL. Hopefully we get to use them before they expire in 18 months.

 

 

Sent using the Cruise Critic forums app

[Mary Ellen]

A smoking side of this ship and a non smoking side of the ship will never even out.

 

I am to date, 19 months smokefree and I still feel that smoker's have rights but I do not agree they have the right to smoke on the balcony next to mine ( or anyone else's) and make me uncomfortable.

 

HAL needs to continue the smoking area at the outdoor pool and to make an area inside for the smoker's as long as its not the casino.

 

Many smoker's (myself included when I did smoke), do not realize how the smoke itself is nasty. When I smell it now, like at the entrance/exit at a grocery store, it is bad! The coat closet in my home is a stinker! I regret that I ever put any vistor's coat in there.

 

Also, if you are sporting an oxegen tank now, it's not OK to remove it while you go have a smoke, especially if you are on a ship where you put others at risk. This is risky behavior and you should be put off of the ship, JMHO.

 

Congratulations on going smoke free!

 

When HAL had the Oak Room on Vista ships it was a great spot for smokers. As far as I'm concerned they made a big mistake in removing them. I don't remember anyone advocating HAL going entirely smoke free. They do need to provide a nice, comfortable (well ventilated) indoor environment for smokers.

 

We did try Oceania in part because of their smoking policy (the only thing we loved on that cruise was our Concierge verandah cabin). They do have an indoor smoking area in a room on the starboard side, aft of their version of the Crow's Nest. It was not ventilated properly. We just learned to avoid the starboard side of that area.

[ljcruising]

That proves there are plenty of options available to the non- smokers and ONLY 1 option for the smokers at least you have choices to pick from .... Just looking through the 39 pages and can't believe some of the research that has been compiled and I have to salute HAL for not bowing down to the pressure of politics and a few protestors like when prayer was taken out of schools and now we can't even say Christmas without getting BASHED. It is true a few can make a difference but that few seem to only think of the benifits for them not how it effects groups as a whole. Sorry if this offends anybody, no intention just an example that everybody should stand up for their rights and if there are choices be great full because one day you may be like the smokers and NOT have a choice.

 

I say smoke away on your outdoor verandah and enjoy your cruise and Have a Merry Christmas!

[PirateShark]

^Like. HAL also knows that those who protest so much continue to book cruises.

 

Umm...maybe for some. Not in our case. If they change the smoking policy to prohibiting verandah smoking we will take a look at HAL again. No judgement just our preference.

[sammiedawg]

That proves there are plenty of options available to the non- smokers and ONLY 1 option for the smokers at least you have choices to pick from .... Just looking through the 39 pages and can't believe some of the research that has been compiled and I have to salute HAL for not bowing down to the pressure of politics and a few protestors like when prayer was taken out of schools and now we can't even say Christmas without getting BASHED. It is true a few can make a difference but that few seem to only think of the benifits for them not how it effects groups as a whole. Sorry if this offends anybody, no intention just an example that everybody should stand up for their rights and if there are choices be great full because one day you may be like the smokers and NOT have a choice.

 

I say smoke away on your outdoor verandah and enjoy your cruise and Have a Merry Christmas!

 

I don't think Holland America is heroic because they allow balcony smoking. I think their reluctance to change has much more to do with their weak position within the cruise marketplace.

Now we can add prayer in schools to the diversionary discussion, right along with obesity, alcohol, perfume odors and smokestack emissions.

Edited December 14, 2014 by Host Walt
Fixed the quote formatting

[Trevor Fountain]

^Like. HAL also knows that those who protest so much continue to book cruises.

 

Correct! With NCL, Cunard, Princess etc. etc.

[Trevor Fountain]

1st Officer "Hey Captain, there's a thick fog approaching on the starboard side".

Captain " It's fine, maintain present course, it's just another HAL ship with smokers on their balconies".;)