Confused about planes/comfort

[Sheal]

Hi,

 

We have only flown trans-atlantic on Virgin twice to LHR. I am now researching flights from BOS-BCN.

 

While looking I saw flights on Air Lingus (Airbus 330-200), Air Canada (767-300), Luft 747-400, etc.

 

My husband and FIL are both 6'+. The FIL has made the trip a few times and said no to US Airways after one bad flight (not with me).

 

I see frequent flyers comment on seats and comfort but when I look at a site like seat guru all I see seat width and pitch and they all look about the same to me 31 pitch, 17-17 1/2 width.

 

How can I tell which aircraft/seats are more comfortable? Unfortunately we will be in economy. I know we don't want the ones with the electronics under us or next to the lavs but that is about it.:)

 

Thanks,

 

Sheal

[Twickenham]

The hard truth (pun intended ;)) is that there's not really much difference in economy. Certainly pay attention to the measurements - obviously, more pitch is better, as is more width. Look for airlines with some form of economy + - usually a few additional inches of pitch, and maybe slightly more recline. Or, look for an airline with premium economy - a completely different class of service, which can be several hundreds of dollars more, but a significant difference in comfort.

 

Alternately, look at what tricks/bonuses are available to you to collect enough FF miles to ride up front, in business - it can be surprising just how quickly you can accummulate miles.

[FlyerTalker]

Beyond the dimensions, I get the feeling you want a qualitative description of the seat itself. Which is a tough thing to provide. Think of it like a mattress - some like firm, some want pillowtop, some want soft. Nowdays, few seats are super cushy, as airlines are moving to "slimline" style seats with firmer padding and slim profiles. None are going to be as comfortable as your easy chair at home, none are going to be like sitting on wooden bleachers.

 

You can take trip reports for what they are - one person's evaluation of a seat. You might want to search cabin view photos on Airliners.net for some further info beyond pure numbers.

 

Perhaps a good starting point is to ask....why did FIL dislike the US experience? Was it the pitch (aka knees in his chest)? Was it the seat cushion? Was it something else? Just what is it that is important that you need to know about beyond dimensions? Without that baseline, it's a vague question and vaguer answer.

 

Finally, if you are truly concerned about the seat cushion of your seat, you can easily get inflatable travel cushions.

[Sheal]

It sounds like the economy seats are probably about the same across the board and that my next task is to see who offers some extra space to accommodate the cramped flyers.

 

My FIL's issue was that his knees hit the seat in front of him. My MIL has the opposite problem, her legs don't reach the floor.:p

 

I guess what I was trying to ask was if the spacing of the seats varied by aircraft, making a one more comfortable over another (not just in business or first class that is). I have read a few reviews where people complained that the pitch was so bad that the person in front of them was inches away once the seat reclined. This very well could have been what happened with the dear FIL.

 

Thanks,

 

Sheal

[kenish]

I guess what I was trying to ask was if the spacing of the seats varied by aircraft, making a one more comfortable over another (not just in business or first class that is).

 

Just so you have a full understanding, seat comfort and pitch are mostly at the discretion of the airline. The type of aircraft has very little to do with it, although some types of aircraft offer a better general environment than others. Think of it like a floorplan in a housing tract....the buyers are free to furnish the inside to suit. In fact, many airlines run several configurations of the same aircraft type in their fleet....a typical example is a 3-class international configuration, a 2-class domestic, and a high-density economy to leisure markets. There are 5-10 manufacturers of aircraft seats and they customize the seat designs to suit the airlines....decor, padding, electronics, etc. All this said, you really need to focus on the airline, aircraft type on your flight, and then look at Seatguru or similar to find details on seats to seek out or avoid. Note that the "better" seats usually have an up-charge nowadays.

[waterbug123]

I I have read a few reviews where people complained that the pitch was so bad that the person in front of them was inches away once the seat reclined. This very well could have been what happened with the dear FIL.

 

 

On a transatlantic flight to Europe, flights will generally be red eyes so people will recline the seats to try to sleep. Your FIL can pick another airline but he'll likely find the same situation if (when) the person in front of him tries to recline. If you can, pay extra for economy comfort/economy +, as the additional seat pitch will help. Alternatively, if you can choose an exit row you'll get a little extra room as well, just be aware that where there are 2 or more exit rows with one immediately in front of the other, only the rear-most will recline so pick that one- the person in front usually cannot recline their seat. You could also try to choose a bulkhead seat. Keep in mind though- exit rows and bulk heads seats also usually cost extra, and may not be available to choose unless you are an elite level frequent flyer.

[cruising cockroach]

You could also try to choose a bulkhead seat.

 

Some bulkheads are really close to the seats and may limit your leg room more than a seat in front of you.

[NYNC]

Last year we flew Delta to Dublin (767-300). It's been a long time since I've flown straight economy (Jetblue spoiled me). We flew economy plus which added about 150 USD each way. I was also fortunate enough to get bulkhead seats so as far as leg room we were in heaven. The down side was that the tray table was in the armrest and being a bigger guy it was a little snug but doable (sort of like being in one of those desks with the top connected to the chair). Skytrax http://www.airlinequality.com/ does have seat reviews but as has been said already it's very much subjective. Good luck!

[Bowie MeMe]

Some bulkheads are really close to the seats and may limit your leg room more than a seat in front of you.

 

Also bulkheads are often where they put infants. I only want my own infant or grandinfant anywhere near me.

 

As an economy customer, I try some of these ideas. Always aisle seat. Easy enough to talk to hubby across from aisle. Middle group of 3 -- each of us on aisle middle seat we pray stays empty! If middle seat fills we say oh darn and stay in aisle seat. Economy plus in US is a good deal. Less folks likely to pay upgrade so more chance for empty middle. Lots of military now in middle seats and some of them are so nice -- Army does even worse than Choice air for their schedules -- 49 hours door to door was the last guy going back to Hawaii base from Iran. With full flights most of the time just have to do what you gotta do. Buy up the best seat that you can afford. There will not be any surprise upgrades for the likes of us:p

[fbgd]

Trying to pick the most comfortable economy class longhaul product is akin to being asked if you'd prefer to be punched in the face or kicked in the stomach.

[waterbug123]

Some bulkheads are really close to the seats and may limit your leg room more than a seat in front of you.

 

I have seen bulkheads that don't offer additional leg room, but I have to say I wasn't aware of any that actually offered LESS leg room than regular seats. Most offer more room, if there are indeed some offering less room I'm betting they are extremely rare. And even if it's the same amount as a regular seat, you don't have anyone in front of you reclining back into your lap.

 

Also bulkheads are often where they put infants. I only want my own infant or grandinfant anywhere near me.

 

 

Depending on how many are actually in the OP's traveling party, they may be able to occupy a whole bulkhead row on one side of the aisle or the other, thus eliminating the possibility of a stranger with an infant sitting right next to them.

[Sheal]

Thanks for the suggestions. I didn't realize that the airlines designed their own interiors, I saw a comment about "A" airline using "B" aircraft and how it was compared to "X" airline that used "Y" aircraft.

 

I did look at one carrier last night but the economy + was about 50% more. I will spend more time looking.

 

As to getting FF miles, we will never have any that amount to anything since the couple times a year we fly it is on Southwest. Economy is the way we will be flying to Europe. I am grateful to have the opportunity to go every few years.

 

Sheal

[Sheal]

We do have 6 traveling, no infants.

 

I'm confused about the infants in the bulkhead thing and ending up with an infant there. Do they put the carrier and child on the floor? Where would the parents be seated? I thought, based on a trip many years ago with my own infant, that the parent held the infant during take-off/landing no matter where they sat.

 

Sheal

[Ethel5]

Where can I find out where the dreaded electronic boxes are under the seats? I'm on United Boeing 777/200 ORD to FRA. I checked SeatGuru and they're not much help as far as the boxes go.

[Twickenham]

I did look at one carrier last night but the economy + was about 50% more. I will spend more time looking.

 

What carrier? that price difference makes me think it was Premium Economy, rather than just Economy +. A much bigger upgrade, trust me.

 

As to getting FF miles, we will never have any that amount to anything since the couple times a year we fly it is on Southwest.

 

Last September 1st, I had exactly 0 Aeroplan (Air Canada) miles. As of December 31, I had over 125,000, with another 10,000 left to credit to my account from a delayed promo. No flights involved. I'm just sayin', there are ways.

 

I'm confused about the infants in the bulkhead thing and ending up with an infant there. Do they put the carrier and child on the floor? Where would the parents be seated? I thought, based on a trip many years ago with my own infant, that the parent held the infant during take-off/landing no matter where they sat.

 

There are usually change tables attached to the wall in front of the bulkhead seats, thus they like to seat families with infants there.

[cruising cockroach]

I have seen bulkheads that don't offer additional leg room, but I have to say I wasn't aware of any that actually offered LESS leg room than regular seats. Most offer more room, if there are indeed some offering less room I'm betting they are extremely rare.

 

Rare but they are out there. The most glaring example are US's 767-200s. Row 12 window/aisle pair which I had the misfortune of getting for an overnight flight. Restricted leg room even apparently exists in business class for this particular plane. I have not flown on a US 767 in a dozen years so I don't know how bad the latter is.

 

Some other premium cabin bulkhead seats can have restricted legroom. Unbelivable but true. The 1st row of Alaska 737s in FC are always the last to be chosen, as is one side on KLM 737s in BC (since renamed to Economy Plus/Comfort or some such). I have also had the misfortune to sit in these.

 

And even if it's the same amount as a regular seat, you don't have anyone in front of you reclining back into your lap.

 

It's not, and it is.

[Sheal]

What carrier? that price difference makes me think it was Premium Economy, rather than just Economy +. A much bigger upgrade, trust me.

 

 

 

 

Last September 1st, I had exactly 0 Aeroplan (Air Canada) miles. As of December 31, I had over 125,000, with another 10,000 left to credit to my account from a delayed promo. No flights involved. I'm just sayin', there are ways.

 

 

 

 

There are usually change tables attached to the wall in front of the bulkhead seats, thus they like to seat families with infants there.

 

Air Canada, and yes, I just checked it is Premium Economy. Do they offer a +?

 

I probably missed the boat on this one. I'm thinking of purchasing tickets in the next 2 months and I'm not even sure what carrier as you probably figured out from my original question.:o

[6rugrats]

Air Canada, and yes, I just checked it is Premium Economy. Do they offer a +?

 

I probably missed the boat on this one. I'm thinking of purchasing tickets in the next 2 months and I'm not even sure what carrier as you probably figured out from my original question.:o

 

The only airline that offers Economy Plus is UA.

[Twickenham]

Air Canada, and yes, I just checked it is Premium Economy. Do they offer a +?

 

I probably missed the boat on this one. I'm thinking of purchasing tickets in the next 2 months and I'm not even sure what carrier as you probably figured out from my original question.:o

 

I personally have found AC's Premium Economy rather expensive anytime I've priced it (and no, they do not offer E+). The time I flew Premium Economy was with British Airways, and it was pretty reasonable (but then, I did get an awesome seat sale).

What dates are you looking at? I just looked at BOS-BCN flights for next June, and the cheapest (by around $300) was Turkish Airlines. It will make the flight longer, but IST is a pretty nice airport, and I was very happy with TK when we flew them last week - although, we were in business, so that helped...:D

Edited August 13, 2014 by Twickenham

[Sheal]

The only airline that offers Economy Plus is UA.

 

Thanks.

[FlyerTalker]

The only airline that offers Economy Plus is UA.

Which, to follow up, means that only UA offers a product named "Economy Plus", which is a UA registered trademark. DL offers "Economy Comfort" which is a DL trademark. AA has "Main Cabin Extra", and other airlines have their own variant names. So "E+" can specifically mean UA or it can be colloquially used to cover all airlines with similar products.

 

The big thing to remember is that these are economy with a bit more room and maybe some other benefits as well. Vastly different than Premium Economy (PE) products, which involve different seats and a significantly different package of benefits.

[Sheal]

I personally have found AC's Premium Economy rather expensive anytime I've priced it (and no, they do not offer E+). The time I flew Premium Economy was with British Airways, and it was pretty reasonable (but then, I did get an awesome seat sale).

 

What dates are you looking at? I just looked at BOS-BCN flights for next June, and the cheapest (by around $300) was Turkish Airlines. It will make the flight longer, but IST is a pretty nice airport, and I was very happy with TK when we flew them last week - although, we were in business, so that helped...:D

 

Good to know Turkish was fine. Between them, Air Lingus and Air Canada the pricing is about $1100-1200 which is what I would like to pay. The flight time is a bit of a stretch though. Air Lingus' limited flights had me leaning towards Air Canada.

 

Sheal

[Twickenham]

Good to know Turkish was fine. Between them, Air Lingus and Air Canada the pricing is about $1100-1200 which is what I would like to pay. The flight time is a bit of a stretch though. Air Lingus' limited flights had me leaning towards Air Canada.

 

Sheal

 

The problem with going with Air Canada is if you have a non-stop YYZ-BCN or YUL-BCN flight, it will actually be on Air Canada Rouge, their low-cost, sardine-can carrier. 29" seat pitch. To be avoided like the plague in your situation...

[waterbug123]

We do have 6 traveling, no infants.

 

I'm confused about the infants in the bulkhead thing and ending up with an infant there. Do they put the carrier and child on the floor? Where would the parents be seated?

 

Some bulkhead seats have brackets on the bulkhead wall, into which an airline bassinet can fit. The bulkhead seats may then be held back to be assigned to someone traveling with a lap child. Once the seat belt sign is off, they can theoretically put the child in the bassinet to sleep. The parents would be assigned to the actual seats, no worries about the parents being 6 rows back and the infant stuck alone in the bassinet, LOL.

 

If the seats aren't needed for a pax with a lap child/infant, they can be assigned to other pax.

 

There are usually change tables attached to the wall in front of the bulkhead seats, thus they like to seat families with infants there.

 

Generally considered bassinets, not change tables. I would like to think pax would not actually use it as a place to change a stinky diaper. :eek:

[waterbug123]

Rare but they are out there. The most glaring example are US's 767-200s. Row 12 window/aisle pair which I had the misfortune of getting for an overnight flight. Restricted leg room even apparently exists in business class for this particular plane.

 

Some other premium cabin bulkhead seats can have restricted legroom.

 

Interesting. I had no idea there was a bulkhead seat anywhere that actually offered LESS leg room than a regular seat.

 

As for the premium cabin reference, the OP is flying economy so that's a non-issue.

 

The only airline that offers Economy Plus is UA.

 

And Delta offers what they call Economy Comfort. I believe it is similar to UA's Economy Plus, with neither being true "Premium Economy."