Beware of Spa gratuity

[e2011]

Well the fact that owners of restaurants can get away with charging full price for their food and then push the wait staff compensation off on the customer is a very bad business plan that we as consumers need to change. Stop tipping, wait staff quits, restaurant folds or increases the pay. We control what happens in this country with our wallet. In most parts of the world tipping is not even a consideration. It is not done or expected. Of course everyone has the right to tip or not tip, I am not arguing with that. Just wish in America we would get past an really bad tradition and pay people a wage that they can live on....

[ducklite]

Of course when they are "forgotten" the General Manager and most likely a higher up at corporate will be contacted when the complaint is registered. Someone in bell services may lose their job for poor service that will reflect on the hotel via YELP and internal channels. Having said that I think in this case of 20 bags there should have been at least a $20 tip and a thank you. I always tip $1 a bag because moving them is a lot of physical work. Just like I always tip a valet to get my car.

 

 

Don't count on it. With hundreds of check in's and outs each day, it happens. Try proving it happened to a given party on purpose. One bad review out I'd a hundred on Yelp doesn't matter.

[ducklite]

I know nothing about what the spa staff are paid on the ship. I do have reliable information concerning servers' date=' assistants, and stateroom hosts.

 

 

 

I concur that in the US, food servers can be paid almost nothing by their employer (often not even enough to cover the taxes that will be withheld on their estimated tips)...but that doesn't cover spa workers, beauticians, etc.

 

 

 

I would be curious to learn whether the person who does your service keeps all of the tip...or whether tips are pooled and split. And does that split include the person who comes in to clean up the room? In at least some areas of the spa, that is a person in a different uniform than the spa person doing the service.

 

 

 

Now, some will argue that the above information is irrelevant or not my business. Perhaps, but I feel that I have a right to know where my money goes.

 

 

 

Finally, all workers on the ship are provided with room and board as part of their contract. This automatically places them in a different situation than similar workers in the US. Beyond that, ALL of the non-officer level salaries on the ship are low. I was shocked when I saw a pay stub from one individual--on the ship the pay was barely above minimum wage while on land the position would likely have been unionized the the pay at least 3 times as much as she was getting. Right or wrong? That's for the worker to decide. But I don't see why a spa worker is worth the $20+ in tips that they would get IF they get to keep the 18% as opposed to the non-tipped worker getting $7 per hour from DCL!

 

 

 

Again--because I have an issue with the spa prices and tipping policy, I choose not to use the spa. So, I guess it doesn't matter to me.[/quote']

 

 

A spa worker has at least two years of training and a professional license issued by the health department or bureau of professional standards or whatever the similar in their home country would be. They are required to pay for additional CEU's on an annual basis to maintain that license.

 

They spend an hour or more dealing with flab, callouses, ingrown nails, back hair, zits, and all other nastiness that occurs in the human body. I know on the ships they are paid what amounts to a couple dollars an hour and are expected to make up the difference with their tips.

[ducklite]

Well the fact that owners of restaurants can get away with charging full price for their food and then push the wait staff compensation off on the customer is a very bad business plan that we as consumers need to change. Stop tipping, wait staff quits, restaurant folds or increases the pay. We control what happens in this country with our wallet. In most parts of the world tipping is not even a consideration. It is not done or expected. Of course everyone has the right to tip or not tip, I am not arguing with that. Just wish in America we would get past an really bad tradition and pay people a wage that they can live on....

 

 

Not tipping leads to abysmal service. I have been on a no tip cruise and service was poor. I have been to no tip restaurants in other countries and service was poor. When tips are not expected there is no incentive to perform higher than the bare minimum. I actually like our tipping culture as it rewards good service. It's unfortunate that servers have to deal with cheapskates. I'm sure they are the same one's who remove auto grants and don't tip spa personnel or bell services. We know who they are based on this thread, but they would never publicly admit it face to face.

[e2011]

Not tipping leads to abysmal service. I have been on a no tip cruise and service was poor. I have been to no tip restaurants in other countries and service was poor. When tips are not expected there is no incentive to perform higher than the bare minimum. I actually like our tipping culture as it rewards good service. It's unfortunate that servers have to deal with cheapskates. I'm sure they are the same one's who remove auto grants and don't tip spa personnel or bell services. We know who they are based on this thread, but they would never publicly admit it face to face.

 

I have also been to no tip countries and the service was fine. I have also been to tip based restaurants where the service was horrible. I think your experience has to do more with the randomness of work ethic rather than tips. Also I wonder if someone who removes auto gratuities would still be considered a cheapskate if they indeed tip at the end based on their service? Maybe in some cases they tip more than the auto gratuity if their room steward was exceptional! Lots of possibilities that make blanket statements seem kind of dumb.

[Tonka's Skipper]

The bottom line here is the standard tip is 15 to 20%.......if you don't want to tip that much its the individuals choice...but others should tip what they want.

 

No reason to make the auto tip sound like its hidden......it is clearing explained and certainty nothing to *BEWARE* about!

 

If the service is poor, pay less if its better pay more.

 

The system works, no reason to change it...it help someone to see that they are doing a good job or a poor one.

 

AKK

Edited November 26, 2014 by Tonka's Skipper

[ducklite]

I have also been to no tip countries and the service was fine. I have also been to tip based restaurants where the service was horrible. I think your experience has to do more with the randomness of work ethic rather than tips. Also I wonder if someone who removes auto gratuities would still be considered a cheapskate if they indeed tip at the end based on their service? Maybe in some cases they tip more than the auto gratuity if their room steward was exceptional! Lots of possibilities that make blanket statements seem kind of dumb.

 

Then why not leave the autogratuity on and just tip over and above?

 

I do not believe that those who remove autograts make it up in cash. There would be no good reason to do so.

[e2011]

Then why not leave the autogratuity on and just tip over and above?

 

I do not believe that those who remove autograts make it up in cash. There would be no good reason to do so.

 

Because with auto gratuity you are prepaying for service that is not yet rendered. What if you never use the service? We have been on cruises where we never used the dinning rooms. Every meal was at a specialty restaurant. Why would I want an auto gratuity to go to the dinning room staff that I never met? There are many other examples. Again, this is just what works for me. I prefer to make only one trip to the front desk and remove all auto gratuity and then I am done. If others like auto gratuity then enjoy! I do believe many folks do make it up in cash. So we both have our own beliefs!

Edited November 26, 2014 by e2011

[ducklite]

Because with auto gratuity you are prepaying for service that is not yet rendered. What if you never use the service? We have been on cruises where we never used the dinning rooms. Every meal was at a specialty restaurant. Why would I want an auto gratuity to go to the dinning room staff that I never met? There are many other examples. Again, this is just what works for me. I prefer to make only one trip to the front desk and remove all auto gratuity and then I am done. If others like auto gratuity then enjoy! I do believe many folks do make it up in cash. So we both have our own beliefs!

 

So you stiff the people who work breakfast and lunch. Nice.

[moki'smommy]

Because with auto gratuity you are prepaying for service that is not yet rendered. What if you never use the service? We have been on cruises where we never used the dinning rooms. Every meal was at a specialty restaurant. Why would I want an auto gratuity to go to the dinning room staff that I never met? There are many other examples. Again, this is just what works for me. I prefer to make only one trip to the front desk and remove all auto gratuity and then I am done. If others like auto gratuity then enjoy! I do believe many folks do make it up in cash. So we both have our own beliefs!

 

The problem with this logic is that the people who are assigned to serve you at the MDR dinner rotation also have breakfast and lunch serving assignments. They may not be serving at those meals, but may be clearing tables, seating guests, etc. The tip that is left at dinner is supposed to represent the tip for their duties at all 3 meals per day as well as the "extra" things such as pirate night and adult munchies. It is lovely if you eat at a sit down restaurant for breakfast and lunch and choose to leave a tip there (it's not expected or required), but what about the guy who cleans up the table after your buffet meal? Yeah, his tip is included in the standard auto-gratuity. He likely isn't YOUR dinner server, but your server is off working for someone else and won't be tipped by them.

 

In addition, you are taking a place at their table and preventing them from being assigned to a guest who will tip. Sorry...in general, I don't like auto gratuities. But the server/assistant server on DCL is an exception because their dinner tip represents so much other effort. Then we could talk about how they depend on that tip for their salary as DCL pays them next to nothing.

 

In general, I hate auto gratuities and I tip generously. But, seriously consider before you decide to not tip your MRD workers.

[e2011]

The problem with this logic is that the people who are assigned to serve you at the MDR dinner rotation also have breakfast and lunch serving assignments. They may not be serving at those meals' date=' but may be clearing tables, seating guests, etc. The tip that is left at dinner is supposed to represent the tip for their duties at all 3 meals per day as well as the "extra" things such as pirate night and adult munchies. It is lovely if you eat at a sit down restaurant for breakfast and lunch and choose to leave a tip there (it's not expected or required), but what about the guy who cleans up the table after your buffet meal? Yeah, his tip is included in the standard auto-gratuity. He likely isn't YOUR dinner server, but your server is off working for someone else and won't be tipped by them.

 

In addition, you are taking a place at their table and preventing them from being assigned to a guest who will tip. Sorry...in general, I don't like auto gratuities. But the server/assistant server on DCL is an exception because their dinner tip represents so much other effort. Then we could talk about how they depend on that tip for their salary as DCL pays them next to nothing.

 

In general, I hate auto gratuities and I tip generously. But, seriously consider before you decide to not tip your MRD workers.[/quote']

 

Good point but I am thinking of a time on RCCL where the same two women always were in the buffet for lunch. (We always do in room dining for breakfast) They were awesome and I have no idea if they were part of the dining room staff but they took great care of us! Even brought us our favorite drinks at the buffet! At the end of the cruise I gave each of them a very nice tip in cash. The younger of them almost started crying as she said they do not share in the MDR tips at all. We were like the first people to give her a tip! Since we did all specialty dinners I gave nothing to the MDR staff because we never met them. Now on Disney I do recall the MDR was also working the buffet at lunch. Since the specialty is limited to just Palo and Remy we did do the MDR on 4 of the 7 nights and I did tip those guys based on 4 nights of service, not 7. I do see your point about lunch but often times we just do Tomaters Grill so it is all self serve. No wait staff at all. I wont tip for nothing. To me that is silly and a waste of hard earned cash.

Edited November 27, 2014 by e2011

[Shmoo here]

Good point but I am thinking of a time on RCCL where the same two women always were in the buffet for lunch. (We always do in room dining for breakfast) They were awesome and I have no idea if they were part of the dining room staff but they took great care of us! Even brought us our favorite drinks at the buffet! At the end of the cruise I gave each of them a very nice tip in cash. The younger of them almost started crying as she said they do not share in the MDR tips at all. We were like the first people to give her a tip! Since we did all specialty dinners I gave nothing to the MDR staff because we never met them. Now on Disney I do recall the MDR was also working the buffet at lunch. Since the specialty is limited to just Palo and Remy we did do the MDR on 4 of the 7 nights and I did tip those guys based on 4 nights of service, not 7. I do see your point about lunch but often times we just do Tomaters Grill so it is all self serve. No wait staff at all. I wont tip for nothing. To me that is silly and a waste of hard earned cash.

 

I'll just point out that the MDR serving teams also work the poolside quick service. As well as cleaning up the tables on the pool deck.

[moki'smommy]

Hopefully you were generous in your tip for the 4 nights you felt were appropriate. However, the MDR wait staff also staffs ToMaters (they are there doing the fast food cooking) as well as keeping the tables at the pool area clean. Again...lunch service.

 

Sorry, this is one of those areas where I fear we will never fully agree. I do see your point in not tipping for service not rendered. But you did receive service at lunch as well as at some dinners.

[ducklite]

Good point but I am thinking of a time on RCCL where the same two women always were in the buffet for lunch. (We always do in room dining for breakfast) They were awesome and I have no idea if they were part of the dining room staff but they took great care of us! Even brought us our favorite drinks at the buffet! At the end of the cruise I gave each of them a very nice tip in cash. The younger of them almost started crying as she said they do not share in the MDR tips at all. We were like the first people to give her a tip! Since we did all specialty dinners I gave nothing to the MDR staff because we never met them. Now on Disney I do recall the MDR was also working the buffet at lunch. Since the specialty is limited to just Palo and Remy we did do the MDR on 4 of the 7 nights and I did tip those guys based on 4 nights of service, not 7. I do see your point about lunch but often times we just do Tomaters Grill so it is all self serve. No wait staff at all. I wont tip for nothing. To me that is silly and a waste of hard earned cash.

 

 

Odd, we saw our MDR servers in the buffets on Royal, and the same has been reported over and over. It's getting a bit thick around here.

[ducklite]

Hopefully you were generous in your tip for the 4 nights you felt were appropriate. However' date=' the MDR wait staff also staffs ToMaters (they are there doing the fast food cooking) as well as keeping the tables at the pool area clean. Again...lunch service.

 

 

 

Sorry, this is one of those areas where I fear we will never fully agree. I do see your point in not tipping for service not rendered. But you did receive service at lunch as well as at some dinners.[/quote']

 

 

On our last DCL cruise we only ate in the MDR once (in fact due to seasickness I didn't even make it through the appetizers). Typically we give 150-200% of the suggested, we did not do so on that cruise, but we did give the suggested.

[e2011]

Give till it hurts and then a little more. You are the best duck! You should try to up your standard to 250% of suggested for 2015 and set the example.

Edited November 27, 2014 by e2011

[mollyeilis]

Also I wonder if someone who removes auto gratuities would still be considered a cheapskate if they indeed tip at the end based on their service?

 

Well, who is doing the thinking that you're a cheapskate? The guest services person who takes them off probably does. They don't know you're going to tip at the end, and likely never find out.

 

The younger of them almost started crying as she said they do not share in the MDR tips at all. We were like the first people to give her a tip!

 

... often times we just do Tomaters Grill so it is all self serve. No wait staff at all. I wont tip for nothing. To me that is silly and a waste of hard earned cash.

 

Towmater's is not self service. There are people cooking your food and giving it to you. Might not seem like a lot of work, but WE certainly aren't doing the work.

 

 

 

Odd, we saw our MDR servers in the buffets on Royal, and the same has been reported over and over. It's getting a bit thick around here.

 

Well, it has also been stated that there are servers-in-training working the buffets, etc, so it's entirely possible that THOSE women didn't take part in the gratuities because they aren't also MDR servers.

 

 

Well the fact that owners of restaurants can get away with charging full price for their food and then push the wait staff compensation off on the customer is a very bad business plan that we as consumers need to change. Stop tipping, wait staff quits, restaurant folds or increases the pay. We control what happens in this country with our wallet. In most parts of the world tipping is not even a consideration. It is not done or expected. Of course everyone has the right to tip or not tip, I am not arguing with that. Just wish in America we would get past an really bad tradition and pay people a wage that they can live on....

 

But it is how it is. Here in Seattle they've raised the minimum wage a good amount, and people have been freaking out. (actually I know that they *were*, but I'm not sure about now) Although it's interesting that WA doesn't have a "server minimum"; servers here earn proper minimum wage and have since at least 1990 when I was a server. I was shocked when I found out what server minimum was in other states!

 

Unless you're in WA, though, things are how they are. Not tipping doesn't hurt the restaurant at all. It hurts ONLY the server you're not tipping. They pay taxes on what the gov't assumes they are getting in tips; if they don't get that, they are still taxed on them.

 

Huge awful flaw in the US. Absolutely. But it's not changing anytime soon. I hate it, too. We just have to deal with it. I also dislike spa gratuities, but I just try to consider the TOTAL amount as the amount. And because the total is so high on ships, I just don't take part in it. I have an awesome massage therapist that I use on land, and I doubt any Swedish massage on a ship could come even close to how much he has helped me. No loss to me and I don't have to freak out about auto-gratuities onboard.

[ducklite]

I was in Seattle in October. Had dinner at a highly regarded restaurant. 18% gratuity was tacked on to the bill.

[iluvvacations2]

I have to agree with those who think auto gratuity is ridiculous. I always have it removed because I can't determine what to tip someone until the service is completed. Maybe I feel they should get 15% or maybe 5% if they perform badly. Personally I would never go over 15% but if other people want to do it, more power to them. I also do not tip at the self serve places. We have been on both Fantasy and Dream and I also like the Tomatos Grill and never tip there. Bottom line is everyone will do what they want and to discuss the good/bad merits of each person's choice is just an invitation to start a fight as one cyber troll on this thread is trying to do....

[moki'smommy]

I also do not tip at the self serve places. We have been on both Fantasy and Dream and I also like the Tomatos Grill and never tip there. Bottom line is everyone will do what they want and to discuss the good/bad merits of each person's choice is just an invitation to start a fight as one cyber troll on this thread is trying to do....

 

No one is expected to tip at breakfast, lunch, Cabanas dinner, or the fast food places. Cabanas at dinner is a "training restaurant" and tips are not expected. The dinner tip in the MDR is considered the tip for all the service you received for all the meals. Yes, I am aware of people who leave tips at breakfast or lunch but it is neither expected or required. No CM in a tipped position will turn down a tip if offered, but neither are they waiting for one.

 

A CM in a non-tipped position will attempt to turn down a tip if one is offered. If they guest insists, the CM will accept the tip and then turn it in to the manager or bursar at Guest Services. Depending on the department, it is either used for a department party/activity (youth activities counselors) or donated to a selected charity. It is not worth losing a job over keeping a tip! And yes, this is the penalty.

 

One other thought--listing a CM who does an excellent job or goes beyond what you expected (makes your cruise magical) on the comment card or sending a letter or e-mail after the trip is incredibly important. These comments go into their employment records and impact on promotions and raises. In addition, smaller rewards are given based on the feedback--an extra couple of hours off on a port day, a meal at Palo, etc are typical rewards.

Edited November 28, 2014 by moki'smommy

[e2011]

No one is expected to tip at breakfast' date=' lunch, Cabanas dinner, or the fast food places. Cabanas at dinner is a "training restaurant" and tips are not expected. The dinner tip in the MDR is considered the tip for all the service you received for all the meals. Yes, I am aware of people who leave tips at breakfast or lunch but it is neither expected or required. No CM in a tipped position will turn down a tip if offered, but neither are they waiting for one.

 

A CM in a non-tipped position will attempt to turn down a tip if one is offered. If they guest insists, the CM will accept the tip and then turn it in to the manager or bursar at Guest Services. Depending on the department, it is either used for a department party/activity (youth activities counselors) or donated to a selected charity. It is not worth losing a job over keeping a tip! And yes, this is the penalty.

 

One other thought--listing a CM who does an excellent job or goes beyond what you expected (makes your cruise magical) on the comment card or sending a letter or e-mail after the trip is incredibly important. These comments go into their employment records and impact on promotions and raises. In addition, smaller rewards are given based on the feedback--an extra couple of hours off on a port day, a meal at Palo, etc are typical rewards.[/quote']

 

Thank you for bring that point up! On every cruise regardless of the cruise company I do fill out a comment card to identify those who made the cruise special. These cards as you pointed out help the employee in many ways including promotions. This is probably the single most important thing you can do for good service.

[moki'smommy]

We were very surprised to see our assistant server from September 2013 had been promoted to Palo server less than a year later.

 

Yes, she had all the qualifications--she was good, young, pretty, excellent English, etc. But she told us that it was guest feedback that resulted in her rapid moves up the line.

[e2011]

We were very surprised to see our assistant server from September 2013 had been promoted to Palo server less than a year later.

 

Yes' date=' she had all the qualifications--she was good, young, pretty, excellent English, etc. But she told us that it was guest feedback that resulted in her rapid moves up the line.[/quote']

 

Awesome! We had a similar experience on the Disney Fantasy. An assistant room steward who was outstanding on our first trip was promoted to lead cabin steward when we saw her a year later. We had left a comment card on the first cruise for her and I suggested they promote her! Obviously thats not the reason she was promoted but it certainly helped!

[moki'smommy]

Obviously one comment from one guest doesn't result in a major promotion. However, multiple similar comments (best cabin steward we've ever had, amazing assistant server, or whatever) over a series of cruises/multiple guests absolutely can fast track a CM.

 

When the line was only 2 ships, promotions took time (someone had to choose to not renew a contract to make a space at a higher level). With 4 ships and going from 2000 CMs (2 ships) to 5000 (4 ships, 2 bigger) there is more turnover and more room for advancement.

[DavyJoneses]

I didn't know you could get it removed! As a result' date=' I quit going to the spa. I tip, but not at that rate.[/quote']

 

I didn't know it could be removed either. This was good info.