Non-Disabled Cruisers Booking a Stateroom for Disabled Guests

[grandma*knows*best]

I was browsing the various cruise ship boards and came across this thread on the Paul Gauguin Board:

 

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=2129957

 

Apparently the non-disabled OP wants to book Stateroom 415, which is the only wheelchair accessible room on the ship, simply to get more room. I have read similar threads before, where people advocate booking rooms designed for disabled passengers just to get more room. This doesn't seem right; is there any way the cruise lines can prevent this? It would be a shame if a disabled cruiser can't travel because no appropriate rooms are available.

[1025cruise]

Most cruise lines with US based ships require anyone that books a HC cabin to justify the need for the cabin. Claiming to get more space is not a justifiable need.

[DonnasMom&Dad]

Most cruise lines with US based ships require anyone that books a HC cabin to justify the need for the cabin. Claiming to get more space is not a justifiable need.

 

 

I think you mean any ships operating in to and/or out of US ports, although registered off shore, has to abide by ADA rules, and not book a non handicap passenger in to a HC cabin, if they do, both the cruise line and the passenger risk a heavy fine. :eek:

 

Cato. :)

[xxoocruiser]

I think you mean any ships operating in to and/or out of US ports' date=' although registered off shore, has to abide by ADA rules, and not book a non handicap passenger in to a HC cabin, if they do, both the cruise line and the passenger risk a heavy fine. :eek:

 

Cato. :)[/quote']

 

I posted the following a while back in response to a similar post . In addition to what is posted below it's important to note that Paul Guaguin Cruise Line does not have any USA based ships nor does it have any of the cruises that originally embarks from a USA port. Therefore no USA laws regarding the booking of HC Accessible Cabins currently apply to Paul Guaquin Cruises.

 

Technically only Cruise Ships that are permanently home based in the USA , registered to the USA and sail under the USA flag have to comply with all ADA regulations. The NCL's Cruise ship the Pride of America is the only cruise ship that has to fully comply with all aspects of ADA.

 

In the land mark case Spector v. Norwegian Cruise Line Ltd., 125 S. Ct. 2169 (June 6, 2005) the U.S. Supreme court in a highly divided 5-4 decision, ruled that foreign-flagged cruise ships embarking in U.S. waters are subject to liability to disabled passengers under the ADA for alleged discrimination practices, policies and procedures. There was no ruling by the US Supreme court as to the whether a Foreign Flagged/Register ship has to meet all construction build outs regulated by ADA .

 

In fact at that time the Supreme Court remanded the matter back to the lower court to determine whether plaintiffs were discriminated against as claimed, and whether the structural modifications sought were in conflict with international law or otherwise interfere with the ship's internal affairs.

 

A lingering question left unanswered to date by the Supreme Court's decision is whether the pending DOT regulations addressing construction, alterations and barrier removal on cruise ships, when finally promulgated, can be applied at all to foreign vessels, and if so, to what extent. Even if the regulations are not inconsistent with international law and pose no threat to safety, they presumably would require permanent structural parameters in the design and construction of vessels, and if applied to foreign ships, would implicate their internal affairs. The Court was clear that such application of the ADA would "likely" require an amendment by Congress to specify application to foreign ships. To the best of my knowledge no such amendment has been made to date.

Edited November 23, 2014 by xxoocruiser

[xxoocruiser]

Most cruise lines with US based ships require anyone that books a HC cabin to justify the need for the cabin. Claiming to get more space is not a justifiable need.

 

Paul Guaguin Cruise Line does not have any USA based ships nor does it have any of the cruises that originally embarks from a USA port. Therefore no USA laws regarding the booking of HC Accessible Cabins currently apply to Paul Guaquin Cruises.

[dorisis]

My husband uses a sooter and does have a letter from his doctor. We have never been asked for proof that he needs an accesible cabin.

[6rugrats]

In the thread linked in the first post, the OP on the Paul Gauguin thread doesn't appear to have anyone in her party who needs the accessible cabin. She just wants the extra room. There is only one wheelchair accessible cabin on the entire ship, so it would be a shame if this cruise line let anyone book it.

[ducklite]

The OP of the thread in the first post has come back to state that it was the last cabin available in it's class. Since posting another has opened and they booked that.

 

My opinion is that if it's the last cabin available, it's open to anyone. Otherwise, it needs to be reserved for someone who actually needs it.

[sherilyn70]

I just booked a cruise today for 45 days out. Royal Caribbean told me that they no longer make the accessible rooms available to non-handicapped people to book. They do not release them at the 30 day mark like they used to. I'm assuming the only way to get one without signing the forms is to be assigned it by a guarantee or it being the last room open in that entire catagory.

Edited December 11, 2014 by sherilyn70

[DonnasMom&Dad]

My husband uses a sooter and does have a letter from his doctor. We have never been asked for proof that he needs an accesible cabin.

 

You must be kidding!!:D

 

Cato :)

[mexico8]

You must be kidding!!:D

 

Cato :)

 

Hi Cato,

 

I know you have a Travelscoot and as you know I bought the latest model. I really enjoy it but I have had great difficulty to put on the parking brake. I don't want to break anything - the manual says to put on the regular brake and push down on the parking brake but when I do that it does not seem to engage the parking brake. (One time the parking brake was on when it came off the plane so I know it does work). Any advice? Thanks.

 

Wendy

[DonnasMom&Dad]

Hi Cato,

 

I know you have a Travelscoot and as you know I bought the latest model. I really enjoy it but I have had great difficulty to put on the parking brake. I don't want to break anything - the manual says to put on the regular brake and push down on the parking brake but when I do that it does not seem to engage the parking brake. (One time the parking brake was on when it came off the plane so I know it does work). Any advice? Thanks.

 

Wendy

 

Hi Wendy: First, what part of the world are you from?

 

Second:

 

The TravelScoot is equipped with two independent band brakes, one on each

rear wheel. Both brake levers are equipped with a parking brake. To engage,

apply the brake lever and depress parking brake lever (the little black lever on the inside of the hand brake lever) until it locks the hand

brake lever in position. To release, simply apply the brake lever again.

____________________________________________________________

 

Third:

 

The parking brake lock is the little black lever, on the inside of the hand brake lever (closest to the steering column).

 

You squeeze one hand brake as hard as you can with one hand. then set the parking brake lock with the other hand, then do the same with the other brake.

 

I carry my scooter in the back of my Dodge Minivan, I lift it in, back wheels first, butt them against a piece of 2x4, to keep it from rolling forward in The car, as the brakes sdon’t hold so good when the scooter move rearward, then I set the parking brakes as described before, one at the time, This should hold the scooter solid, even when slamming on the car bakes in an emergency.

 

I hope this helps, if not send me an email <catolga28@shaw.ca>

 

Cato

Edited December 14, 2014 by Donna’s Mom & Dad

[Mindy97]

On a recent cruise, I too was unable to engage my park brake (I have the original Scoot). I figured out what happened in a few minutes. The tiller, the long pipe right in front of where you sit, has the break cord running down it. Well, at various times the tiller pipe had gotten turned around, and in turning it kept making the brake cord tighter and shorter, to where I couldn't apply enough pressure to lock the brakes. I turned the tiller back a few turns till the brake wires were again straight, and then "No problem, mon," as they say in Jamaica.

 

M.

 

Hi Cato,

 

I know you have a Travelscoot and as you know I bought the latest model. I really enjoy it but I have had great difficulty to put on the parking brake. I don't want to break anything - the manual says to put on the regular brake and push down on the parking brake but when I do that it does not seem to engage the parking brake. (One time the parking brake was on when it came off the plane so I know it does work). Any advice? Thanks.

 

Wendy

[rockdoctor]

My TA told me to not even think about a handicapped room unless your handicapped. The cruiseline can and will move you if they find out your true situation.

[mexico8]

Hi Wendy: First, what part of the world are you from?

]

Second:

 

The TravelScoot is equipped with two independent band brakes, one on each

rear wheel. Both brake levers are equipped with a parking brake. To engage,

apply the brake lever and depress parking brake lever (the little black lever on the inside of the hand brake lever) until it locks the hand

brake lever in position. To release, simply apply the brake lever again.

____________________________________________________________

 

Third:

 

The parking brake lock is the little black lever, on the inside of the hand brake lever (closest to the steering column).

 

You squeeze one hand brake as hard as you can with one hand. then set the parking brake lock with the other hand, then do the same with the other brake.

 

I carry my scooter in the back of my Dodge Minivan, I lift it in, back wheels first, butt them against a piece of 2x4, to keep it from rolling forward in The car, as the brakes sdon’t hold so good when the scooter move rearward, then I set the parking brakes as described before, one at the time, This should hold the scooter solid, even when slamming on the car bakes in an emergency.

 

I hope this helps, if not send me an email <catolga28@shaw.ca>

 

Cato

 

I don't know what I did wrong before but it now works and so simple. Thank you for your help. We live close to Ottawa in Gatineau, Quebec. I had e-mailed you last year with questions about your Travelscoot and was going to buy your old one but someone had already bought it. Glad I got the latest version with reverse etc. Thanks again for your info.

 

Wendy

[mexico8]

On a recent cruise, I too was unable to engage my park brake (I have the original Scoot). I figured out what happened in a few minutes. The tiller, the long pipe right in front of where you sit, has the break cord running down it. Well, at various times the tiller pipe had gotten turned around, and in turning it kept making the brake cord tighter and shorter, to where I couldn't apply enough pressure to lock the brakes. I turned the tiller back a few turns till the brake wires were again straight, and then "No problem, mon," as they say in Jamaica.

 

M.

 

Thank you Mindy. I will keep this information for future reference. I don't know what I did wrong before but following Cato's instructions the parking brake works. So relieved. (We were on a bus in Copenhagen last Fall and my Travelscoot was rolling all over the place. We were trying to hold onto our luggage and purses and it was a disaster. If I had been able to use the parking brake it would have saved us a lot of trouble.)

 

Other than the parking brake issue I love the Travelscoot and will be taking it to Mexico for the winter where I will get good use of it.

 

Wendy

[DonnasMom&Dad]

I don't know what I did wrong before but it now works and so simple. Thank you for your help. We live close to Ottawa in Gatineau, Quebec. I had e-mailed you last year with questions about your Travelscoot and was going to buy your old one but someone had already bought it. Glad I got the latest version with reverse etc. Thanks again for your info.

 

Wendy

 

I'm sorry to say, I think it was the dealer in Victoria BC, the only dealer in Canada, that you emailed, they had my old one on consignment, but the lady that had a deposit on it, backed out. :eek:

 

So now my daughter has it at their place, trying to sell it. :rolleyes:

 

Cato :p

 

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[gator1760]

I posted the following a while back in response to a similar post . In addition to what is posted below it's important to note that Paul Guaguin Cruise Line does not have any USA based ships nor does it have any of the cruises that originally embarks from a USA port. Therefore no USA laws regarding the booking of HC Accessible Cabins currently apply to Paul Guaquin Cruises.

 

Technically only Cruise Ships that are permanently home based in the USA , registered to the USA and sail under the USA flag have to comply with all ADA regulations. The NCL's Cruise ship the Pride of America is the only cruise ship that has to fully comply with all aspects of ADA.

 

In the land mark case Spector v. Norwegian Cruise Line Ltd., 125 S. Ct. 2169 (June 6, 2005) the U.S. Supreme court in a highly divided 5-4 decision, ruled that foreign-flagged cruise ships embarking in U.S. waters are subject to liability to disabled passengers under the ADA for alleged discrimination practices, policies and procedures. There was no ruling by the US Supreme court as to the whether a Foreign Flagged/Register ship has to meet all construction build outs regulated by ADA .

 

In fact at that time the Supreme Court remanded the matter back to the lower court to determine whether plaintiffs were discriminated against as claimed, and whether the structural modifications sought were in conflict with international law or otherwise interfere with the ship's internal affairs.

 

A lingering question left unanswered to date by the Supreme Court's decision is whether the pending DOT regulations addressing construction, alterations and barrier removal on cruise ships, when finally promulgated, can be applied at all to foreign vessels, and if so, to what extent. Even if the regulations are not inconsistent with international law and pose no threat to safety, they presumably would require permanent structural parameters in the design and construction of vessels, and if applied to foreign ships, would implicate their internal affairs. The Court was clear that such application of the ADA would "likely" require an amendment by Congress to specify application to foreign ships. To the best of my knowledge no such amendment has been made to date.

 

XXOO I think you are misleading people - here is a quote and a link from the fed on this matter from 2005 which since has been adopted into law

 

"On February 28, 2005, the U.S. Supreme Court will hear argument in Spector v. Norwegian Cruise Line Ltd., No. 03-1388, a case that will determine whether foreign-flagged cruise ships serving U.S. ports must comply with the public accommodations provisions contained in Title III of the Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA). This paper examines the Spector case in detail and concludes that the plain and expansive language of Title III evidences a congressional intent to require cruise ships to comply with Title III. Cruise ship owners and operators claim that they and their ships are exempt from the ADA because all of their ships are, with few exceptions, foreign-flagged, and historically under international law, a seagoing vessel need only comply with the laws of the flagging nation when it comes to the regulation of a ship's internal operations. This paper explains that compliance with Title III would not impinge on the internal management prerogatives of cruise lines or conflict with the United States' obligations under international law. Moreover, the contemporary practice of flying what is known as a "flag of convenience" is simply a business decision that only marginally implicates the sovereign interests of the flagging nation. In stark contrast, however, the United States has a significant interest in ending invidious discrimination against persons with disabilities by cruise lines - particularly when cruise lines are headquartered in the United States, base their ships in U.S. ports, draw their clientele almost exclusively from the United States, and advertise and solicit most of their passengers in the United States. In passing the ADA, Congress sought to guarantee "full participation" by persons with disabilities in all aspects of American life. The Supreme Court has an opportunity in Spector to give force and effect to Congress' unequivocal intent by refusing to exempt foreign-flagged cruise ships from Title III of the ADA. To do otherwise would place the Court's imprimatur upon the discriminatory practices of inaccessible cruise lines, and write segregation on the basis of disability into American law."

 

read the full text here

 

http://www.ncd.gov/publications/2005/02082005

[gator1760]

Learning Point:

 

Title III of the ADA is applicable to foreign-flag ships in United States waters unless any of Title III's requirements would interfere with the internal affairs of the ship. The majority acknowledged that “significant alteration of a physical feature of the ship” might fall into this category. To the extent that a foreign vessel owner is called upon to make a significant structural alteration to a vessel to comply with Title III, the disruption to the ship's internal affairs should be considered as a defense. Otherwise, foreign flag ships serving the American public must be brought into compliance with the ADA •

 

helpful information

 

See Title III Technical Assistance Manual III-1.2000(D) (Supp. 1994); see also U.S. Const. art. VI, § 2 ("Treaties . . . shall be the supreme Law of the Land.).

 

134Americans with Disabilities Act Accessibility Guidelines for Passenger Vessels; Large Vessels, 69 Fed. Reg. 69244 (Nov. 26, 2004).

 

135SOLAS, Technical Provisions, 32 U.S.T. 47 (emphasis added).

 

136Ironically, this last aspect - NCL's exclusion of persons with disabilities from evacuation drills - is itself a violation of SOLAS: "Clear instructions to be followed in the event of an emergency shall be provided for every person on board." SOLAS: Consolidated Edition 2001, at 303 (Int'l Mar. Org. ed., 2001) (emphasis added).

 

137SOLAS applies to all passenger vessels on international voyages, regardless of the ship's registry. Under the Fifth Circuit's reasoning, even U.S.-flagged cruise ships would get a free pass from the ADA because of the "conflict" with SOLAS.

 

138Royal Caribbean International, Accessibility Onboard, available at

<http://www.royalcaribbean.com/allaboutcruising/accessibleseas/home.do> (last visited Jan 15, 2005). The website also provides specific information regarding accessibility for individuals with visual, hearing, and other mobility impairments.

 

139Press Release, Society for Accessible Travel and Hospitality, Royal Caribbean International Supports SATH (July 27, 2004), available at <http://www.sath.org/index.html?section=Press Releases&id=4259> (last visited Jan. 15, 2004); Royal Caribbean International, Feel Right at Home, available at <http://www.royalcaribbean.com/allaboutcruising/accessibleseas/feelRightAtHome.do> (last visited Jan. 15, 2005)

 

140See Princess Cruise Lines, Accessibility for Passengers with Disabilities, available at

<http://www.princess.com/about/policy.jsp?policyId=na405> (last visited Jan. 15, 2005).

 

.141Id.

 

142See Access Now, Inc. v. Cunard Line Ltd., No. 00-7233-Civ (S.D. Fla. Apr. 18, 2001) (Ex. 1 to Notice of Conditional Class Certification, Proposed Settlement, and Fairness Hearing).

 

143Id. (Order Approving Settlement Agreement, Oct. 31, 2001, available at 2001 U.S. Dist. LEXIS 21481). In a class action brought against Costa Cruises, the cruise line agreed to make substantial modifications to its ships as part of a settlement. See Access Now, Inc. v. Costa Crociere, S.P.A., No. 00-7231-CIV (order approving class settlement) (S.D. Fla. Oct. 21, 2004).

Edited December 18, 2014 by gator1760

[guardhouse]

My wife uses a wheelchair and we have also never been asked on any of our cruises for documentation of any kind of her condition or the need for the wheelchair. Personally, I think some form of international law should cover ADA issues.

[gator1760]

My wife uses a wheelchair and we have also never been asked on any of our cruises for documentation of any kind of her condition or the need for the wheelchair. Personally, I think some form of international law should cover ADA issues.

 

Guardhouse ADA = AMERICANS with Disabilities Act it is not an international law however in the above referenced material a proprietor such as the cruise industry that derives a major portion of their business from the American public must comply

 

as far as never being asked most often I find pre cruise information is required such as form CCL requests as the example below

 

 

Dear XXXXXXXXXXXX,

 

 

Carnival Cruise Lines is dedicated to offering a quality cruising experience for all of our guests.

 

 

 

We kindly ask that you complete and return the attached form back to Fax 305-406-6303 or email to specialneeds@carnival.com. This will assist us in meeting your requirements. Should we not receive this form, we may not be able to meet your needs while onboard.

 

 

 

Thank you for choosing Carnival Cruise Lines for your cruise vacation. We would like to give you some important information about the accessible stateroom you have selected for your cruise. Please note all measurements below are approximate and not precise.

 

Carnival Ecstasy:

 

 

 

Partially Accessible Stateroom: U224,

 

 

 

Entry doorway to stateroom: 32” wide, hallway clearance inside stateroom is 35” wide; this stateroom does not have complete turnaround space.

 

 

 

Entry doorway to stateroom bathroom: 32” wide, threshold into bathroom 1” high, built in fold down shower seat; commode height of 17.5”.

 

 

 

Balcony doorway: 32” wide with a 4 1/2” lip

 

 

 

Corridor/Hallway outside of cabin: 36" wide

 

 

 

Public Accessible Bathrooms: located on Deck 8 Forward, Deck 9 Forward and Mid-ship, Deck 10 Aft, Deck 12 Spa.

 

 

 

Non Accessible areas: public pools, whirlpools, Deck 11- Water works, Deck 12 Aft (entrance to the pool slide), Deck 14 Sun (mini golf and jogging track).

 

 

 

· Wheelchair accessible public restrooms are located throughout our ships.

 

 

 

· Accessible route brochures are available to download online.

 

 

 

· At certain ports of call, small boats known as tenders are used to transport passengers from the ship to shore. Certain of these tenders may not be accessible to individuals using wheelchairs and mobility scooters, or the status of the tendering process at a particular port under certain weather, sea, swell, current and/or tide conditions may prove difficult for a safe transfer to take place. In each case, it will be the decision of the ship officials to determine, based on their evaluation of safety issues for our guests and crew, whether or not a guest using a wheelchair may board a tender. In order to safely board tenders, guests must be able to take steps and use a collapsible, fold up wheelchair; motorized wheelchairs and mobility scooters cannot be taken on tenders. *Note:Tendering ports are:

 

Tendering ports:

 

 

 

Bay Harbor, ME

Bay of Islands, NZ

Belize

 

Cabo San Lucas, Mexico

Cannes, France

Catalina Island, CA

 

Catalina Island, Dominica

Christchurch (Akaroa) NZ

Grand Cayman

 

Edinburgh, Scotland

Half Moon Cay, Bahamas

Isle of Pines, New Caledonia

 

Kona, HI

Lifou Isle, New Caledonia

Mare, New Caledonia

 

Maui (Lahaina) HI

Mystery Island, Vanuatu

Puerto Montt, Chile

 

Punta Arenas, Chile

Qaqortoq, Greenland

Sitka, AK

 

St Barts, FWI

Virgin Gorda, BVI

Wala, Vanuatu

 

Zihuatanejo/Ixtapa, Mexico

 

 

 

 

 

v Possible Tender: Ketchikan Alaska

 

Facilities in ports of call vary significantly; wheelchair accessibility may not be available for shore tours or in certain ports of call. Carnival is not responsible for accessibility in its ports of call, which are not under Carnival’s control.

 

 

 

For transportation from the airport to the pier, Hydraulic Lift Transfer is available for guest with mobility impairments, if requested in advance. Standard transfer charges apply; there is no additional cost for the lift. Please advise us if you require this service no later than 14 days prior to sailing.

 

 

 

For wheelchair assistance at the airport terminals, please contact the air carrier directly.

 

 

 

If you are requesting wheelchair assistance with embarkation and debarkation, Carnival Cruise Lines has a limited supply of wheelchairs onboard each of our ships. In order to accommodate all our guests, we reserve them for embarkation and debarkation in the pier facility only. Carnival Cruise Lines does not offer curbside assistance for embarkation and debarkation. All guests that require assistance must enter the embarkation lobby where an embarkation representative can assist you. Furthermore, the wheelchairs onboard are used for emergencies and time-to-time usage, therefore, Carnival Cruise Lines is unable to confirm the exclusivity of a wheelchair for the entire duration of the cruise.. For assistance with debarkation, instructions on where to meet can be found in the FunTimes onboard newsletter the last evening of your cruise.

 

 

 

Accessible parking is available at all Carnival Cruise Lines home ports: decal/permits are required. For pricing, and directions, please visit http://www.carnival.com.

 

 

 

If you require the regular use of a wheelchair, Carnival Cruise Lines respectfully asks that you bring your own or rent one from a service provider. Some companies that frequently provide wheelchair services for our guests are:

 

 

 

CareVacations: Phone: 1.877.478.7827

 

website: http://www.cruiseshipassist.com

 

 

 

Special Needs at Sea 1.800.513.4515

 

website: http://www.specialneedsatsea.com

 

 

 

Of course, you are free to select your own provider. Please know that Carnival Cruise Lines does not endorse specific service providers. Consequently, you assume risk of utilizing these third party services and are subject to their terms and agreements. Refund issues must be handled directly with you and the service provider as well as any other implications that may arise regarding your rental.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Please visit us online for more on accessible routes:

 

http://www.carnival.com/cms/fun/cruise_control/pdf/ADAFantasyClass.pdf

 

 

 

We also want to remind you that in the event of tendering ports, you may not be able to access our tender boats, due to safety considerations.

 

 

 

Need more information? Visit us on the web @ http://www.carnival.com/CMS/Static_Templates/EMB_guest_special_requirements.aspx

 

 

 

 

 

 

Sincerely,

 

Evelyn Amundarain

Guest Access Support

Carnival Cruise Lines | 3655 NW 87th Avenue | Miami, FL 33178 |

800-438-6744

iCare@carnival.com