Open booking and preexisting condition waiver

[mrs201099]

I need some advice. Here's the situation:

Paid deposit for an open booking for a Royal Caribbean cruise December 2013 while onboard

Booked a cruise and paid cruise deposit 2/28/2014. Open booking deposit applied as well

Bought insurance through Insure my trip on 3/6/2014

Insurance included preexisting condition waiver if purchased within 21 days of first payment

 

The question:

Is December 2013 onboard open booking deposit considered to be the first payment or is 2/24/2014 the date of first payment?

 

A medical issue arose for a perfecting condition (the cruise leaves November 29--4 days from now.

 

I have called The travel agency, Insure my trip and the travel insurance company and no one will provide an answer. The travel insurance company just told me to file the claim which they may or may not pay.

 

Does anyone have any experience with this issue?

[cherylandtk]

The first payment date generally is considered to be the day money was put down on a specific day and date sailing...but you may end up having to argue that point if it is questioned. Now that you have a specific claim condition nobody can give you a specific answer on the phone because that is the purpose of filing and processing the actual written claim. It is not decided quickly over the phone, and it is no longer hypothetical.

[mrs201099]

Thanks for the reply. I will post the resolution of this issue soon (I hope).

[Ashland]

I had a similar question too about this subject when using an open booking (NCC)..and got exact information/assurance from The Trip Insurance Store (thanks Steve & staff).

 

The open booking date (a few years old) had no effect on the date of when I actually booked a particular cruise (a few months ago)..I had 21 days from that date to purchase insurance with the waiver of pre-existing condition with Travel Insurance World Wide Trip Protection.

 

So sorry no one could give you exact info over the phone ... and telling you to just file a claim that may or may not be paid...not very good customer service.

 

Best of luck to you, and hope this is resolved in your favor.

[GeezerCouple]

I had a similar question too about this subject when using an open booking (NCC)..and got exact information/assurance from The Trip Insurance Store (thanks Steve & staff).

 

The open booking date (a few years old) had no effect on the date of when I actually booked a particular cruise (a few months ago)..I had 21 days from that date to purchase insurance with the waiver of pre-existing condition with Travel Insurance World Wide Trip Protection.

 

So sorry no one could give you exact info over the phone ... and telling you to just file a claim that may or may not be paid...not very good customer service.

 

Best of luck to you, and hope this is resolved in your favor.

 

I spoke with Steve about this also (after a similar question was raised on CC), and just to clarify, it DEPENDS UPON WHICH POLICY ONE GETS.

 

Apparently there are some insurers who "count" from the date the voucher is purchased (not good), and there are others who "count" from the date the first payment - OR application of the voucher - is made.

 

As always, it is very important to understand the terms of the policy one purchases.

This is a good example of why it is so helpful to speak with someone directly, such as Steve or others at TripInsuranceStore.com and give them the specifics of your travel needs, so they can help you choose the RIGHT policy for your needs.

 

GeezerCouple

[mrs201099]

Thanks for all your responses. Once my doctor finishes his report I will file claim and I'll let you know what happens.

[mrs201099]

I posted the initial question. Unfortunately I did not receive a response from Roam Right because they denied my claim due to a preexisting condition even though I had a preexisting waiver. When is a preexisting waiver not a preexisting waiver? Apparently when you insure with this company.

[HLGW60]

I posted the initial question. Unfortunately I did not receive a response from Roam Right because they denied my claim due to a preexisting condition even though I had a preexisting waiver. When is a preexisting waiver not a preexisting waiver? Apparently when you insure with this company.

 

After researching the fine print in policies the past few days, I have come to the conclusion that all the hype about buying your insurance between 14-21 after your initial deposit doesn't always mean you will benefit from the pre-existing medical condition waiver.

 

There will still be a LOOKBACK PERIOD for up to 180 days before the date you purchased the policy. So if you have been treated by your physican during the 6 months prior to buying the policy and maybe only had your medication changed to manage your condition then they could deny your claim. The only folks who would benefit are folks who have not seen a doctor, therapist, etc....nor had a prescription filled prior to buying the policy. You need to have had perfect health for probably a year before your trip:eek:

Edited February 3, 2015 by HLGW60

[GeezerCouple]

After researching the fine print in policies the past few days, I have come to the conclusion that all the hype about buying your insurance between 14-21 after your initial deposit doesn't always mean you will benefit from the pre-existing medical condition waiver.

 

There will still be a LOOKBACK PERIOD for up to 180 days before the date you purchased the policy. So if you have been treated by your physican during the 6 months prior to buying the policy and maybe only had your medication changed to manage your condition then they could deny your claim. The only folks who would benefit are folks who have not seen a doctor, therapist, etc....nor had a prescription filled prior to buying the policy. You need to have had perfect health for probably a year before your trip:eek:

 

Perhaps this is the case with the policies you have/have had, but please don't generalize to all travel insurance policies.

 

The type of policy we purchase, from TravelInsured through Steve at

TripInsuranceStore.com

 

does NOT have this "gotcha".

 

How can we be so sure?

 

When we had an expensive claim, based upon a medical emergency less than 2 weeks before we were supposed to leave home, trust me, *IF* there had been some way to use a pre-existing condition clause, it would have been tried.

 

Yet, the insurer did not even request older medical records, just confirmation about the nature of the emergency and the fact that the physician stated that DH absolutely should not leave the area, so he could continue to get medical care.

 

We know that the physician was not asked for older medical records, and our internist was never contacted.

 

OP, please call Steve about your future travel insurance needs.

 

And as for the current claim, perhaps you'd want to speak with your state insurance commissioner's office (if you live in the USA), as insurance is regulated here.

Good luck.

 

GeezerCouple

[HLGW60]

Perhaps this is the case with the policies you have/have had, but please don't generalize to all travel insurance policies.

 

The type of policy we purchase, from TravelInsured through Steve at

TripInsuranceStore.com

 

does NOT have this "gotcha".

 

How can we be so sure?

 

When we had an expensive claim, based upon a medical emergency less than 2 weeks before we were supposed to leave home, trust me, *IF* there had been some way to use a pre-existing condition clause, it would have been tried.

 

Yet, the insurer did not even request older medical records, just confirmation about the nature of the emergency and the fact that the physician stated that DH absolutely should not leave the area, so he could continue to get medical care.

 

We know that the physician was not asked for older medical records, and our internist was never contacted.

 

OP, please call Steve about your future travel insurance needs.

 

And as for the current claim, perhaps you'd want to speak with your state insurance commissioner's office (if you live in the USA), as insurance is regulated here.

Good luck.

 

GeezerCouple

 

Thanks for the advice but I did buy a policy that Steve recommends - Travelguard Gold. Also, it was his website where I learned a lot about LOOKBACK PERIODS and being MEDICALLY STABLE. A person must be MEDICALLY STABLE at the time you purchase insurance.

 

Hopefully, I will never have to make a claim but my point is that there is no health insurance I'm aware of ( except OBAMACARE) that will insure you if you have a preexisting condition that is not medically stable on the day you purchase your insurance. Quoting from Steve's site:

 

"As you look and call around, you will find a wide range of advice & opinions as to what exactly it means to be Medically Stable. In order to better explain this, there are a few concepts that are good for you to understand:1) Foreseen or expected to “be a turn for the worse” – If you’re given a week to live and you want to buy travel insurance for a cruise next month, you can’t cover the Pre-Existing Medical Condition. It’s like wanting to buy Fire Insurance when your house is on fire.

2) Medically Able To Travel – The insured traveler must be able to travel on the day they get their travel insurance. Don’t call us to order a policy if you’re being treated now, or have a surgery scheduled and can’t currently travel, yet your doctor says you’ll be able to travel later. You will not be covered at all. This includes calling us from your hospital bed."

[GeezerCouple]

Thanks for the advice but I did buy a policy that Steve recommends - Travelguard Gold. Also, it was his website where I learned a lot about LOOKBACK PERIODS and being MEDICALLY STABLE. A person must be MEDICALLY STABLE at the time you purchase insurance.

 

Hopefully, I will never have to make a claim but my point is that there is no health insurance I'm aware of ( except OBAMACARE) that will insure you if you have a preexisting condition that is not medically stable on the day you purchase your insurance. Quoting from Steve's site:

 

"As you look and call around, you will find a wide range of advice & opinions as to what exactly it means to be Medically Stable. In order to better explain this, there are a few concepts that are good for you to understand:1) Foreseen or expected to “be a turn for the worse” – If you’re given a week to live and you want to buy travel insurance for a cruise next month, you can’t cover the Pre-Existing Medical Condition. It’s like wanting to buy Fire Insurance when your house is on fire.

2) Medically Able To Travel – The insured traveler must be able to travel on the day they get their travel insurance. Don’t call us to order a policy if you’re being treated now, or have a surgery scheduled and can’t currently travel, yet your doctor says you’ll be able to travel later. You will not be covered at all. This includes calling us from your hospital bed."

 

I think there is some confusion here about "look back periods", etc.

That's not what is written.

 

What is written is that one must be "able to travel on the day that one purchases the insurance coverage".

 

We were actually "caught" in this sort of "limbo", after the cancelled trip I mentioned.

It took longer than we had expected/hoped for DH to be "able to travel", and during that time, we couldn't make any plans for just this reason.

However, the day that his physician said he *could* now travel, HURRAY!

We had lots of time to be thinking about future travel, so we booked several trips.

 

The reason should be obvious: If someone is 'currently' too sick to travel, then purchasing insurance could be used if they *never* get better.

Insurance is intended to cover future problems.

(One can't purchase homeowner's insurance once the house has caught fire and is burning, hoping that the fire will go out, for example. That's not quite the same, but the principle is similar.)

 

The fact that he was still being treated for something wasn't an issue.

In fact, by the time one reaches "a certain age", it's pretty common to have one or more conditions that are being treated. And it's not too uncommon to have adjustments to one or more medications over time.

 

None of that matters IF we get the pre-existing condition exclusion waiver.

But one does need to be able to travel on the day that one first purchases the insurance.

But that is NOT the "look back period" that is described for travel insurance coverage.

 

So I assume that you were *not* able to travel when you purchased the insurance?

If that isn't accurate, please call Steve again for assistance.

READ that wording again, carefully.

What matters is how YOUR policy is worded, obviously.

 

And please let us know.

Thank you!

 

GeezerCouple

[HLGW60]

I think there is some confusion here about "look back periods", etc.

That's not what is written.

 

What is written is that one must be "able to travel on the day that one purchases the insurance coverage".

 

We were actually "caught" in this sort of "limbo", after the cancelled trip I mentioned.

It took longer than we had expected/hoped for DH to be "able to travel", and during that time, we couldn't make any plans for just this reason.

However, the day that his physician said he *could* now travel, HURRAY!

We had lots of time to be thinking about future travel, so we booked several trips.

 

The reason should be obvious: If someone is 'currently' too sick to travel, then purchasing insurance could be used if they *never* get better.

Insurance is intended to cover future problems.

(One can't purchase homeowner's insurance once the house has caught fire and is burning, hoping that the fire will go out, for example. That's not quite the same, but the principle is similar.)

 

The fact that he was still being treated for something wasn't an issue.

In fact, by the time one reaches "a certain age", it's pretty common to have one or more conditions that are being treated. And it's not too uncommon to have adjustments to one or more medications over time.

 

None of that matters IF we get the pre-existing condition exclusion waiver.

But one does need to be able to travel on the day that one first purchases the insurance.

But that is NOT the "look back period" that is described for travel insurance coverage.

 

So I assume that you were *not* able to travel when you purchased the insurance?

If that isn't accurate, please call Steve again for assistance.

READ that wording again, carefully.

What matters is how YOUR policy is worded, obviously.

 

And please let us know.

Thank you!

 

GeezerCouple

 

LOL....are you talking to me or the OP? I just bought my insurance policy last week and won't be traveling till May 2016. We are all healthy right now but I have become obsessed lately about reading insurance policies in light of the cruiser whose luggage took a dive in the ocean and all the loss he incurred. I was just commenting on a worse case scenario where the insurance company could possibly deny a claim based on the wording in the policy regarding a pre-existing condition at the time of purchase. I am glad to hear you had no problems with your claim and wish you well.:)

[GeezerCouple]

LOL....are you talking to me or the OP? I just bought my insurance policy last week and won't be traveling till May 2016. We are all healthy right now but I have become obsessed lately about reading insurance policies in light of the cruiser whose luggage took a dive in the ocean and all the loss he incurred. I was just commenting on a worse case scenario where the insurance company could possibly deny a claim based on the wording in the policy regarding a pre-existing condition at the time of purchase. I am glad to hear you had no problems with your claim and wish you well.:)

 

Oooops <insert embarrassed face>.

 

Yup, I thought I was answering the OP!

 

But yes, the "being able to travel on the day the insurance is purchased" is totally different from those "look back" periods (they can be worded in a variety of days, but the waiver is meant to bypass all of them).

 

GeezerCouple

[BridgeMates]

I just talked to Princess Insurance Co. regarding a cruise we've booked for October. I was thinking I'd better buy the insurance today to cover any preconditions. But, as I understand it, they use a "look back" period of 60 days from the date you purchase the insurance. All illnesses must be stable and controlled, no change in meds, etc. during the 60 days. There is no waiver for pre-conditions. There just can't be any changes during the 60 days before the purchase of insurance. I have adjustments quite often to some of the meds I'm taking. As I understand it, this could disqualify me from a refund.

 

So, as I see it, I might as well wait until final payment and pay for the insurance which does cover "cancel for any reason." It would be a credit tho, not a refund and if I had a medical emergency like breaking a leg or having a heart attack, the medical insurance would cover those instances as they wouldn't be "pre-conditions."

 

If I take private insurance within a few days after making the initial deposit, I will be covered for any pre-condition according to most of the plans, BUT won't have the cancel for any reason provision, which is kind of nice to have if you are on a New England cruise and you see a hurricane going up that way.

 

Guess it all boils down to what is most important....getting a cash refund or a credit toward a future cruise.

 

Now that I've confused you, I welcome any comments you might have. :)

[GeezerCouple]

I just talked to Princess Insurance Co. regarding a cruise we've booked for October. I was thinking I'd better buy the insurance today to cover any preconditions. But, as I understand it, they use a "look back" period of 60 days from the date you purchase the insurance. All illnesses must be stable and controlled, no change in meds, etc. during the 60 days. There is no waiver for pre-conditions. There just can't be any changes during the 60 days before the purchase of insurance. I have adjustments quite often to some of the meds I'm taking. As I understand it, this could disqualify me from a refund.

 

So, as I see it, I might as well wait until final payment and pay for the insurance which does cover "cancel for any reason." It would be a credit tho, not a refund and if I had a medical emergency like breaking a leg or having a heart attack, the medical insurance would cover those instances as they wouldn't be "pre-conditions."

 

If I take private insurance within a few days after making the initial deposit, I will be covered for any pre-condition according to most of the plans, BUT won't have the cancel for any reason provision, which is kind of nice to have if you are on a New England cruise and you see a hurricane going up that way.

 

Guess it all boils down to what is most important....getting a cash refund or a credit toward a future cruise.

 

Now that I've confused you, I welcome any comments you might have. :)

 

Hi, and again, we strongly encourage you to contact Steve at

TripInsuranceStore.com

 

and TALK with them, don't just rely upon the plan summaries on the website (their website or anyone else).

 

There are other policies that do have both waiver of pre-existing condition exclusions (a *must* for us), and also a separate option for CFAR (Cancel For Any Reason).

If you are within the 14-21 day window of your initial deposit, then the CFAR is much less than if you get a different policy with CFAR later.

But you can get a waiver of pre-existing condition exclusions later, too.

However, regardless of when on "gets" the policy, one must be fit to travel on that day.

 

As for whether something would be considered due to a pre-existing condition, who knows if an insurer would try to claim that, say, a heart attack was in part related to high blood pressure, or who knows what else.

We wouldn't want to find that out the hard way.

(However, we admit that we find comfort in insurance, whereas others don't have the same approach. The important thing is to make the decision that is best for you, and to make sure the policy suits your specific circumstances: both health and travel.)

 

By the way, although the CFAR isn't cheap, we agree that we'd rather be able to decide that the hurricane risk was too high, or some political situation someplace just too "iffy". But we've had CFAR also because of the "just in case DH gets an important consulting request", at least until he is really retired. This way, he doesn't fret about "what if's..." galore in the final months before a non-refundable vacation.

 

GeezerCouple

[HLGW60]

I just talked to Princess Insurance Co. regarding a cruise we've booked for October. I was thinking I'd better buy the insurance today to cover any preconditions. But, as I understand it, they use a "look back" period of 60 days from the date you purchase the insurance. All illnesses must be stable and controlled, no change in meds, etc. during the 60 days. There is no waiver for pre-conditions. There just can't be any changes during the 60 days before the purchase of insurance. I have adjustments quite often to some of the meds I'm taking. As I understand it, this could disqualify me from a refund.

 

So, as I see it, I might as well wait until final payment and pay for the insurance which does cover "cancel for any reason." It would be a credit tho, not a refund and if I had a medical emergency like breaking a leg or having a heart attack, the medical insurance would cover those instances as they wouldn't be "pre-conditions."

 

If I take private insurance within a few days after making the initial deposit, I will be covered for any pre-condition according to most of the plans, BUT won't have the cancel for any reason provision, which is kind of nice to have if you are on a New England cruise and you see a hurricane going up that way.

 

Guess it all boils down to what is most important....getting a cash refund or a credit toward a future cruise.

 

Now that I've confused you, I welcome any comments you might have. :)

 

The questions you are having seem to be closely related to the ones I was having last week. I guess my rationale was why get in a panic to have the pre-existing condition waiver when the insurance company was going to have a look-back period regardless of when you bought the policy. Anyone who has ever been denied a claim on their health insurance and had to resubmit the claim or appeal would likely know why a person might have doubts about the insurance possibly denying your claim due to a change in medication, etc.

 

However, I am a firm believer in having travel insurance.....especially medical coverage and medical evacuation coverage when you are traveling out of the country. We used the TripInsuranceStore for our next booked cruise and we bought the Travel Insured Worldwide Trip Protector Plus. This policy was expensive but worth it for us to have peace of mind if something was to happen to us in a foreign country. It has the cancel for any reason coverage as well as the pre-existing condition waiver if bought within 21 days of your initial deposit or payment date.

 

I have never bought travel insurance while vacationing in the US where I know my health insurance will be covered. I have a credit card that would take care of trip interruption and lost/damaged baggage. We can self insure for vacations here in th states but vacationing abroad is a whole other ballgame! :)

[cherylandtk]

BridgeMates, you have the either/or between PECW and any reason credit quite well-figured out. I will address my comments to the following statements and perhaps give you more to consider.

?..There just can't be any changes during the 60 days before the purchase of insurance. I have adjustments quite often to some of the meds I'm taking. As I understand it, this could disqualify me from a refund.

 

So, as I see it, I might as well wait until final payment and pay for the insurance which does cover "cancel for any reason." It would be a credit tho, not a refund and if I had a medical emergency like breaking a leg or having a heart attack, the medical insurance would cover those instances as they wouldn't be "pre-conditions."....

Waiting to purchase the insurance has a benefit in that you are not out the cost of insurance if you should need to cancel before final payment. The downside is that until you purchase it, your 60 day lookback clock has not started. Breaking your leg on the cruise, as your example, would be covered in almost any instance as it is usually an accident. A heart attack however, may or may not be a result of a pre-existing condition, depending on when the policy was purchased and when you first showed signs of any heart disease symptoms. If you purchase the policy before you develop any sort of symptoms, then it is not PEC.

 

A cold that you get the week before final payment is not a big deal, and you will likely buy insurance and make final payment. But if it turns into bronchitis and you then get pneumonia a month later, you now have a PEC and care for any complications would not be covered if that should continue on into your cruise. Getting the policy before final payment would mean that any of those conditions would be covered on the trip because the policy was purchased before the first illness.

 

I am not advocating one choice over the other as they both have their place, but I do advocate weighing all the what-ifs in making that choice.

Edited February 10, 2015 by cherylandtk