question on latest smoking policy

[Msee]

My husband is non-smoker and I by myself smoke sometimes a cigarette, but I always show consideration to my cabin neightbours.

 

Kind regards

Martina and Kurt

[Cashew14]

[ATTACH]333456[/ATTACH]

 

Here is the photo of the cigarettes

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

I am sure you would not mind being photographed either when you are on your balcony. I certainly would photograph you day and night after you take photographs of my balcony.

[dkjretired]

I am sure you would not mind being photographed either when you are on your balcony. I certainly would photograph you day and night after you take photographs of my balcony.

 

Yup, if I can smell your smoke, you gave up any dubious privacy rights you might have.

[MizDemeanor]

Yup, if I can smell your smoke, you gave up any dubious privacy rights you might have.

 

Oooh I don't know about that. Privacy rights are pretty well outlined in the laws where a reasonable person can expect to have privacy without it bring violated.

 

Smoking bans and laws do not negate a persons right to privacy.

[WpgCruise]

Oooh I don't know about that. Privacy rights are pretty well outlined in the laws where a reasonable person can expect to have privacy without it bring violated.

 

Smoking bans and laws do not negate a persons right to privacy.

 

What "Rights" ?

 

We are speaking of a Celebrity owned ship registered in Malta.

 

Could you expand please on what "Rights" apply ?

[Algebralovr]

Oooh I don't know about that. Privacy rights are pretty well outlined in the laws where a reasonable person can expect to have privacy without it bring violated.

 

Smoking bans and laws do not negate a persons right to privacy.

 

You do not have a right to privacy aboard a Celebrity Ship. It is not registered nor sailing solely within the US. The cruise contract allows the ship to put you off for violating the contract, and part of the contract means following the rules - including where smoking is allowed. Besides, there is not a right to complete privacy in the laws. The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, or the one.

 

If you want to smoke on your balcony, choose a ship that allows it. Otherwise, follow the rules about where to smoke.

 

I support the member who took a photo of the smoking materials and "ashtray" on the balcony. I would do the same since smoke makes my asthma worse and it is against the rules for a reason.

[TMLAalum]

If cruise personnel had addressed the balcony smoker upon 1st report, the OP would not have reached the point of frustration that led to the photograph!

 

I don't see a photo of forbidden inanimate objects that was taken from one's veranda as a violation of the smoking cruisers' privacy. A zoom lens can accomplish such a photo without the photographer even needing to lean into the neighbor's veranda space.

 

Had the cabin occupant's photo been taken, then violation of their privacy might be a consideration.

[michaelbyrns]

I thought that this was already addressed sufficiently but I have seen some very interesting and spirited comments from folks.

 

I think that people generally break down into certain groups on this matter -

1. Smokers (most of which are considerate to others)

2. Smokers (don't care about others, and smoke wherever they feel like)

3. Non-Smokers (folks that are not bothered by the smell or smoke)

4. Non-Smokers (who are bothered, but don't like to say anything)

5. Non-Smokers (folks like me who have health issues and really have a problem)

6. Non-Smokers (Those of us who are not going to tolerate it in the few places that we have left. You may say that a smoker is entitled to smoke in their own spots. Well, I am getting their second hand smoke. You might not care, but for those who have respiratory problems, or cardiac issues, the smoke reduces our breathing capacity.

 

Regarding this turkey who smoked on the balcony, it meant that the folks on either side of him (especially in the adding partition cabins) were not able to keep their cabin door open during it. Should those of us lose this benefit of a balcony for the duration of our cruises? Does this turkey have more rights than we do?

 

In these cases, the first line of defense is your cabin stewart, if he can do nothing, you have to take it up a notch and report it to the front desk. Then you might hear that they sent someone there and nothing was done as they saw no evidence and the people said they did not smoke out there. If you are on a short one week cruise, and you don't want to lose half of your trip getting this resolved, you had better do the exact same thing. Take a photo, and if the people are there smoking at the time and see you, even better. Take that photo immediately to the front desk and you will see that it is taken care of immediately. Hopefully these folks will also receive a fine or something.

 

I suspect that the folks on here who are more worried about the smoker's privacy belong to the first 3 categories listed above. Those who have health issues are going to do the same thing to protect their own rights. When you go down to the desk, see what they tell you - thank you very much, so sorry for this. Glad you have brought this issue to us and provided us with the proof to use.

 

By the way, the reason that it is such a tiny photo is that is what is required to be posted, you are not able to post any decent sized picture. The original is full sized of course.

 

So the next time you are on a cruise and see all the folks smoking all over in their allowed areas, think of the folks who want to use the jogging trail and have to go through the smoke areas as they proceed. Have some consideration for those who not only don't like the smell, but have issues.

[MizDemeanor]

By the way, the reason that it is such a tiny photo is that is what is required to be posted, you are not able to post any decent sized picture. The original is full sized of course.

 

That is absolutely incorrect, here take a look.

 

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showpost.php?p=44925980&postcount=73

[dkjretired]

That is absolutely incorrect, here take a look.

 

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showpost.php?p=44925980&postcount=73

 

So now in addition to stating she violated someone's privacy with no proof, you are insinuating she is lying

[Sloop-JohnB]

 

By the way, the reason that it is such a tiny photo is that is what is required to be posted, you are not able to post any decent sized picture. The original is full sized of course.

 

 

That is absolutely incorrect, here take a look.

 

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showpost.php?p=44925980&postcount=73

 

The OP is correct...

 

Unless one subscribes to an off site photo hosting site (BTW not a requirement of membership on CC)

 

CC photos attached to posts produces the size of photo (thumbnail & small pop up) that appears in Reply # 41

 

Not sure why this Poster is being dogged / harassed on this particular issue (it has been documented here several times on CC that Celebrity Mgmt has had on several occasions trouble catching Smokers breaking the rules / in the act. And when someone complains to Guest Services they are encouraged to call when it is happening, and/or take photos)

 

And there doesn't have to be a lot of / any rubber necking in many situations to see others balconies...

 

As witnessed by the Aft Cabin Balconies which are tiered on the S-Class Ships, or on the "straight sides" of an S-Class Ship if one is on an Angled Balcony near "the hump"

 

Equinox Aft (not my photo) = http://i48.tinypic.com/ta5uol.jpg

 

--- --- ---

 

As for privacy & laws of the land...

 

When you break the rules on a cruise ship, privacy goes out the window (what little exists on a cruise to begin with). The powers of the Captain in International Waters, extends far beyond what anyone is used to in a country ashore.

 

Just read Section 8 of your Cruise Contract.

 

Cheers!

Edited December 10, 2014 by Sloop-JohnB

[MizDemeanor]

So now in addition to stating she violated someone's privacy with no proof, you are insinuating she is lying

 

I have a concern with this kind of dialog.:rolleyes:

 

If you go back and re-read my post I used the word 'incorrect'. Not lie. 'Incorrect'. Which it is. You are the one who said you like proof. To that end you have it but are misundertsanding it.

 

For the poster who posted a tiny pic thinking it was the largest they could upload, maybe you could tell them how to post larger ones and with a more helpful approach to them rather than a combative action with me. I would have told them myself, but I have no idea how to do it. Yet that does not mean its not done or possible. Clearly it is.

 

As for the idea that because you say that privacy laws are dubious, there is no doubt in my mind that two wrongs don't make a right. Our opinion on this topic clearly differs, and I completely understand that and your point of view on this subject, yet I have no interest whatsoever in mud-slinging with you or anyone else even if that is what you want.

 

I have morals that differ from others, I get that we all do. It's OK.

[MizDemeanor]

 

As for privacy & laws of the land...

 

When you break the rules on a cruise ship, privacy goes out the window (what little exists on a cruise to begin with). The powers of the Captain in International Waters, extends far beyond what anyone is used to in a country ashore.

 

Just read Section 8 of your Cruise Contract.

 

Cheers!

 

I think if that is a literal response to activitites then its anarchy. Laws vary from location to location. We all come with behaviors that are either OK under the circumstances or not OK. Rule breakers live and breathe by the rules they wish to break. It's nothing new. Consideration of others rights have little meaning and there are elaborate justifications for actions that are not suppoted by morals. That is what I see for both sides here.

 

If you are stating with fact that the cruiseline insists on its passengers taking photos of what they perceive to be rule breaking, and that is what I read your message to say, then its for the ease of the cruise line to address the issue, and I think its sad that people buy into this.

[johhnnyt]

The main reason cruise lines banned smoking from cabins and balconies was because of the fires they ended up causing.

Star Princess fire in 2006 was caused by a cigarette being flicked over an upper balcony.That fire killed one passenger and injured many others as it destroyed 100 cabins.

 

Violating safety rules that endanger other people can not be tolerated, and if you're worried about privacy issues being violated then either

• Follow safety rules
  
• Smoke where its allowed, not where you want to
  and then it's a non issue
  

And that's coming from a guy that smoked for almost 30 years, but also from an ex Navy guy that has seen the damage that one careless cigarette can do on a ship

Edited December 10, 2014 by johhnnyt

[MizDemeanor]

Clarification Point in case its needed/might be needed for relevance: I don't smoke/we don't smoke.

[dkjretired]

I have a concern with this kind of dialog.:rolleyes:

 

If you go back and re-read my post I used the word 'incorrect'. Not lie. 'Incorrect'. Which it is. You are the one who said you like proof. To that end you have it but are misundertsanding it.

 

For the poster who posted a tiny pic thinking it was the largest they could upload, maybe you could tell them how to post larger ones and with a more helpful approach to them rather than a combative action with me. I would have told them myself, but I have no idea how to do it. Yet that does not mean its not done or possible. Clearly it is.

 

As for the idea that because you say that privacy laws are dubious, there is no doubt in my mind that two wrongs don't make a right. Our opinion on this topic clearly differs, and I completely understand that and your point of view on this subject, yet I have no interest whatsoever in mud-slinging with you or anyone else even if that is what you want.

 

I have morals that differ from others, I get that we all do. It's OK.

 

That' why I used the word insinuating...

[redjetz]

Misdemeanor, I understand your concern for privacy rights and I tend in that direction, too, in general. But I am thinking you don't have asthma like I and other cruisers do. I book Celebrity in large part because of its rigid rules about smoking. When people ignore the rules and impinge on my need to breathe, I report it.

 

However, as many of us know, the nice Celebrity staff can be reluctant to act and upset the inconsiderate smokers, so pics help us make our case when we have to escalate.

 

I have found that taping a note to e offender's door with a circle around the notice about the fine does sometimes but not always, help curb the behavior.

 

Instead of calling g Guest Relations, I have found calling Security results in quick, effective action, so I suggest folks try that.

[MizDemeanor]

That' why I used the word insinuating...

 

You have a very vivid imagination. I suggest a nice cruise. :cool:

[MizDemeanor]

Misdemeanor, I understand your concern for privacy rights and I tend in that direction, too, in general. But I am thinking you don't have asthma like I and other cruisers do. I book Celebrity in large part because of its rigid rules about smoking. When people ignore the rules and impinge on my need to breathe, I report it.

 

However, as many of us know, the nice Celebrity staff can be reluctant to act and upset the inconsiderate smokers, so pics help us make our case when we have to escalate.

 

I have found that taping a note to e offender's door with a circle around the notice about the fine does sometimes but not always, help curb the behavior.

 

Instead of calling g Guest Relations, I have found calling Security results in quick, effective action, so I suggest folks try that.

 

That's exactly the point. Escalate the issue. Don't stoop to a low for an issue like this. Celebrity has a large staff on board who can intervene and its thier job to ensure your enjoyment. They know the rules, you know the rules, the offender knows the rules.

 

Security is not tipped. Guest relations staff is not tipped. Stewards are probably the most reluctant to approach a guest and create a conflict. I realize guests put them in the crossfire on both ends but think about that conundrum.

 

Just escalate the issue to the higher powers and the unconflicted levels. Don't do their job for them. You are there for a vacation, not evidence gathering.

Edited December 10, 2014 by MizDemeanor

[redjetz]

You seem a bit too entrenched in your position to consider that a smoking neighbor can significantly impact ones enjoyment of a cruise, especially when health issues are involved.

 

Happy that this isn't an issue for you, so I will wish you happy cruising. But many of us understand that Celebrity staff sometimes need evidence and a push to do their jobs.

 

Cheers.

[MizDemeanor]

You seem a bit too entrenched in your position to consider that a smoking neighbor can significantly impact ones enjoyment of a cruise, especially when health issues are involved.

 

Happy that this isn't an issue for you, so I will wish you happy cruising. But many of us understand that Celebrity staff sometimes need evidence and a push to do their jobs.

 

Cheers.

 

If you live or have lived apartment life or condo life you already know the impact that balconies create with smoking whether it be cigarettes, cigars, pipes or marijuana.

 

Having said that and knowing what I know, its easy for a cruise staff to also know the smoke can be coming from anywhere so there may be a prove it to me approach and I am not convinced that it is a fact (that they don't want you to know) to get proof or just cruise legend from cruise boards and those who tend to take these sort of matters into their own hands enjoy it because they are active like that.

 

I have stated many times I disapprove of smoking on the balconies because it is not allowed and I have been as vocal about equally disapproving about peering over another's balcony with the explicit intent to see what they are doing and by taking it a step further with taking a photo of another's balcony items.

 

I have suggested several times an alternate and open minded approach for those who are in this sort of situation to contemplate, and I have pushed aside the idea that its a guests obligation to gather evidence for a smoking offender.

[Sloop-JohnB]

You seem a bit too entrenched in your position to consider that a smoking neighbor can significantly impact ones enjoyment of a cruise, especially when health issues are involved.

 

Happy that this isn't an issue for you, so I will wish you happy cruising. But many of us understand that Celebrity staff sometimes need evidence and a push to do their jobs.

 

Cheers.

 

Or based on other past topics on this issue...

 

Not so much a push, as just some sort of valid EVIDENCE (of the act) so they can actually enforce The Rules

 

Celebrity Staff don't see the violation in person or the evidence of it (Rule Breakers by nature are cagey) they have a hard time then taking action against the Offender.

 

And openly admit that to those who come to Guest Relations with a complaint about Balcony Smoking

 

This of course is very frustrating for those that have a very real issue with smoke... If it means they cannot enjoy the Balcony they paid extra for. More so if smoke isn't just an inconvenience... But a health concern for that Pax / family

 

The Rules when applied are:

 

1- Fine Offender

2- Disembark Offender

 

Those who Smoke on their Balconies I believe for the most part KNOW they are breaking The Rules. I suspect many of them figure the worst that will happen is they'll be caught with a fine (typical hotel fare).

 

As I've seen time & time agin on CC... Very few Cruisers actually read their Cruise Contract... So they don't comprehend how SERIOUS an issue Smoking is to the Cruise Co. (again seeing the cruise more like a floating hotel than a transportation vehicle... They may comprehend WHY there is such rigid No Smoking on an Airplane, but cannot make the same determination for a ship)

 

Have also seen in the years since I've been on CC... Posts by Cruisers who are MORE THAN A LITTLE SURPRISED when they are on the receiving end of Cruise Line Law (aka The Master Captain is the boss of his ship) ... Having broken a Rule.

 

They find that things they assumed ashore don't exist at sea... Such as the Cruise Lines Right for Search & Seizure, Restraint & Debarkation etc (aka Section 8 of the Cruise Contract = http://www.celebritycruises.com/media/en_US/pdf/cruise_ticket_contract/Celebrity-Cruise-Ticket-Contract.pdf )

 

Cheers!

Edited December 10, 2014 by Sloop-JohnB

[bobsfamily]

could someone CLOSE this thread?

[redjetz]

 

I have suggested several times an alternate and open minded approach for those who are in this sort of situation to contemplate, and I have pushed aside the idea that its a guests obligation to gather evidence for a smoking offender.

 

That's lovely and I agree - great when it works - not so great when your neighbor doesn't respond well. The choice is then to let a boor negatively impact your vacation, or to take some action to regain some comfort and enjoyment of the facilities you paid for. You seem to discount that aspect of the situation.

 

Regardless, this clearly isn't an issue for you as it is for many of the rest of us. We will simply have to agree to disagree.

[CRUZBUDS]

This is really tame for a smoking thread :)