Less employees?

[Jim Avery]

that is pretty much right "on" with the HAl website (you had fewer passengeers so it would make sense the crew/staff was reduced by 7) from the HAL website:

 

Passenger capacity: 1,258

 

Crew members: 580

 

On Veendam Christmas Cruise it seemed very much like they were short staffed. Our Cabin attendants were cleaning what seemed like half the corridor. They worked very hard but service was slow. Same in the MDR and surprisingly, even worse in Pinnacle Grill. I would not pay extra again. And just because they list a number of crew by the number of passengers, doesn't mean that they actually have that number on board on a given cruise.

[adrift@sea]

Interesting to read these comments. It reflects some of the problems we saw a few years ago. We are just back from the Eurodam's New Year cruise and found quite the opposite (to our pleasant surprise).

 

Our cabin stewards were great and always had our cabin made up before noon - maybe because we are up and about relatively early, who knows for sure. For the first time we did open dining and made reservations for 5:45 pm. The dining room (deck 2) was only half full the five nights we ate there and the service was quick and efficient. We were always finished in an hour even though we had a multi-course dinner and dessert and coffee. The waiters were not busy at all. I did notice that the waiter did handle cocktails which surprised me.

 

The ship's log reported 2289 passengers (lots of kids!) and a crew of 889.

 

Best cruise we have had on HAL in several years. We go again in February aboard Noordam so it will be interesting to see what occurs.

 

We were also on board Eurodam for Christmas/New Year's, as well as, Thanksgiving and found the service to be exceptional. Our cabin was always made up well before 11 am. Our stewards checked in just about daily to see if everything was to our liking.

 

Agreed the Dining Room service was quick and efficient. Most nights, we were finished in a little over an hour or so (our choice). We also ate on the lower level, although we did tend to arrive quite a bit later than 5:45. There were nights that the DR became extremely busy but that never appeared to cause any delays with our dinner service.

 

Never had any problem ordering a drink or wine in the DR. Requests were handled quickly and efficiently. Also never encountered any delays ordering drinks in any of the bars or lounges.

 

We have found the Eurodam to be one of the best run ships in the HAL fleet.

 

Edited January 8, 2015 by adrift@sea

[kazu]

On Veendam Christmas Cruise it seemed very much like they were short staffed. Our Cabin attendants were cleaning what seemed like half the corridor. They worked very hard but service was slow. Same in the MDR and surprisingly, even worse in Pinnacle Grill. I would not pay extra again. And just because they list a number of crew by the number of passengers, doesn't mean that they actually have that number on board on a given cruise.

 

Your cruise log lists the number of passengers and crew. My quote was in reference to a cruise log that was posted. The cruise logs are accurate.

[Copper10-8]

...........................And just because they list a number of crew by the number of passengers, doesn't mean that they actually have that number on board on a given cruise.

 

Every time a ship departs from a port, and not just her "turnaround port" but every port that's called at during the ensuing voyage, there is a mandatory SOLAS (Safety of Life at Sea) requirement that the number of souls onboard (both pax and crew) be reported to appropriate authorities. This has to be done within a mandatory time period (usually when the break/gangway door is closed and secured) after departure from that port and is done by a Front Office supervisor.

 

The amount/number of passengers and crew you'll find listed on your cruise log delivered to your cabin on the last night of your voyage is taken directly from the SOLAS report prepared for the last port prior to arrival back at the "turnaround port". There is no "fudging" of numbers here and no "conspiracy theory" at work! Those numbers are accurate!

[SJSULIBRARIAN]

Every time a ship departs from a port, and not just her "turnaround port" but every port that's called at during the ensuing voyage, there is a mandatory SOLAS (Safety of Life at Sea) requirement that the number of souls onboard (both pax and crew) be reported to appropriate authorities. This has to be done within a mandatory time period (usually when the break/gangway door is closed and secured) after departure from that port and is done by a Front Office supervisor.

 

The amount/number of passengers and crew you'll find listed on your cruise log delivered to your cabin on the last night of your voyage is taken directly from the SOLAS report prepared for the last port prior to arrival back at the "turnaround port". There is no "fudging" of numbers here and no "conspiracy theory" at work! Those numbers are accurate!

 

Thank you Copper 10-8 for another interesting and fascinating fact of life at sea. I never would have known of this requirement.

Edited January 8, 2015 by SJSULIBRARIAN

[sun~]

 

The amount/number of passengers and crew you'll find listed on your cruise log delivered to your cabin on the last night of your voyage is taken directly from the SOLAS report prepared for the last port prior to arrival back at the "turnaround port". There is no "fudging" of numbers here and no "conspiracy theory" at work! Those numbers are accurate!

 

No, I don't believe what is handed out in the cruise log is always accurate. I will ask on January 18th on my upcoming charter.

 

On the 2014 LRBC charter the cruise log listed the ship with the number of passengers given on the Nieuw Amsterdam official stats. It absolutely wasn't true for the LRBC charter. Every single cabin is sold, many, many at full capacity of 4 persons per cabin. There is only one person that I know of that travels in as a single. The charter is just too expensive (it is about $2700 pp for a low end balcony cabin, so at $5400 for 7 days for a single, it is just too expensive for most). I had heard there were about 2500 passengers on board, not the 2100 as listed on the cruise log. I will check to see what is accurate!

[oaktreerb]

Every time a ship departs from a port, and not just her "turnaround port" but every port that's called at during the ensuing voyage, there is a mandatory SOLAS (Safety of Life at Sea) requirement that the number of souls onboard (both pax and crew) be reported to appropriate authorities. This has to be done within a mandatory time period (usually when the break/gangway door is closed and secured) after departure from that port and is done by a Front Office supervisor.

 

The amount/number of passengers and crew you'll find listed on your cruise log delivered to your cabin on the last night of your voyage is taken directly from the SOLAS report prepared for the last port prior to arrival back at the "turnaround port". There is no "fudging" of numbers here and no "conspiracy theory" at work! Those numbers are accurate!

 

Interesting. On our Zaandam Alaska cruise ending July 4, 2014 our dining room service was very slow and many tables were left vacant in open dining even as people had to wait to be seated. When I asked why service was slow and people were asked to wait even though I knew tables had been left empty each evening I was told that a crew had not been able to board the ship in Juneau and they were short staffed.

 

I know a staff member from the Pinnacle was serving food in the Lido at breakfast. I understood that servers from the dining room had been assigned to the Lido at dinner. This was the reason given for leaving tables empty while asking diners to wait. The MDR did not have enough staff in the dining room to serve all of the tables.

 

So, I just checked our cruise log. It shows 1,581 guests with 603 crew. This is a ratio of appx 2.6 guests per crew member throughout the ship. According to a TA rating for the Zaandam the capacity of the ship is 1440 with crew of 647. The ratio at this capacity would be closer to 2.2 guests per crew member.

 

So, the ship was totally filled to capacity and understaffed. I responded to the quality evaluation by indicating that they needed to assign more staff to the dining room.

 

The ship was full because of late cuts in cruise fares. HAL oversold and understaffed.

Edited January 8, 2015 by oaktreerb

[esimon]

Lots of cynics out there LOL -- there are other cruise lines --

[oaktreerb]

Lots of cynics out there LOL -- there are other cruise lines --

 

Still like the cruise line. Still like the food. Still like the comfy beds. Not sure I'd do better elsewhere. The last cruise on the Veendam was wonderful. I'm not ready to switch. I'd just like them to increase staffing in the MDR.

[Jim Avery]

Lots of cynics out there LOL -- there are other cruise lines --

 

Yes, there are. Vote with the wallet.:D

[kazu]

Yes, there are. Vote with the wallet.:D

 

you sound a tad cynical. We all vote with our wallets ;)

 

How was your cruise on the Veendam and what did YOUR cruise log say (assuming you saved it)

 

It's the one thing from my cruises I started to make sure I save.

 

I don't dispute the cruise logs but each to their own;)

[boone2]

No, I don't believe what is handed out in the cruise log is always accurate. I will ask on January 18th on my upcoming charter.

 

 

 

Why would you not believe facts a crew member gives you. The crews information is far more accurate than anything you would read on forums

Terry

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Forums mobile app

[doncarlos]

let me try a different take on this >>>>> now we plan , plan ,plan by ordering wine well ahead [ and let the wine stu know we will"remember " him, and I really hate to go to that pre tip game ] , planning our dinner during the day to not delay the stu's tight schedule to place orders in the galley [ read posted menu ] , deciding when to hit the MDR for breakfast to avoid the "wave ' , ditto the Lido lunch or Breakfast wave , when to expect the cabin stu can tiddy up , when to visit the lounges to get the best service , etc etc...what is wrong with this picture ???? simply:::: lack of premium service due to understaffing..... is the tail waging the dog or its causing me to live my life on board to best fit in to HAL's understaffing scheduling problems in order to get acceptable - medioker- mainline [ no more no less ] service - attention ??????

 

I am as of last Fall paying more for Cunard , Seabourn , etc less penny pinching products until Meadows gets the memo . I would hope Meadows and Board [ I am a CCL stock holder ] would get the thoughts of a guy close to 5 stars

[sun~]

No, I don't believe what is handed out in the cruise log is always accurate. I will ask on January 18th on my upcoming charter.

 

 

 

Why would you not believe facts a crew member gives you. The crews information is far more accurate than anything you would read on forums

Terry

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Forums mobile app

 

You must have misunderstood. I am going to ask for the exact numbers when I am on board on the 18th.

 

I agree there is are things that are posted these boards that are less than accurate ;)

[LiseD]

There have been some great points made here. I have been thinking about the cruise log and numbers listed. For me it really doesn't matter how many crew members are on the ship. It matters how many tables is my waiter trying to serve? How many rooms is our steward trying to clean? How many bar tenders are working during busy time? etc What we noticed was our room steward told us he had over 30 rooms to clean. Most days our room was not cleaned until 2pm. Our waiter in the MD had at least 15 tables (that we counted him at, could have been more). Our wine steward showed us the area he was trying to cover and it was 1/2 of the upstairs dining room. We noticed most times only one bar tender working at busy times like sail away, New Years Eve etc. It took us 1 1/2 hours to get food at the Pinnacle Grill and this was at 8:30 and about 1/2 the tables were empty. Our server was trying to wait on all the tables there. Service at the afternoon tea was painfully slow. There might be tons of employees on the ship, but for me it is are there enough in the areas needed? It was being talked about by many guests on board. So I know we were not the only ones to notice.

 

With this said, we love HA and this is the first time we have experienced this. So it would not make us change to another cruise line just yet. It might have been a fluke. Were employees out sick? Were there a lot of new employees? That is why I asked the question to begin with. Was just wondering if HA was really cutting back on staff. It was a holiday cruise, so probably a lot more guests than normal. We thought the food was excellent. We loved the music in the bars. Employees were hard working and always friendly. HA is still a great line....just hoping IF they are cutting way back that they would reconsider. I would hate for them to quit being the wonderful line they are known for!

Edited January 9, 2015 by LiseD

[cbr663]

let me try a different take on this >>>>> now we plan , plan ,plan by ordering wine well ahead [ and let the wine stu know we will"remember " him, and I really hate to go to that pre tip game ] , planning our dinner during the day to not delay the stu's tight schedule to place orders in the galley [ read posted menu ] , deciding when to hit the MDR for breakfast to avoid the "wave ' , ditto the Lido lunch or Breakfast wave , when to expect the cabin stu can tiddy up , when to visit the lounges to get the best service , etc etc...what is wrong with this picture ???? simply:::: lack of premium service due to understaffing..... is the tail waging the dog or its causing me to live my life on board to best fit in to HAL's understaffing scheduling problems in order to get acceptable - medioker- mainline [ no more no less ] service - attention ??????

 

I am as of last Fall paying more for Cunard , Seabourn , etc less penny pinching products until Meadows gets the memo . I would hope Meadows and Board [ I am a CCL stock holder ] would get the thoughts of a guy close to 5 stars

 

I see working around the service problems the same as condoning it, and it appears from this thread that many are more than willing to accept it. Like you, we are not, which is one of the reasons we cancelled our HAL cruise for the end of this month and are boarding Celebrity instead.

[jimmy2x]

I see working around the service problems the same as condoning it, and it appears from this thread that many are more than willing to accept it. Like you, we are not, which is one of the reasons we cancelled our HAL cruise for the end of this month and are boarding Celebrity instead.

 

It will be interesting to see how you make out. I see the the same complaints on the "X" forum.

[sail7seas]

I see working around the service problems the same as condoning it, and it appears from this thread that many are more than willing to accept it. Like you, we are not, which is one of the reasons we cancelled our HAL cruise for the end of this month and are boarding Celebrity instead.

 

Please post some comments when you return. Some of us would be very interested to hear your comparison.

 

[cruz chic]

There have been some great points made here. I have been thinking about the cruise log and numbers listed. For me it really doesn't matter how many crew members are on the ship. It matters how many tables is my waiter trying to serve? How many rooms is our steward trying to clean? How many bar tenders are working during busy time? etc What we noticed was our room steward told us he had over 30 rooms to clean. Most days our room was not cleaned until 2pm. Our waiter in the MD had at least 15 tables (that we counted him at, could have been more). Our wine steward showed us the area he was trying to cover and it was 1/2 of the upstairs dining room. We noticed most times only one bar tender working at busy times like sail away, New Years Eve etc. It took us 1 1/2 hours to get food at the Pinnacle Grill and this was at 8:30 and about 1/2 the tables were empty. Our server was trying to wait on all the tables there. Service at the afternoon tea was painfully slow. There might be tons of employees on the ship, but for me it is are there enough in the areas needed? It was being talked about by many guests on board. So I know we were not the only ones to notice.

 

With this said, we love HA and this is the first time we have experienced this. So it would not make us change to another cruise line just yet. It might have been a fluke. Were employees out sick? Were there a lot of new employees? That is why I asked the question to begin with. Was just wondering if HA was really cutting back on staff. It was a holiday cruise, so probably a lot more guests than normal. We thought the food was excellent. We loved the music in the bars. Employees were hard working and always friendly. HA is still a great line....just hoping IF they are cutting way back that they would reconsider. I would hate for them to quit being the wonderful line they are known for!

 

15 tables? There must have been something seriously wrong there. I've never seen anything like that on all my 300+ days on hal.

[cruz chic]

I see working around the service problems the same as condoning it, and it appears from this thread that many are more than willing to accept it. Like you, we are not, which is one of the reasons we cancelled our HAL cruise for the end of this month and are boarding Celebrity instead.

 

Good luck with Celebrity. The last cruise I was on with Celebrity the service was truly dismal in the mdr. I believe I paid something like $25 for corkage and trying to get someone to serve my white wine was like pulling teeth. The second night they slammed in down on the table, no ice bucket. The food was either very good or so bad you couldn't eat it. The mdr had one line for both people with reserves and walk ups. It was at least 30 deep every time I went. Any business you had at the front desk would take a minimum of a half hour every day.

[LiseD]

We counted the tables in our area that our waiter was serving. We did hear about one of the band members becoming sick and unable to perform. I wonder if there might have been a lot of crew out sick but of course they didn't want to mention it? We were all given the letter about washing hands and they gave us bottles of hand sanitizer. The letter made mention of stomach bug and to go to dr at any sign of sickness.

 

I also overheard someone say they had taken on some new crew members in San Diego....so maybe just not enough trained??? Like I said above...we really like HA.....had become our "favorite" after trying many lines. So will not quit sailing with them because of one "slow" cruise.

[Strawberry]

Doncarlos - I agree with you completely. After 70 cruises on various lines beginning in 1980 we decided not to cruise any more at all because if exactly things things you point out. I have been following the various postings on the Holland America Forum because our resolve had "weakened" and we booked another Alaska cruise for this summer. However, after reading recent postings I can see that, if anything, the situation is getting worse. We are probably just going to cancel and stick with our original plan of no more cruises.

[Copper10-8]

......................... We did hear about one of the band members becoming sick and unable to perform. I wonder if there might have been a lot of crew out sick but of course they didn't want to mention it? ...............................

 

I also overheard someone say they had taken on some new crew members in San Diego....so maybe just not enough trained??? Like I said above...we really like HA.....had become our "favorite" after trying many lines. So will not quit sailing with them because of one "slow" cruise.

 

We were on that Veendam New Year's cruise with you;

 

1. That band member was not sick; he missed the ship in Mazatlan, rejoined (at his on cost; a bus ride) in PV, and left in San Diego (end of contract) on 12/08/14

2. There were not a lot of sick crew

3. VEDM had about 66 new crew join in San Diego

4. If you're talking about dining room/Lido/PG stewards as well as room stewards; they are all fully trained when they join a ship, either in Indonesia (as brand new crew prior to their 1st contract) at the ss New Jakarta school and/or coming from another (or the same) ship after their prior contract

5. Our two room stewards had eighteen cabins to maintain/clean (Deck 10, starboard side

6. Our dining room steward was responsible for five tables (7:45/2nd seating. There is no doubt he was struggling at times and appeared rushed. His asst showed up mid-way through the service/was assigned elsewhere prior )

[cruz chic]

We were on that Veendam New Year's cruise with you;

 

1. That band member was not sick; he missed the ship in Mazatlan, rejoined (at his on cost; a bus ride) in PV, and left in San Diego (end of contract) on 12/08/14

2. There were not a lot of sick crew

3. VEDM had about 66 new crew join in San Diego

4. If you're talking about dining room/Lido/PG stewards as well as room stewards; they are all fully trained when they join a ship, either in Indonesia (as brand new crew prior to their 1st contract) at the ss New Jakarta school and/or coming from another (or the same) ship after their prior contract

5. Our two room stewards had eighteen cabins to maintain/clean (Deck 10, starboard side

6. Our dining room steward was responsible for five tables (7:45/2nd seating. There is no doubt he was struggling at times and appeared rushed. His asst showed up mid-way through the service/was assigned elsewhere prior )

 

Thx for your info. The amount of people that your MDR steward had to handle lines up with my experience. I wonder why someone would be saddled with 15 tables if others were only waiting on 5 ;).

[redhot1]

Copper 8-10, I rerspect your valuable opinion and always follow your post as an excellent guideline. We were on that cruise also deck 10 aft 091 and our room steward said he had 29 cabins,I assume on the starboard side as that is where I saw him all the time. I don't know the exact number of tables our dinning steward had but the service was difinately off and slow as he and his team were trying as hard as they could but were not keeping up. We ate at several stations and the same was true of all the tables we ate at.Again I don't fault the crew but HAL for not having enough personel to cover the service and or rooms. I emailed Seattle and they did apologize but I do think they better rethink their business model and plan because passengers will only go so far then then they revolt and and your losses will be greater than your savings, its as simple as that. You get what you pay for. They are a good cruise line but airline mentality isn't going to work and foot the bill. They will lose market shaqqre and they have a very definater niche and you will erode that niche if they keep going in the direction they are headed.:):):)