Cunard in the 1920's

[Lakesregion]

From an advertisement in Harper's Magazine - Cunard Sailings from NY and Montreal to England between May 27 and June 19

New York City

 

Aquitania

Berengaria

Mauretania

Franconia

Carmania

Tuscania

Caronia

Laconia

Scythia

Samaria

 

Montreal

Aurania

Ausonia

Ascabia

Aluania

Antonia

Athenia

Andania

Letitia

 

In addition to Cunard during this same time from there were 13 other lines sailing 55 additional ocean liners to the England and the continent. Those were the days . We shall not see them again. And all of those people managed to sail without cell phones, Wi-Fi and at least in first class with a lot of luggage, fine gowns and tuxedos. And of course with part of their household staff. If one takes a good look at the QE2 layout for inside cabins one notices that many of them were side by side with Queens Grill cabins etc. Not to entice the people looking for the cheap seats but to be used by the Grill passenger's staff.

[loubetti]

That's when Cunard was Cunard, and a ship was "The Only Way to Cross". Boeing ended it all in 1958, and as a pilot I am a bit ambivalent about it, but that's reality. 6 hours vs 5-6 days, who wins? Pan Am, TWA, et al.

 

Thanks for sharing. :)

[pepperrn]

... who wins? Pan Am, TWA, ...

Well certainly not either of them, they're no longer with us... and haven't been for years... but Cunard is! :)

 

1969; QE2 entered service, Concorde first flew.

It was predicted at the time that Cunard had made a mistake and QE2 would be retired almost immediately!

 

It has made me think, when sailing on ocean-liner QM2, past museum-exhibit Concorde, in New York... Supersonic flights across the pond were supposed to be the end of people crossing by sea... ;) :D

Edited March 13, 2015 by pepperrn

[DWhit]

Plus I believe there was a lot of immigration to America by ship in those long ago days. I wonder how full the ships were on their return trips to England?

[pepperrn]

Plus I believe there was a lot of immigration to America by ship in those long ago days. I wonder how full the ships were on their return trips to England?

Hi DWit,

 

I understand that, immediately prior to WWI, there was considerable east-bound tourist traffic (university students, teachers, other "middle class" professionals). There was also a limited east-bound traffic in immigrants who had made some money in the New World, and then returned to Europe to encourage extended family to follow in their footsteps and go west. Or, having "made good", settled back in the Old World with their new-found wealth.

Then in the 20s, many soldiers who had seen Europe in the war, took their wives on vacation around the now peaceful countries, visiting battlefield sites, but also historic cities etc that they had only glimpsed in wartime. They travelled in "Tourist Third", or when possible, 2nd or "Cabin" Class.

After the depression, during the 30s, traffic was much harder (in all classes) to come by.

After WWII, again there was surge in east-bound tourism, before the coming of the jet-age robbed the great transatlantic liners of their passengers.

Cunard Ist Class was esp hard-hit, as the newly invented "Jet-Set" had been "Cunard's People" in the past.

 

Even if crossing with Cunard in 3rd was far cheaper (at first) than flying across on a 707, there was glamour (and bragging rights) associated with flying over in a few hours on a modern clean-lined 'plane.

There was little glamour to the average person in spending five days or a week in a windowless inside cabin, that slept four in bunks, with shared "facilities" down the corridor...

Much as we now love the Art Deco look of QM or QE, in the early 60s the Deco detailing of QM's near 30 year-old interiors must have looked very old-fashioned compared with the space-age interior of a 707...

 

Best wishes,

Edited March 13, 2015 by pepperrn

[Jim Avery]

Plus I believe there was a lot of immigration to America by ship in those long ago days. I wonder how full the ships were on their return trips to England?

 

Yes, lots of ships existed due to immigration. Too bad we don't need ships to come from Mexico.:eek::D:D

[keithm]

Yes, lots of ships existed due to immigration. Too bad we don't need ships to come from Mexico.:eek::D:D

What? No Prairie Schooners?

[taki183]

That's when Cunard was Cunard, and a ship was "The Only Way to Cross". Boeing ended it all in 1958, and as a pilot I am a bit ambivalent about it, but that's reality. 6 hours vs 5-6 days, who wins? Pan Am, TWA, et al.

 

Thanks for sharing. :)

Cunard won Pan Am &TWA are kaput LOL :D

[sfb]

Is there an echo in here?

(posts 3 and 8).

Cheers.

[loubetti]

Cunard won Pan Am &TWA are kaput LOL :D

 

Really? Ever hear of Delta or American Airlines? Who do you think absorbed Pan Am and TWA respectively?

 

Air France, BOAC / BA, Lufthansa, Alitalia, United; all still around

 

Cunard did Not win, they lost BIG TIME. Ever hear of Cunard Eagle Airways, and the BOAC Cunard airlines? Cunard saw the trend and went into the airline biz, but then sold out to keep the ships running.

 

Who really won? Carnival Corp!

 

Not good to mess with a ship lover and experienced aviator!:D

 

 

[pepperrn]

... Ever hear of Cunard Eagle Airways, and the BOAC Cunard airlines? Cunard saw the trend and went into the airline biz, but then sold out to keep the ships running. ...

Hi Loubetti,

 

Great photos! (one of my favourite 'planes, the VC10)

 

Cunard first planned to operate aircraft under the Cunard name in the 40s, almost immediately after the war had finished. But in 1948 the British Government nationalised the civil aviation industry and formed two state-owned (and loss-making) companies, BEA and BOAC.

 

By 1960 the rules had been relaxed and privately owned airlines were being encouraged once more. Sir John Brocklebank, Cunard’s chairman, saw an opportunity. In 1961 he noted that Eagle Airways flew to many of the places on the US East Coast and in the Caribbean that Cunard’s ships sailed to. He came up with an idea, fly passengers transatlantic to the Caribbean and sail them home on a Cunard ship, or sail them to the warmth and sunshine from Southampton and let Cunard’s own airline return them to the UK.

 

Cunard bought 60% of Eagle and renamed it “Cunard Eagle”, but before any flights could commence, BOAC appealed to the British Government saying that this was unfair competition (despite the fact that BOAC didn’t cover the routes in question). As the government owned BOAC, which was losing vast amounts of money anyway, it isn’t surprising that they backed BOAC and withdrew the license to fly passengers transatlantic on the chosen routes from Cunard Eagle. In 1962 a deal was done between Cunard Eagle and BOAC. Cunard Eagle could continue to fly from New York to the Caribbean (and Florida), whilst the transatlantic trade would be handled by a new company, “BOAC-Cunard Airways”. It was to be 70% owned by BOAC (i.e. the British Government) and 30% by Cunard.

 

BOAC, as majority stock holder, set the fares (many of which were unattractive to Cunard’s passengers and made a mockery of Cunard’s original intentions of using the ‘planes to feed people to the ships) and refused to tie-in flights to days with Cunard sailings. The BOAC-Cunard company struggled on until the mid 60s (losing money all the while).

(In 1962 Cunard as a whole lost nearly £3 million (almost $8 million), while BOAC lost £13 million (over $36 million)).

 

This was not quite the end of Cunard’s involvement with airlines however. Sir John’s successor as Chairman of Cunard was Sir Basil Smallpiece. He had been an accountant in the airline industry and lately managing director of BOAC. He was proud that he knew nothing about ships or the maritime industry, in fact it later emerged he disliked ships and shipping in general, and saw his role as one to close down Cunard whilst getting the best possible price for the assets. He was a disaster for Cunard, the only way he knew to stay in the black was to “sell the family silver” and buy parts of land-based businesses not directly connected with ships. Eventually there was nothing left to sell and the losses mounted. By 1971 Cunard had been losing money for every year for ten years (except two). Sir Basil achieved his goal when independent Cunard was sold to Trafalgar House (a property developer and building company) in 1971. The “Trafalgar House years” were probably the bleakest in Cunard’s history.

 

That is a quick history of Cunard’s ill-fated attempt to enter the airline industry. Of course Cunard went on to set up an agreement with BOAC’s successor, British Airways, to use Concorde as part of a fly/sail deal for passengers, the famous and very popular “QE2 one way, Concorde the other” marketing campaign. Sir John would have been pleased!

 

Best wishes :) .

Edited March 15, 2015 by pepperrn

[Rotterdam]

The ships may not be as luxurious as they were in the 1960's - but I'd take a ship over todays airplanes to travel in anytime(as long as time allows.....

 

The airline industry is for most just a quick ride in a tin can, squished together w/ bad service, food(I haven't eaten or drank anything other than water - even in 1st class - in over 10 years now) and on time performance - never mind the ridiculous fees attached.

 

There certainly is a beauty to the engineering of flight - but other than that - a passage onboard a ship is the best way to travel.

[Seago2]

Yes, lots of ships existed due to immigration. Too bad we don't need ships to come from Mexico.:eek::D:D

 

Ouch.

 

My mother was one of the last people to get a visa out of Havana before the revolution. In perusing genealogical sites you can see the manifests of many liners my family sailed on between Havana and NYC, and there were a lot of trips in the two years before the revolution to get the family's Spanish jewelry out.

 

When you think about it, unless we are Native American, native Canadian, Mexican or are of recent American vintage, if we live in the US our people all came by boat. Some of those sailings were likely to have been extremely uncomfortable. Our ancestors in many cases had a tough row to hoe and I would add Mexicans to the list of those who have a difficult climb.

[loubetti]

Hi Loubetti,

 

Great photos! (one of my favourite 'planes, the VC10)

 

.

 

Hi Pepper,

 

I was almost ready to write the narrative you did, but just wanted to get to the point! :D Thanks for doing it.

 

Anyway, remember when Cunard owned the Ritz hotel in London? They also owned another one whose name escapes me. No different than when Pan Am owned Intercontinental Hotels. They sold off the chain to save the airline.

 

The opportunities were there for Cunard, but they were just mishandled.

 

On a brighter note, do you recall when Carnival tried their hand at hotels (Nassau) and their own airline? Both failed!

[Jim Avery]

Ouch.

 

My mother was one of the last people to get a visa out of Havana before the revolution. In perusing genealogical sites you can see the manifests of many liners my family sailed on between Havana and NYC, and there were a lot of trips in the two years before the revolution to get the family's Spanish jewelry out.

 

When you think about it, unless we are Native American, native Canadian, Mexican or are of recent American vintage, if we live in the US our people all came by boat. Some of those sailings were likely to have been extremely uncomfortable. Our ancestors in many cases had a tough row to hoe and I would add Mexicans to the list of those who have a difficult climb.

 

Please don't read anything sinister into my post. You are right, look back far enough and we all come from somewhere else. My Mother is English. I said nothing bad about Mexicans or any other immigrant group. My point is that if current immigrants needed ships, we would have many more options of "real ships" being used for transport.

[Jim Avery]

Hi Lou. Great pictures. I also loved the VC-10. Great times flying BOAC. WAAAYYYY better than a recent ordeal on Air Tahit Nui.:eek:

[Seago2]

Please don't read anything sinister into my post. You are right, look back far enough and we all come from somewhere else. My Mother is English. I said nothing bad about Mexicans or any other immigrant group. My point is that if current immigrants needed ships, we would have many more options of "real ships" being used for transport.

 

Ok I am sorry! I read it differently. Apologies for the confusion.