How much time for Denali?

[brentp]

After our early June NB cruise we are planning an 11 night RV road trip through Alaska, spending time in Valdez, Mat-Su Valley, Denali, and the Kenai Peninsula. We want to be flexible so are planning, but only pre-booking a few must do items.

 

For Denali area, we want to see the mountain itself and its wildlife. For the mountain, we have pre-booked a flight-seeing trip out of Talkeetna with glacial landing. This can be moved for weather reasons, so will stay in Talkeetna until the weather allows for a good flight experience as this is a high priority for us. We also have an option to spend a night in Denali State Park south of the NP in an area that allows for Denali views if she is 'out'.

 

That leaves going inside Denali NP only to see wildlife. In thinking this through, it is likely that at various points in the 3 weeks we are going to have in Alaska, we will be exposed to most of this wildlife at some point. The top being bears, which, we could fulfill through a bear viewing tour out of the Kenai area if we do not 'run' into enough of them elsewhere in AK. Moose are a bit of a lower priority for us given we live in New England and see moose frequently.

 

So, given the above, looking for folks to comment on how much (if any) time you think we should give to actually going into Denali NP? What might we miss if we skip altogether that we might not see elsewhere in Alaska? We are considering; no time, a 1 day self drive trip, to a full multi-day with bus pass to go deep. We will have a 7 day park pass already from the flight tour, so going in for a day might make the most sense.

 

Also, comments on going to Fairbanks would be appreciated. We are not currently planning any time there, but if we limit our time for Denali NP, we might free a day for a drive up. Thoughts & must see Fairbanks sites?

[mapleleaves]

For me, Denali is a must-do for each trip and I'd skip other activities to spend time there ..... it's not just the wildlife, it's the scenery, the vastness and beauty of the park. But that's me, and my priorities. (If you're in Talkeetna, you're only 3 hrs from Denali so easy enough to drive up there, do a shuttle to Eielson, overnight, then move on the next day.)

 

As for Fairbanks, if you don't know what to see and do there, just take it off the table now and concentrate on places you KNOW you want to see.

 

Keep in mind ... you're in an RV so you can be quite flexible. If the weather is miserable on arrival you might want to head north first to avoid a coastal storm. OR, you might have glorious weather and choose to spend your entire time exploring the Kenai Peninsula. (for my past 2 RV trips, I made 2 reservations at Denali ... at the beginning and end of the trip depending on which route we took).

[Budget Queen]

If your priority is McKinley, the view from inside the park is spectacular. It also depends on which flight you booked? In my opinion, ideal would be the summit flights (NOT summit view) which one vendor does offer with the glacier landing. The reason to do the landing, in my opinion, is purely for the ski plane experience. You aren't exposed to a lot of ice and it's pretty much a scenic snow stop. My priority is always in the air. I have also waited out McKinley 4 days with no view one trip. We saw a two minute partial peak view last year, with 3 days in the area.

 

What campground? I've stayed at Beyers Lake.

 

It also is "necessary" with a Lake Clark/Katmai trip to invest at least 2 days there. My min. now is 3 days, 2 overnights- at least. These HAVE to be booked in advance. I used 3 connections last year, (each told my to try someone else for availability) with my late booking that I was very lucky to get. Peak is July, so you are probably a ren't peak season. A very important factor to find out. Where I went the salmon run was late, and hadn't started. Fortunately- I already knew- these bears had a razor clam diet so not an issue for me, and I have seen bears eating salmon numerous times on other trips.

 

I really like Fairbanks and spend a lot of time there. Most people do not. :) http://www.explorefairbanks.com I always use it as a jumping off for my Arctic interests, wheather it being a single day of flying or a multiday trip.

 

Even with my long trips in mainland Alaska, I always have an itinerary in place. It's too big for any "winging" it for my priorities. (even with my RV trips)

 

I would suggest making some plans on the areas so those activities would all be grouped together and know the order of your direction. 11 days is a short time with your listed areas so far, Denali, Homer, Valdez, Mat Su- you are possibly adding Seward? You really don't have time for Fairbanks, in my opinion- with you wanting an open touring. You'll need at least 2 free days for that touring style.

[Budget Queen]

McKinley Mt- with a priority- I would take advantage of their buy 2 get 3 entries (if they still offer it this year?) With Wonder Lake the shuttle destination.

[Glaciers]

You might consider a Tek Pass that allows you to drive to mile 29 of the park road and camp at Teklanika River Campground. Most vehicles have to turn around at mile 15.

http://www.nps.gov/dena/planyourvisit/campground-tek.htm

[mapleleaves]

OP, please clarify the question.

I read this post as ' should we skip Denali NP since we'll see wildlife elsewhere' ? The Denali priority seemed to be a McKinley flightseeing trip, not getting INTO the park.

 

fyi, my 1st rv trip was 9 days .... Homer, Cooper Landing, Seward, Denali, Fairbanks. We stayed 2 nites everywhere except Cooper Landing. It was a fair amount of driving, 2 nites at each location except CooperLanding.

 

I would advise you to put together a rough itinerary with drive times to help you with the planning. This chart might help. Keep in mind that it is DRIVE TIME only .... doesn't take into consideration all the stops you make to take in the views, look for wildlife, etc http://www.alaska.org/advice/mileage-cha

[brentp]

Excellent, a couple of the folks I had hoped would chimed in. Here are a few answers to the questions raised – and then probably too much more information than one can read easily. :)

 

OP, please clarify the question. I read this post as ' should we skip Denali NP since we'll see wildlife elsewhere' ? The Denali priority seemed to be a McKinley flightseeing trip, not getting INTO the park.

 

Sort of, given we want to see a lot of Alaska in the limited days, how many days (if any) should we allocate to Denali NP and still be flexible, which as you point is the nice thing of an RV trip. For us, we can boil Denali NP down to: seeing Mt. McKinley (will be taken care of by air), and wildlife viewing.

 

Deep hikes, camping in the park, a very long bus ride to 'possibly' see a mountain we hopefully have already seen, etc, etc. are very low on our to-do list. It might not justify multiple days and getting fixed reservations for travel in advance (this just might be another trip). As for very scenic views, we will be in much of Alaska (the Richardson Hwy to Valdez, Mat-Su valley, Parks Hwy up to Denali, Kenai Peninsula, inside passage, etc.). I am assuming of course, that those views, while different, are impressive too like Denali NP. So yes, once we see the mountain, I think it boils down to the wildlife viewing opportunities, which we possibly can achieve elsewhere. We won’t be skipping the Denali area and the Alaskan range will be ever present while we are in that area.

 

It also depends on which flight you booked? I have also waited out McKinley 4 days with no view one trip. We saw a two minute partial peak view last year, with 3 days in the area.

 

What campground? I've stayed at Beyers Lake.

 

I really like Fairbanks and spend a lot of time there. Most people do not. :)

 

TAT Air – Base Camp with landing. They basically had a program a month or so ago where the landing was a small add on for this tour. This gets to the South, East, and West faces, a flyover of the base camp, and views of the other peaks that are there. It does not do the summit however, which did sound very interesting, but was not part of their promotion. We did chuckle a bit about the landing as the videos show mostly snow. We had enough of that in NH this year. Also, a 4 day wait is a bit hairy, that would certainly throw a wrench into anybody’s plans. We understand this can happen, so is one reason we booked this fairly early in the trip to be prepared and I keep using the word flexible. :)

 

Denali Northview campground, part of the State Park. I don’t think Beyers Lake has a direct mountain view, although it appears that Beyers Lake has a lot more to see/do (lakes, short hikes, etc.). The other thing we considered is this is at ~Mile 163, which is closer to the NP entrance, so we were considering using this as our home base for day trips to the NP so that we can avoid a need for fixed reservations with Beyers Lake as the backup.

 

OK – Fairbanks is out, might be another trip for us. Agreed, probably not enough there for us to ‘cram’ in yet one more stop in our 11 nights. Had we not needed to backtrack the Glenn Hwy to get to Talkeetna for the flight, we might have taken the Fairbanks loop to Denali from Valdez.

 

Rough Itinerary – yes, we have one already. Don’t want to bore people too much, so this is a very high level overview.

 

Day 1: RV Pickup Anchorage, provisions, start drive along Glenn Hwy towards Valdez.

 

Day 2-4: Richardson Hwy to Valdez (lots of stops for pipeline, sights, Worthington Glacier, etc.). Once in Valdez: Columbia Glacier tour, Valdez Glacier kayak & ice hikes.

 

Day 5: Backtrack Richardson/Glenn Hwy from Valdez to Talkeetna. TAT air flight is 6pm that night. We have flexibility here. If things get bogged down in Valdez, we can move this flight out. If things go well, we can depart Valdez afternoon on day 4 and start the backtrack early giving more time for sights along the way.

 

Day 6-7: Denali area (state park and national parks). This is dependent on the flight occurring on schedule.

 

Day 8-11: Kenai Peninsula. Seward (2 days – Exit Galcier/Harding Ice Field Hike, other sights), Cooper Landing for a night. We also want to make our way over to Ninilchik/Homer for a night if possible.

 

The end is where we have left the most flexibility. If we get completely washed out in Valdez, we can spend a day in Whittier for a PWS glacier tour there (or out of Seward if the seas are calm). That would take the east side of the peninsula out of the picture, but it is what it is. Also, if we do not see enough bears by this time, there are multiple flights out of Soldotna to Wolverine Creek.

 

Speaking of bears, we are right on the edge timewise of salmon runs in the peninsula. If they start on the early side of the norm this year in mid June, we just might see this in the area. If not, the flight to Wolverine Creek just starts to ramp up at that time so could be the fall back.

 

So, back to the original question. We don’t want to ‘give up’ Valdez, nor do we want to ‘give up’ the time we have in the Kenai Peninsula area. That leaves Day 6-7 as the squeeze point if things need to shift and why I asked the question. In a perfect world, we will have 2 days. Or, if the logic of being able to see the wildlife elsewhere is sound, then we could use those extra 2 days to fill in some other sights.

 

For completeness – the cruise plans look like this:

 

Ketchikan: walk the city. Maybe the lumberjack show or go crabbing with the deadliest catch crew. Still working this one.

 

Juneau: Renting a car. Mendinhall, eagle beach, a few other stops that have been recommended to us. Firm.

 

Skagway: Renting a car. Driving to the Yukon. Firm. I have heard bear viewing in this area in early June is a possibility as many will be in the fields feeding on grass (something about their digestive systems after hibernation).

 

Glacier NP.

 

Thanks again!

Edited April 1, 2015 by brentp

[Budget Queen]

 

TAT Air – Base Camp with landing. They basically had a program a month or so ago where the landing was a small add on for this tour. This gets to the South, East, and West faces, a flyover of the base camp, and views of the other peaks that are there. It does not do the summit however, which did sound very interesting, but was not part of their promotion. We did chuckle a bit about the landing as the videos show mostly snow. We had enough of that in NH this year. Also, a 4 day wait is a bit hairy, that would certainly throw a wrench into anybody’s plans. We understand this can happen, so is one reason we booked this fairly early in the trip to be prepared and I keep using the word flexible. :)

 

oon on day 4 and start the backtrack early giving more time for sights along the way.

 

 

 

Speaking of bears, we are right on the edge timewise of salmon runs in the peninsula. If they start on the early side of the norm this year in mid June, we just might see this in the area. If not, the flight to Wolverine Creek just starts to ramp up at that time so could be the fall back.

 

!

 

One point you may not be aware of, If you aren't on a summit flight, you can fail to see the summit on the lower flights. Even so, the scenery is spectacular even if you don't see all of McKinley. :) Just don't count on seeing it all.

 

Frankly, I never do any costly bear tours unless they are peak. The salmon runs were late last year on Lake Clark for example.

Edited April 1, 2015 by Budget Queen

[mapleleaves]

you don't have time for Denali NP. Looks like a great trip tho.

 

You might want to consider the ferry between Valdez and Whittier ...it's expensive but it will buy you an extra day, plus it saves on gas and mileage since you won't be backtracking. So your itinerary would be Anc, Talkeetna, Valdez, Whittier, Homer, Seward. The ferry requires a reservation.

 

You can do Denali, Fairbanks, and the Arctic on the next trip !

Have a great time !

[brentp]

Thank you both for being a 'sounding board'. It really is appreciated.

 

Yes, I missed the (now) glaring advantage of a summit flight - that any cloud ceiling needs to be above the peak for that flight. I am sure we will be satisfied with what we get, . . . and you never know, we might just be one of the lucky ones. :)

 

Thanks for the tip too on bear watching and not booking on a shoulder portion of the salmon runs. We'll leave that trip to a last minute decision. If the Russian River run hasn't yet begun in the days we are there (which likely would negate a need for a special bear trip), we can then call some of the air tours and find out the current success rate at Wolverine Creek before we book. By the way, has anyone done the Wolverine Creek bear watch? This is where you fly in, then get on a small flat bottom boat for the next xx hours. Sounds great, . . . until one realizes that they might need to use a bathroom and the shore is 'full' of bears. :)

 

The ferry Valdez/Whittier was actually one option we looked at initially. Then, I priced it out online and thought better (over $500. for an RV if I remember correctly). The drive in/out of Valdez is suppose to be outstanding, so this way we will get two passes through there - our miles are unlimited, and hopefully gas prices will remain depressed for the next two months. So, we put in the PWS cruise instead and hopefully now will be able to see Columbia Glacier before it retreats onto land. By the way, any preference on Stan Stephen or Lulu Belle?

 

Anyway, thanks again. I think we will go with the way we have it for Denali. Two days for Denali SP/NP if the flight takes place on time and not set up any advanced bookings. If things get compressed, then as you said there is always the next trip!

Edited April 1, 2015 by brentp

[Budget Queen]

Thank you both for being a 'sounding board'. It really is appreciated.

 

Yes, I missed the (now) glaring advantage of a summit flight - that any cloud ceiling needs to be above the peak for that flight. I am sure we will be satisfied with what we get, . . . and you never know, we might just be one of the lucky ones. :)

 

Thanks for the tip too on bear watching and not booking on a shoulder portion of the salmon runs. We'll leave that trip to a last minute decision. If the Russian River run hasn't yet begun in the days we are there (which likely would negate a need for a special bear trip), we can then call some of the air tours and find out the current success rate at Wolverine Creek before we book. By the way, has anyone done the Wolverine Creek bear watch? This is where you fly in, then get on a small flat bottom boat for the next xx hours. Sounds great, . . . until one realizes that they might need to use a bathroom and the shore is 'full' of bears. :)

 

The ferry Valdez/Whittier was actually one option we looked at initially. Then, I priced it out online and thought better (over $500. for an RV if I remember correctly). The drive in/out of Valdez is suppose to be outstanding, so this way we will get two passes through there - our miles are unlimited, and hopefully gas prices will remain depressed for the next two months. So, we put in the PWS cruise instead and hopefully now will be able to see Columbia Glacier before it retreats onto land. By the way, any preference on Stan Stephen or Lulu Belle?

 

Anyway, thanks again. I think we will go with the way we have it for Denali. Two days for Denali SP/NP if the flight takes place on time and not set up any advanced bookings. If things get compressed, then as you said there is always the next trip!

 

I have gone with Stan Stephens, they operate great tours.

 

Despite costs, the Valdez/Whittier ferry is superb. Unlike the cruise ships, this runs coastal and their naturalists on board are informative, passenger area comfortable. It makes a great loop option. I only do the regular ferry, not the fast ferry. It's a great trip.

 

Fly in, day, bear tours aren't anything I recommend, they are too short, you need at least an overnight, and the boat tour one, even more so, too limiting viewing. You may have a tough time late booking, unless you only need a single seat. These tours book well in advance.

 

What is your Russian River reference? Is there a tour operator involved? This is a large area, with any bear sightings, pure chance. I have had a few views from the road, and one time on a float. But these were during peak salmon runs. The rivers run for miles and miles- Kenai and Russian.

[brentp]

What is your Russian River reference? Is there a tour operator involved? This is a large area, with any bear sightings, pure chance. I have had a few views from the road, and one time on a float. But these were during peak salmon runs. The rivers run for miles and miles- Kenai and Russian.

 

Russian River Falls map point on this site. Yes, it is pure chance - more likely during the Salmon run. Down side is it is a 2 mile trail/walk in and one needs to be bear aware. But, it sounds like it might be worth the hike IF the salmon are running by mid-June. Have you been to this platform?

 

Russian River Falls

Edited April 1, 2015 by brentp

[Budget Queen]

Russian River Falls map point on this site. Yes, it is pure chance - more likely during the Salmon run. Down side is it is a 2 mile trail/walk in and one needs to be bear aware. But, it sounds like it might be worth the hike IF the salmon are running by mid-June. Have you been to this platform?

 

Russian River Falls

 

No I haven't walked back there. The salmon have to be running for viewing. It also is dependent on the numbers of people fishing, which also can keep the bears at a distance. I've seen hundreds of people lined up in these areas. :)

 

Being is a walk back, sounds like a great option to try when your schedule has half a day or so.

[mapleleaves]

When you're in Valdez, drive out to the Dayville Rd in the early evening. Again, you're too early for the salmon run, but it's a popular spot to see bear and since you're in Valdez anyway, why not give it a try.

Go to any hatchery area in the early evening if you're close by.

 

Alaska has had a mild winter so the run might be early this year.

 

BTW, the Alaska Fish and Game web site has a section for wildlife viewing.

http://www.adfg.alaska.gov/index.cfm?adfg=viewing.main

[laughing husky]

I usually agree with budget queen, but with bears, I will agree to disagree. My husband is a photographer, and we like bears...we live north of Anchorage...we see bears pretty often...the best bear trip I have EVER been on ate the day fly in to the Katmai...not brooks falls. Everyone has the same dam pictures of the bear on the falls catching a fish....the best pics I have are of bear ...big brown ones...12' away from us....ten or twelve of them, digging clams before the salmon season. You can get bear trips out of Homer thar absolutely superb, and if this is your priority...I would highly suggest looking into this...they know where the bears are...you will,have to hike from a few hundred feet to a mile or so...and it will be wonderful....another great trip is to see the polar bears in September in Katovik with Sebastian Schnulle...who does bear guiding there....it is even more amazing than Katmai....lots to dream about and think about, isn't there....

[brentp]

Yes for sure, lots to dream and think about. Makes for fun planning anyway, especially when we will be visiting early in the season so some of the more traditional viewing methods might not yet be viable.

 

Oh - looked up Dayville Rd and it looks like a very scenic drive along the sound. Independent of any wildlife, might be a good thing to do one evening just to get out and about. I can see it now, out 'cruising' the road in our large RV - locals must love this. :)

 

Thanks again for the all the thoughts and details, certainly helps!

[Budget Queen]

I usually agree with budget queen, but with bears, I will agree to disagree. My husband is a photographer, and we like bears...we live north of Anchorage...we see bears pretty often...the best bear trip I have EVER been on ate the day fly in to the Katmai...not brooks falls. Everyone has the same dam pictures of the bear on the falls catching a fish....the best pics I have are of bear ...big brown ones...12' away from us....ten or twelve of them, digging clams before the salmon season. You can get bear trips out of Homer thar absolutely superb, and if this is your priority...I would highly suggest looking into this...they know where the bears are...you will,have to hike from a few hundred feet to a mile or so...and it will be wonderful....another great trip is to see the polar bears in September in Katovik with Sebastian Schnulle...who does bear guiding there....it is even more amazing than Katmai....lots to dream about and think about, isn't there....

 

Great information! I'd be afraid of myself if I lived in Alaska.

 

Just the point of view from a visitor. :) My trip was not to Brooks Falls, or salmon eating bears, it was also those razor eaters. :) The benefit of overnights, are the multiple sightings and having a lodge to go back and forth from, due to tides dictating the feeding. The costs weren't that much higher with overnights, so, in my case, the value of the day trips isn't worth the effort.

 

I got the polar information last year from a vendor in Fairbanks (some new associations, I was informed of with businesses I've had excellent tours with). Will have to consider planning it out, maybe next year- will be in London this year in Sept, maybe. :)

Edited April 2, 2015 by Budget Queen

[azevedan]

We spent 5 days in Denali NP (hiking and wildlife viewing) and another in Denali State Park and would have been happy spending more. Depends what your interests are. As others have said, the scenery is spectacular.