UBP Gratuities

[happygo]

I apologize if this has already been discussed but thought I would share just in case. We were on the Sun last week ( did not like btw) and had the UBP. We found a bartender that we really loved so we would frequent his bars as he moved throughout the day. He was literally the only one who could make a real Rum Runner, hand poured without all the box crap and he actually understood good service as opposed to the majority of the bar staff. It was terrible overall with the exception of our guy. I can't count on my own hands and feet how many people said the same on this cruise. On the last night, he shared with us that the 18% gratuity that shows on receipt for UPB customers does NOT go to him. Apparently there is a small percentage that is pooled from the inital cost of the UBP but the auto 18% shown on the receipt does not go directly to the individual making your drink. Hearing that totally made me understand why service in the bars was so poor. These people are slaving all day and most people ordering are thinking 18% is plenty when in reality, the bartenders are seeing a tiny bit of that. I added a buck or so here and there for some and always for our bartender who I will leave unnamed as I don't want to case him trouble. He is seriously questioning whether he will renew his contract and I totally understand why! Overall, the service on this cruise was the worst I have ever experienced to date. I can't help but surmise that the UBP promo is a nightmare for the bartenders.

[insanemagnet]

If staff will only do a good job if bribed, then it seems like the managers need to get a grip of the situation, and if necessary replace those staff who do not respond.

[zqvol]

I apologize if this has already been discussed but thought I would share just in case. We were on the Sun last week ( did not like btw) and had the UBP. We found a bartender that we really loved so we would frequent his bars as he moved throughout the day. He was literally the only one who could make a real Rum Runner, hand poured without all the box crap and he actually understood good service as opposed to the majority of the bar staff. It was terrible overall with the exception of our guy. I can't count on my own hands and feet how many people said the same on this cruise. On the last night, he shared with us that the 18% gratuity that shows on receipt for UPB customers does NOT go to him. Apparently there is a small percentage that is pooled from the inital cost of the UBP but the auto 18% shown on the receipt does not go directly to the individual making your drink. Hearing that totally made me understand why service in the bars was so poor. These people are slaving all day and most people ordering are thinking 18% is plenty when in reality, the bartenders are seeing a tiny bit of that. I added a buck or so here and there for some and always for our bartender who I will leave unnamed as I don't want to case him trouble. He is seriously questioning whether he will renew his contract and I totally understand why! Overall, the service on this cruise was the worst I have ever experienced to date. I can't help but surmise that the UBP promo is a nightmare for the bartenders.

 

 

and you believed him because?

 

It is in his interest to convince you to give him a larger tip. The UBP has nothing to do with his rate of pay. The bar tenders are compensated just like they have been for years. The only change is that the auto gratuity has increased from 15 % to 18%.

 

You are adding 2 + 2 and coming up with 7.

[happygo]

I believed him because at that point he didn't have a motivation to lie about it to me. It was the last drink on the last night. Maybe I'm gullible but I'm not inclined to belive he chose to lie to us. It makes sense to me. And honestly it is the only way I can justify in my mind why most of the bartenders had such a disinterested attitude and total lack of urgency. The bar would be packed and they moved at a snails pace. They would chat among themselves before acknowledging people waiting. At one point my husband ordered a draft beer. The gentlemen that took his order proceeded to take 5 minutes filling fruit garnish before pouring that beer. Our jaws dropped on that. That's one example of many that I could give you. And it was not just us feeling this way. Conversations at the bar, by the pool, on excursions very often went the route of how poor the service was in general. Several people we hung out with were first time cruisers or first time to NCL and vowed never to sail NCL again because of how poor it was.

 

Given the surge of new fees and gratuities, it makes perfect sense to me. The majority of people I met had the free UBP. 18% of zero is zero. I am not inclined to believe that NCL is giving the bartenders the 18% shown on receipt because there was no cost associated with it. For me it's not at all farfetched that the tips added to the purchase price are pooled which could be significant. But, there was a huge amount of people with the free one so where does the money come from for that?

 

I could be wrong. Wouldn't be the first or last. But I think there is definitely at least some truth in it. If it is true, it completely explains the general lack of motivation. Tips are motivation to do their job well and go above and beyond. When you take away the motivation, what you would have is exactly what we experienced on the Sun. I'm not saying they don't get tips or comp but companies exist for their bottom line. I've seen many companies make very unpopular decisions that negatively impact their employees to increase that bottom line. I imagine that in this scenario, it is certainly within the realm of possibility that this is one of those decisions.

[LrgPizza]

If he really said that to you, he should lose his job because employees are not allowed to discuss compensation with customers. The only reason they would risk their job to do so is if trying to get the big sympathy tip, which some will attempt.

[NLH Arizona]

and you believed him because?

 

It is in his interest to convince you to give him a larger tip. The UBP has nothing to do with his rate of pay. The bar tenders are compensated just like they have been for years. The only change is that the auto gratuity has increased from 15 % to 18%.

 

You are adding 2 + 2 and coming up with 7.

 

A fool and their money is soon parted. He had a huge motivation to say that to the OP, his motivation was to get a bigger tip, otherwise why bring it up. If he was that good, he should have made a bundle on extra tips, without bringing up his compensation. There are hundreds of stories told to get folks to give them additional tips.

Edited April 9, 2015 by NLH Arizona

[punkincc]

I believe the description of the 18% "gratuity" has been changed to gratuity and beverage "service charge". Same wording on the new 18% specialty dining add on. My opinion is that this is a CYA move by NCL after all the discussion about where the new 18% add on in Specialties and the increase from 15% to 18% on drinks is going, to NCL or to the staff. Adding the "service charge" wording allows NCL to pocket most of the 18% if they choose.

 

It seems to me that if the bartenders are truly getting 18% on all the packages sold, and on individual drinks for those not on the UBP, and if NCL is kicking in 18% for all the free packages given away, then these bartenders should be doing OK. They should be falling all over themselves to serve drinks and earn tips. But if the OP is correct in describing the service issues, it gives credence to idea that perhaps they are not so happy with the pay situation. If they feel they are being sc***ed by NCL on tips, then you would have the service situation described by the OP.

 

Although I m sure it was never discussed with them, I'll bet they have heard through the grapevine or through passengers that the former 15% grat has gone up 3%. Now if they weren't seeing 15% before, and they are seeing nothing of an extra 3% now in their pay, then they are not going to be happy campers. Just as we would not be in their situation. And if this server were trolling for bigger tips, they would have done it at the beginning of the cruise, not at the last drink on the last night. Not everyone who works for NCL is a lier surely?

 

It will be interesting to see if reports of the same service issues become common across NCL. Perhaps a lower standard of service is another thing NCL feels their loyal passengers will suffer gladly, and the new cruiser will accept as the norm. I always said NCL had the most genuinely happy crew ( and the best service ) I had ever seen. If this is changing, then something is going on.

Edited April 9, 2015 by punkincc

[mjkacmom]

We purchased the UBP, and I just assumed the added gratuity was put into a pool, not that each bartender was getting a tip on each drink. Never had any service problems, maybe because we tipped extra for each drink? I can't imagine not tipping if it was received for free. If you go somewhere, like a wedding, with open bar, you still tip for each drink, right?

[punkincc]

We purchased the UBP, and I just assumed the added gratuity was put into a pool, not that each bartender was getting a tip on each drink. Never had any service problems, maybe because we tipped extra for each drink? I can't imagine not tipping if it was received for free. If you go somewhere, like a wedding, with open bar, you still tip for each drink, right?

 

If it was a cash bar, and they had a sign on the bar top that 18% was added to the price of each drink, would you still tip the bartender? Some or many who purchase the package or buy by the drink may feel like their obligation to tip has been met by the 18%. And you would probably assume that the bartender is getting all of it.

[NLH Arizona]

If the bartender thinks he is getting stiffed by the company and doesn't like what he is getting paid, I think that he would leave when his contract is up and get another job. Complaining to the passengers is totally unprofessional, just as it is tacky for a passenger to inquire how they are paid or what they make or listening to their complaints. If a crew member starts discussing their salary, etc., with me, I would certainly, from now on because of so many examples given on here lately, speak with their supervisor, because they are usually just trolling for tips.

[triptolemus]

I believe the description of the 18% "gratuity" has been changed to gratuity and beverage "service charge". Same wording on the new 18% specialty dining add on. My opinion is that this is a CYA move by NCL after all the discussion about where the new 18% add on in Specialties and the increase from 15% to 18% on drinks is going, to NCL or to the staff. Adding the "service charge" wording allows NCL to pocket most of the 18% if they choose.

.

 

I don't think it matters much what the website or printed material says. I'd bet the ticket presented to the customer at the bar still says "auto gratuity" on it. What is the customer supposed to believe? Do we really have to do all this external rationalization? Or, really, is "auto gratuity" on the ticket enough?

[hawkeyetlse]

And honestly it is the only way I can justify in my mind why most of the bartenders had such a disinterested attitude and total lack of urgency. The bar would be packed and they moved at a snails pace. They would chat among themselves before acknowledging people waiting.

I have noticed on most ships (long before the UBP and Freestyle Choice) that the staff at certain bars just have an attitude. As you described: inattentive, unfriendly, slow service. I think when you have a small team of bartenders that tend to work the same shifts together, if one person feels bitter and dissatisfied and gives in to the temptation of taking it out on passengers, this can easily spread to the entire team. I've never experienced any outright rudeness that was worth reporting, it's just an unpleasant vibe at one or two bars.

[mantadiver]

I was on the Sun last week as well and had the UBP. I had no problems at any of the bars. I used most of them, but I had my favorite in the great outdoors cafe. I never had to wait long and I received good service. I did slip the bartender a $20 on my last night and he appreciated it and in many conversations with him he never mentioned that he was unhappy with the tip system. He did say he was unhappy with his work environment in that he had to work long hours and 7 days a week and didn't like always being told what to do by his superiors, but I bet a lot of us would't like the working conditions like that either.

[triptolemus]

I have noticed on most ships (long before the UBP and Freestyle Choice) that the staff at certain bars just have an attitude. As you described: inattentive, unfriendly, slow service. I think when you have a small team of bartenders that tend to work the same shifts together, if one person feels bitter and dissatisfied and gives in to the temptation of taking it out on passengers, this can easily spread to the entire team. I've never experienced any outright rudeness that was worth reporting, it's just an unpleasant vibe at one or two bars.

 

Let's face it. Bar customers can occasionally be dicks. Having bartended for a number of years, I speak from experience. They can be picky, rude, demanding, and impossible to satisfy. I think of the pool-side bars... having that friggin' soda cup waved in your face demanding instant service repeatedly is enough to put anyone off their day.

[LrgPizza]

Let's face it. Bar customers can occasionally be dicks. Having bartended for a number of years, I speak from experience. They can be picky, rude, demanding, and impossible to satisfy. I think of the pool-side bars... having that friggin' soda cup waved in your face demanding instant service repeatedly is enough to put anyone off their day.

Agreed. I also have worked at a bar. Generally it seems that if those hanging out at the bar are a happy, fun crowd, the bartenders respond in kind. If they are being a bunch of whiny, complaining, bitter jerks, the bartenders will be less jovial, as you can imagine.

 

I've seen drastically different bar personalities at different bars on the same ship. Usually if you look around at who the guests are, you can figure out why.

[punkincc]

I don't think it matters much what the website or printed material says. I'd bet the ticket presented to the customer at the bar still says "auto gratuity" on it. What is the customer supposed to believe? Do we really have to do all this external rationalization? Or, really, is "auto gratuity" on the ticket enough?

 

It matters if NCL does not actually use it as a gratuity.

 

You don't think NCL needs to be clear with passengers what the tipping situation is where the 18% is added on to the bill? Or are we just supposed to guess whether or not it goes to the staff in full or if NCL takes some or even all of it because they also call it a "service charge". I want to be clear on what my tipping obligations are.

 

It was easy when we just had the DSC. Our obligation to tip was fulfilled by the DSC and NCL could divide it up as they saw fit. But now they had muddied the waters by adding 18% and calling it both a "gratuity" and a "service charge".

 

Note the glaring discrepancy on NCL's website:

 

An 18% gratuity and specialty service charge will be added to the package price ( for UDP ). Same wording for Beverage packages.

 

Under Frequently Asked Questions:

 

Are gratuities included in UDP?

 

A. No. If you wish to recognize the crew for their service, you may do so at time of service by using the gratuity line on the check. Plus, an 18% gratuity and beverage service charge will automatically added to all beverage sales.

 

So don't tell me in one breath that there is now an 18% auto gratuity added to the check "for my convenience" and then tell me elsewhere that a gratuity is NOT included and I should write one in on the check ( right next to the 18% auto gratuity, I guess).

[triptolemus]

It matters if NCL does not actually use it as a gratuity.

 

No, it really doesn't matter much -- if "matter" means what people may or may not leave as an additional tip.

 

All that "matters" is what most passengers will do when they see "auto gratuity" on the ticket.

 

Are gratuities included in UDP?

 

This thread is about the UBP.

[NLH Arizona]

You don't think NCL needs to be clear with passengers what the tipping situation is where the 18% is added on to the bill? Or are we just supposed to guess whether or not it goes to the staff in full or if NCL takes some or even all of it because they also call it a "service charge". I want to be clear on what my tipping obligations are.

 

NCL doesn't owe their customers any information as to what and how they pay their employees. I'm sure if the employees didn't think they were getting a fair shake, there wouldn't be those that have been with the line for many, many years.

[insanemagnet]

Tips are motivation to do their job well and go above and beyond.

 

Correct, so somebody doing an adequate, but not exceptional job, should not expect a tip.

 

What you have described are people doing an inadequate job, and you think the way to motivate the is to tip them?

 

The correct solution is to employ staff who want to deliver good service, pay them correctly, and ensure that management deals with poor performance promptly.

[punkincc]

No, it really doesn't matter much -- if "matter" means what people may or may not leave as an additional tip.

 

All that "matters" is what most passengers will do when they see "auto gratuity" on the ticket.

 

This thread is about the UBP.

 

And everything I said applies to the UBP as well.

 

I don't need to know the mechanics of how NCL pays their staff. It is none of my business EXCEPT where NCL makes it my business by installing an 18% gratuity and service charge.

 

If NCL does not want to make it my business, they should just increase the DSC and do with the money behind the scenes what they will and my obligation to tip is fulfilled. As it is, I have no idea whether I have tipped the server in Cagneys or the bartender on the pool deck, or if I have just paid a creatively worded "service charge" which does not go to compensation at all.

[triptolemus]

As it is, I have no idea whether I have tipped the server in Cagneys or the bartender on the pool deck, or if I have just paid a creatively worded "service charge" which does not go to compensation at all.

 

If the ticket says "auto gratuity" why are you confused about any of this? A resonable person should ocnclude that if it says auto-gratuity, then its an auto-gratuity. If NCL is using "creative" language then that, along with the net result for crew, is NCL's problem.

 

Maybe I'm stupid. I'm just not getting your point.

 

I'm also not sure where all this uncertainty about what NCL does with the auto-grat comes from. One or two posters say they spoke with a bartender who is upset about things? Seriously?

 

Bah... this topic sucks.

Edited April 9, 2015 by triptolemus

[rochelle_s]

On the Gem in November I thought the bar service, regardless of location appalling. I tipped extra cash ($1 -5) for each and every drink I received including those at the latitudes party. This was definitely out of habit and certainly not for good service. Never once did I receive anything even remotely resembling excellent service and we are talking about simple drinks here. One night I was playing the slot machines in Bliss for 4 hours and not once was I asked if I wanted something to drink. This is a bar! What else do they have to do but see if folks want a drink. I did think to myself that it was very odd that I did not come across at least 1 employee who was a go-getter, interested in making as much money as possible, after all they were guaranteed 15% (at that time) on every drink. Perhaps they do not get all the gratuity and there is no real incentive for them. I have seen a lot of wait and bar staff over the years and there is always people who will really hustle and want to earn as much as possible. There is the odd slagger but they are usually weeded out. NCL should be able to clearly see who these folks are if the staff use individualized numbers or codes to log in and place orders. I cannot recall if chits I have received in the past show who the specific server was.

 

 

Rochelle

[LMaxwell]

Correct, so somebody doing an adequate, but not exceptional job, should not expect a tip.

 

What you have described are people doing an inadequate job, and you think the way to motivate the is to tip them?

 

The correct solution is to employ staff who want to deliver good service, pay them correctly, and ensure that management deals with poor performance promptly.

 

Are frequent NCL cruisers seeing a decline in service attitudes or in service volume as well? On RCI there has been a noticeable lack of pool deck servers and bars having less bar tenders / longer waits for drinks.

 

I think once someone has a package they aren't likely to tip additional; they paid for a package for convenience and budget. I'm sure some do, but many people claim to drink 10+ drinks a day and tip "a buck or two" on each drink. Sorry, I just don't believe that a lot people are tipping $70-$140 on top of the gratuity built into the drink package over the course of a week. Very, very few at any rate.

 

That said, once NCL has your money, and the majority of tips are "in the bag", NCL really has no reason to motivate bar staff to provide faster service, or to provide more overall bar staffing either. What have you frequent cruisers seen over the last few years on service levels?

[NLH Arizona]

I tipped extra cash ($1 -5) for each and every drink I received including those at the latitudes party. This was definitely out of habit and certainly not for good service. Never once did I receive anything even remotely resembling excellent service and we are talking about simple drinks here.

Do you think that possibly if others were tipping for inadequate service as well, the bartenders thought that the service they were giving was satisfactory. Possibly if folks didn't just tip to tip and based their extra tips on the service, the service from the bartenders would improve. Just a thought!

[LMaxwell]

I tipped extra cash ($1 -5) for each and every drink I received including those at the latitudes party. This was definitely out of habit and certainly not for good service. Never once did I receive anything even remotely resembling excellent service and we are talking about simple drinks here.

 

I am not beating up on you, but, simply stop with the generosity. My opinion on tipping is to reward good service. The auto-gratuities in place take care of "normal" service. Good service earns/deserves a bit extra. Substandard service, well, the auto-gratuities handle that too.

 

When workers put a spring in their step and smile on their face they tend to earn more tips. To tip for substandard service only normalizes it. If they can slack and get $1-$5 from you...why run to someone else instead? When they realize you're not an ATM machine their attitudes will improve as they try harder. It's almost impossible to "phone in" service.

Edited April 9, 2015 by LMaxwell