Time To For A Reality Check For Mr. Fain

[critterchick]

Well if they keep putting the prices up, they won't need any more new ships. No body will be able to afford to sail on any of them. Its not just the actual cruise fair either, there are becoming more and more things to pay for whilst on board now a days as well.

I am beginning to think that Royal Caribbean are on a death wish.

 

Unfortunately for those of us who are price-conscious, there's a lot of money in the world. RCI are chasing the first time cruiser bucks, and it would appear that they are hugely successful in doing so, since the ships seem to sail full, or close to it, most of the time. They will continue to raise prices until they can't get what they're asking for their cruises, then they will discount them or start at a lower point.

 

Royal Caribbean is causing confusion with their new pricing the $50.00 deposits to hold a cruise not to mention all the WOW sails.

 

The same couple booked Serenade, Quebec City to Ft L when 1st available while on a cruise I was able to book a same category cabin through a discount TA 11 months out $800.00pp less then they booked it for. The cruise now shows as full.

They will likely cancel before final payment and book with a discount TA.

 

I believe Royal will shortly be faced with massive booking problems as I have spoken to many cruisers who hold deposits on 10 bookings or more with no real intent to sail. They intend to just move them to other cruises before final payment until they find a cruise they want.

 

I believe the way the lines are modifying the pooling of gratuities is to keep staff happy if the ships do start to sail with an increase in empty cabins.

 

It's highly unlikely that your discount TA got you a discounted price, since TAs are prohibited from offering cruises at a lower rate than is advertised to the public. What is more likely is that the TA has a block of cabins that were booked at a low price point and you got one of those cabins - your friend had bad timing. And why would your friends wait until final payment to cancel? They could inquire about pricing now and lock in the lower price, if there is one. We are booked on the same cruise - we booked the day it opened, the price on our cabin went up for a couple of weeks to over $1000pp more than we paid and then sold out.

 

Gratuities are based on how many people are onboard, so I don't think the staff will ever be happy if there are empty cabins, since that would make the pool smaller (and I haven't heard that RCI have started pooling tips, other than for the MTD dining room).

 

RCI have also started offering upsells to people, which seems like a last minute discount going by another name. If the JS aren't selling at $1500pp, they'll offer them to people booked in D-1's for a few hundred over what they paid. Then presumably they will go on down the categories offering upsells until they are sailing with empty insides, if that.

Edited May 11, 2015 by critterchick

[John&LaLa]

 

RCI have also started offering upsells to people, which seems like a last minute discount going by another name. If the JS aren't selling at $1500pp, they'll offer them to people booked in D-1's for a few hundred over what they paid. Then presumably they will go on down the categories offering upsells until they are sailing with empty insides, if that.

 

I for one am still searching for this elusive upsell program.

 

We sail June 21 on Freedom in a nice hump D2. The JS price is now $3,250, but they want $2,300 to upgrade me since I booked this voyage with Visa points and $1,016 cash. This new price makes my 125,000 visa points worth less than zero. :what::mad:

 

Oh well, still 41 days to go

Edited May 11, 2015 by John&LaLa

[celebrity]

Well a new ship is going to have high prices. Even Oasis and Allure tend to have overall higher prices than Freedom class or Vision class ships do. They're not brand new anymore yet still fetch higher prices.

 

I understand that newer ships command higher prices but let's face it, 5k more for a family of 5 to sail an additional 2 days on a new ship vs a 3 year old ship is insane.

They can take 2 cruises on NCL (14 days) and still pocket over $2k.

Which would you choose?

Edited May 11, 2015 by celebrity

[A2Mich]

I understand that newer ships command higher prices but let's face it, 5k more for a family of 5 to sail an additional 2 days on a new ship vs a 3 year old ship is insane.

They can take 2 cruises on NCL (14 days) and still pocket over $2k.

Which would you choose?

 

 

I understand your point, but bottom line is that if Royal can fill those sailings at those rates, they may very well continue to do so. I also think that pricing is sky high, but it would seem that people are indeed paying it, and there are those that will pay whatever price is asked to be on a new ship. I'm also one of those that won't. I won't even pay Oasis/allure pricing as of yet. I can't attest to NCL, as they appear to be on a discounting rampage for the last few months, and also appear to have a large number of upswell opportunities on board, though I don't know if there are more or less than RCI's new ships.

 

If booking numbers begin to suffer, the prices may very well drop a bit, but even from just reading the boards here, there seem to be plenty of people wanting to sail their new ships before they're shipped off to Asia.

[Buccaneergirl]

I understand that newer ships command higher prices but let's face it, 5k more for a family of 5 to sail an additional 2 days on a new ship vs a 3 year old ship is insane.

They can take 2 cruises on NCL (14 days) and still pocket over $2k.

Which would you choose?

 

RC newer ships have high prices, but I booked NCL Escape which will only be a few weeks old and got an outstanding price! 7 nights, balcony for $749!!!

I could not pass that up and the drink package for dh and I both is included.

It will be my first NCL cruise and maybe not my last.

[John&LaLa]

RC newer ships have high prices, but I booked NCL Escape which will only be a few weeks old and got an outstanding price! 7 nights, balcony for $749!!!

I could not pass that up and the drink package for dh and I both is included.

It will be my first NCL cruise and maybe not my last.

 

What's the time frame

[Goodtime Cruizin]

15 US Code 13 Discrimination in Pricing, Services, or Facilities. It is perfectly legal to raise prices to encourage, for instance, big spenders; it is illegal to raise prices "purposely" to discriminate by exclusion against certain individuals or groups, i.e. I don't want to offer services to people from "the poor side of town" so I'll price them out and they can go somewhere else.

 

You trolling?

 

Dinner... McDonalds Big Mac vs Ruth Chris Steak House, both will fill you belly.

Auto... Kia vs Ferrari, both will get you from Point A to Point B

Office space Detroit vs Upper Manhattan, each will offer four walls and a door.

 

It goes one & on & on & on... please tell us you're trolling.

[karl_nj]

Correcting spelling violates forum guidelines.

 

And your post also violates forum guidelines...

 

Also disrupting to the Community is Thread hijacking which is the act of trying to steer a web forum discussion thread off topic by discussing a subject entirely unrelated to the original topic. This would also include making references to the original poster, or even to OTHER posters, that have nothing to do with the subject at hand.

[Buccaneergirl]

What's the time frame

 

Nov. 28, 2015

[Maraprince]

I understand your point, but bottom line is that if Royal can fill those sailings at those rates, they may very well continue to do so. I also think that pricing is sky high, but it would seem that people are indeed paying it, and there are those that will pay whatever price is asked to be on a new ship. I'm also one of those that won't. I won't even pay Oasis/allure pricing as of yet. I can't attest to NCL, as they appear to be on a discounting rampage for the last few months, and also appear to have a large number of upswell opportunities on board, though I don't know if there are more or less than RCI's new ships.

 

If booking numbers begin to suffer, the prices may very well drop a bit, but even from just reading the boards here, there seem to be plenty of people wanting to sail their new ships before they're shipped off to Asia.

 

Supposedly there is a "chart" (for lack of a better word) developed by the cruise line regarding the number of bookings for each cabin category that need to be reached by certain dates. If these numbers are far below the "norms", you may sale promos for certain categories. If cabins are selling well at the current price levels (even for a new ship), prices will rise. Some times this results in outside cabins being priced higher than balconies. There will always be a certain number of passengers who want to be the "first" to sail on a new ship and will pay any price to do so.

 

MARAPRINCE

[A2Mich]

Supposedly there is a "chart" (for lack of a better word) developed by the cruise line regarding the number of bookings for each cabin category that need to be reached by certain dates. If these numbers are far below the "norms", you may sale promos for certain categories. If cabins are selling well at the current price levels (even for a new ship), prices will rise. Some times this results in outside cabins being priced higher than balconies. There will always be a certain number of passengers who want to be the "first" to sail on a new ship and will pay any price to do so.

 

 

 

MARAPRINCE

 

 

That sounds about right. However, given the statement that they will not be discounting to sell unsold cabins, they may have to reconsider their booking models, as they have to fill cabins. The statement about not cutting prices is more than likely just to prove a point, but the reality is that empty cabins make NO money and have no opportunity to make money. At least discounted passengers in a cabin are bringing in SOME revenue and also have the opportunity to generate more revenue with onboard spending.

[insidecabin]

There are ways round the public discounts for cruise lines just make them "secret" through selected outlets. Interline and CAS are two obvious ones.

 

One uk agent has been promoting £100 off in addition to the current choice offers which still include UBP.

 

Selected discounts and promotions will still happen just might not see them on NCL and regular web sites.

 

Celebrity has some UK promotions that agent can't put on the web.

 

UK agents can do costa cruise with air cheaper than the published rate cruise only

 

The power of social media could be sharing the deals but not easy on those sites that restrict sharing information like that.

 

Mind you the more that pay these inflated rates the more room a line has to fill the empties.

[celebrity]

Credit card in hand, I was ready to book a 5 day to Bermuda on Freedom for Sept until I discovered it would be $400 per nite for a standard balcony cabin for two when I factored in trip insurance.

Too rich for my blood.

[SherriZ366]

Credit card in hand, I was ready to book a 5 day to Bermuda on Freedom for Sept until I discovered it would be $400 per nite for a standard balcony cabin for two when I factored in trip insurance.

Too rich for my blood.

Don't you mean Liberty -- FR is sailing out of Port Canaveral until 11-4-2016 and then she sails out of Port Everglades -- both itineraries are Caribbean

[celebrity]

Don't you mean Liberty -- FR is sailing out of Port Canaveral until 11-4-2016 and then she sails out of Port Everglades -- both itineraries are Caribbean

 

Sorry, yes, Liberty.

[John&LaLa]

JS on Freedom for June 21 is $3,300 on GGG sale. Was $1,000 more last week. Also, the solo rate is $2,300

 

This does include D+ discount, but so did previous price

Edited May 14, 2015 by John&LaLa

[Maraprince]

Credit card in hand, I was ready to book a 5 day to Bermuda on Freedom for Sept until I discovered it would be $400 per nite for a standard balcony cabin for two when I factored in trip insurance.

Too rich for my blood.

 

If the rates are substantially higher than their competitors for the same type of cabin, destination, number of days....RCCL will not achieve the results they want. It will backfire on them and drive passengers to other cruise lines who will lower prices.

 

I know at one point balcony cabins on Explorer (which an older ship) rose to over $3,000+ before it started to drop back down. You had to scratch your head and wonder why price an older ship at the same price level of a new ship with loads more activities, etc.?

 

Another point that has always made me wonder, RCCL's normal amount of ports is 4 even on a 9, 10, 11 day sailing. Yet, Princess is able to reach 5 ports in 7 days! RCCL tends to have more sea days than other lines for the same amount of days. Fewer ports = more sea days. You would think prices would be less.

 

MARAPRINCE

[John&LaLa]

If the rates are substantially higher than their competitors for the same type of cabin, destination, number of days....RCCL will not achieve the results they want. It will backfire on them and drive passengers to other cruise lines who will lower prices.

 

I know at one point balcony cabins on Explorer (which an older ship) rose to over $3,000+ before it started to drop back down. You had to scratch your head and wonder why price an older ship at the same price level of a new ship with loads more activities, etc.?

 

Another point that has always made me wonder, RCCL's normal amount of ports is 4 even on a 9, 10, 11 day sailing. Yet, Princess is able to reach 5 ports in 7 days! RCCL tends to have more sea days than other lines for the same amount of days. Fewer ports = more sea days. You would think prices would be less.

 

MARAPRINCE

 

Not following your logic on port days costing more to the cruise line. I would think the opposite is true. More power needed means more fuel, more bodies on ship means more food and more staff hours to serve them.

 

Now I'm sure this may be offset by more revenue opportunities, but I'm not sure that is where you were headed

[GottaKnowWhen]

...wonder why price an older ship at the same price level of a new ship with loads more activities, etc.?

Another point that has always made me wonder, RCCL's normal amount of ports is 4 even on a 9, 10, 11 day sailing. Yet, Princess is able to reach 5 ports in 7 days! RCCL tends to have more sea days than other lines for the same amount of days. Fewer ports = more sea days. You would think prices would be less.

 

MARAPRINCE

Different strokes, different folks. I would pay more for an older (smaller) ship in order to avoid some of the frenetic activity, noise, hustle bustle of the newer ships. I would pay more for a cruise with a 4-of-7 days in port rather than 5-in-7 or 6-in-7; I enjoy the sea days and don't want to be cheated of those by back-to-back-to-back-to-back port calls.

[American Bear]

Not following your logic on port days costing more to the cruise line. I would think the opposite is true. More power needed means more fuel, more bodies on ship means more food and more staff hours to serve them.

 

Now I'm sure this may be offset by more revenue opportunities, but I'm not sure that is where you were headed

 

 

 

Agreed, not sure either:confused:, but I would think a captured crowd giving all that day's spending to RCL is more profitable then going to some port and giving them a large check for docking, and then having most all that money walking off the ship.

[American Bear]

Another point that has always made me wonder, RCCL's normal amount of ports is 4 even on a 9, 10, 11 day sailing. Yet, Princess is able to reach 5 ports in 7 days! RCCL tends to have more sea days than other lines for the same amount of days. Fewer ports = more sea days. You would think prices would be less.

 

MARAPRINCE

 

RCL for the most part has become a 'ship destination' cruise line while the competition offers 'port destination' cruises.

Of course there are exceptions, the Freedom, and Independence offer 4 port days in the western Caribbean like the competition, and this fall the Vision will offer a 4 port, 7 day western Caribbean cruise out of Tampa.

Of course these RCL western Caribbean cruises offer either Belize, or Falmouth, (2 disgusting stops in our opinion) so for us its still like a 3 port cruise.:eek:

Carnival has built their own ports (similar to Labadee) to give you the impression of a port day on some of their cruises, but you're spending your money mostly in their port.:eek:

Happy cruising.:)

[Cruisin-Family]

We are a Diamond level RCCL cruising family, but we are no longer "loyal to Royal" due to their pricing and customer loyalty policies. I understand that they have H U G E capital expenditures as they build large, beautiful and ultra modern ships and they need to recover the cost. I'm sure their customer loyalty financial analysts crunch the numbers and their results show that loyalty really doesn't matter to their bottom line...and that RCCL's financial future health is on the return on investment into expensive mass marketing/advertising campaigns over a loyal customer base. That this is just business, but my family's vacation business has gone to other companies as a result of their policies - particularly beginning around 2011 when RCCL seemingly made a choice to reduce their incentives and loyalty rewards.

[Maraprince]

Not following your logic on port days costing more to the cruise line. I would think the opposite is true. More power needed means more fuel, more bodies on ship means more food and more staff hours to serve them.

 

Now I'm sure this may be offset by more revenue opportunities, but I'm not sure that is where you were headed

 

In some tender ports, private tenders hired and are used instead of the life boats. Also, with the shops and casino being closed while in port, the ship takes in less revenue. Passengers eat and drink ashore instead of on board.

 

More sea days mean you will have more time to shop, drink and spend money on board, play Bingo, get a beauty treatment, etc. Port taxes are lower. Traveling speed is reduced since for about 1 day, the ship just circles in the same area going nowhere. Lower speed consumes less fuel.

 

 

MARAPRINCE

[3dog]

In some tender ports, private tenders hired and are used instead of the life boats. Also, with the shops and casino being closed while in port, the ship takes in less revenue. Passengers eat and drink ashore instead of on board.

 

True. While in port, the ship receives less revenue, and has some amount of additional port fees (which, BTW, they passed on to you in the "taxes and port fees" part of the cruise fare). But it also has less expenses as stated by John&LALA, like consumed fuel and food, and providing staff days off.

 

More sea days mean you will have more time to shop, drink and spend money on board, play Bingo, get a beauty treatment, etc. Port taxes are lower. Traveling speed is reduced since for about 1 day, the ship just circles in the same area going nowhere. Lower speed consumes less fuel.

 

Lower speed does consume less fuel, but the speed is determined by how far the ship needs to travel in what time frame, including any ability to make port at top speed. Port taxes are passed to the consumer (and refunded if they are actually lower on a particular cruise). Some people still use the spa, as they do offer discounted prices on port days, as well as they stay onboard and buy drinks (though you are correct, no casino or shops - but I'm not sure what kind of difference this will actually make in revenue vs. expenses).

 

 

But that said, without any real data as to costs/revenues per passenger on sea days vs. port days there isn't much of a point here.

[Thetrail]

Hi Whitecap in my experience RCCL cruisers are nothing like this person.

 

And he is probably a poser anyway-if you have real jack you are on Crystal or Regent, right?

 

The rich arrogant people I deal with I am ok with because they have legit bank. The deluded arrogant "upper middle class guy" in a mountain of debt annoys me to extremes.

 

He will put down a fellow who works as a tow truck driver who saves for eons to do something special never being smart enough to realize his entire financial well-being is dependent on a three digit score arbitrarily calculated by people he will never meet. He needs to be cool to that tow truck driver because they are closer in need and class than he realizes, but the ego simply won't allow it.

 

Enjoy your cruise and welcome to the RCCL cruiser family.

You are without a doubt not a part of any "RCCL cruiser family" that I know or care to know......:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: