Cracking down on Crime in Seattle before cruise season

[chewap]

The city of Seattle is trying to clean up crime in downtown Seattle that makes it No 1 in the nation for crime. The city is trying to do this before the cruise season that begins next week. Downtown Seattle will still be a dangerous area. 10,000 crimes last year in the 8 block area.

 

 

 

http://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/crime/seattle-tackles-drug-dealing-disorder-in-downtown-core/

[Husky61]

The city of Seattle is trying to clean up crime in downtown Seattle that makes it No 1 in the nation for crime. The city is trying to do this before the cruise season that begins next week. Downtown Seattle will still be a dangerous area. 10,000 crimes last year in the 8 block area.

 

 

 

http://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/crime/seattle-tackles-drug-dealing-disorder-in-downtown-core/

 

The article states that it was 10,000 calls for service, not 10,000 crimes.:)

[teacherman]

This sounds really BAD. I guess when we are there in July we will just stay in our room and wait for a taxi to take us to the ship. Or, since we are from Detroit, we may just take a stroll and see the sites. Thanks for the heads up.

[bunnyrab]

If drugs are now legal in Seattle why go to a drug dealer? Arn't there legal places to buy drugs? Also how safe is the Westlake station if taking the light rail train from Seatac? Want to get some wine a Ralph's before taking a taxi to Pier 91. Any better suggestions for getting wine. Arriving same day as sailing. Thanks.

[kenish]

The city of Seattle is trying to clean up crime in downtown Seattle that makes it No 1 in the nation for crime.

 

#1 for crime? That piqued my curiosity and I looked at various US crime rankings and stats. Seattle's crime rate ranks a little higher than average for large cities (>500k population) and average for cities >20k.

 

Violent crime is lower than the US average; theft is higher. In the downtown area, most of the "crimes" are narcotics/alcohol related. Filter those out and the downtown crime rate really drops and is unremarkable compared to downtown of any major city.

 

Of course thefts, shoplifting, disorderly, etc. are higher when drugs and alcohol are around. And there's certainly a big nuisance factor as the article comments and it's not a pleasant environment for anyone. But I saw nothing showing Seattle or downtown being any more "dangerous" for tourists than any other city. No, I don't live in SEA or work for their CoC :)

Edited April 23, 2015 by kenish

[Casagordita]

If drugs are now legal in Seattle why go to a drug dealer? Arn't there legal places to buy drugs? Also how safe is the Westlake station if taking the light rail train from Seatac? Want to get some wine a Ralph's before taking a taxi to Pier 91. Any better suggestions for getting wine. Arriving same day as sailing. Thanks.

 

Marijuana is legal is Washington, in limited amounts, if you're over 21. There are some fairly stiff taxes on it, however, which has led some people continue buying it from their friendly neighborhood dealer. Other drugs that have been illegal continue to be so, and are only available from the usual illegal sources.

 

Westlake Center (including the light rail station), like any part of big city, is not safe. It's mostly safe--tens of thousands of people pass through it every day without incident--but for a very few, stuff happens. Likewise, thousands upon thousands of people walk around all over downtown Seattle without becoming crime victims--but again, it's a big city, and crime does happen. The only way to be absolutely sure it doesn't happen to you is to stay home (and fortify that home like Fort Knox, and don't get on the Internet...:eek:).

 

Or, you can go out in the world and take reasonable precautions. Keep your valuables (iPhones, wallets, cameras, etc.) out of sight--don't flash them around unnecessarily. Keep a good grip on items that might be a target for theft. Pay attention to your surroundings--if something doesn't feel right or someone is creeping you out, trust your gut and get out of there (and don't worry about it not being polite!!) If in doubt, and you can afford it, take a taxi. Don't wander around at night if you can help it, or in otherwise-deserted areas. Walk like you have somewhere to go--don't be that stereotype tourist, standing in the middle of a busy sidewalk, map open, purse open, busily texting Cousin Joe, oblivious to the fact that you might as well be holding up a sign that says "I'm not paying attention! Easy target here!!"

 

Life is a risk. Downtown Seattle isn't more of a risk than most anyplace that draws a lot of tourists. Just use a little good judgement and common sense and you can minimize that risk, but there are never any guarantees, here or anywhere.

[CruiserBruce]

Wow- did this get distorted!!! 10000 crimes? Drugs are legal?? (I believe marijuana is, not crack, heroin, meth, etc) Worst crime rate in the US?

[Dan G]

the poster is a little off in his facts. Downtown Seattle has a lot of homeless and panhandling but hardly a crime prone area. Anyone with a little street sense would not be deterred. Most people think its a cleaner safer cities than what they expected. If a street person is going to traumatize you then yes perhaps just lock yourself in your hotel room but you will miss what makes us the fastest growning city in the US.

[VibeGuy]

Crime in the downtown core does not target tourists - this isn't Falmouth, Nassau or Tijuana. What's going down at 3rd and Pine has been a long time coming, and it's not being done for cruise season - it's being done because of the endless complaints that have been going unheard for years. A huge % of the calls for service also revolve around the major transit stop on 3rd between Pine and Stewart - operators know there's a police presence nearby so they get fast service.

 

I'm a transit user. I walk through that area at all hours of the day and night. It's no worse than any comparable block in any urban downtown core in any city in the US, and it's better than the vast majority of them.

 

I'll be the first to tell you that, no matter how much I love an Egg McMuffin and how much time I might have in the morning, I don't go in the McDonalds at 3rd and Pine anymore, because I'm tired of the drama caused by drunks, tweekers and the ecosystem that makes sure they're provided with the products they seek. But it doesn't stop me from walking through the area like I know where in the hell I'm going and that I'm not interested in the products on offer. It's not even like it's a bad street - it's literally a somewhat sketchy *side* of one block of one street. Walk on the Macy's side of the block and you might not even notice the sketchiness. Anyone with half a brain about them is going to be able to recognize who they shouldn't interact with around Westlake Park (not Center, which has a pretty heavy private security and transit security presence).

 

Seattle honestly doesn't have a mugging problem. They have a sleeping in doorways problem, a dealing-dime-bags problem, an aggressive/annoying panhandling problem and a subculture-of-people-at-their-wits-end-who-don't-engage-with-each-other-appropriately-and-someone-pulls-a-knife problem.

 

I'm super-happy about the focus on this small zone - not to put too fine a point on it, but the undesirable elements have been running the show for too long, and that's driving away people who help make downtown vibrant and economically successful.

[VibeGuy]

And about the legal weed:

 

Early license holders tried to make a fortune as first movers and found that people weren't willing to pay prices over those of the black market. The state also imposes 20% taxes at two points in the process (grower to retailer and retailer to consumer). To buy from legal dealers, you must show ID as well, regardless of age, which some purchasers balk about. Finally, there are a very limited number of stores in Seattle itself. There are probably 50x more Thai restaurants than legal weed stores for recreational users.

 

What surprised everyone, though, is that when you grow it outdoors in full sun in some of the most fertile land in the state, crop yields are 5X higher than expected. Which has driven taxed prices from 3X the black market price at launch to, surprisingly, half what I was paying 25 years ago in high school.

 

So it's no longer accurate that price is driving demand in the black market. It's just that these established entrepreneurs have location, low overhead and more aggressive marketing on their side. Further, many have more diverse product offerings than just weed.

 

If the problems in this corridor were just aggressive weed marketers, we wouldn't be having this discussion.

[xlxo]

• http://web6.seattle.gov/mnm/incidentresponse.aspx
  
• http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/f/f6/Inner_Circle_-_Bad_Boys.ogg
  

[Casagordita]

Crime in the downtown core does not target tourists - this isn't Falmouth, Nassau or Tijuana. What's going down at 3rd and Pine has been a long time coming, and it's not being done for cruise season - it's being done because of the endless complaints that have been going unheard for years. A huge % of the calls for service also revolve around the major transit stop on 3rd between Pine and Stewart - operators know there's a police presence nearby so they get fast service.

 

I'm a transit user. I walk through that area at all hours of the day and night. It's no worse than any comparable block in any urban downtown core in any city in the US, and it's better than the vast majority of them.

 

To be fair, VibeGuy, you're male, and you've mentioned a mohawk, I think--and I'm betting you walk around downtown like you belong there, because you do. You're not female, and not elderly, and probably not usually carrying luggage or a camera or shopping bags, or looking like you're not sure where you're going.

 

Stuff does happen to tourists once in a while around downtown--or stuff happens to people who could have been tourists. There was a man posting recently on Reddit about having his iPhone snatched from his hands in Westlake Park. Then there's the notorious case from last year, where a crazy street person got into a scuffle with some protestors (Westlake Park is a popular place for political demonstrations). A private security guard came running up and pepper-sprayed...a random passer-by who had nothing to do with any of it!

 

In other words...Seattle is a big city. It has the problems and random occurrences that any big city has. Much of the crime happens between people who are already vulnerable, or sketchy--homeless, inebriated, or doing illegal things themselves. But nobody can guarantee that, even if you're careful and follow all the rules, something won't happen to you. Of course, nobody can guarantee that if you stay home, either.

 

So you might as well come here and have fun while you live with the inevitable risks of life!

Edited April 24, 2015 by Casagordita

[VibeGuy]

I admit that I don't often look like a victim. I'm not wandering around aimlessly - I know my route before I hit street level and I don't exactly give off a "mug me" vibe. On the flip side, I always have at least an obviously-nice messenger bag (it was an indulgence, but it smells so good and it's so soft and it comfortably holds expensive electronics and small arms with equal elán), I've got my phone in hand, and I am visibly both fat and homosexual, so, hey, maybe I'm an easy mark. I also have at least a rollaboard once a month or so. As for shopping bags, I cannot help that I often change buses right by Nordstrom Rack and I like a bargain.

 

I'm not an elderly female, this is true. But your point about who is usually involved in attacks downtown is spot on. The vast majority of the time, it isn't random marks - it's participants in the unsavory milieu that has been allowed to get worse and worse over the almost 25 years I've been visiting downtown Seattle. While there are no guarantees, I just don't perceive the problem as one that is likely to affect visitors. Unlike the genuine hellholes above, tourists are not at an especially elevated risk in Seattle.

[CruisinMama7]

What's going down at 3rd and Pine has been a long time coming, and it's not being done for cruise season - it's being done because of the endless complaints that have been going unheard for years. A huge % of the calls for service also revolve around the major transit stop on 3rd between Pine and Stewart - operators know there's a police presence nearby so they get fast service.

 

I'm cruising out of Seattle this summer and staying at the Inn at The Market, which is located on Pine Street right across from the Public Market. Being unfamiliar with the downtown Seattle street layout, is my hotel located close to this area you mentioned above? Of course, I would never change my plans...just want to know if I should be extra careful? We planned on walking the waterfront and checking out the Public Market. Should this only be done during daytime hours? I'm assuming the waterfront is safe since they're rebuilding it, correct?

 

Thanks for any info, VibeGuy! I really do appreciate it.

[CruisinMama7]

Oops! Double post...sorry!

Edited April 24, 2015 by Cruisin'Mama7
Double post...oops!

[ubarpants]

If drugs are now legal in Seattle why go to a drug dealer? Arn't there legal places to buy drugs? Also how safe is the Westlake station if taking the light rail train from Seatac? Want to get some wine a Ralph's before taking a taxi to Pier 91. Any better suggestions for getting wine. Arriving same day as sailing. Thanks.

 

I get lunch at Ralph's fairly often and haven't ever felt unsafe. It's a few blocks north of the problem area discussed in the article.

 

Honestly, as VibeGuy said, the worst area is right at 3rd and Pine, and they're cracking down hard on that intersection. Of course, that means that some of the problems will just move to another part of the city. As it stands now, if you need to travel between Union and Stewart, try not to stick to 3rd Ave the entire way. 2nd or 4th will probably feel a little safer.

[NewEnglandNANA]

"I just don't perceive the problem as one that is likely to affect visitors. Unlike the genuine hellholes above, tourists are not at an especially elevated risk in Seattle. "

Quoted from Vibe Guy

Thank you Vibe Guy.

I started reading this getting a little concerned. But your sentence here as alleviated it a little bit.

 

I can't imagine crime wise Seattle is any different than Boston MA or Portland ME two cities we often visit. Maybe that is naïve of me.

 

I have read about the section in Seattle we are staying in(Belltown) being revitalized and also a bit sketchy. Taking everything into consideration.

 

Casagordita also gave some great advice.

Edited April 24, 2015 by NewEnglandNANA

[zephyr17]

I'm cruising out of Seattle this summer and staying at the Inn at The Market' date=' which is located on Pine Street right across from the Public Market. Being unfamiliar with the downtown Seattle street layout, is my hotel located close to this area you mentioned above? Of course, I would never change my plans...just want to know if I should be extra careful? We planned on walking the waterfront and checking out the Public Market. Should this only be done during daytime hours? I'm assuming the waterfront is safe since they're rebuilding it, correct?

 

Thanks for any info, VibeGuy! I really do appreciate it.[/quote']

Yes, it is close, about a block away.

 

With that said, VibeGuy has very accurately captured the situation down at 3rd & Pike and 3rd & Pine. You don't have anything to worry about, at least at reasonable hours, I don't know what is like at 3am and would not want to find out. At 8 or 9 pm it is ok. And, as he said, just walk on the Macy's side (north) of Pine if you want to walk up to Westlake Center and don't want to play slalom with panhandlers. The other way, the waterfront, is fine (actually both ways are fine, but the waterfront isn't as "colorful"). Bear in mind that the waterfront is like 5 stories below the level of the Market and your hotel (which are on a bluff). There is an elevator accessible through the Market and the Pike Street Hillclimb (stairs).

 

I also agree about staying out of that McDonalds. It's ambience is kind of ripe.

Edited April 24, 2015 by zephyr17

[VibeGuy]

I'm cruising out of Seattle this summer and staying at the Inn at The Market' date=' which is located on Pine Street right across from the Public Market. Being unfamiliar with the downtown Seattle street layout, is my hotel located close to this area you mentioned above? Of course, I would never change my plans...just want to know if I should be extra careful? We planned on walking the waterfront and checking out the Public Market. Should this only be done during daytime hours? I'm assuming the waterfront is safe since they're rebuilding it, correct?[/quote']

 

The Inn at the Market is super-lovely, and happens to be three blocks west from the corner in question. You will love it. The restaurant downstairs (Cafe Campagne) is great, too.

 

One thing to consider: our days are really long in the summer - it's effectively light out from 4:30 to 9:30 through most of the cruise season. Which makes everything different than December when it seems like the sun sets at 2:30 and the city feels a lot more foreboding. As they say, sunlight is the best disinfectant.

 

With that out of the way: the Market itself is never an issue during operating hours. Despite being three blocks from the sketchy corner, it is a safe and family-friendly area. Many people with nothing better to do *do* gather at the public park at the north end of the Market just across Western Avenue, but special effort is made to keep that park visitor-friendly. There are various restaurants, bars and a theatre that are open late, and I wouldn't hesitate to visit any of them and walk back to fhe hotel.

 

The waterfront itself gets recreational and business use late into the night and starts up early in the morning. I regularly catch a 00:55 or 02:10 ferry from the dock at the foot of Marion street. Being really brutally honest, there are a lot of homeless people underneath the elevated highway in the two block wide zone between 1st Street and the waterfront, running about 12 blocks. I use an elevated walkway between 1st and the terminal, both so I don't walk through those blocks at street level in the middle of the night alone and so I save some needless change of grade. Four or five hours later, it's busy enough that I don't hesitate. So two points - if you want to stroll the waterfront after Midnight, stay north of Pike Street, and use the elevator from the market to get down to the water. After 6 am, visit with abandon. Do watch for construction and uneven road surfaces.

 

As Casagordita pointed out, I sort of give off an "eff ewe" vibe as an Urban Defense Strategy. I routinely jaywalk to avoid lingering on corners in the middle of the night. I can say "No." to unsavory people trying to engage with me with a surprisingly amount of conviction. I take an UberX or Lyft if I've got a lot of stuff with me. I'm a little nocturnal, especially when beverages have been had, so I see more of the BS going on. I'm absolutely sure that my grandmother would no sooner walk from Nordstrom to your hotel at 0130 than fly to the moon, though. It's really about a personal risk calculation. But in general, I feel a lot safer at midnight in the allegedly sketchy parts of Downtown Seattle than I do at midnight in Downtown LA or Manhattan.

[VibeGuy]

I can't imagine crime wise Seattle is any different than Boston MA or Portland ME two cities we often visit. Maybe that is naïve of me.

 

I have read about the section in Seattle we are staying in(Belltown) being revitalized and also a bit sketchy. Taking everything into consideration.

 

Casagordita also gave some great advice.

 

Seattle is less mugging-oriented and more petty crime/aggressive panhandling/drunks acting up. Well, I suppose Boston has its share of the latter.

 

Belltown does have a homeless issue - the built environment has a lot of alleyways and recesses that attract urban campers. But Belltown's bigger problems are drunk bros and "woo girls" from the suburbs who come in on weekend nights and act up in nightclubs, then leave the nightclubs and continue to act up. I believe back East they're referred to as the "bridge and tunnel crowd". Belltown has gotten so much better during the daytime over the last 25 years, but the douchebag factor at night is sky-high. Avoid the nightclubs.

[NewEnglandNANA]

Seattle is less mugging-oriented and more petty crime/aggressive panhandling/drunks acting up. Well, I suppose Boston has its share of the latter.

 

Belltown does have a homeless issue - the built environment has a lot of alleyways and recesses that attract urban campers. But Belltown's bigger problems are drunk bros and "woo girls" from the suburbs who come in on weekend nights and act up in nightclubs, then leave the nightclubs and continue to act up. I believe back East they're referred to as the "bridge and tunnel crowd". Belltown has gotten so much better during the daytime over the last 25 years, but the douchebag factor at night is sky-high. Avoid the nightclubs.

 

Homeless issue is sad and yes we see that here. Of course where I live they hide in the woods and call it camping. And in almost every city we have the panhandlers with signs asking for $ on nearly every corner.

Yes we will try and avoid the Douchebag factor. Although I did want to take my husband to the Bathtub Gin place or a Whiskey bar. But we are older and probably wouldn't be out when the younger crowd come out to party.

Thanks for all your help:)

[Casagordita]

I can say "No." to unsavory people trying to engage with me with a surprisingly amount of conviction.

 

There's one key right there: Just say NO--or simply walk away. Most of us (women especially) are raised to be nice. We're so thoroughly programmed to be polite, and respond "appropriately," and not do anything that could cause social awkwardness, that even when we're dealing with someone who is breaking ALL of those rules, we think we still have to follow them. And some of those people will count on that and use it to manipulate us.

 

You DO NOT have to respond to strangers who accost you on the street, if you don't want to. Panhandlers, people shoving flyers at you, people selling stuff, guys who'll catcall any female under age 90, weird random crazy people who decide to rant in your direction...YOU DON'T OWE THEM ANYTHING. You really can walk on, and ignore them. That's a crucial urban survival strategy--don't engage with people unless you want to be drawn in further. Your sweet old grandma might think that's not being very nice, but these people are not being very nice by bothering you without an invitation, so grandma's rules don't apply here.

 

At most, I give a quick, firm "Sorry, no" to panhandlers, and look away, and keep walking. Most of them will look for an easier target. They're almost all harmless, but some can be persistent. Panhandlers and flyer-pushers are what you're most likely to see, but there are all kinds of people all out there who want your attention (and probably more). You are under NO obligation to give them any of it.

[VibeGuy]

For a whiskey bar, go to Whisky Bar, Tavern Law, Old Sage, Radiator, Canon or Liberty. They are all awesome places to drink and a cheap UberX ride from anywhere in downtown. The Dbag and WooGirl problem will be eliminated. Of course, if you see a fat guy with an age-inappropriate haircut, you may have a VibeGuy problem.

[CruisinMama7]

I certainly appreciate hearing the "real deal" about the downtown situation and not a slicked-up version that a Chamber of Commerce marketing executive would dish out. Of course, "always be aware of your surroundings regardless of where you are" is sage advice, but it's nice to know that I'm not putting my life at risk by walking to dinner at dusk or later. Since we're leaving the next day for Alaska, we will go back fairly early to the hotel and spend midnight with a glass of wine enjoying our hotel roof top patio that overlooks the bay. :cool: Thanks again for all responses. It puts my mind at ease.

[Cruising_Tiger]

Hey Vibeguy, I appreciate your honest and fair assessment of the situation in Seattle. Can you provide some guidance for all of us coming into Seattle the day before a cruise? Do you have any suggestions for a hotel that would provide nearby restaurants and a place to buy some wine before a cruise? We are currently staying at the Renaissance Seattle on Madison. From Google Street view, everything looks nice but it looks like a few block walk to restaurants.

Edited April 25, 2015 by Cruising_Tiger