Just off the PRIDE, WARNING about aft cabin shaking

[manmtnmike]

Was the Pride one of the ships dealing with propulsion problems?

 

The aft end would be sublect to vibration if the sync is off.

 

 

Mike

[ShakyBeef]

Was the Pride one of the ships dealing with propulsion problems?

 

The aft end would be sublect to vibration if the sync is off.

 

 

Mike

 

Yes, she was/is. She's had propulsion issues for years, and just a couple weeks ago, it got so bad it affected a couple sailings' itineraries. Here are some threads discussing it:

 

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=2336829

 

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=2337699

 

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=2338287

[bhanback]

Just off the Pride today. Propulsion issues with one engine on the way down, a little shaky. No problems on the way back, it was fixed in Nassau. It wasn't THAT bad on the way down, just more than usual.

[chengkp75]

Just off the Pride today. Propulsion issues with one engine on the way down, a little shaky. No problems on the way back, it was fixed in Nassau. It wasn't THAT bad on the way down, just more than usual.

 

There will always be some increased vibration from an asymmetrical propulsion situation (like only having one pod turning).

 

In the first thread linked above (I hadn't seen that one before), someone stated that she was "limping in assisted by a tug", which isn't quite correct. All ships must have two steering arrangements, and if one is inoperable, then the USCG will require a tug escort when in restricted waters like the Chesapeake. Since the two azipods are the two steering methods, when one goes down, the tug escort is a requirement.

 

Because this was fixed essentially underway and in ports of call, it would appear to be of an electrical or control problem. Very likely there was an ABB tech rep in Freeport for the Empress and Jewel of the Seas drydocks, and he was called to fix the problem.

[jimbo5544]

Yes, she was/is. She's had propulsion issues for years, and just a couple weeks ago, it got so bad it affected a couple sailings' itineraries. Here are some threads discussing it:

 

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=2336829

 

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=2337699

 

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=2338287

 

 

Propulsion problems for years? Really? What exactly would you describe as "propulsion problems"?

Edited April 10, 2016 by jimbo5544

[ShakyBeef]

Propulsion problems for years? Really? What exactly would you describe as "propulsion problems"?

 

Haha, OK, you edited. I guess that "ovulation" was a typo. I couldn't figure out what the heck you meant by ovulation problems.:p

 

What I am referring to is the well-known, oft-discussed, ongoing issues that Pride has had for years but that no Carnival representative will comment about "on the record". You must have heard about it by now, Jimbo. Do I detect a tone in your questions, as if you are implying that I'm making this up?

 

The Pride has more shaking in the aft than any other ship in the fleet, even her sister ships, according to many, many reports. I have sailed her 6 times, 4 of those 6 times in the aft and I know what I experienced. I don't know "exactly" what the issue is. I don't come anywhere near knowing "exactly" what the issue is, and I won't guess. I am no engineer. I call it "propulsion issues" because that is what is has been widely called around here for years.

 

I have sailed on several other ships, two of those other ships also being out of Baltimore (and thus traveling through the Bay), and they didn't have anything like Pride's aft vibrations.

 

There have been various hearsay reports from Carnival crew members to CC members and others that the excessive vibration on Pride is due to one of the azipods being wonky, or something wrong with one engine, or something like that. I don't pretend to know an azipod from a thruster booster, so I refer to the mystery issue as others have: "propulsion issues".

Edited April 10, 2016 by ShakyBeef

[chengkp75]

Haha, OK, you edited. I guess that "ovulation" was a typo. I couldn't figure out what the heck you meant by ovulation problems.:p

 

What I am referring to is the well-known, oft-discussed, ongoing issues that Pride has had for years but that no Carnival representative will comment about "on the record". You must have heard about it by now, Jimbo. Do I detect a tone in your questions, as if you are implying that I'm making this up?

 

The Pride has more shaking in the aft than any other ship in the fleet, even her sister ships, according to many, many reports. I have sailed her 6 times, 4 of those 6 times in the aft and I know what I experienced. I don't know "exactly" what the issue is. I don't come anywhere near knowing "exactly" what the issue is, and I won't guess. I am no engineer. I call it "propulsion issues" because that is what is has been widely called around here for years.

 

I have sailed on several other ships, two of those other ships also being out of Baltimore (and thus traveling through the Bay), and they didn't have anything like Pride's aft vibrations.

 

There have been various hearsay reports from Carnival crew members to CC members and others that the excessive vibration on Pride is due to one of the azipods being wonky, or something wrong with one engine, or something like that. I don't pretend to know an azipod from a thruster booster, so I refer to the mystery issue as others have: "propulsion issues".

 

Well, I wouldn't call them propulsion issues. If there was enough vibration from one of the engines to be felt up in the passenger areas, that engine would have exploded years before. Similarly, if there was a "wonky" azipod, it would have been fixed by now, or would have torn the pod apart. I always find it amazing how much technical disinformation can be spread by crew, even when I'm standing right in the area.

 

I don't know what other ships you have sailed on out of Baltimore, but of the two I know (Pride and Grandeur), the Grandeur has a traditional raked stern, while the Pride has a modest "duck tail". I'm not sure of the renovation history of the Pride, to know how much, if any, weight has been added since newbuild, which could affect the trim (fore/aft difference in draft) of the ship and therefore the effect of the duck tail. Duck tails are generally added to reduce "dynamic squat", which is the ships tendency to "ride up its bow wave", putting the stern deeper in the water. However, the added flat area above the propellers tends to increase what I call the "cruise ship shimmy" or the "azipod wiggle", which is not so much a vibration as a horizontal shifting back and forth at the stern, which the pods then tend to overcompensate for by steering themselves to correct. This phenomenon became so pronounced on QM2 soon after launch, that she was refitted with a "skeg" or vertical keel section before the azipods to help directional stability.

 

Bottom bounce is also affected by the natural frequency of the hull, and the speed of the propeller blades in relation to that frequency. So, this can vary by ship, even when operating normally, or even on the same ship when loaded slightly differently. Normally, this can be dealt with by adjusting the speed, but Bay pilots like to keep things moving along, so they will keep the speed up as much as possible, plus the sooner the ship gets out of the Bay, the sooner they can switch to cheaper fuel.

[ShakyBeef]

Well, I wouldn't call them propulsion issues. If there was enough vibration from one of the engines to be felt up in the passenger areas, that engine would have exploded years before. Similarly, if there was a "wonky" azipod, it would have been fixed by now, or would have torn the pod apart. I always find it amazing how much technical disinformation can be spread by crew, even when I'm standing right in the area.

 

I don't know what other ships you have sailed on out of Baltimore, but of the two I know (Pride and Grandeur), the Grandeur has a traditional raked stern, while the Pride has a modest "duck tail". I'm not sure of the renovation history of the Pride, to know how much, if any, weight has been added since newbuild, which could affect the trim (fore/aft difference in draft) of the ship and therefore the effect of the duck tail. Duck tails are generally added to reduce "dynamic squat", which is the ships tendency to "ride up its bow wave", putting the stern deeper in the water. However, the added flat area above the propellers tends to increase what I call the "cruise ship shimmy" or the "azipod wiggle", which is not so much a vibration as a horizontal shifting back and forth at the stern, which the pods then tend to overcompensate for by steering themselves to correct. This phenomenon became so pronounced on QM2 soon after launch, that she was refitted with a "skeg" or vertical keel section before the azipods to help directional stability.

 

Bottom bounce is also affected by the natural frequency of the hull, and the speed of the propeller blades in relation to that frequency. So, this can vary by ship, even when operating normally, or even on the same ship when loaded slightly differently. Normally, this can be dealt with by adjusting the speed, but Bay pilots like to keep things moving along, so they will keep the speed up as much as possible, plus the sooner the ship gets out of the Bay, the sooner they can switch to cheaper fuel.

 

Thanks for the info, Chengkp75. I always enjoy reading your informative posts.:)

 

I've sailed Grandeur and the lovely, old Celebrity Mercury:) out of Baltimore. The excessive vibration in the aft of Pride is not just in the Bay, but all the time, even at Sea, sometimes worse than others. I'm sorry, I don't think I mentioned that. And I haven't sailed since Pride's 2.0 refurb, so all my personal anecdotal "evidence":p is from before that.

[jimbo5544]

Haha, OK, you edited. I guess that "ovulation" was a typo. I couldn't figure out what the heck you meant by ovulation problems.:p

 

What I am referring to is the well-known, oft-discussed, ongoing issues that Pride has had for years but that no Carnival representative will comment about "on the record". You must have heard about it by now, Jimbo. Do I detect a tone in your questions, as if you are implying that I'm making this up?

 

The Pride has more shaking in the aft than any other ship in the fleet, even her sister ships, according to many, many reports. I have sailed her 6 times, 4 of those 6 times in the aft and I know what I experienced. I don't know "exactly" what the issue is. I don't come anywhere near knowing "exactly" what the issue is, and I won't guess. I am no engineer. I call it "propulsion issues" because that is what is has been widely called around here for years.

 

I have sailed on several other ships, two of those other ships also being out of Baltimore (and thus traveling through the Bay), and they didn't have anything like Pride's aft vibrations.

 

There have been various hearsay reports from Carnival crew members to CC members and others that the excessive vibration on Pride is due to one of the azipods being wonky, or something wrong with one engine, or something like that. I don't pretend to know an azipod from a thruster booster, so I refer to the mystery issue as others have: "propulsion issues".

 

First off, I almost spit out a mouth of ice tea when I read my post and saw ovulation....maybe a new way for adding ships to the fleet... I was not implying you made it up, I know better than that. Still hope to cruise with you some day, I have still saved some pillow chocolates, I have been saving for you. Your ahead of me in number of cruises on her, but she is one of my favorite ships (I could make a reference to some of the art work pre-alteration I hear, and how that ties to my spelling slip up, but I won't.

 

All that said, while there is and has been a vibration (esp in the aft...I have sailed back there 2 out 3 times and will again in a VS for NYE), I don't consider that a propulsion (or ovulation) problem. She just had a major dry dock and if they felt that was true I am sure they would have corrected it. That was the basis for my reply of your post. Lastly...wonky?

[jimbo5544]

Well, I wouldn't call them propulsion issues. If there was enough vibration from one of the engines to be felt up in the passenger areas, that engine would have exploded years before. Similarly, if there was a "wonky" azipod, it would have been fixed by now, or would have torn the pod apart. I always find it amazing how much technical disinformation can be spread by crew, even when I'm standing right in the area.

 

 

 

I don't know what other ships you have sailed on out of Baltimore, but of the two I know (Pride and Grandeur), the Grandeur has a traditional raked stern, while the Pride has a modest "duck tail". I'm not sure of the renovation history of the Pride, to know how much, if any, weight has been added since newbuild, which could affect the trim (fore/aft difference in draft) of the ship and therefore the effect of the duck tail. Duck tails are generally added to reduce "dynamic squat", which is the ships tendency to "ride up its bow wave", putting the stern deeper in the water. However, the added flat area above the propellers tends to increase what I call the "cruise ship shimmy" or the "azipod wiggle", which is not so much a vibration as a horizontal shifting back and forth at the stern, which the pods then tend to overcompensate for by steering themselves to correct. This phenomenon became so pronounced on QM2 soon after launch, that she was refitted with a "skeg" or vertical keel section before the azipods to help directional stability.

 

 

 

Bottom bounce is also affected by the natural frequency of the hull, and the speed of the propeller blades in relation to that frequency. So, this can vary by ship, even when operating normally, or even on the same ship when loaded slightly differently. Normally, this can be dealt with by adjusting the speed, but Bay pilots like to keep things moving along, so they will keep the speed up as much as possible, plus the sooner the ship gets out of the Bay, the sooner they can switch to cheaper fuel.

 

 

You consistently amaze me with your knowledge, thanks for all of that.

[chengkp75]

Thanks for the info, Chengkp75. I always enjoy reading your informative posts.:)

 

I've sailed Grandeur and the lovely, old Celebrity Mercury:) out of Baltimore. The excessive vibration in the aft of Pride is not just in the Bay, but all the time, even at Sea, sometimes worse than others. I'm sorry, I don't think I mentioned that. And I haven't sailed since Pride's 2.0 refurb, so all my personal anecdotal "evidence":p is from before that.

 

The Mercury was a shafted propeller ship, so the hydrodynamics are vastly different from podded ships.

 

Vibrations can vary between ships in the same class, even ships that have not had major differences added. There are 12 tankers in one class in my company, and each one has a "critical" vibration at different propeller speeds in the same waters. Shipbuilding is still more art than science, and so each hull will have a slightly different natural frequency, and each propeller will have slightly different imperfections, that throughout 98% of the ship's operating speed range will not be noticeable.

[ShakyBeef]

First off, I almost spit out a mouth of ice tea when I read my post and saw ovulation....maybe a new way for adding ships to the fleet... I was not implying you made it up, I know better than that. Still hope to cruise with you some day, I have still saved some pillow chocolates, I have been saving for you. Your ahead of me in number of cruises on her, but she is one of my favorite ships (I could make a reference to some of the art work pre-alteration I hear, and how that ties to my spelling slip up, but I won't.

 

All that said, while there is and has been a vibration (esp in the aft...I have sailed back there 2 out 3 times and will again in a VS for NYE), I don't consider that a propulsion (or ovulation) problem. She just had a major dry dock and if they felt that was true I am sure they would have corrected it. That was the basis for my reply of your post. Lastly...wonky?

 

That was quite a typo!:p Thanks, but no need to hang on to the "mockolates" for me. I've still got some of those ancient ones on which I did my very important scientific study in the fridge. And I've moved last year and even bought a new fridge a few months ago - so I've moved those things twice without throwing them away - I don't know why I can't just throw them away.:eek::rolleyes: But cruising with you would be fun, I'm sure.:)

 

Do you agree with the general consensus that Pride's aft vibration is far worse than on other ships?

 

Wonky, yes. It's a very scientific, technical term, with a very precise and complicated meaning.:cool:

[chengkp75]

Wonky in marine engineering is about 3 steps above FUBAR.

[ShakyBeef]

Wonky in marine engineering is about 3 steps above FUBAR.

 

LOL. Seriously, LOL!:D:p

[jimbo5544]

That was quite a typo!:p Thanks, but no need to hang on to the "mockolates" for me. I've still got some of those ancient ones on which I did my very important scientific study in the fridge. And I've moved last year and even bought a new fridge a few months ago - so I've moved those things twice without throwing them away - I don't know why I can't just throw them away.:eek::rolleyes: But cruising with you would be fun, I'm sure.:)

 

Do you agree with the general consensus that Pride's aft vibration is far worse than on other ships?

 

Wonky, yes. It's a very scientific, technical term, with a very precise and complicated meaning.:cool:

 

 

I would agree it is more noticeable on the Pride, but a small price to pay for the VS on the 4th floor, and it kind of put me to sleep at night....ok, maybe the alcohol was a factor as well. My typos can get much worse, there was one when I was going for funky and what I typed was def not funky. Thankfully I caught that one before posting which kept me from taking a non-self initiated break from Cruisecritic.

[angela12345]

My OCD-ness is having me come up with all the words that you could have accidentally typed. I even pulled up the keyboard to see what letters I could use. I know the obvious choice, but those two letters aren't anywhere near each other ! Unless it was a case of DYAC!!! ?

[ShakyBeef]

I would agree it is more noticeable on the Pride, but a small price to pay for the VS on the 4th floor, and it kind of put me to sleep at night....ok, maybe the alcohol was a factor as well. My typos can get much worse, there was one when I was going for funky and what I typed was def not funky. Thankfully I caught that one before posting which kept me from taking a non-self initiated break from Cruisecritic.

 

Oh, I definitely agree, about the Deck 4 VS - 4237 on Pride is my favourite cabin on any ship, so far, even with the vibration. And although the vibration was really bad in our Deck 8 OS on Pride several years ago, I'm booked in a Deck 8 OS again this September (I'd be in that lovely 4237, if it had a capacity of four, but alas, no).

 

I've had tons of typos - they're what I do best:cool: (well, that and using too many emojis and commas:o). But I don't think I've ever had one as epic as "ovulation" problems. That was definitely a good one.:D

[sjn911]

LOL all...will never remember all the tech but thank God I know who and how to research...thanks chengkp75.

[jimbo5544]

My OCD-ness is having me come up with all the words that you could have accidentally typed. I even pulled up the keyboard to see what letters I could use. I know the obvious choice, but those two letters aren't anywhere near each other ! Unless it was a case of DYAC!!! ?

 

LOL, it was not a correct spelling of even the bad word....but I caught it before posting (or in the case of here, someone seeing it).

[jimbo5544]

Oh, I definitely agree, about the Deck 4 VS - 4237 on Pride is my favourite cabin on any ship, so far, even with the vibration. And although the vibration was really bad in our Deck 8 OS on Pride several years ago, I'm booked in a Deck 8 OS again this September (I'd be in that lovely 4237, if it had a capacity of four, but alas, no).

 

I've had tons of typos - they're what I do best:cool: (well, that and using too many emojis and commas:o). But I don't think I've ever had one as epic as "ovulation" problems. That was definitely a good one.:D

I guess I could be known for worse things......;)

[Stefanosthecruiselover]

We were in cabin 7278 2 yeas ago, and we definitely felt the shaking. In fact, the top bunk was vibrating so bad, that we could not sleep.