NCL: A Contrarian View

[Cruzaholic41]

Check out the pricing for HAL, Celebrity, and Princess, all premium - literally the same as NCL and Royal's pricing. Then look at NCL current promos and Celebrity's, then realize that Celebrity did it 1st and NCL is copying them.

 

First - seriously - are you really trying to say NCL is an upscale line like Celebrity? Bwahahahahahahahah!!!!!!! :D

 

Hold on, let me wipe the tears from my eyes. Give me a sec......

 

 

 

 

Ok. Back to the subject. I don't think you're understanding what Aquahound and NLH Arizona are trying to tell you. The price of the cruise does not make the type of the cruise. Niche, Luxury, Premium, and Mainstream cruise lines have their titles because of the lines themselves, not the price to get on board. The classifications have definitions and just because NCL has a suite category called the Haven, it does not up the classification of NCL.

Edited July 21, 2015 by Cruzaholic41

[swedish weave]

NCL is not selling upscale or quality. They are selling the "perception of quality" and if they can convince enough people they are getting their money's worth, they will be successful.

 

That sales gimmick is well over 20 years old, and several companies that I am aware of pulled it off while others failed.

 

If it works, you can raise rates without providing additional benefits and the customers will be happy.

[maywell]

First - seriously - are you really trying to say NCL is an upscale line like Celebrity? Bwahahahahahahahah!!!!!!! :D

 

Hold on, let me wipe the tears from my eyes. Give me a sec......

 

 

 

 

Ok. Back to the subject. I don't think you're understanding what Aquahound and NLH Arizona are trying to tell you. The price of the cruise does not make the type of the cruise. Niche, Luxury, Premium, and Mainstream cruise lines have their titles because of the lines themselves, not the price to get on board. The classifications have definitions and just because NCL has a suite category called the Haven, it does not up the classification of NCL.

Did it not occur to some that Del Rio / Stuart's endgame is to change NCL from 'mainstream' (or "budget" as I like to call it) to "premium" line similar in vein to Celebrity, Princess, HAL - and they already did it. We on the CC board only mostly know about the "negative" changes because it was either announced or it cause an uproar and it then leaked on the web - but what about upcoming changes later this year or next that may not be announced that's similar to those lines.

 

But you know what? Its my opinion that they're trying to make the overall product a step down version of the Oceania experience ( or as Sparks like to call it - 'Oceania-lite"). But I won't be surprised if NCL overall experience winds up being looking similar to Celebrity because the groundwork was already there since Sheehan and NCL is building on top of that.

 

Sent from my SGH-T399 using Tapatalk

[sparks1093]

Not a chance. Lines like NCL, RCI and CCL adorned with waterslides, ziplines, ropes course, etc, will never be in the same swimlane as lines like Celebrity, Princess and HAL. I'm not saying one's better than the other...just different.

 

But I gotta be totally honest here....I did laugh for a second when I saw the suggestion in this thread of NCL possibly being on the level of Celebrity. :D

 

So the man dreams big:).

[NLH Arizona]

Did it not occur to some that Del Rio / Stuart's endgame is to change NCL from 'mainstream' (or "budget" as I like to call it) to "premium" line similar in vein to Celebrity, Princess, HAL - and they already did it. We on the CC board only mostly know about the "negative" changes because it was either announced or it cause an uproar and it then leaked on the web - but what about upcoming changes later this year or next that may not be announced that's similar to those lines.

 

But you know what? Its my opinion that they're trying to make the overall product a step down version of the Oceania experience ( or as Sparks like to call it - 'Oceania-lite"). But I won't be surprised if NCL overall experience winds up being looking similar to Celebrity because the groundwork was already there since Sheehan and NCL is building on top of that.

 

Sent from my SGH-T399 using Tapatalk

Maywell, have you ever cruised on Celebrity? You should and then come back and let's see if you think the same way as you do now. Edited July 21, 2015 by NLH Arizona

[sparks1093]

I know you keep saying that he is trying to make it an upscale line, but there is no way he could do that without putting millions , if not billions, into the product, so I really don't think that is his goal.

 

I only say it because it was so reported on here, either because Del Rio said it or because an industry analyst discerned that is what he is trying to do. In short Del Rio wants to make NCL an entry level line for Oceania et al. I personally don't see how he's going to do it and you don't see how he's going to do it but that doesn't mean that he's not going to try.

[sparks1093]

It's not just Del Rio. It's not like it's one person waving a magic wand saying "how can I piss off and screw over my customers today?" More than likely, it's the board of directors, shareholders or some other governing party that is making these changes. Just saying.

 

As I understand it Del Rio canned the old regime and handpicked his own managers so is it really that different?

[motleyfan]

It's not just Del Rio. It's not like it's one person waving a magic wand saying "how can I piss off and screw over my customers today?" More than likely, it's the board of directors, shareholders or some other governing party that is making these changes. Just saying.

 

Thank you, everytime I say that I feel like I'm talking to a brick wall lol.

[motleyfan]

As I understand it Del Rio canned the old regime and handpicked his own managers so is it really that different?

 

Where is the link that he canned the old regime?

[4774Papa]

First - seriously - are you really trying to say NCL is an upscale line like Celebrity? Bwahahahahahahahah!!!!!!! :D

 

Hold on, let me wipe the tears from my eyes. Give me a sec......

 

 

 

 

Ok. Back to the subject. I don't think you're understanding what Aquahound and NLH Arizona are trying to tell you. The price of the cruise does not make the type of the cruise. Niche, Luxury, Premium, and Mainstream cruise lines have their titles because of the lines themselves, not the price to get on board. The classifications have definitions and just because NCL has a suite category called the Haven, it does not up the classification of NCL.

We have done 8 Celebrity and 5 NCL cruises. We like both, but give the edge to Celebrity.

 

Still, the difference is not as huge as your post implied.

[Jane Don]

I only say it because it was so reported on here, either because Del Rio said it or because an industry analyst discerned that is what he is trying to do. In short Del Rio wants to make NCL an entry level line for Oceania et al. I personally don't see how he's going to do it and you don't see how he's going to do it but that doesn't mean that he's not going to try.

 

I don't believe a word of this. Aside from there being no evidence to support this claim, it would be an astonishingly poor business move. Why in the world would NCLH want to compete with itself? More fee for service, higher grats and a general disregard for consumer concerns indicates to me they are going the other way. They want to compete with Carnival.

 

I am supposing, and I could very well be dead wrong, but until I see evidence I couldn't imagine NCL attempting to heighten its position in the market. Can you cite your sources?

[legion3]

Thank you, everytime I say that I feel like I'm talking to a brick wall lol.

 

Or listening to a brick wall.

[moonieelf]

As I understand it Del Rio canned the old regime and handpicked his own managers so is it really that different?

 

Just because someone is "handpicked" doesn't mean they'll blindly say "yes" to everything.

[moonieelf]

Thank you, everytime I say that I feel like I'm talking to a brick wall lol.

 

I feel the same way.

 

"Surcharges are going up! BURN DEL RIO!"

 

"Port times are changing! BURN DEL RIO!"

 

That sums up the last three days of posts on the NCL CC perfectly.

[sparks1093]

Where is the link that he canned the old regime?

 

Buried somewhere on Cruise Critic.

[sparks1093]

I don't believe a word of this. Aside from there being no evidence to support this claim, it would be an astonishingly poor business move. Why in the world would NCLH want to compete with itself? More fee for service, higher grats and a general disregard for consumer concerns indicates to me they are going the other way. They want to compete with Carnival.

 

I am supposing, and I could very well be dead wrong, but until I see evidence I couldn't imagine NCL attempting to heighten its position in the market. Can you cite your sources?

 

The sources are here on Cruise Critic in this forum. Del Rio has stated that he does not consider Carnival to be his competition. Every time I've priced cruises in the past couple of months NCL has been hundreds more than CCL and RCI.

[sparks1093]

Just because someone is "handpicked" doesn't mean they'll blindly say "yes" to everything.

 

Maybe not but they have the same mindset and want to please the boss so they will make decisions in keeping with the bosses vision.

 

I feel the same way.

 

"Surcharges are going up! BURN DEL RIO!"

 

"Port times are changing! BURN DEL RIO!"

 

That sums up the last three days of posts on the NCL CC perfectly.

 

Last three days? Nah, more like the last 3 to 4 months since Del Rio has taken over;).

[Granny DI]

I have been reading ( and reading …. )(and reading ….) all of the negative rants/reviews/posts/threads/threats about the changes occurring at NCL over the past few months.

 

As some background, my partner and I are just slightly on the wrong side of 50 and have been lucky and fortunate enough in life to travel around a lot of the world on many different ships and many different lines over the past 20+ years. We have sailed on everything from inside cabins on Chandris Fantasy (look it up) up to and including Oceania, Celebrity Xpedition, Travel Dynamics, Ponant, Azamara and The Haven.

 

We used to be complete Celebrity addicts until about two years ago when after three cruises in a row that drove us slightly crazy, we decided that we would become “free agents”. This is, we wouldn’t be slaves to loyalty programs with their free drinks and internet and see what else was out there.

 

We returned to NCL last year and were hooked. However, in the past two years we have also sailed on HAL, RCI, Celebrity, Oceania and Azamara.

 

People … you have NO clue how good you have it on NCL and the spectacular value that is provided. To all those who say they are cancelling their reservations and going somewhere else, I say: “Off you go”!

 

Go on Royal Caribbean and go to the buffet where fried starchy food goes to die, where the varieties of fresh fruit can be counted on four fingers, where smoked salmon doesn’t swim, where roast “turkey” is a strange compressed protinaceous turkoid blob and have the privilege of paying a premium over NCL.

 

Go on Celebrity (where I’ve sailed about 250 nights) and return to the ship at 3:30 and try to get a decent snack without standing in a buffet line serviced by, oh, one server manning the pasta station and one person doing … well, I’m not sure what she was doing. Enjoy the evening “entertainment” and after you’ve woken up, go back to your cabin for a proper sleep.

 

Look at what you’re paying for what you’re getting. I paid $700 for an inside cabin on Celebrity’s Zenith in 1992 and couldn't understand how they could make ANY money providing what they did. That’s about $1400 in 2015 dollars for an inside cabin. Celebrity actually didn’t make any money and that’s why they were ultimately acquired by RCI. Could you imagine paying $1400 for an inside cabin today?! I’d be laughed and ridiculed off of these boards.

 

NCL is cutting back wherever they can … and so is everyone else. Trust me. I’ve been on everyone else and many of them recently. The same economic realities are faced by all of the cruise lines - it’s a fine line between keeping everyone happy while providing shareholder value.

 

Perhaps NCL made a fatal error in actually telling people that they were cutting back as opposed to Royal Caribbean/Celebrity where the on board product was noticeably worse each time you sailed on them without them actually announcing the cutbacks. (As an FYI, Celebrity cut back their entertainment staff to one or two people - trivia, hosts, ambassadors - all gone for the most part - again, look it up)(oh, and by the way, most of their specialty restaurants are now $50(!!!) per person cover charge.

 

Those brand spanking new ships cost a LOT of money and have to be paid for. While it’s fantastic they we’ve all been spoiled and have frankly received more than our dollar’s worth in the past, those days are over. My room at the Hilton before my last Breakaway cruise cost $330 a night with nothing included, or $2300 for the week before meals. What did you spend for the last dinner you went out for at home and how does that compare to per diem that you are paying for a night on a ship that included your room, meals and entertainment?

 

People have to be realistic … it truly is a privilege to have the means, ability and health to go on a cruise but ultimately, it’s still a business that has to make money.

 

Thank you!!!!

[moonieelf]

Maybe not but they have the same mindset and want to please the boss so they will make decisions in keeping with the bosses vision.

 

 

 

Last three days? Nah, more like the last 3 to 4 months since Del Rio has taken over;).

 

I like to give people the benefit of the doubt and I would hope they're not all that corrupt.

 

As for the last few months, I was in my pre-cruise glow, so I don't think I noticed.

[Donna_In_India]

I am taking 11 family members on the Getaway. Since I've booked, they've:

 

1) added room service charges

2) implemented the no taking back food to your room rule

3) (and recinded?)

4) increased DSC

5) changed our port time in Nassau (WITHOUT notifying us thus screwing up our excursion)

6) increased DSC AGAIN (after final payment)

7) and finally changed our port time in Tortola (WITHOUT notifying us)

8) Oh and I booked 2 specialty restaurants where it (STILL) says on the website CHILD price credited on board only to find out after paying that there are no more child prices

 

WTH?

 

And adding insult to injury....fares went down (total of $3000 for all of us) after final payment. Yes, I get that happens on cruises but I book my hotels and airfares early to get a good deal. Only on cruises is it the opposite and do I get penalized for being a planner! :eek:

 

Is this cruise a good deal? Eh. Obviously booking 11 flights makes it difficult

to get a great last minute deal. I really like NCL but I'm not interested in doing the same old itinerary on the Escape. So after the Epic, Breakaway, and Getaway, what next? For 2017's trip, we can fly to a nice island, rent a great house on the beach, and have a great time - including food and entertainment - for about 60% of what this cruise is costing me.

 

I'm not loyal to any one cruise line (like a lot of them) and if you've been on any of the other cruise line boards or FB pages, you know that everyone is complaining about changes (DCL has out priced many people, RCI raised drink prices significantly, service is down and food is mediocre, NCL issues, etc.).

 

I really dislike when people say well go to another line if you don't like 'whatever'. Really? If a cruise line wants to keep me (or anyone) as a customer then you better take care of me. I have no qualms going somewhere else. No one is giving me a FREE cruise....I'm PAYING for it! I am certainly not rude or obnoxious and don't melt down on the crew on a cruise but as with most things in life, when you pay for it, there are certain expectations. I have all intentions of going on this cruise and enjoying it.

 

Oh....NCL did manage to notify me of one thing....apparently there are going to be a gazillion kids on the cruise so they recommend registering the kids in our group at the kids' clubs early. Oh joy.

[maywell]

I'm not going to cut and paste all questions and statements into this post so:

 

 

Regarding the being on Celebrity - No, haven't and probably wont' for the foreseeable because: 1) I noticed that Celebrity is more similar to NCL's Jade & Dawn-class ships size and personally I'm not in the mode / frame of mind right now to get on either type of ships yet due to personal preference of bigger ships like Royal Voyager- class and up, MSC ships,some of Princess's bigger ships. Which leads to 2) after researching photos, deck plans, dailies and reviews (had to due to narrowing down choices for my trips); really not much of difference between NCL and Celebrity except for Celebrity's having assigned seating for MDR and being maybe more of a step up from NCL - but that's about it. Sorry my opinion doesn't sitting well with others - but again its my personal opinion regarding the cruise line and ships.

 

 

Regarding the question of NCL being "Oceania-lite" its from this article:

http://www.nasdaq.com/article/norwegian-cruise-line-may-make-waves-in-luxury-travel-cm424984

 

And the paragraph in question is this from it : Sheehan says the new ships give the company an opportunity to cross-sell Prestige customers Norwegian cruises, by way of its Haven section, a higher-priced private enclave with key-card-only access.

 

"They can have that high-class experience they are used to with Regent and Oceania but on a bigger ship," he said.

 

Pretty much started with Sheenan and Del Rio / Stuart are just following through with it. Which kinda explains some of the changes to make it attractive to those type of cruisers.

Regarding the Del Rio firing employees: http://www.miamiherald.com/news/business/article15388619.html

 

And finally from another article regarding Del Rio overall game plan (and also kinda explains the itinerary hours change- its on part 2 of 3) http://www.thestreet.com/story/13054496/1/how-norwegian-cruise-lines-new-ceo-plans-to-shake-up-the-cruise-industry.html?puc=yahoo&cm_ven=YAHOO

 

Unfortunately, I couldn't find the Andy Stuart TV interview from like 2007/2009? where he talk about getting people to spend more and making NCL more premium / upscale-like; but those other articles are also good to read plus a great start to understand majority of the changes happening. Especially the Sheenan one.

 

 

Edit: Does it genuine bother me? Not really since there plenty of other choices (expensive to me, but nevertheless still choices). Rather see how this will particular shape up actually because that is NCL's current endgame - turning it into a more 'premium/upscale' line.

Edited July 22, 2015 by maywell

[SteelMagnolia9]

It doesn't matter that the Haven is upscale, to be a premium line, the entire ship has to be upscale and, if you have cruised premium or luxury lines, there is no comparison. Pricing has nothing to do with the classification of a ship (mainstream, premium and luxury), it is determined by the ship's public areas, the ship's cabins, the ship's dining, the ship's activities, etc. and trust me, from someone who cruises all three categories, even if NCL were to redo their cabins, they would fall very short from being premium or upscale. NCL can change the price and charge someone $1,000 for a cabin, but in the end, the person will only get an overpriced cabin on a mainstream/mass market ship. It can not be more premium or upscale, they have to be premium or upscale or nothing....there is no passing the ships off as premium when it is not.

 

I agree. And NCL is not pretending to be more than it is, while catering to some individuals who want a more 'upscale' experience where the ship is the destination. I like NCL, but when I went to Alaska this summer, I went with Princess because I wanted the enrichment program/activities that NCL lacks.

[Lancer1568]

I have been reading ( and reading …. )(and reading ….) all of the negative rants/reviews/posts/threads/threats about the changes occurring at NCL over the past few months.

 

As some background, my partner and I are just slightly on the wrong side of 50 and have been lucky and fortunate enough in life to travel around a lot of the world on many different ships and many different lines over the past 20+ years. We have sailed on everything from inside cabins on Chandris Fantasy (look it up) up to and including Oceania, Celebrity Xpedition, Travel Dynamics, Ponant, Azamara and The Haven.

 

We used to be complete Celebrity addicts until about two years ago when after three cruises in a row that drove us slightly crazy, we decided that we would become “free agents”. This is, we wouldn’t be slaves to loyalty programs with their free drinks and internet and see what else was out there.

 

We returned to NCL last year and were hooked. However, in the past two years we have also sailed on HAL, RCI, Celebrity, Oceania and Azamara.

 

People … you have NO clue how good you have it on NCL and the spectacular value that is provided. To all those who say they are cancelling their reservations and going somewhere else, I say: “Off you go”!

 

Go on Royal Caribbean and go to the buffet where fried starchy food goes to die, where the varieties of fresh fruit can be counted on four fingers, where smoked salmon doesn’t swim, where roast “turkey” is a strange compressed protinaceous turkoid blob and have the privilege of paying a premium over NCL.

 

Go on Celebrity (where I’ve sailed about 250 nights) and return to the ship at 3:30 and try to get a decent snack without standing in a buffet line serviced by, oh, one server manning the pasta station and one person doing … well, I’m not sure what she was doing. Enjoy the evening “entertainment” and after you’ve woken up, go back to your cabin for a proper sleep.

 

Look at what you’re paying for what you’re getting. I paid $700 for an inside cabin on Celebrity’s Zenith in 1992 and couldn't understand how they could make ANY money providing what they did. That’s about $1400 in 2015 dollars for an inside cabin. Celebrity actually didn’t make any money and that’s why they were ultimately acquired by RCI. Could you imagine paying $1400 for an inside cabin today?! I’d be laughed and ridiculed off of these boards.

 

NCL is cutting back wherever they can … and so is everyone else. Trust me. I’ve been on everyone else and many of them recently. The same economic realities are faced by all of the cruise lines - it’s a fine line between keeping everyone happy while providing shareholder value.

 

Perhaps NCL made a fatal error in actually telling people that they were cutting back as opposed to Royal Caribbean/Celebrity where the on board product was noticeably worse each time you sailed on them without them actually announcing the cutbacks. (As an FYI, Celebrity cut back their entertainment staff to one or two people - trivia, hosts, ambassadors - all gone for the most part - again, look it up)(oh, and by the way, most of their specialty restaurants are now $50(!!!) per person cover charge.

 

Those brand spanking new ships cost a LOT of money and have to be paid for. While it’s fantastic they we’ve all been spoiled and have frankly received more than our dollar’s worth in the past, those days are over. My room at the Hilton before my last Breakaway cruise cost $330 a night with nothing included, or $2300 for the week before meals. What did you spend for the last dinner you went out for at home and how does that compare to per diem that you are paying for a night on a ship that included your room, meals and entertainment?

 

People have to be realistic … it truly is a privilege to have the means, ability and health to go on a cruise but ultimately, it’s still a business that has to make money.

Agreed. In the last 18 months we have sailed on Celebrity, Princess, Azamara and Norwegian. Of all of those, we liked Norwegian best. The specialty dining is head and shoulders above the others in terms of variety and affordability. The entertainment is clearly superior. I just don't see how a 55 cent daily increase in the gratuity can ruin a cruise especially when if you already had a cruise booked you could prepay the tips at the old rate and thus incur no increase in cost.

[swedish weave]

Buried somewhere on Cruise Critic.

 

The slash and burn tactics of Del Rio were also reported in at least three publications that I have read a few months ago. Many long term employees were dismissed to make jobs for Del Rio's hand picked crew ( including his son ).

[motleyfan]

I feel the same way.

 

"Surcharges are going up! BURN DEL RIO!"

 

"Port times are changing! BURN DEL RIO!"

 

That sums up the last three days of posts on the NCL CC perfectly.

 

Lmaoooo yes it does. I think some people don't understand the point of a board of directors lol.