Dawn princess Norovirus

[Newby58]

And, again, without knowing Australian Public Health regulations, but if they are similar to the USPH, the crew is trained in good hygiene, and it is in their best interest to maintain that hygiene because an outbreak causes them to get sick, have more work to do, and affects everyone living in their "home" not their vacation spot like a passenger.

 

 

Do crew get "sick" leave? Paid normally? No one, pax or crew WANT to get sick. Knowing what to do and compliance are two different issues for crew and pax alike.

[chengkp75]

Do crew get "sick" leave? Paid normally? No one, pax or crew WANT to get sick. Knowing what to do and compliance are two different issues for crew and pax alike.

 

The only time the crew get paid to not work is when they report a GI illness and are quarantined. Compliance for passengers can not be regulated, but compliance for crew is mandatory for continued employment.

 

As I've posted on various threads about noro, if the crew were the source of the contamination, the illnesses would repeat trip after trip, and the number of reportable cases would remain constant during the cruises, rather than climb from low to high in the first couple of days, and then drop lower during the last few days.

[Newby58]

You might want to use Google to learn a bit more about hand sanitizers and viruses.

 

It's free of charge.

 

 

 

Most hand sanitizers do NOT kill viruses.

 

The few sanitizers that actually do kill viruses are extremely expensive and not very effective.

 

You need to read the fine print on the virus killing claims.

 

 

 

In this business, there is a very important concept called "Dwell Time"

 

Dwell time is the amount of time a sanitizer must remain wet and active on your skin in order to kill the virus spores.

 

With most hand sanitizers that actually do kill viruses, the required dwell time is several minutes.

 

How many people put the sanitizer on their hands and have it remain in a liquid state for several minutes?? The answer is - None.

 

The high alcohol content of the sanitizing gel causes it to evaporate in less than a minute. That renders it useless against virus spores.

 

 

 

Why don't cruise lines more strongly enforce the use of hand sanitizers?

 

1. They are expensive.

 

2. They don't really work.

 

3. Studies suggest that heavy use of hand sanitizers reduces handwashing, thereby increasing Viral outbreaks.

 

 

"The business"? What do hospitals use? Spores are different.

[chengkp75]

"The business"? What do hospitals use? Spores are different.

 

Bruce is talking about the Public Health and Sanitation business.

 

Hospitals generally do not rely on hand sanitizers, they rely on thorough, frequent hand washing, that does not kill viruses and bacteria, but simply remove them from the skin. Hospitals use sanitizing agents which are stronger than products available to the consumer, but that still have significant dwell times. No one is going to keep hand sanitizer on their hands, wet (and since the alcohol evaporates quickly, this means multiple applications), for the 3-5 minutes of required dwell time for the ingredients in the sanitizer, at its concentration in the sanitizer, to be effective.

 

When viruses are not in a host, they are in spore form, which is their protective mode when outside a host. Bacterial spores can last for decades, while virus spores are much more fragile, and generally only last days.

Edited July 30, 2015 by chengkp75

[RayWitt001]

"Bacterial spores can last for decades, while virus spores are much more fragile, and generally only last days."

 

I thought the opposite was true. Viruses are not living; they infect a hosts cells, which is what they use to reproduce. Bacteria are living and can reproduce themselves (in the right conditions). Bacteria without the right conditions will die off (I.e raw chicken 'juice' left on a kitchen counter to the point it is dried completely for a few days will have all the bacteria gone because the bacteria need moisture to reproduce and survive - the toxins produced from the said bacteria remain though), whereas the influenza virus that someone sneezed onto the same bench will stay in it's little protective envelopes until they infect a cell to reproduce more of themselves.

I agree hand washing doesn't kill viruses but it can help limit the spread. Every little bit helps.

[chengkp75]

"Bacterial spores can last for decades, while virus spores are much more fragile, and generally only last days."

 

I thought the opposite was true. Viruses are not living; they infect a hosts cells, which is what they use to reproduce. Bacteria are living and can reproduce themselves (in the right conditions). Bacteria without the right conditions will die off (I.e raw chicken 'juice' left on a kitchen counter to the point it is dried completely for a few days will have all the bacteria gone because the bacteria need moisture to reproduce and survive - the toxins produced from the said bacteria remain though), whereas the influenza virus that someone sneezed onto the same bench will stay in it's little protective envelopes until they infect a cell to reproduce more of themselves.

I agree hand washing doesn't kill viruses but it can help limit the spread. Every little bit helps.

 

Viral spores rely on their protein coating to survive outside the host cell. Most viruses will break down within a few days on outside a host.

 

Bacterial spores are more resistant, depending on the bacteria. Anthrax bacteria have been found, still viable in soil samples 70 years after being buried. Bacteria left on surfaces will form spores and remain dormant.

[Newby58]

Bruce is talking about the Public Health and Sanitation business.

 

Hospitals generally do not rely on hand sanitizers, they rely on thorough, frequent hand washing, that does not kill viruses and bacteria, but simply remove them from the skin. Hospitals use sanitizing agents which are stronger than products available to the consumer, but that still have significant dwell times. No one is going to keep hand sanitizer on their hands, wet (and since the alcohol evaporates quickly, this means multiple applications), for the 3-5 minutes of required dwell time for the ingredients in the sanitizer, at its concentration in the sanitizer, to be effective.

 

When viruses are not in a host, they are in spore form, which is their protective mode when outside a host. Bacterial spores can last for decades, while virus spores are much more fragile, and generally only last days.

 

 

Hospitals in Australia recommend alcohol hand rubs in between hand washing to prevent hospital acquired infections.

[Newby58]

I stand by my original post. Hand hygiene is THE most important factor in reducing the spread of Norovirus which in fact is a cluster of viruses.

[Newby58]

Bruce is talking about the Public Health and Sanitation business.

 

Hospitals generally do not rely on hand sanitizers, they rely on thorough, frequent hand washing, that does not kill viruses and bacteria, but simply remove them from the skin. Hospitals use sanitizing agents which are stronger than products available to the consumer, but that still have significant dwell times. No one is going to keep hand sanitizer on their hands, wet (and since the alcohol evaporates quickly, this means multiple applications), for the 3-5 minutes of required dwell time for the ingredients in the sanitizer, at its concentration in the sanitizer, to be effective.

 

When viruses are not in a host, they are in spore form, which is their protective mode when outside a host. Bacterial spores can last for decades, while virus spores are much more fragile, and generally only last days.

 

 

Hospitals in Australia do not use sanitizers that are not available to the public. Alcohol is preferred followed by chlorhexadine or triclosan.

[Newby58]

Percent of alcohol is important.

[bearone]

I work in an Australian hospital and as far as I recall our hand sanitisers are similar to those available to the public(I will take a look when next at work). We can use hand sanitiser between patients but not if handling body fluids etc(blood, faeces, urine etc) or doing procedures, when you must always wash your hands before attending to another patient. In my opinion, Nothing replaces thorough hand washing in preventing the transmission of virus or bacteria. I once nursed my infected son on Voyager of the seas during a severe Norovirus outbreak and was meticulous with hand hygiene and thus avoided illness myself.

[Newby58]

I work in an Australian hospital and as far as I recall our hand sanitisers are similar to those available to the public(I will take a look when next at work). We can use hand sanitiser between patients but not if handling body fluids etc(blood, faeces, urine etc) or doing procedures, when you must always wash your hands before attending to another patient. In my opinion, Nothing replaces thorough hand washing in preventing the transmission of virus or bacteria. I once nursed my infected son on Voyager of the seas during a severe Norovirus outbreak and was meticulous with hand hygiene and thus avoided illness myself.

 

 

I agree.

[hematocrit]

I agree with OzKiwiJJ, Hands Free is an alcohol-free, foaming hand sanitiser that is kind to the skin and non-drying. It contains Benzalkonium Chloride which is active against the norovirus, whereas many of the alcohol based sanitisers are not. As far as I know, you can only obtain Hands Free through the web site, but it is sent very rapidly. The advantage of the 50mL bottles is that you can easily carry one with you and use it when you return to your table after collecting your food and drinks at the buffet.

[NSWP]

Percent of alcohol is important.

One could use Chivas Regal then before entering ye olde Horizon Court Bufffet. Lol.

[to_dee]

One could use Chivas Regal then before entering ye olde Horizon Court Bufffet. Lol.

 

LOL!!!! best suggestion of the thread :D

[Newby58]

LOL!!!! best suggestion of the thread :D

 

 

Ok. I was only trying to help. No problem.

[Adidas4fun]

There is plenty of evidence that norovirus is very hardy and remains infectious for weeks on hard and soft surfaces.

[OzKiwiJJ]

I see we haven't had any further reports of Noro on Dawn. Hopefully the current cruise is free of it. I don't think we heard whether they did a deep clean at Fremantle before embarking the next lot of passengers.

 

The one thing I found frustrating about operating under Code Red on our Sun Princess cruise last Christmas was getting milk for my tea at breakfast in the MDR. Sun didn't appear to have any small milk jugs for individual use. I like a big pot of tea with my breakfast so I can have 2-3 cups. Although the staff were very efficient and wonderful, it was irritating having to get someone to top up my cup all the time.

[takeout]

One could use Chivas Regal then before entering ye olde Horizon Court Bufffet. Lol.

 

Ha ! Ha ! Perfect.

[rugbypopsie]

I see we haven't had any further reports of Noro on Dawn. Hopefully the current cruise is free of it. I don't think we heard whether they did a deep clean at Fremantle before embarking the next lot of passengers.

 

 

 

The one thing I found frustrating about operating under Code Red on our Sun Princess cruise last Christmas was getting milk for my tea at breakfast in the MDR. Sun didn't appear to have any small milk jugs for individual use. I like a big pot of tea with my breakfast so I can have 2-3 cups. Although the staff were very efficient and wonderful, it was irritating having to get someone to top up my cup all the time.

 

 

Just ask for s glass of milk and top your tea with that.

[Brisbanelionsfan]

I agree with OzKiwiJJ, Hands Free is an alcohol-free, foaming hand sanitiser that is kind to the skin and non-drying. It contains Benzalkonium Chloride which is active against the norovirus, whereas many of the alcohol based sanitisers are not. As far as I know, you can only obtain Hands Free through the web site, but it is sent very rapidly. The advantage of the 50mL bottles is that you can easily carry one with you and use it when you return to your table after collecting your food and drinks at the buffet.

 

Just bought Hands First sanitiser that contains Benzalkonium Chloride, from their web site, very easy to do and it was delivered in two days. Great service

 

Cheers:)