Holland America Insurance FAIL

[Jade13]

The problem I have is that I've been told verbally by HA that if one passenger cancels within the 24 hour period prior to departure, then the other passenger is not responsible for single supplement. I am unable to confirm that anywhere on the website for HA. I know that prior to the 24 hour period there is a single supplement but I can't find verbiage on their site regarding the second passenger when the first passenger cancels within the 24 hour time frame.

 

 

I haven't looked at this in a long time, but have them send you a copy of the insurance that is underwritten by the insurance company. It sounds like this is not on their website, but something you would need to request. Alternately see if you can get a copy from the third party insurer. I agree the 24 hours leading up to departure is tricky. In fact most people are in transit.

 

What you are looking for Is the part where the insurer will refund the passenger who is canceling for a covered reason. That would be for illness or the illness of a family member. They will need to submit a claim and remember HAL's policy is secondary to whatever medical they already have which will mean they need the denial letter from their primary insurance before they get reimbursed from the insurer - not HAL. The reason some would want to cancel between 24 hours and 30 days for only a 90% refund is because it is so easy and no medical information or primary coverage needs to be sent - HAL just issues the refund.

Edited November 29, 2015 by Jade13

[franperry4]

I haven't looked at this in a long time, but have them send you a copy of the insurance that is underwritten by the insurance company. It sounds like this is not on their website, but something you would need to request. Alternately see if you can get a copy from the third part insurer. I agree the 24 hours leading up to departure is tricky. In fact most people are in transit.

 

I have asked several times and they refuse to send a copy of the insurance that is underwritten by the insurance company and they refuse to put what they say verbally in writing. I have also called the insurance provider and they will not discuss the coverage in advance of the travel.

[Jade13]

I have asked several times and they refuse to send a copy of the insurance that is underwritten by the insurance company and they refuse to put what they say verbally in writing. I have also called the insurance provider and they will not discuss the coverage in advance of the travel.

 

 

In 2011 it was administered by Berkeley Care, a division of Affinity Insurance Services, except in California. Not sure if it is still the same.

 

I found an old email that had a link to the plan. Of course that link is long gone. Someone on CC who has purchased this plan is entitled to the details and specifics, so someone has it.

 

That makes no sense that they will not discuss it. I would call again. If you already have the policy, you are entitled to get a copy of the Plan Description.

 

HALs website used to say the following,

 

"Please refer to the Plan Description which contains the details of assistance services and insurance coverage, terms, conditions, exclusions and other applicable limitations"

Edited November 29, 2015 by Jade13

[sail7seas]

I have asked several times and they refuse to send a copy of the insurance that is underwritten by the insurance company and they refuse to put what they say verbally in writing. I have also called the insurance provider and they will not discuss the coverage in advance of the travel.

 

If HAL and the underwriter refuse to send you written statements of coverage, why would anyone buy that coverage? :confused: I have never had a problem getting something in writing from an insurer (or prospective insurer) writing what they have said. If they won't write it, why do they say it? How can you know it is accurate? It is perfectly reasonable to ask for written confirmation of what you are told.

 

If they won't send it, WHY NOT?

 

Edited November 29, 2015 by sail7seas

[Jade13]

If HAL and the underwriter refuse to send you written statements of coverage, why would anyone buy that coverage? :confused: .

 

 

 

If they won't send it, WHY NOT?

 

 

 

 

 

I wouldn't either. Makes no sense!

[TiogaCruiser]

The problem I have is that I've been told verbally by HA that if one passenger cancels within the 24 hour period prior to departure, then the other passenger is not responsible for single supplement. I am unable to confirm that anywhere on the website for HA. I know that prior to the 24 hour period there is a single supplement but I can't find verbiage on their site regarding the second passenger when the first passenger cancels within the 24 hour time frame.

 

I'm wondering if that reply is an informal policy or just what that agent believes. I would be surprised if they want to put that in writing. It could open a can of worms (and gaming the system) for them if it is true.

 

I just checked my own HAL policy, (for a cruise in a few weeks), which is available in my profile. I know you said you have already gone down this road, but thought I would post for others to be able to see. The last part says this:

 

"Travel Insurance is underwritten by Transamerica Casualty Insurance Company, Columbus, Ohio; NAIC # 10952 (all states except as otherwise noted) under Policy/Certificate Form series TAHC5000. In CA, HI, NE, NH, PA, TN and TX Policy/Certificate Form series TAHC5100 and TAHC5200. In IL, IN, KS, LA, OH, OR, VT, WA and WY Policy Form #’s TAHC5100IPS and TAHC5200IPS. Certain coverages are under series TAHC6000 and TAHC7000."

 

and

 

 

"This is a brief Description of Coverage which outlines benefits and amounts of coverage that may be available to you. If you are a resident of one of the following states (IL, IN, KS, LA, OH, OR, VT, WA and WY), your Policy is provided on an individual form. To obtain a copy of your Individual Policy or Group Certificate for all other states based on your state of residence, or information regarding the insurance premium portion of your plan cost, visit http://www.affinitytravelcert.com or call 1-800-453-4090. Your Individual Policy or Group Certificate will govern the final interpretation of any provision or claim. For Maryland residents only, to file a complaint with the Maryland Department of Insurance, call 1-800-492-6116 or visit www.mdinsurance.state.md.us."

Edited November 29, 2015 by TiogaCruiser

[Dashwood100]

After reading stuff, I think and believe that the period prior to T-24 [24 hours prior to departure] HAL covers the cancellation of the booking and recovers 10% [call it an admin fee]. Also called Cancellation Protection Plan. Therefore HAL has 1 fare less and they recover it by charging the single supplement. Within the T-24 period to the end of the cruise HAL re-insures with Transamerica Casualty Insurance Company also called Travel Insurance Program. In this case the insurance [Transamerica] would pay the canceler and therefore both bookings would still be paid and there should not be a single supplement charge.

Does this make some sort of sense?

[sail7seas]

What you write makes sense but I cannot say if it is accurate or not but would be happy to learn an absolute answer from someone who knows.

 

[Jade13]

After reading stuff, I think and believe that the period prior to T-24 [24 hours prior to departure] HAL covers the cancellation of the booking and recovers 10% [call it an admin fee]. Also called Cancellation Protection Plan. Therefore HAL has 1 fare less and they recover it by charging the single supplement. Within the T-24 period to the end of the cruise HAL re-insures with Transamerica Casualty Insurance Company also called Travel Insurance Program. In this case the insurance [Transamerica] would pay the canceler and therefore both bookings would still be paid and there should not be a single supplement charge.

 

Does this make some sort of sense?

 

 

Exactly (unless there has been a recent change)

Edited November 30, 2015 by Jade13

[OVgirl]

Dashwood100, that makes a lot of sense, but I haven't seen it written out like that on any of the paperwork for the Platinum Ins. policy. But it's worth being aware of the timing if we'd have to cancel at some point.

[sail7seas]

[quote name=OVgirl

Dashwood100' date=' that makes a lot of sense, but I haven't seen it written out like that on any of the paperwork for the Platinum Ins. policy. But it's worth being aware of the timing if we'd have to cancel at some point.

 

 

 

[/b]

 

Exactly (unless there has been a recent change)

 

This is good information.

Thank you.

 

Edited November 30, 2015 by sail7seas

[OVgirl]

I have asked several times and they refuse to send a copy of the insurance that is underwritten by the insurance company and they refuse to put what they say verbally in writing. I have also called the insurance provider and they will not discuss the coverage in advance of the travel.

 

This is what I found through the HAL website. Not sure if it gives enough details to know what is covered and what is not covered.

 

http://www.hollandamerica.com/assets/cruise-vacation-onboard/CPP_Platinum_Description.pdf

[wander]

For an answer to this question - READ YOUR INSURANCE PAPERWORK CAREFULLY!!!!! The answers should be in there, mine always have been.

 

Some years ago my friend/traveling companion ended up in the hospital and could not cruise about 3 days before we were to leave. In that case, our insurance DID take care of it all and neither of us were out any money, HOWEVER, I did have to pay the single supplement to the cruise line and then get it back from the insurance once I got home and my friend's surgeon had filled out the paperwork for her to get her money back. I had to send a copy of the same paperwork and very quickly got the single supplement money back. (Yes, between the 3 week cruise time, getting the paperwork time and the processing time (which was quick), I was out the money for about five weeks, but no hassles. I did understand the process however, there was no time to get any medical paperwork before the cruise left - they had no way to know if it was truly an emergency or urgency or an overblown story.

 

I am not mentioning the insurance company nor the cruise line (a major one), and the rules and procedures may well have changed since then.

[vbmom87]

I hope your companion will be okay and I am so sorry she had to miss the cruise. I have not read through all five pages, but it sounds like you were going to cancel as well. I am sorry it had to be that way.

 

Whenever one buys anything it is your personal responsibility to read all the fine print. I always buy my insurance independent of the tour provider and I read the policy word for word. Most insurance companies allow you to get a refund of your insurance if you cancel it in within 14 days. That gives you plenty of time to read it and to call with any questions. There can be a big difference in plans. Some do allow you to continue on with your plans with no losses f your traveling partner has to cancel, but others do require you to pay for the other person if you decide to continue with the tour/cruise. It should all be spelled out in the fine print that you should read.

 

One of my friends purchased insurance through the tour company. In her case she wanted reimbursement for missed days. The tour company arranged for all transportation and there were flight delays resulting in over a day of touring. Turned our her insurance plan was only for medical. :-(

 

To anyone reading this thread, the only advice anyone can give is to make sure you get a copy of the insurance policy and take the time to ready it carefully.

[lazey1]

After reading stuff, I think and believe that the period prior to T-24 [24 hours prior to departure] HAL covers the cancellation of the booking and recovers 10% [call it an admin fee]. Also called Cancellation Protection Plan. Therefore HAL has 1 fare less and they recover it by charging the single supplement. Within the T-24 period to the end of the cruise HAL re-insures with Transamerica Casualty Insurance Company also called Travel Insurance Program. In this case the insurance [Transamerica] would pay the canceler and therefore both bookings would still be paid and there should not be a single supplement charge.

Does this make some sort of sense?

 

 

I don't see any indication that HAL has purchased re-insurance with Transamerica Casualty. I believe that the Transamerica Casualty Insurance So. aka Travel Insurance Program is for the individual cruiser to purchase or not purchase depending on his or her risk tolerance.

It doesn't make sense that HAL would purchase re-insurrance for such a small item. Re-insurance is for catastrophic happenings that no single insurance company could or would cover. Such as an airplance or a ship catching fire and the vessle with all crew and passengers are killed. Multiple insurance company would each buy a percentage of the coverage for that type of loss.

[mistycruiser]

Thank you for this clarification, that a 3rd party travel insurance would have a different effect than HAL insurance. So even if my companion cancelled, with 3rd party insurance I would be allowed to cruise alone in the cabin without having to pay the solo supplement. Got it!

 

I guess substitution companion could be a long shot on a case-by-case basis. m--

 

I'm not sure this your assumption is correct. I buy 3rd party insurance and here's the statement re: single supplement "Benefits will be paid up to the Maximum Benefit amount for the additional cost incurred as a result of a change in the per person occupancy for Prepaid travel arrangements."

So the way I interpret this is that for me to be reimbursed for the single supplement, I'd first have to pay it and then file for reimbursement.

[sail7seas]

I'm not sure this your assumption is correct. I buy 3rd party insurance and here's the statement re: single supplement "Benefits will be paid up to the Maximum Benefit amount for the additional cost incurred as a result of a change in the per person occupancy for Prepaid travel arrangements."

So the way I interpret this is that for me to be reimbursed for the single supplement, I'd first have to pay it and then file for reimbursement.

 

You probably would have to pay the money and file a claim for reimbursement but it sure would be good to get that single supplement insured. If you have medical bills, you also could have to pay them and file claim for reimbursement.

 

As long as they ultimately pay, I would be fine with that.

 

[igraf]

You hit the nail on the head here. HAL is trying to collect three fares.

 

("Gee", some of us can do the math)

 

HAL is doing this because they also run the insurance business which is paying out the claim, so they see this as only two fares being paid.

 

You are absolutely right, Tom, this is bogus insurance from HAL. It is probably better that both travel parties buy insurance from an impartial third party and have some personal agreement about what to do if one cancels.

 

igraf

 

 

 

 

 

No I would not go on a cruise without my wife, that was just a hypothetical example to show how ridiculous HAL's policy is.

 

But I now realize, it is not HAL's insurance that is at fault, it is their Single Traveler policy. The single traveler supplement should not be enforced when both fares are already paid.

Edited December 3, 2015 by igraf

[agabbymama]

After reading stuff, I think and believe that the period prior to T-24 [24 hours prior to departure] HAL covers the cancellation of the booking and recovers 10% [call it an admin fee]. Also called Cancellation Protection Plan. Therefore HAL has 1 fare less and they recover it by charging the single supplement. Within the T-24 period to the end of the cruise HAL re-insures with Transamerica Casualty Insurance Company also called Travel Insurance Program. In this case the insurance [Transamerica] would pay the canceler and therefore both bookings would still be paid and there should not be a single supplement charge.

Does this make some sort of sense?

 

I think your opinion is correct. If you look at the HAL policy posted by OVgirl, it clearly calls it a "Protection Plan" and "Insurance" doesn't kick in until the 24 hour period.

 

And HAL is not getting 3 fares. HAL is refunding 1 fare minus the 10%. Cabins are usually sold on a double occupancy. If 1 person books a double occupancy cabin, they pay 2 fares.

 

There was a lot of talk about insuring with the provider a few years ago. I'm not sure of the carrier now, but the ship pulled into port and was confiscated as part of a bankruptcy. Even though the passengers had purchased what they thought was insurance, they were left stranded and had to put out $$$$ much money to get home.

 

Since reading that here on CC, I no longer purchase the cruiseline policy. It's very easy to find independent vendors for travel insurance.

[cruise-a-holic]

This still adds up to HAL getting 3 fares for one cabin.

The companion pays her fare. Then she gets a refund from the insurance. HAL still has the money she originally paid. Now HAL wants a single traveler supplement too? Since the supplement is double the regular fare, that means HAL gets 3 fares for that cabin. The OP double fare plus the amount they received from her companion.

That can't be right.

If my wife is sick on my next cruise and simply doesn't show up at embarkation, I would end up in the room by myself. So, I would then have to pay a single traveler supplement even though we already paid for double occupancy?

 

Tom, I agree with your math!

[K&RCurt]

Tom, I agree with your math!

 

No, Tom's math is wrong, as HAL does not get paid by anyone for the refunded amount.

 

The Insurance is not the same as the Cancellation Protection.

 

The cancellation protection is funded by HAL. They charge a fee for this, taking the risk that the majority of those booked will not cancel.

 

If you cancel prior to 24 hrs before the cruise HAL gives you a 90% refund. HAL is out the 90%. No insurance company refunds HAL the 90%, they make up the loss (and likely make a profit) from the fee they charge everyone who takes the plan and does not cancel plus the 10%.

 

They now have a cabin with only a single occupant. In order to sail in a double cabin as a single, HAL is owed the single supplement fee. They get only what they would have got for the cabin if only one person booked it from the get-go. They do not get 3X the fare, as they refunded the person who cancelled their fare.

 

IF the person cancelling is legitimately sick, ill, or injured and they call and cancel less than 24 hrs prior to sailing THEN the actual insurance kicks in. HAL keeps the fare it collected from the person who cancelled, the insurer pays the insured (the person who cancelled) back the fare per the policy and the person going on the cruise sails as a single. HAL does not charge them the single supplement as they have been paid for the second berth in the cabin already.

[Tom O.]

I appreciate those posters who agreed with my math, but the foundation of my theory of HAL collecting three fares, I now believe is flawed. I was assuming that the HAL plan was a real insurance policy, it is not. Now that I have read it:o, it is actually an extended refund policy.

Instead of cutting off refunds at a much earlier date, if the Protection Plan is purchased, you can cancel right up to the day you cruise and get a 90% refund. This is similar to buying an airline ticket that is refundable - you pay a lot extra for that option.

So the protection plan will be able to refund (90%) of the OP companion's fare, and now the OP gets stuck with the single supplement. The OP should not have to pay for the full supplement. The supplement should be discounted the cost of her companions protection plan and the 10% that HAL is keeping. In other words HAL should not come out ahead of this deal. As it stands, if the OP pays the single supplement, then HAL pockets 10% of her companions fare plus the cost of the companions protection plan. So HAL does not end up selling three fares for one room, but makes a very tidy profit.

I have no idea what it costs, but, I really think this Protection Plan is of no value to friends traveling together.

Edited December 3, 2015 by Tom O.

[sail7seas]

I think your opinion is correct. If you look at the HAL policy posted by OVgirl, it clearly calls it a "Protection Plan" and "Insurance" doesn't kick in until the 24 hour period.

 

And HAL is not getting 3 fares. HAL is refunding 1 fare minus the 10%. Cabins are usually sold on a double occupancy. If 1 person books a double occupancy cabin, they pay 2 fares.

 

There was a lot of talk about insuring with the provider a few years ago. I'm not sure of the carrier now, but the ship pulled into port and was confiscated as part of a bankruptcy. Even though the passengers had purchased what they thought was insurance, they were left stranded and had to put out $$$$ much money to get home.

 

Since reading that here on CC, I no longer purchase the cruiseline policy. It's very easy to find independent vendors for travel insurance.

 

 

I remember all those pax who thought they had insurance but had bought from the cruise line and the only ones who seemed to come out relatively okay financially were those who paid with credit card and their banks reversed some of the charges.

 

Someone is sure to correct me if I am mistaken but I think it was Rennaisance Cruise Line. Ships were impounded in various ports and guests had to make their own way home. I don't recall what happened for crew.

 

We had huge discussions at the time to purchase insurance from a third party.

 

Edited December 3, 2015 by sail7seas

[agabbymama]

I remember all those pax who thought they had insurance but had bought from the cruise line and the only ones who seemed to come out relatively okay financially were those who paid with credit card and their banks reversed some of the charges.

 

Someone is sure to correct me if I am mistaken but I think it was Rennaisance Cruise Line. Ships were impounded in various ports and guests had to make their own way home. I don't recall what happened for crew.

 

We had huge discussions at the time to purchase insurance from a third party.

 

 

That's it Sail, you have a better memory than I do. I couldn't remember Rennaisance for the life of me.

 

And yes, the Board was alive with discussions to purchase insurance elsewhere. The cruiseline policy is only good for the cruiseline.

[Donny-Joe]

I don't really understand the problem with HAL collecting "three fares." It seems to me that Holland America (and pretty much every other cruise line, as well as many other travel providers) has situations where they get paid extra fares for the same cabin, because that's just how cancellation policies work.

 

Say you're going on a cruise with your sister, and then 10 days before leaving she has to cancel for whatever reason, but you can still go. If she has trip insurance, she'll get paid by the trip insurance, but the cruise line still keeps her payment. If you talk your neighbor into going on the cruise with you, you have to book her onto the cruise at the prevailing fare; she doesn't get to use your sister's ticket. The cruise line is now getting paid for three people but is only transporting two.

 

But this is not any different from if both of you cancelled, and then the cruise line found a new pair of people to fill the cabin; they now get four fares for a two-person cabin. It's also not different from if you bought a non-refundable airline ticket and then couldn't go; the airline keeps your money and also tries to book someone else in that seat, and often succeeds.

 

And if a person's friend cancels and the remaining person decides to sail solo, they pay the solo supplement, even though in a sense they've "already paid." This is true for pretty much every cruise line, as best I can tell. As I see it, the single supplement is a fee that's designed to encourage people to find someone to go with them. The cruise company makes a fair amount of money from each person on the ship, via drinks, excursions, photos, gambling, etc., so they really want to get two people in each cabin. The single supplement is really saying, "Hey, you're going to pay for two people anyway, so why not see if one of your friends can go with you?" Without the single supplement, there would be no incentive for a now-single traveler to find a replacement for a canceled roommate.

 

The primary purpose of the cancellation penalties is to decrease last-minute cancellations, but it's also most likely a small revenue generator, and that's perfectly OK. There's no rule that says travel providers can't keep people's money when they cancel and then go ahead and sell that room/seat again.