Istanbul removed from 2016/17 cruises?

[lanceholt]

We were fortunate enough to be in Istanbul the past two years...in 2014 overnight on the Jade, and in Oct. 2015 on the Spirit. We were very aware in October that port stop could be cancelled and were very glad it was not. Yes the port is under construction, and yes it is a dusty walk to the gate, but I don't think that is the reason for certain cruises that embark/debark in Istanbul to make changes. Europe is in a huge state of flux, especially eastern Europe, Turkey, etc. Americans can be targets for sure and a sudden change can make it hard for Americans to get out of a country, as we saw with the Brits this summer on that island. We have traveled to Europe many times, have had no problems/crime/whatever, but are very careful and would certainly not question anyone's judgement who was likewise. It's too bad that people always get on this forum, and act like those who are careful are ninnies. YMMV is the bottom line.

[harz99]

You'll have to explain "YMMV" for me lanceholt. Not a clue?

[All-ready2cruise]

You'll have to explain "YMMV" for me lanceholt. Not a clue?

 

Your Mileage May Vary... in other words you may find different results... you may feel differently about it...

 

Different strokes for different folks is how I see it...

 

Here's the thread where you can find a list of popular acronyms...thanks to che5904

 

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1642440

Edited December 23, 2015 by All-ready2cruise
added link

[old nutter]

Yes, we are stuggling here wih semantics (two nations separated by a common language:)) The thing to remember is that Europe has had to suffer terrorism on our shores for a long time. Even in the near past, the French had the Algerian problem and UK had the Irish issue going back to the 1970s and 80s. I can still remember us having to look under our cars before touching them when we went shopping. Not nice, but we were careful, lucky and survived - many of course did not.

 

I only mention those horrible times because it may well be a difference between European and US attitudes to terrorism. Unfortunately, terrorists thrive on knowing that we have had our lives changed by their actions and so we try our hardest not to let their actions disrupt our lifestyle choices if at all possible. By the way I would never classify people who decide not to take that line and refer to them in any derogatory manner - it is a personal choice and I am all for that. I just regret that some people choose not want to travel to some areas of the world and are forced to miss out on pleasures that we have been able to enjoy.

 

Peace and goodwill to all at this time of year. Have a wonderful Chistmas and best wishes to everyone.

[luvtheships]

Sure, its not like a cruise ship has ever been attacked by terrorist or pirates:rolleyes:

 

 

They don't even teach recent history to school kids any more and what they do teach is so watered down politically correct it is sickening

 

 

I'm not that old but I fully remember what happened to Leon Klinghoffer.

 

Unconscionable actions.

[luvtheships]

We were on the same sailing as you, very sad, Istanbul was my favorite port

 

 

I love Istanbul

 

Went there as an 18 yo and then again in 2012 with my tween teens and adult kids

 

So grateful they got to see the beautiful city and experience the cultural differences

 

My kids especially the 15 yo want to see the pyramids too but sadly I've told them it will probably not ever come to be in their lifetimes

 

They hear my Egypt stories though from my trip there as a 20 yo. I cried when I first saw the pyramids and will never forget that moment

[luvtheships]

I really do wonder what the US media puts out about the rest of the world that makes so many people think that all of these overseas places are so dangerous that nobody should visit them without being in fear of their lives. Yes there are problems in some places and visiting countries that are actually or virtually at war is probably not very sensible. I would certainly cross Syria and Afganistan off my tourist "must go's" for now. Maybe it is living in a country with the highest occurence of mass shootings on the planet that makes people nervous that everywhere else has to be more dangerous than that!

 

I really don't know what it is, but just look at the statistics and then assess the likelyhood of being killed or injured when you are travelling around the world and you will see that the percentages are much higher. Crossing the road or probably even staying in your home are much more dangerous. You are probably even more at risk travelling from your own home to the port! When you ar abroard, do the same as you would anywhere in your own home town or city - keep your eyes open, stay aware of your surroundings and don't make it obvious that you are carrying money or valuables and dress sensibly. Just the same things as you would do going around any city at home.

 

Whatever you do, don't let the sensationalist media headlines stop you from seeing what wonderful places there are to see beyond your shores. Going back to the subject specifically of visiting Istanbul, it probably has the most fascinating history and the most interesting stories to tell anywere in the world. You will see magnificent buildings that date back hundreds and in some cases, thousands of years. Some of them still in pristine condition. If you stay overnight you can witness the evening calls from the minarettes across the city. It is the most hauntingly beautiful sound you will ever hear - an entire city calling it's inhabitants to prayer. Don't let anyone put you off exteriencing this if you can, even if you have to wait until the new port has been finished.

 

 

The 5x per day call to prayer was very interesting to see and the kids still talk about it.

 

As was the irony of a woman in full burka carting a designer handbag and taking pix with an iPad

 

Men kneeling on blankets to pray

 

Having them shut the lights on us in the under ground cistern was fun too. There were hundreds of tourists there at the time but we all kept it together. I believe the power outage thing was done purposely though. No disputing that in my mind.

 

We made sure we had conservative outfits to wear that day in Istanbul because I vividly remember

When I was there as an 18 yo my mom was offered $$$ to sell me to a local!!![emoji79]. True story!!!

[BrianC-80]

It is a shame to lose Istanbul, I loved it when I overnighted on the Jade about a year and a week ago. Thanks to the previous poster mentioning the cistern - good memories! We had someone in our group who had previously been there when they rowed people around before the walkways were built!

 

But in all fairness, the new itinerary does make me want to book this one quite a bit (especially for that deal). I'll have to mull it over Christmas and discuss with the other half. With the exception of Venice, we haven't been to any of the ports on that cruise now.

[duchesslt]

I really do wonder what the US media puts out about the rest of the world that makes so many people think that all of these overseas places are so dangerous that nobody should visit them without being in fear of their lives. Yes there are problems in some places and visiting countries that are actually or virtually at war is probably not very sensible. I would certainly cross Syria and Afganistan off my tourist "must go's" for now. Maybe it is living in a country with the highest occurence of mass shootings on the planet that makes people nervous that everywhere else has to be more dangerous than that!

 

I really don't know what it is, but just look at the statistics and then assess the likelyhood of being killed or injured when you are travelling around the world and you will see that the percentages are much higher. Crossing the road or probably even staying in your home are much more dangerous. You are probably even more at risk travelling from your own home to the port! When you ar abroard, do the same as you would anywhere in your own home town or city - keep your eyes open, stay aware of your surroundings and don't make it obvious that you are carrying money or valuables and dress sensibly. Just the same things as you would do going around any city at home.

 

Whatever you do, don't let the sensationalist media headlines stop you from seeing what wonderful places there are to see beyond your shores. Going back to the subject specifically of visiting Istanbul, it probably has the most fascinating history and the most interesting stories to tell anywere in the world. You will see magnificent buildings that date back hundreds and in some cases, thousands of years. Some of them still in pristine condition. If you stay overnight you can witness the evening calls from the minarettes across the city. It is the most hauntingly beautiful sound you will ever hear - an entire city calling it's inhabitants to prayer. Don't let anyone put you off exteriencing this if you can, even if you have to wait until the new port has been finished.

 

Since 2014, Turkey overhauled its immigration laws to be in line with the open border policies of the EU. As a result, Turkey has been swarmed with close to 2 million Syrian war refugees as it shares a long border with Syria. Turkey does not have the infrastructure or security in place to manage this huge influx.

 

I don't think the media is to blame for the political reality that open borders in Europe is fraught with security issues and the people migrating in many cases do not want to assimilate. Many of the immigrants oppose the more moderate/democratic Islamic ideals embraced by Turkey. There have been incidents involving radical Islamic ideals affecting tourists in Istanbul.

 

I am glad that cruise ships are paying attention.

[karoo]

Since 2014, Turkey overhauled its immigration laws to be in line with the open border policies of the EU. As a result, Turkey has been swarmed with close to 2 million Syrian war refugees as it shares a long border with Syria. Turkey does not have the infrastructure or security in place to manage this huge influx.

 

I don't think the media is to blame for the political reality that open borders in Europe is fraught with security issues and the people migrating in many cases do not want to assimilate. Many of the immigrants oppose the more moderate/democratic Islamic ideals embraced by Turkey. There have been incidents involving radical Islamic ideals affecting tourists in Istanbul.

 

I am glad that cruise ships are paying attention.

 

 

My sentiments too! Personally I'm glad NCL tries to keep us all safe. I was on the Jade January 2014. At our stop in Istanbul, 6 Syrians managed to get on board by swapping identities. (6 passengers got off, 6 different passengers got on.) They got through the Port Security, but the cruise ship security picked it up and we didn't leave port until they were located and the port police escorted them off. They probably weren't dangerous, just wanting passage into the Euro zone. One of the senior officers when commenting on the incident to me raised the question - "it just makes you wonder how many times it's happened before, but it hasn't been picked up?" With all the Syrians flooding into Turkey and Greece at the moment, most of them are probably refugees just seeking a safer place to live and would cause no danger, but unfortunately there is a small percentage that belong to ISIS. If any of these people were to get onboard it wouldn't be a good outcome. So the cruise-lines can't be too careful at the moment as far as I'm concerned.

Edited December 24, 2015 by karoo

[luvtheships]

My sentiments too! Personally I'm glad NCL tries to keep us all safe. I was on the Jade January 2014. At our stop in Istanbul, 6 Syrians managed to get on board by swapping identities. (6 passengers got off, 6 different passengers got on.) They got through the Port Security, but the cruise ship security picked it up and we didn't leave port until they were located and the port police escorted them off. They probably weren't dangerous, just wanting passage into the Euro zone. One of the senior officers when commenting on the incident to me raised the question - "it just makes you wonder how many times it's happened before, but it hasn't been picked up?" With all the Syrians flooding into Turkey and Greece at the moment, most of them are probably refugees just seeking a safer place to live and would cause no danger, but unfortunately there is a small percentage that belong to ISIS. If any of these people were to get onboard it wouldn't be a good outcome. So the cruise-lines can't be too careful at the moment as far as I'm concerned.

 

 

You say "swapped" right? Are you also saying that the 6 who got off had this planned with the 6 who got on?

 

If so that only justifies my theory that pax are total strangers and to keep kids close at hand but I digress. It also says that they are mixing among us a little to well

 

Or were the 6 who got off targeted possibly based on their appearance age ethnicity etc and had their stuff stolen?

 

The latter theory is not plausible unless they were kidnapped or worse ...and wouldn't that have been publicized?....and the former theory is by far a very serious issue because that means pax are in on it and it's preplanned

 

Were the 12 people involved actual pax or crew? Were all 12 arrested?

 

What happened to the first 6 pax?

 

Was this a stowaway issue?

 

 

What you have posted is a serious issue are you quite sure you have all the details straight?

 

You seem to be saying that there were 12 people involved in a very serious security issue regardless of the fact it was caught it still doesn't bode well for the future

 

Stories like this tend to change as they are retold but if you are correct then we might as well all throw in the towel

 

You are posting about something very very serious but I'm not sure you actually have it totally straight....for if you did...I'm speechless

[luvtheships]

You also make the senior officer sound like he was brushing this incident off

 

By his saying he wonders how often this has happened before it sounds like he was an idiot with a big mouth.

 

There is more to what happened ...trust me

 

However if everything you say is accurate then it should shut up those posters who constantly belittle those other posters who have concerns about safety and security

Edited December 24, 2015 by luvtheships

[GUEST080219]

I think it is very telling that when talking about safety issues in Turkey it is talked about syrian refugees and ISIS but not about the turkish government, police actions and the PKK.

Looks like wannabe president propaganda campaign is working in a sad and shocking way.

[karoo]

You also make the senior officer sound like he was brushing this incident off

 

By his saying he wonders how often this has happened before it sounds like he was an idiot with a big mouth.

 

There is more to what happened ...trust me

 

However if everything you say is accurate then it should shut up those posters who constantly belittle those other posters who have concerns about safety and security

 

 

No he wasn't brushing it off. I just don't want to name exactly who it was, but he was very senior and concerned. He also made the decision not to leave until they were located. I was also on the Jade 12 months later and had always wondered how the illegal passengers had managed to get on, at the Q&A with the senior officers it came up and we were told. It was a very clever plan. That was all the detail we got. So12 months later I asked at the exclusive gathering for silver and above latitude members and was told about the switch. One of the security officers realised. Once they caught one, he confessed to the other 5. I remember before the announcement- that we were not leaving as we had extra passengers onboard and we would not leave until they were located, they did page a group of names. This is all fact. I do remember though at our next port of call, Naples, first port of call back in the Euro zone that another group didn't board and we left without them. I have always wondered if this was another switch. This isn't fact though, this is just me surmising. The original 6 passengers that switched were Bulgarian- probably were paid good money. Just me surmising again. I think back in 2014 though the passengers were probably just desperate people trying to get to a better place to live, but the times, 'they are a changing'. I'm sure too that NCL have upped their security, once they realised what could happen. I've done many a cruise with this cruise line. Ashdod was taken off and Egypt off one itinerary I did due to conflict/problems. I did miss those ports, but to me safety has to come first. Not just for the passengers, but the crew as well.

[karoo]

You say "swapped" right? Are you also saying that the 6 who got off had this planned with the 6 who got on?

 

If so that only justifies my theory that pax are total strangers and to keep kids close at hand but I digress. It also says that they are mixing among us a little to well

 

Or were the 6 who got off targeted possibly based on their appearance age ethnicity etc and had their stuff stolen?

 

The latter theory is not plausible unless they were kidnapped or worse ...and wouldn't that have been publicized?....and the former theory is by far a very serious issue because that means pax are in on it and it's preplanned

 

Were the 12 people involved actual pax or crew? Were all 12 arrested?

 

What happened to the first 6 pax?

 

Was this a stowaway issue?

 

 

What you have posted is a serious issue are you quite sure you have all the details straight?

 

You seem to be saying that there were 12 people involved in a very serious security issue regardless of the fact it was caught it still doesn't bode well for the future

 

Stories like this tend to change as they are retold but if you are correct then we might as well all throw in the towel

 

You are posting about something very very serious but I'm not sure you actually have it totally straight....for if you did...I'm speechless

 

 

As I explained in the previous post. 6 embarked in Rome as legal passengers. Swapped cards/identities in Istanbul. Obviously looked very alike too. Those 6 got off and didn't return and a new 6 came on. It was only the security officer who picked that one wasn't legit that alerted them. I don't have all the full details. Only what happened while I was on board. All passengers were alerted to the fact that extra passengers were onboard via their PA system. I however sailed 12 months later and requestioned, as I always wondered how they got on and how security realised.

[luvtheships]

Thank you for explaining the details. So I'm hearing from your post that 6 embarked in Rome and were part of the plot that was to get off in Istanbul and meet these other 6 and give them their ship card so the second group of 6 could continue on the cruise

 

The 1st group would just stay in Istanbul or go wherever

 

So 12 people involved in this

 

And they actually thought the cabin steward...who sees everything ....wouldn't recognize the change?

 

I do not doubt at all that this happened....but it shows me that 12 very stupid people hatched a very stupid scheme....more importantly.....it shows how easy anyone can book a cruise....

 

It's a city of 4000 plus strangers both pax and crew and what happened on your cruise just solidifies that.

[luvtheships]

I think it is very telling that when talking about safety issues in Turkey it is talked about syrian refugees and ISIS but not about the turkish government, police actions and the PKK.

 

Looks like wannabe president propaganda campaign is working in a sad and shocking way.

 

 

Apples and oranges.

[harz99]

I don't understand how, to my knowledge, this incident has never appeared on these boards to date. Something like this makes HUGE headlines.

[luvtheships]

I don't understand how, to my knowledge, this incident has never appeared on these boards to date. Something like this makes HUGE headlines.

 

 

I agree 100%. That is why I was asking for details.

[insidecabin]

I had my eye on the Star Suez cruise to Dubai and it was blocked on the NCL UK site and nothing on US.

 

Looks like the new itinerary for that one might be a 21n from Rome. showing on TA sites.

 

anyone booked on the old Istanbul departure know?

[casofilia]

I had my eye on the Star Suez cruise to Dubai and it was blocked on the NCL UK site and nothing on US.

 

Looks like the new itinerary for that one might be a 21n from Rome. showing on TA sites.

 

anyone booked on the old Istanbul departure know?

 

It is.

 

Mike

[insidecabin]

Thanks will try to get some pricing.