No new ships for Carnival???

[jasong38501]

So Carnival Corp announced today new ship orders from Fincantieri for 4 ships, one for Princess, one for P&O Australia, and two for Costa Asia. This is in addition to the order last summer announced for 4 ships, two going to Costa and two going to Aida (someone fact check that, only going by memory). So it looks like that means for Carnival Cruise Line, the only new ships between now and 2022 will be of course Vista and possiby her sister ship due for delivery in 2018. I say possibly because I find it very curious that absolutely no details seem to be coming forth on here. I wouldn't be a bit surprised to see her join the Miracle and Splendor in China. Anyone else have any information that I have missed? I am getting very frustrated that Carnival is simply letting its ships continue to age without seeming to care.

[jasong38501]

And you think the company will increase its market share in the US with aging ships and less berths? Common sense says that is not possible, especially in a time of economic growth and increased bookings. So defend Carnival all you want, but do not be surprised when you see you are paying higher prices each year to go on increasingly aging ships.

[evandbob]

And you think the company will increase its market share in the US with aging ships and less berths? Common sense says that is not possible, especially in a time of economic growth and increased bookings. So defend Carnival all you want, but do not be surprised when you see you are paying higher prices each year to go on increasingly aging ships.

 

Carnival's CEO has been quite explicit in saying that the Far East market is Carnival Corporation's #1 concern. He estimated he is spending 40% of his time and resources developing that market. Evidently he believes what you wrote in your last sentence.

[jasong38501]

Yeah, it seems the recent economic downturns in the Asian market have had no effect on all cruise lines, not just Carnival Corp, in their plans to expand into China. It still is disappointing as an American consumer to get passed up on all these new ships. While your right the Asian market is not surprising I am surprised with the amount of ships, both new and old, being sent into the Australian market.

[StolidCruiser]

Is the only indicator of "investment" a new ship?

 

Take a look at those other lines with new ships entering the market and how their outlook is forecasted.

 

It's usually smarter to refurbish the old wife rather than buy a fresh new one.

 

If Carnival chooses to maintain its current fleet, its just fine with me. There's nothing wrong with them. They are clearly also satisfying others as their bookings, current and future, are healthy.

 

If you're looking for new builds, try NCL or RCCL... from the looks of things, that's working out swimmingly for them. :rolleyes:

Edited December 30, 2015 by StolidCruiser

[jasong38501]

Is the only indicator of "investment" a new ship?

 

Take a look at those other lines with new ships entering the market and how their outlook is forecasted.

 

It's usually smarter to refurbish the old wife rather than buy a fresh new one.

 

If Carnival chooses to maintain its current fleet, its just fine with me. There's nothing wrong with them. They are clearly also satisfying others as their bookings, current and future, are healthy.

 

If you're looking for new builds, try NCL or RCCL... from the looks of things, that's working out swimmingly for them. :rolleyes:

 

What are you even talking about? NCL, RCCL, and even MSC are all increasing North American capacity next year and all three are ahead of last years pace for future bookings. Carnival has currently announced Vista will homeport in Miami but it will be moving two of its ships to China. Unless they decide to homeport Vista's sister ship in North America they will be decreasing capacity over the next few years while all the other major companies are increasing. I look to MSC to expand at a much faster pace over the next decade. They are developing their own private island in the Bahamas that unlike HMC will feature the ability to dock at the island. And with 7 new builds currently on order, one would imagine several would be for the North American market since they are investing so heavily here. I would call that a good indicator of investment.

[taki183]

Originally Posted by jasong38501 View Post

And why are you fretting over my conversations? If this topic doesn't interest you move along? At what point did you think you were granted the power to determine what I should be interested in? I am much more comfortable knowing I have an interest in what new ships are being built and where they are going than I would be in your shoes being concerned with the topics others choose to be interested in. I have a great idea, perhaps your new years resolution should be to take a look within yourself and learn what is missing in your life that leads you to have nothing better to do than criticize what others choose to discuss. Obviously there is considerable interest in new ships and where they are going or the companies would not put out press releases and cruise industry blogs would not devote resources to cover these developments. So move on and get out of my conversation if you have nothing of substance to contribute. Thanks and have a great life!

 

 

I agree. Who is he?

 

He is like HEALD see my Avatar :D :D:D

[jimbo5544]

What are you even talking about? NCL, RCCL, and even MSC are all increasing North American capacity next year and all three are ahead of last years pace for future bookings. Carnival has currently announced Vista will homeport in Miami but it will be moving two of its ships to China. Unless they decide to homeport Vista's sister ship in North America they will be decreasing capacity over the next few years while all the other major companies are increasing. I look to MSC to expand at a much faster pace over the next decade. They are developing their own private island in the Bahamas that unlike HMC will feature the ability to dock at the island. And with 7 new builds currently on order, one would imagine several would be for the North American market since they are investing so heavily here. I would call that a good indicator of investment.

 

 

For the record, how many ships does MSC have for the Caribbean market now? I will give you hint, it is not zero but less than two.

[jasong38501]

For the record, how many ships does MSC have for the Caribbean market now? I will give you hint, it is not zero but less than two.

 

This proves my point. They are obviously betting big this market. They have big plans or they would not be constructing a private island. No one said they are or would become a top share holder in the market, but they are investing in the North American market at a time when the other big companies are investing the majority of their resources in China.

[tallyho8]

CORRECTION: You did not read the whole story. Carnival just ordered 4 new cruise ships but they already had orders for 13 new cruise ships. This makes a total of 17 new cruise ships to be delivered between next year and 2020.

 

Enough to go around everywhere. :D

 

http://www.bizjournals.com/southflorida/news/2015/12/30/carnival-corp-signs-new-agreement-to-build-four.html

[jimbo5544]

This proves my point. They are obviously betting big this market. They have big plans or they would not be constructing a private island. No one said they are or would become a top share holder in the market, but they are investing in the North American market at a time when the other big companies are investing the majority of their resources in China.

 

 

They have tried before to "invest" in the NA market and it did not go so well. My point is comparing the current one ship to 20+ that Carnival has in the same market.

[jimbo5544]

CORRECTION: You did not read the whole story. Carnival just ordered 4 new cruise ships but they already had orders for 13 new cruise ships. This makes a total of 17 new cruise ships to be delivered between next year and 2020.

 

Enough to go around everywhere. :D

 

http://www.bizjournals.com/southflorida/news/2015/12/30/carnival-corp-signs-new-agreement-to-build-four.html

 

 

True, bust most of the 13 are already spoken for for their other entities. To date, there are 2 Vista and a yet to be named sister ship (that might head elsewhere as well). I think there two out of the 12 that are not already announced where they are going.

[riclop]

And you think the company will increase its market share in the US with aging ships and less berths? Common sense says that is not possible, especially in a time of economic growth and increased bookings. So defend Carnival all you want, but do not be surprised when you see you are paying higher prices each year to go on increasingly aging ships.

 

Very well said!!!

[jimbo5544]

Very well said!!!

 

 

Your right, all ships do age over time.....for the rest of it.... Carnival has more ships to more ports in the Caribbean than everyone else (probably to many ships...but that is another discussion). I am not sure how anyone makes quantum leap from there to raising prices and how MSC figures into any of that.

Edited December 31, 2015 by jimbo5544

[Who Cares?]

So Carnival Corp announced today new ship orders from Fincantieri for 4 ships, one for Princess, one for P&O Australia, and two for Costa Asia. This is in addition to the order last summer announced for 4 ships, two going to Costa and two going to Aida (someone fact check that, only going by memory). So it looks like that means for Carnival Cruise Line, the only new ships between now and 2022 will be of course Vista and possiby her sister ship due for delivery in 2018. I say possibly because I find it very curious that absolutely no details seem to be coming forth on here. I wouldn't be a bit surprised to see her join the Miracle and Splendor in China. Anyone else have any information that I have missed? I am getting very frustrated that Carnival is simply letting its ships continue to age without seeming to care.

 

Armchair quarterbacking. :rolleyes:

[cjknox]

This is absolutely no surprise; because while the U.S. market is growing (albeit in very small increments) the Chinese market is growing three times as fast. Any smart business would focus the majority of its attention on its rapidly growing markets. In Carnival's case it's Asian and Australian regions. Of course the economic winds of change can turn around at a moments notice but for now Asia/Australia are the what North America was 5-10-15 years ago.

 

I wouldn't worry about "the age of ships" because there is something called a refurbishment:rolleyes: which makes ships like new. Also, we'll be getting the Vista next year and Vista II in 2018 I expect another Carnival new build to be ordered/allotted by Autumn 2017 for delivery in Autumn 2020/Spring 2021.

[jimbo5544]

This is absolutely no surprise; because while the U.S. market is growing (albeit in very small increments) the Chinese market is growing three times as fast. Any smart business would focus the majority of its attention on its rapidly growing markets. In Carnival's case it's Asian and Australian regions. Of course the economic winds of change can turn around at a moments notice but for now Asia/Australia are the what North America was 5-10-15 years ago.

 

 

 

I wouldn't worry about "the age of ships" because there is something called a refurbishment:rolleyes: which makes ships like new. Also, we'll be getting the Vista next year and Vista II in 2018 I expect another Carnival new build to be ordered/allotted by Autumn 2017 for delivery in Autumn 2020/Spring 2021.

 

 

Have not seen you around in a while.....

[cjknox]

Have not seen you around in a while.....

 

Yes it's been a while since I've commented; I've just been browsing the forums as of late. :rolleyes::cool:

[jimbo5544]

Yes it's been a while since I've commented; I've just been browsing the forums as of late. :rolleyes::cool:

 

 

Good, stick around. Much better with you then without you.

[Earthworm Jim]

And you think the company will increase its market share in the US with aging ships and less berths? Common sense says that is not possible, especially in a time of economic growth and increased bookings. So defend Carnival all you want, but do not be surprised when you see you are paying higher prices each year to go on increasingly aging ships.

 

Well, I guess you could say their real motive is to increase profits, not market share. So while new ships in North America would presumably increase capacity and probably generate a little bit of additional interest among cruisers, that doesn't take into account the fact that they would have to pay for those new ships at the same time.

 

It may well be for the NA market they have determined that it's better for the bottom line to keep older ships that are already being paid for sailing, even if it does reduce revenue per cabin slightly if older ship's cabins sell for lower prices, than to take on the additional debt to sail new ships here.

[Haoie]

The US market is oversaturated - Asia's growing middle class is where the sweet spot is.

 

Even here down under we're getting more and more ships. P&O Aust got 2 from HAL a month ago, for example.

[TEXASMUNK]

If it is 4, 5 or 6 years old, it is considered ancient. Carnival started with two 25 year of ships.

Cunard built two smaller (14K) ships and is no longer in the Caribbean cruise market.

Carnival has been doing their 2.0 thing with their ships.

 

and yet, the "oh my God, Carnival is doomed" scenario because they are not immediately adding ships to the US fleet seems to be the theme.

 

They are corporations, with stockholders, they will go where the investment provides the best return.