Any lawyers on here?

[cjcruises]

So, I'll start with a little back story.

My family of five is booked on Epic for 22 days in the Haven. We are due to sail in a month.

In Dec I bought $2000 OBC as the Cdn dollar was tanking and we had a good rate locked in with NCL. Shortly after, posts began popping up on CC, stating that pre purchased OBC over $1000 was being refunded shortly before departure.

Because of the length of our cruise, we wanted to purchase more OBC. So a few weeks ago, I called NCL and asked if I was able to do so, citing the comments and info I had found on Cruise Critic. The rep assured me that there was no limit, but escalated my call to a supervisor who, in turn, reported that there was no limit up to $5000. Anything over $5000 required approval from higher up as there were concerns about money laundering. With that information in hand, I bought an additional $2000 OBC.

Tonight, while trying to resolve another issue regarding Thermal Suite passes, we noticed on My NCL that our OBC (well, most of it) was finally showing up on screen. Along with the OBC was a notation that there is a max purchase of $1000 OBC per reservation. That notation apparently hit the website (and the call centre) Jan 21.

Here's my question.... If we purchased OBC in December and again prior to Jan 21st, is NCL obligated to honour that purchase?

[kneught77]

So, I'll start with a little back story.

My family of five is booked on Epic for 22 days in the Haven. We are due to sail in a month.

In Dec I bought $2000 OBC as the Cdn dollar was tanking and we had a good rate locked in with NCL. Shortly after, posts began popping up on CC, stating that pre purchased OBC over $1000 was being refunded shortly before departure.

Because of the length of our cruise, we wanted to purchase more OBC. So a few weeks ago, I called NCL and asked if I was able to do so, citing the comments and info I had found on Cruise Critic. The rep assured me that there was no limit, but escalated my call to a supervisor who, in turn, reported that there was no limit up to $5000. Anything over $5000 required approval from higher up as there were concerns about money laundering. With that information in hand, I bought an additional $2000 OBC.

Tonight, while trying to resolve another issue regarding Thermal Suite passes, we noticed on My NCL that our OBC (well, most of it) was finally showing up on screen. Along with the OBC was a notation that there is a max purchase of $1000 OBC per reservation. That notation apparently hit the website (and the call centre) Jan 21.

Here's my question.... If we purchased OBC in December and again prior to Jan 21st, is NCL obligated to honour that purchase?

 

Most terms state that pretty much they can do whatever they want.... as long as the money is refunded... its pretty much end of story from my experience. :o

[cjcruises]

Most terms state that pretty much they can do whatever they want.... as long as the money is refunded... its pretty much end of story from my experience. :o

 

That's what we suspect, but I am curious about the legalities of it all. I'm going to re-read all the terms and conditions pertaining to OBC. Their own rep, a supervisor, indicated that this is a new policy, effective Jan 21, so the fact that they are naming a start date gives me pause. If they truly can change terms at their whim, why would they need a start date?

 

I just would like to hear from someone with deep understanding of contract law to read their opinion....

[nangirl79]

I had a similar problem. We left on our cruise Jan 23. We left Vancouver Canada Jan 21 and didn't find out until we were onboard that we were missing our OBC. This happened to many Canadians on this sailing and many were upset. On Jan 14 Norwegian sent me our amenity confirmations showing everyone in the staterooms OBC but when get onboard we find out Norwegian has cancelled it. That's like buying a car and when you go to pick it up the car dealership says they don't like the deal anymore and cancels it. I think it's wrong.

[duchess7]

I say people start boycotting NCL due to their policies. While all of the lines seem to be making changes that are not in the passengers favor, I found that NCL is the most restrictive.

 

No water and "certain coffee drinks "with drink package

More and more "specialty" dinner venues, less items in MDR that used to be included. $30 to eat at these venus. When it first started, le bistro was $5.00 and we were told it is a tip for the staff. That is obviously no longer the case since you now have to pay gratuities as well as the extra charge if you purchase a dining package.

 

High upcharge to have alcohol delivered to your cabin in advance. There was always a premium but now I believe it is either $80 or $100 for a bottle.

 

so called "corkage" fee for wine brought aboard even if you have it in your cabin.

 

Even if you want to change the name to allow someone else to travel, any time after final payment, it is considered a cancellation.(other lines may have this also)

 

These are some of the things I could think of right away.

 

Other lines are also getting more restrictive and I think everyone should start letting the cruise lines know the nickel and diming is getting out of hand.

 

I apologize in advance but I just received a ridiculous response to my inquiries to them recently and still feel the need to rant a little. And yes, I am aware that the contracts read in favor of them, not us.

 

Just my opinion

[cjcruises]

What are you going to do OP if so and so on CC says you have a good case? Are you actually going to sue NCL in a US court?

 

I hadn't made any mention of legal action. I just find it curious that NCL feels able to give accept customers' monies and hold them, presumably using the funds in some capacity during that time, and then quietly refunds those monies months or even weeks later, without notifying customers. Further, that NCL's own representatives and supervisors aren't aware of policies and / or, have been given false information (such as a supposed policy as was indicated to me regarding the $5000 limit) would speak to a lack of concern about having fully informed customers. To very quietly make a sudden policy change, specifically one that involves holding significant amounts of other people's money, seems questionable. It certainly gives me pause as to whether or not we will sail with NCL again.

 

LoI also find it interesting that the $1000 is a firm limit, regardless of the length of a cruise or the number of people in one's party.

Edited February 3, 2016 by cjcruises

[cjcruises]

Also, the title of this thread was half in jest. I was really just hoping for the thoughts and opinions of people who are somewhat well-versed in contract law and NCL's terms and conditions. I was also hoping to avoid this thread turning into a list of complaints about 18% gratuities, pricing, room services charges and the like.

[sparks1093]

Also, the title of this thread was half in jest. I was really just hoping for the thoughts and opinions of people who are somewhat well-versed in contract law and NCL's terms and conditions. I was also hoping to avoid this thread turning into a list of complaints about 18% gratuities, pricing, room services charges and the like.

 

It's not good customer relations and this layperson thinks it's breach of contract. Unfortunately as long as they refund the money actual damages would be limited making any legal action like wetting oneself in a dark suit- one will get a warm feeling but people aren't likely to notice.

[xcell]

Tonight, while trying to resolve another issue regarding Thermal Suite passes, we noticed on My NCL that our OBC (well, most of it) was finally showing up on screen. Along with the OBC was a notation that there is a max purchase of $1000 OBC per reservation. That notation apparently hit the website (and the call centre)

 

I'm looking at my Vacation Summary and it still says I have 15 X$100 OBC certificates - where would I find the little disclaimer for only $1000????

[xcell]

Nevermind - saw it but it's not under the $100 OBS, you have to clikc the $500 OBC and $1000 OBC to see the disclaimer...

[funredhead]

I am certainly not an attorney, but I wonder if you couldn't purchase gift cards from ncl. According to the faq's there is a limit of 3 gift cards per transaction. And gift cards can be purchased up to $1000 usd each.

 

22 days! Have a great time.

[cjcruises]

I am certainly not an attorney, but I wonder if you couldn't purchase gift cards from ncl. According to the faq's there is a limit of 3 gift cards per transaction. And gift cards can be purchased up to $1000 usd each.

 

22 days! Have a great time.

 

Gift cards?! Tell me more? Do you mean the OBC certificates that can be purchased on MyNCL in different denominations? That's what we purchased (over the phone). Four $1000 certificates.

I'm wondering if I can purchase several $100 certificates. When I called to purchase them before, they put them through as $1000 certificates. There is no mention of a limit for amounts of $100 or less, so I'm curious about that possibility.

 

Again, I question the legalities of changing the terms of a contract weeks after accepting payment.

[funredhead]

Gift cards?! Tell me more? Do you mean the OBC certificates that can be purchased on MyNCL in different denominations? That's what we purchased (over the phone). Four $1000 certificates.

I'm wondering if I can purchase several $100 certificates. When I called to purchase them before, they put them through as $1000 certificates. There is no mention of a limit for amounts of $100 or less, so I'm curious about that possibility.

 

Again, I question the legalities of changing the terms of a contract weeks after accepting payment.

 

No I actually mean purchasing ncl gift cards. You can buy them in denominations up to $1000. And in the faq's it says a maximum of 3 can be used per transaction. So, I would think you could purchase 3 $1000 gift cards that total $3000. When you get on the ship you take them to the front desk and apply them to your on board spending account.

 

I'm not Canadian. And, I have no idea how the legality works. But, it occurs to me that if they accept gift cards as payment on board (they absolutely do), then really what's the difference between that and obc?

 

i would approach a link to the ncl gift card, but it never works when I do it. So, google it. And read thru the t&c and the faq's.

[ColinIllinois]

Gift cards?! Tell me more? Do you mean the OBC certificates that can be purchased on MyNCL in different denominations? That's what we purchased (over the phone). Four $1000 certificates.

I'm wondering if I can purchase several $100 certificates. When I called to purchase them before, they put them through as $1000 certificates. There is no mention of a limit for amounts of $100 or less, so I'm curious about that possibility.

 

Again, I question the legalities of changing the terms of a contract weeks after accepting payment.

 

 

https://www.ncl.com/giftcard/faq

[ilovetotravel1977]

They don't ship the gift cards internationally (no Canada)...

[boopsahoy]

They don't ship the gift cards internationally (no Canada)...

 

Make friends with someone in the states on your roll call and mail to them...:D

[cjcruises]

I doubt I could buy them at the same favourable exchange rate that I have locked in for my cruise. Otherwise, that would be a possibility.

[jmckay331]

I'm going to make an assumption that the reason for the change in policy is in large part due to fluctuations in exchange rates. By limiting the amount of OBC you can purchase they limit the risk to the company. No as for contract with OBC...not sure if there is a "rule" that says they continue to owe you that money as its like cash sitting in the bank. As long as they give you the money back then they are within their rights. Where you might have an "argument" if is you paid in another currency and when you got your refund you received a different amount back...again not sure about this so take it with a grain of salt. Anyway I wish you luck in whatever you decide to do and hope you enjoy your cruise. I'm very "jelly" of the 22 days.

[cjcruises]

This is all about locking in favorable exchange rates. Why should NCL play this money game?

 

Why would I tie up money now at the same rate I can get any time from my bank?! The reason I tied up thousands of dollars with them for my OBC had to do with the savings. NCL was fully aware of this, as many Canadians were purchasing OBC for that reason. If they want to change their policy now, I get it. But to change their minds after entering into a contract is questionable.

 

If NCL opts not to "play this money game" Going forward, I have no issue with that. I do take issue with the fact that they willingly sell the OBC to consumers, and then quietly refund the money weeks later, often without informing their client that they have done so. That's dirty, IMO.

They offer and make it widely known that they will give Canadians a preferential exchange rate because we make up a good portion of their clientele. To reneg on that offer without informing the client, can leave customers in a bit of a lurch. The difference in the rate for my family is significant. We have made arrangements onboard and onshore based on what it was going to cost us to get USD (in the form of OBC). I'm sure other customers have done the same. To give customers certain assurances and then to change the conditions is not an acceptable way to do business, IMO.

I can just imagine if DH changed the terms of contracts with his customers after they made payment and without notifying them. He wouldn't be in business for long....

[sparks1093]

This is all about locking in favorable exchange rates. Why should NCL play this money game?

 

Not saying they should but if they have sold something then they should honor that sale, even if they've made a mistake. This would be like going into a market and paying for something and on your way out the door having the manager come up and say, sorry, the price has just gone up for those items so I'm going to take them back and give you a refund.

[Kingofwylietx]

The reason I tied up thousands of dollars with them for my OBC had to do with the savings. NCL was fully aware of this, as many Canadians were purchasing OBC for that reason.

 

I think you have answered the question of why they did it. It has been discussed here quite a few times. It appears that those who have worked so hard to enlighten others about the exchange rate 'deal' have been very successful. So successful, in fact, that NCL had to react to it (probably because so many people were doing it).

 

The rest of it, I think you are SOL. The passenger contracts are written to strongly favor the cruise lines. By paying your fare, you have accepted those terms. They can change almost anything they want to change and you will have no recourse.

 

I don't like that they have carte blanche over changing policies at any time for any reason....but we agree to give them that right by paying our fares.

 

@Sparks1093 - I don't follow your analogy. OBC is not a physical product, it is an account where they hold money for you. It is more similar to a checking account than groceries. The situation presented in this thread is that people want to place money in that account at a particular exchange rate. That conversion rate has changed in such a way that it costs the cruise line. The cruise line wants to limit their loss. This would not be an issue if they held the money as Canadian.

Edited February 3, 2016 by Kingofwylietx

[sparks1093]

I think you have answered the question of why they did it. It has been discussed here quite a few times. It appears that those who have worked so hard to enlighten others about the exchange rate 'deal' have been very successful. So successful, in fact, that NCL had to react to it (probably because so many people were doing it).

 

The rest of it, I think you are SOL. The passenger contracts are written to strongly favor the cruise lines. By paying your fare, you have accepted those terms. They can change almost anything they want to change and you will have no recourse.

 

I don't like that they have carte blanche over changing policies at any time for any reason....but we agree to give them that right by paying our fares.

 

@Sparks1093 - I don't follow your analogy. OBC is not a physical product, it is an account where they hold money for you. It is more similar to a checking account than groceries. The situation presented in this thread is that people want to place money in that account at a particular exchange rate. That conversion rate has changed in such a way that it costs the cruise line. The cruise line wants to limit their loss. This would not be an issue if they held the money as Canadian.

 

It's still a completed purchase and the terms can't be changed after the fact. I understand that NCL needs to protect itself and fully support them implementing policies to do so- but before the transaction occurs, not after. They are an international company, surely they were aware of currency fluctuations before they accepted people's money.

[Kingofwylietx]

It is a transaction, but I don't think it is a purchase. I view it as a deposit.

 

In any case....I had more sympathy until I just read the other thread about Canadian exchange rates in this forum....and people are asking how much they can put in the OBC account, then asking how to cash it out from the casino. That changed my feelings of sympathy toward a fella wanting a slight advantage to one of disdain for people being greedy. Those people are trying to use the cruise line to cash out a financial gain, not just a small advantage to use onboard.

[MsTabbyKats]

Let's make the analogy that the price of the cruise itself goes up....so NCL raises the rate for each passenger to the current rate.

 

There would be a mutiny....just like what Canadians should do.

 

If they have a "starting date" they should honor past purchases.

[MsTabbyKats]

It is a transaction, but I don't think it is a purchase. I view it as a deposit.

 

In any case....I had more sympathy until I just read the other thread about Canadian exchange rates in this forum....and people are asking how much they can put in the OBC account, then asking how to cash it out from the casino. That changed my feelings of sympathy toward a fella wanting a slight advantage to one of disdain for people being greedy. Those people are trying to use the cruise line to cash out a financial gain, not just a small advantage to use onboard.

 

Well, if NCL wants to be pro-active, they should change that policy or raise the rate for Canadians.