HAL's Veendam - a great disappointment!

[cruz chic]

Agreed.

 

I hope OP finds another cruise line. I'd hate to run into them onboard.

 

Wow, that's a bit judgemental.

[Topsham]

OP - I don't know you and I take most posts at face value unless I have reason to believe otherwise. Some of your post could be questioned, but I am sorry you are encountering so much bullying and even a lack of professionalism from one poster who is held in high regard by HAL for his talents. It's quite sad to see this other side. It seems that sometimes this forum brings out the absolute worst in people who are usually otherwise polite and helpful.

 

If there is nothing to add by way of valid comment or help, why post nasty insults?

 

 

 

Lizzie, No, not to the OP.... the comment about for the switch was for myself! Sorry, no comment was intended to offend.

 

Stephen

[cruz chic]

Thank for your report. There were some very serious problems on some ship(s) a while back when they installed some new pools in the aft deck according to one Hotel Manger we spoke with.

 

When the water splashed out when the ships tilted there was apparently no way they were not going to flood the cabins below. I suspect that is what was behind installing those silly aft splash pools in their place on some of the ships.

 

Don't hear those flooded stateroom reports any longer. The HM claimed this was pure engineering oversight and was still scratching its head, but he was also no friend of Seattle claiming a lot them had not even been on a HAL ship but were planning and making decisions in a void - he was old school HAL.

 

So yes, ship does happen from time to time. But never once felt staff on board was indifferent to passenger complaints. However, often there was nothing that could be done and cabin switches were offered whenever they can ....along with the future cruise credit compensation and ubiquitous chocolate strawberry plates.

I was on the Veendam last May. I had several issues but the most problematic was the air conditioning and the toilet. I was down ant the desk several times trying to get issues fixed until I met a guy called Gabriel at the front desk. I had to flush my toilet about every 3 hours or it would overflow. Finally Gabriel got the plumber there and it was a 2 minute fix. The other front staff just blew me off. Several people I talked with had problems with the front desk they could not get resolved. After I sent them to Gabriel their problems were solved. It's very clear that you believe that Hal can do no wrong. Some compassion for others would be very nice since you were not in their situation.

[Lizzie68]

Lizzie, No, not to the OP.... the comment about for the switch was for myself! Sorry, no comment was intended to offend.

 

Stephen

 

No, it was the post claiming the front office staff assigned an inferior cabin to a couple who were "demanding and difficult." I don't believe it, but if true it doesn't say much for either the front office staff or you for repeating it.

[Topsham]

No, it was the post claiming the front office staff assigned an inferior cabin to a couple who were "demanding and difficult." I don't believe it, but if true it doesn't say much for either the front office staff or you for repeating it.

 

 

 

No, they did not put the into an inferior cabin... they put them UP into a much better cabin... small suite. I was put up to a much better suite!

 

It was not on a HAL ship.

[hmorrow]

Sounds like the Veendam we know and despise.

 

Sorry,

 

 

DITTO

 

Helaine

[SilvertoGold]

While it is necessary for the water to be shut down occasionally, it is customary to inform the affected passengers ahead of time. On our recent cruise on the Celebrity Constellation the water to the entire ship was shut off for 4 hours to replace a pipe. All throughout the day prior to the shut down, the cruise director and the Captain mentioned it in every announcement, it was in the daily bulletin and a note was left on our bed and a card next to the sink stating that water would be shut off between 1:00am and 5:00am and that we should run the faucet and the shower for at least 5 minutes until the water was clear the next morning before using it for any other purpose. No one was surprised that the water was off as we were all well prepared due to being proactively advised.

 

You really do have to allow for emergencies. A pipe burst or serious leak can cause a huge flood in a matter of minutes.

 

Your description of a planned water shut-down is exactly what we have experienced many times on HAL: they do this professionally also.

Edited February 19, 2016 by SilvertoGold

[dznymom]

Wow, this sure is a tough crowd. To listen to a few of you one would think you were actually on this cruise following the op around to discount each and every one of his problems. Blaming air conditioning and plumbing problems on other passengers did give me a good chuckle though.

 

OP, I cruised the Veendam last summer and ran into some similar issues. However, because we had grabbed a last minute bargain and sailed to our favorite port of Hamilton, Bermuda, we forgave a lot. Had I paid anywhere near what you paid with the problems you had (and I take them at face value) I would have been furious. I am truly sorry you had so many problems, and I wish you smooth sailing in the future.

Edited February 19, 2016 by dznymom

[SilvertoGold]

I actually agree with the OP about the peepholes on the cabins doors. We have sailed in some HAL cabins where I was not able at all, even on tiptoes, to use the peephole. On most others, it is a stretch. The peepholes are a safety feature and should be able to be used by all. This is bad planning.

 

We've experienced on HAL some of the OP's problems. Water off, thermostats that don't work, A/C problems. We dd not have too much trouble getting these fixed. I wish this had been the case for the OP.

 

I noticed with no small surprise that the toilet seemed NOT to be a problem. What a relief!!

[OlsSalt]

Wow, this sure is a tough crowd. To listen to a few of you one would think you were actually on this cruise following the op around to discount each and every one of his problems. Blaming air conditioning and plumbing problems on other passengers did give me a good chuckle though.

.......

 

Sorry, but passengers can cause A/C and plumbing problems. This is well known and hopefully understood up front. Why the chuckle?

 

There are warning signs for both issues, but some passengers either do not see them or do not consider why they are there. I do admit the warning sign on the balcony doors is woefully inadequate to explain why they need to keep the balcony door shut.

 

Also having these warning signs only in English will be a growing problem since so many more non-English speakers are part of the new international cruise community.

 

Plus no one is "blaming" the poster for the problems he encountered; only mentioning that someone on his HACV or plumbing circuit may well have caused the problem upstream that he has to now face. Just a general reminder that indeed sometimes passengers themselves need to show a little extra care, though it is HAL's job to make sure they get the message far better than they are now.

[SilvertoGold]

Sorry, but passengers can cause A/C and plumbing problems. This is well known and hopefully understood up front. Why the chuckle?

 

There are warning signs for both issues, but some passengers either do not see them or do not consider why they are there. I do admit the warning sign on the balcony doors is woefully inadequate to explain why they need to keep the balcony door shut.

 

Also having these warning signs only in English will be a growing problem since so many more non-English speakers are part of the new international cruise community.

 

Plus no one is "blaming" the poster for the problems he encountered; only mentioning that someone on his HACV or plumbing circuit may well have caused the problem upstream that he has to now face. Just a general reminder that indeed sometimes passengers themselves need to show a little extra care, though it is HAL's job to make sure they get the message far better than they are now.

 

Good post! Hit all the nails on the head!

[cruz chic]

Sorry, but passengers can cause A/C and plumbing problems. This is well known and hopefully understood up front. Why the chuckle?

 

There are warning signs for both issues, but some passengers either do not see them or do not consider why they are there. I do admit the warning sign on the balcony doors is woefully inadequate to explain why they need to keep the balcony door shut.

 

Also having these warning signs only in English will be a growing problem since so many more non-English speakers are part of the new international cruise community.

 

Plus no one is "blaming" the poster for the problems he encountered; only mentioning that someone on his HACV or plumbing circuit may well have caused the problem upstream that he has to now face. Just a general reminder that indeed sometimes passengers themselves need to show a little extra care, though it is HAL's job to make sure they get the message far better than they are now.

Yes, passanger can cause these issues but when it's prevalent on a ship I doubt that's the problem. Hal likes to put the blame on passangers too. Again on the eurodam I had toilet issues on my cruise. One day it was a couple hours when it didn't flush, another day iirc it was more than 4 hours. The front desk asked me if I flushed something I shouldn't have :rolleyes:. No I hadn't. The plumber said there was a major problem when he was trying to fix it. At no time did he ask me if I flushed something I shouldn't.

Edited February 19, 2016 by cruz chic

[FlotationDevice]

I noticed with no small surprise that the toilet seemed NOT to be a problem. What a relief!!

 

There was a toilet?

 

Seriously, my rant was partly due to repetitive inconvenience/frustration, but also to the fact that my wife will no longer book on HAL (even with a massive $250 discount!). Until this trip we enjoyed their ships and itineraries. That resource has changed or is gone, but in any case we now must find other opportunities. Oceania, I suppose.

 

And it's amusing that no one noticed (or commented on) the thermostat photo...

 

FINALLY

My commentary was 100% statement of fact from a reasonably experienced observer. If you're annoyed by the result, tough.

Edited February 19, 2016 by FlotationDevice

[SilvertoGold]

Yes, passanger can cause these issues but when it's prevalent on a ship I doubt that's the problem. Hal likes to put the blame on passangers too. Again on the eurodam I had toilet issues on my cruise. One day it was a couple hours when it didn't flush, another days iirc it was more than 4 hours. The front desk asked me if I flushed something I shouldn't have :rolleyes:. No I hadn't. The plumber said there was a major problem when he was trying to fix it. At no time did he ask me if I flushed something I shouldn't.

 

 

Good example of why I take anything said by Front Desk people with a grain of salt.

 

I don't know what it is with some people on the Front Desk, either under trained, poorly trained, in need of an attitude adjustment, or actually told to fob pax off plus insult them and their intelligence while they are at it.....

 

Having said that, I do know from experience in waiting in line and hearing what SOME pax say, what SOME pax's attitude is, how rude SOME pax can be.......it is not an easy job. Which does not make it OK to be less than polite, truthful and helpful.

[cruz chic]

Good example of why I take anything said by Front Desk people with a grain of salt.

 

I don't know what it is with some people on the Front Desk, either under trained, poorly trained, in need of an attitude adjustment, or actually told to fob pax off plus insult them and their intelligence while they are at it.....

 

Having said that, I do know from experience in waiting in line and hearing what SOME pax say, what SOME pax's attitude is, how rude SOME pax can be.......it is not an easy job. Which does not make it OK to be less than polite, truthful and helpful.

 

Absolutely. I good portion of my last job was dealing with the company's partners. We did make a fair number of errors but there was also some really stupid people. I just loved it when these lovely people told me how stupid I was. I certainly don't miss that. It is tough but I didn't assume everyone I talked to was a moron.

[iancal]

IMHO, one of the biggest issues for older HALnships is system degradation. HVAC systems degrade over time. Upgrading them can be a major issue.

 

It gets even more complicated when you sail on a ship that has had additional cabins added after the initial build. Theses units take away from the original HVAC and Plumbing designs.

 

sailing through very warm climes just makes this worse for certain cabin areas of these ships. It is one of the reasons why we read of so many Veendam complaints on this board.

 

Bringing the HVAC and plumbing systems up to original spec is expensive and involves a fair amount of out of passenger service time. HAL is foregoing this expense. Unfortunately a small percentage of cabins will bear the brunt of the cost saving/cost avoidance. Just one of the reasons why we choose not to sail on HAL's older ships. From our perspective why take a chance with OUR money and OUR time. A shut up and go away OBC or future cruise credit in no way makes up for this from our perspective.

[SonnekeH]

Good post! Hit all the nails on the head!

 

I agree passengers can cause problems. My former DH was a prime example. First thing he would do when we got into the cabin was play with the thermostat. It was always "wrong" "too hot" "broken" "a useless piece of s#$%%@$" next he would prop the balcony door open, and it HAD to stay that way, because he needed AIR. He never managed to screw up the toilet though.....but then, we were only on one cruise together. Life is much more peacefull now.

[SilvertoGold]

I agree passengers can cause problems. My former DH was a prime example. First thing he would do when we got into the cabin was play with the thermostat. It was always "wrong" "too hot" "broken" "a useless piece of s#$%%@$" next he would prop the balcony door open, and it HAD to stay that way, because he needed AIR. He never managed to screw up the toilet though.....but then, we were only on one cruise together. Life is much more peacefull now.

 

Yikes!

[SilvertoGold]

There was a toilet?

 

Seriously, my rant was partly due to repetitive inconvenience/frustration, but also to the fact that my wife will no longer book on HAL (even with a massive $250 discount!). Until this trip we enjoyed their ships and itineraries. That resource has changed or is gone, but in any case we now must find other opportunities. Oceania, I suppose.

 

And it's amusing that no one noticed (or commented on) the thermostat photo...

 

FINALLY

My commentary was 100% statement of fact from a reasonably experienced observer. If you're annoyed by the result, tough.

 

Best way to compare cruise lines is to go on lots of different ones. Since your wife won't sail on HAL again, there is your chance to see how the others compare: price/cabins/service/maintenance/the whole 10 yards.

I hope you find peepholes low enough for your wife and me!

 

As for toilets: you got off easy as toilet problems are one of the biggies, at least on HAL.

 

I enjoyed this thread a lot. Nothing like differences of opinion!

[sail7seas]

It is always so disappointing to read of out of order/repairs being needed over and over. It happens too often, IMO.

 

[OceanTraveller4ever]

It is sad when things go awry, and then the morale could sink and bring everything down with it.

Traveling always brings its problems, and folks deal with it in different ways.

 

As far as booking a cabin/suite, I would at least bring up a ship schematic, and look at what I am paying for.

 

Booking agents just assume that folks would know that a suite usually means a larger cabin on a ship.

 

Any cruise line will have some problems of such or other. We just have to do our homework, and be flexible, and patient, on any shortcomings, unless they are glaringly wrong.

 

JMO...

[dznymom]

Sorry, but passengers can cause A/C and plumbing problems. This is well known and hopefully understood up front. Why the chuckle?

 

There are warning signs for both issues, but some passengers either do not see them or do not consider why they are there. I do admit the warning sign on the balcony doors is woefully inadequate to explain why they need to keep the balcony door shut.

 

Also having these warning signs only in English will be a growing problem since so many more non-English speakers are part of the new international cruise community.

 

Plus no one is "blaming" the poster for the problems he encountered; only mentioning that someone on his HACV or plumbing circuit may well have caused the problem upstream that he has to now face. Just a general reminder that indeed sometimes passengers themselves need to show a little extra care, though it is HAL's job to make sure they get the message far better than they are now.

 

If it is actually the case that a couple of people leaving a balcony door open can wreak havoc with the air conditioning for an entire section of the ship, that is clearly a design flaw. If it is because the system is old and unable to keep up with demand, that is a maintenance issue. Either way, it is unacceptable.

 

No one should accept over flowing or non-flushing toilets as the norm, and it seems to be the norm on the Veendam. No one should have to spend a week or more in a stateroom that won't stay at a comfortable temperature for any reason. Unacceptable.

[OlsSalt]

If it is actually the case that a couple of people leaving a balcony door open can wreak havoc with the air conditioning for an entire section of the ship, that is clearly a design flaw. If it is because the system is old and unable to keep up with demand, that is a maintenance issue. Either way, it is unacceptable.

 

No one should accept over flowing or non-flushing toilets as the norm, and it seems to be the norm on the Veendam. No one should have to spend a week or more in a stateroom that won't stay at a comfortable temperature for any reason. Unacceptable.

 

 

Unacceptable for you, but others point out these are issues well within their own tolerance level. But agree, you need to know what you could run into. It is wrong however to assume these issues are routine or universal. Or assume that people will not follow the "rules" when the ship does put out warning signs about the verandah doors and plumbing

 

Maybe at another time there did not need to be "failsafe" design systems built into ship travel. People just did what they were asked to do, expected tropical weather when they went to the tropics, and wet wipes had not come into such popular use. I don't know. But they obviously were designed with a different sort of passenger in mind. More for the keep calm and carry on type sea going passenger.

 

Having sailed on the original sister ship of the Love Boat which used to sail as the MV Discovery, it is a kick to see what was the height of cruise glamour at one time and opened the world to pleasure cruising because of that TV series: tiny cabins, an industrial head, no closets or built in cabinets, cramped dining room, small public areas, multi use lounge with no stage, and little outdoor deck comfort. But not that long ago that too was state of the art. When my parents sailed, it was bunk beds and bathrooms down the hall. This was the expected and accepted cruise standard. You rolled with it. No one knew any better.

 

So now you know, these smaller older HAL ships are not for you. But they still work for others, who go in with their eyes open. The crushing disappointment of course would be for those who did not know what they might run into occasionally on the older, less failsafe ships and it was beyond their coping mechanisms to put up with less than design perfection. That indeed is HAL's obvious headache. I am sure HAL will be happy to say good by to these older ships and put their emphasis on the more modern ones which can be designed to be more failsafe for the passengers of today. However, please accept this will break the heart for many of us too once they are finally gone. I am sorry you had less than a happy voyage on them.

Edited February 20, 2016 by OlsSalt

[antique sailor]

AHOY SHIPMATES

 

As the bumper sticker sez "S..T HAPPENS''. DW and I were on the same cruise with you.....on deck 5 midship. WE HAD A WONDERFUL CRUISE AND STAYED ABOARD FOR AN EXTRA 14 DAYS.

I don't doubt that everything you said is true, including the peephole in the door being too high for your wife. I had a bad cruise once on the MAASDAM but went back a couple years later and was very happy with the ship and have always been happy with HAL (excluding the World Cruise in 2002) I suggest you give HAL a second chance when you have had time to reflect .

SEA YA.

[sammiedawg]

If it is actually the case that a couple of people leaving a balcony door open can wreak havoc with the air conditioning for an entire section of the ship, that is clearly a design flaw. If it is because the system is old and unable to keep up with demand, that is a maintenance issue. Either way, it is unacceptable.

 

No one should accept over flowing or non-flushing toilets as the norm, and it seems to be the norm on the Veendam. No one should have to spend a week or more in a stateroom that won't stay at a comfortable temperature for any reason. Unacceptable.

 

Amen, failing mechanical systems are totally unacceptable. The problems are beyond routine maintenance and cosmetic redos.

People are not paying to go on a camping trip.

On our last Veendam trip people spent 12 days in cabins with no ventilation. They were repeatedly told repairs would be made in the next port, however the HVAC issues overwhelmed repairs.

My travel agent friend frequently hears post cruise stories about these old ships, she is stunned that anyone sails them and says this is the big issue hurting Holland America.