Carnival isn't keeping up

[jimbo5544]

Is that even a measurable comparison? Count?

 

I had to check but including new builds, Royal has one more ship than Carnival.

 

But I would still think it goes by berths.

 

LOL, new builds that are cruising or will cruise in the future? Actually you made me look it up. According to wikipedia Carnival has a world wide market share of 21.1% and Royal has 17%. We could discuss this more but not sure of the value. Royal is number one in debt, of that we can be sure though.....

[Je Souhaite]

LOL, new builds that are cruising or will cruise in the future? Actually you made me look it up. According to wikipedia Carnival has a world wide market share of 21.1% and Royal has 17%. We could discuss this more but not sure of the value. Royal is number one in debt, of that we can be sure though.....

 

That's funny. How does debt affect passengers?

 

And new builds are those ships about to launch, like the Vista, which I think is Carnivals first new ship in half a decade.

[Je Souhaite]

LOL, new builds that are cruising or will cruise in the future? Actually you made me look it up. According to wikipedia Carnival has a world wide market share of 21.1% and Royal has 17%. We could discuss this more but not sure of the value. Royal is number one in debt, of that we can be sure though.....

 

That's funny. How does debt affect passengers?

 

And new builds are those ships about to launch, like the Vista, which I think is Carnivals first new ship in half a decade.

[jimbo5544]

That's funny. How does debt affect passengers?

 

And new builds are those ships about to launch, like the Vista, which I think is Carnivals first new ship in half a decade.

 

I bet they don't think it is funny (billions in debt), just since you seemed to question a post, I thought me giving you something to claim that royal was better at was a good thing (with a tinge of humor....).;) Is Royal building more new ships than Carnival now....yes. Notice that you did not reply to the market share portion, but we can move on......please

[LMaxwell]

Developers leverage debt to build more. Nothing particularly shocking or newsworthy about that. OPM. Other people's money. P/E matters more. NCL is heavily in debt as well; but those lending money think they companies have strong credit worthiness. I don't really see a problem with the debt load given current economic situation. Should the economy tank again and bookings drop it could be an issue.

[jimbo5544]

Developers leverage debt to build more. Nothing particularly shocking or newsworthy about that. OPM. Other people's money. P/E matters more. NCL is heavily in debt as well; but those lending money think they companies have strong credit worthiness. I don't really see a problem with the debt load given current economic situation. Should the economy tank again and bookings drop it could be an issue.

 

I did not mean to imply they were going under, that's for sure.;) The rating companies are not worried.... Building lot's of new ships means you have to fill them week after week after week. Might have been a factor in sailing the Anthem into someplace she should not have gone, but that is a different story for a different day.

[jaluvma]

Carnival Fantasy (1990) - Bahamas and Caribbean from Charleston, SC

Carnival Ecstasy (1991) - Caribbean or Bahamas from Miami, FL

Carnival Sensation (1993) - Bahamas from Port Canaveral, FL

Carnival Fascination (1994) - Bahamas from Jacksonville, FL

Carnival Imagination (1995) - Mexico from Los Angeles, CA

Carnival Inspiration (1996) - Mexico from Los Angeles, CA

Carnival Elation (1998) - Caribbean from New Orleans, LA

Carnival Paradise (1998) - Caribbean from Tampa, FL

Carnival Triumph (1999) - Caribbean from Galveston, TX and San Juan, Puerto Rico

Carnival Victory (2000) - Bahamas and Caribbean from Miami, FL

Carnival Conquest (2002) - Caribbean from Fort Lauderdale, FL

Carnival Pride (2002) - Bahamas, Bermuda, and the Caribbean from Baltimore, MD; Tampa, FL; and San Juan, Puerto Rico

Carnival Legend (2002) - Alaska and Hawaii from Seattle and Vancouver, BC

Carnival Glory (2003) - Caribbean from Miami and San Juan, Puerto Rico

Carnival Miracle (2004) - Hawaii and Mexico from Los Angeles, CA

Carnival Valor (2004) - Caribbean and Bahamas from Port Canaveral, FL and San Juan, Puerto Rico

Carnival Liberty (2005) - Caribbean from Port Canaveral, FL and San Juan, Puerto Rico

Carnival Freedom (2007) - Caribbean from Fort Lauderdale, FL and Galveston, TX

Carnival Splendor (2008) - Bahamas, Bermuda, Caribbean, and Canada/New England from Miami, New York City, Norfolk, San Juan

Carnival Dream (2009) - Caribbean from New Orleans and San Juan

Carnival Magic (2011) - Caribbean from Galveston, TX

Carnival Breeze (2012) - Caribbean from Miami, FL

Carnival Sunshine (2013) - Previously the Carnival Destiny, ship was significantly refurbished, modified, and renamed in 2013 - Caribbean, Bermuda, and the Bahamas from Port Canaveral, San Juan

 

 

this is a list of carnival new ships built and also those refurbished

[Je Souhaite]

Wow. 5 ships in the past decade. That's kinda dismal. I remember the days when NCL had the oldest fleet.

[Je Souhaite]

I bet they don't think it is funny (billions in debt), just since you seemed to question a post, I thought me giving you something to claim that royal was better at was a good thing (with a tinge of humor....).;) Is Royal building more new ships than Carnival now....yes. Notice that you did not reply to the market share portion, but we can move on......please

 

Yeah. You referenced Wikipedia. You know anyone can change that to anything. I just laughed and moved on.

[Sweet Dutch Girl]

To complete your logic, you could save an awful lot of money eating at restaurants that are waterside.

 

Touche'. But then living in a land locked area I'd still have to travel, pay for a hotel and airlines....and eating at a restaurant would only last an hour or so, what would I do with the rest of my vacation time. If someone cruises for BIG ship amenities, good on them...just not my cruising agenda.

[jimbo5544]

Wow. 5 ships in the past decade. That's kinda dismal. I remember the days when NCL had the oldest fleet.

 

Not sure if it is dismal or not, but those numbers don't lie. For whatever reason it is, they have decided to stay committed to the Fantasy class and also not end of with 30+ ships (if they continued with new builds). Is it smart? Who knows, time will tell I guess.

 

The corporation has made the determination that the Carnival arm will be their American/Caribbean focus (Carnival Australia aside, for whatever reason they chose to do that) and they think they can do that with marginally increasing fleet size (new builds) to do so. Based upon a lot of comments on this thread, people are happy with the product and ships serving the Caribbean.

[Je Souhaite]

Not sure if it is dismal or not, but those numbers don't lie. For whatever reason it is, they have decided to stay committed to the Fantasy class and also not end of with 30+ ships (if they continued with new builds). Is it smart? Who knows, time will tell I guess.

 

The corporation has made the determination that the Carnival arm will be their American/Caribbean focus (Carnival Australia aside, for whatever reason they chose to do that) and they think they can do that with marginally increasing fleet size (new builds) to do so. Based upon a lot of comments on this thread, people are happy with the product and ships serving the Caribbean.

 

Actually they've been trying to unload some of the fantasy class ships, but there's no buyers.

[Indytraveler83]

One thing to pay attention to is how Carnival uses the ships it has:

 

Fantasy class is used for short cruises and cruises from less popular ports. These ships allow Carnival to operate in ports and cater to passengers that others cannot.

 

Conquest/Dream/Vista classes are big enough for the features that Carnival is investing in right now. Whether you agree with this direction or not, Carnival seems to have no intention of adding rock climbing walls, ice rinks, etc. Instead they want to focus on eateries, movies and waterworks.

 

Personally I think they are getting it right by trying to bring the whole fleet up to standard rather than focusing on slamming out a ship or two a year while the rest of the fleet gets even more out of date.

 

RCI is in a different place, as its new ships fit their vision and the old ships are far too small for the features they want.

 

Also keep in mind that both some home ports and many ports of call can't handle the mega ships. Getting bigger faster than the ports can handle it won't help our selection options much.

[Thorncroft]

For whatever reason it is, they have decided to stay committed to the Fantasy class and also not end of with 30+ ships (if they continued with new builds).

 

Fantasy class is not going anywhere anytime soon. It's not a sellers market. RCI has the same problem. The days of passing along their old ships to their small, boutique cruise lines are over, at least for now. The new, start up cruise lines are all going with their own newbuilds.

[Tripper10]

Actually they've been trying to unload some of the fantasy class ships, but there's no buyers.

 

Why would anyone buy those? Besides the booze cruises Carnival use them for now, they have no use.

[Indytraveler83]

Fantasy class is not going anywhere anytime soon. It's not a sellers market. RCI has the same problem. The days of passing along their old ships to their small, boutique cruise lines are over, at least for now. The new, start up cruise lines are all going with their own newbuilds.

 

To add to this, the overall lifespan of a ship is huge. Some of the older ships were converted ocean liners that were retired due to updated safety regulations, not because they weren't useful any longer. Thus, some of Carnival and RCI's original new builds were in higher demand to replace these forcibly retired ships. Those ships are still useful and meet safety standards, the smaller cruise lines have no need to replace them.

 

I also can't imagine the costs of a Fantasy class vs say the old Carnival Holiday. Imagine a budget cruise line that needs to refurb, pay for and operate one of these vessels. We forget that while the Fantasy class is far smaller than say the Dream class or the RCI new builds, it is still a monster step up from anything before it.

[Thorncroft]

Why would anyone buy those? Besides the booze cruises Carnival use them for now, they have no use.

 

They won't. That's why Carnival is keeping them running.

[jimbo5544]

Why would anyone buy those? Besides the booze cruises Carnival use them for now, they have no use.

 

They seem to be being used just fine now.... Several are being used for week long cruises.

[jimbo5544]

Fantasy class is not going anywhere anytime soon. It's not a sellers market. RCI has the same problem. The days of passing along their old ships to their small, boutique cruise lines are over, at least for now. The new, start up cruise lines are all going with their own newbuilds.

 

Can't disagree with what you say, that said, they are not having trouble filling the ships....

[NightOne]

LOL, new builds that are cruising or will cruise in the future? Actually you made me look it up. According to wikipedia Carnival has a world wide market share of 21.1% and Royal has 17%. We could discuss this more but not sure of the value. Royal is number one in debt, of that we can be sure though.....

 

True numbers BUT across the brands Carnival Corp has much more market share:

 

http://www.cruisemarketwatch.com/market-share/

[jimbo5544]

True numbers BUT across the brands Carnival Corp has much more market share:

 

http://www.cruisemarketwatch.com/market-share/

 

Good info, thanks

[jetskier]

Also keep in mind that Carnival Cruiseline is not the only one in the Carnival Corp getting ships. So that also explains why there is a time lag between new builds.

Dave

[jimbo5544]

Also keep in mind that Carnival Cruiseline is not the only one in the Carnival Corp getting ships. So that also explains why there is a time lag between new builds.

Dave

 

True enough, many builds in this time frame are for Costa, HAL, Princess, P&O and the rest of the brands under the umbrella.

[Thorncroft]

Carnival doesn't need any new ships right now. Sure, new ships are nice, but until they can get rid of some of the old, they'll create an over capacity that will drive prices down again. Right now is not a good time to be trying to sell off the older ships. No one wants them. I think that RCI is finding itself in the same situation, although they seem to be sending some of their newest ships to China. It will be interesting to see if China turns out to be a bust for the US based cruise lines. It seems like some of the shine is wearing off of China rather quickly.

[jimbo5544]

Carnival doesn't need any new ships right now. Sure, new ships are nice, but until they can get rid of some of the old, they'll create an over capacity that will drive prices down again. Right now is not a good time to be trying to sell off the older ships. No one wants them. I think that RCI is finding itself in the same situation, although they seem to be sending some of their newest ships to China. It will be interesting to see if China turns out to be a bust for the US based cruise lines. It seems like some of the shine is wearing off of China rather quickly.

Been hearing rumors that the whole China thing is slowing down also.