Terrorism

[Islandattorney]

I was not joking about shoes/wardrobe...nor am I anything but heartbroken for the unfortunate victims and their families. You can never reduce your chances of being caught in a terror attack to zero, but you can absolutely reduce the risk percentage by doing all necessary to blend in to the local surroundings. And yes, avoiding speaking English out in public, knotting your scarf a certain way, carrying foreign language newspapers we have often passed for other nationalities when travelling at high-risk times. This is a basic safe-travel tool recommended by security experts. for decades...just like always scanning and noting possible exits or hiding spots.

 

My point being that no, we won't stop travelling or enjoying life but yes, we will take all possible precautions to increase our safety chances.

 

Avoid speaking English in public? Really? How does this extreme list of precautions fit with the notion that we "won't stop ...enjoying life"? I can well understand leaving the t-shirt with an ad or slogan at home, or even skipping the groups following the tour guide holding up a tassel on a stick, but I vote for continuing the basic things in our lives that make travel joyful.

[orchestrapal]

I was not joking about shoes/wardrobe...nor am I anything but heartbroken for the unfortunate victims and their families. You can never reduce your chances of being caught in a terror attack to zero, but you can absolutely reduce the risk percentage by doing all necessary to blend in to the local surroundings. And yes, avoiding speaking English out in public, knotting your scarf a certain way, carrying foreign language newspapers we have often passed for other nationalities when travelling at high-risk times. This is a basic safe-travel tool recommended by security experts. for decades...just like always scanning and noting possible exits or hiding spots.

My point being that no, we won't stop travelling or enjoying life but yes, we will take all possible precautions to increase our safety chances.

 

Yes leave your white sneakers baseball caps and capris at home. BUT! ENglish has become the Lingua Franca all over WEstern Europe and many other places. We do both know several other languages but will continue speaking English and still be safe.:rolleyes

[Paulchili]

I was not joking about shoes/wardrobe...nor am I anything but heartbroken for the unfortunate victims and their families. You can never reduce your chances of being caught in a terror attack to zero, but you can absolutely reduce the risk percentage by doing all necessary to blend in to the local surroundings. And yes, avoiding speaking English out in public, knotting your scarf a certain way, carrying foreign language newspapers we have often passed for other nationalities when travelling at high-risk times. This is a basic safe-travel tool recommended by security experts. for decades...just like always scanning and noting possible exits or hiding spots.

 

My point being that no, we won't stop travelling or enjoying life but yes, we will take all possible precautions to increase our safety chances.

 

You can delude yourself all you want into believing that "blending into local surroundings" will make you safer. It is a reasonable approach for you because it makes you FEEL safer. However, it has nothing to do with facts of terrorism.

In the last several brutal acts of terrorism in Europe (Madrid, London, Paris, Brussels) looking or even actually being "local" had no advantage for the victims. The terrorists din't care whether they were local or Americans. These poor people just found themselves in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Therefore, a more reasonable approach would be - are you comfortable traveling abroad or not. There are some precautions one can take but none are foolproof .

Speaking for myself, I refuse to allow the terrorists to "lock me in" into my home and deny me the pleasures of traveling and exploring the world ,as that is my passion in life.

[hypercafe]

At this point it does not seem to me Americans are the target. It's just a gamble you will not be involved. If you want to go, go, however flying to Europe is just not worth the hassle for me. There is lots to see in the Americas for me.

[wristband]

Paulchili has an excellent point. We are deluding ourselves to think we should communicate in Esperanto (rather than English), avoid wearing sneakers and hide cameras during the day as a secret way to confuse & telegraph to terrorists not attacking us specifically.

 

Their war is against the West. Jihadis do not discriminate in selectively killing cruise passengers, shopkeepers or casual bystanders, Canadians, Brits or Dutch. Their avowed goal is to hit as many soft targets and kill as many people as possible in hopes of fostering fear and destabilizing the economy.

 

Days prior to Brussels, jihadis murdered almost 100 tourists at several resorts in Africa and over 30 in the center of the tourist district in Istanbul. Did they care if they were killing Turks, Kurds, native Malians or tourists? Nope.

 

As Paul notes, jihadis could care less if you try to blend in with a Tommy Bahama shirt riding the Madrid subway, entering the Brussels airport, walking in the Marais in Paris or sitting at a café at Kuta Beach in Bali. They want to kill us all and kill as many of us as they can.

 

The European Union may soon break up, England may soon vote to exist the EU. Who knows? Personally speaking, the Europe we all once knew and treasured is no longer, the Islamization of Europe is quite real and the continued threat to the European way of life is not going to vanish any time soon.

 

My point - as I think is Paul's: the risk/reward calculus is one all of us should carefully weigh rather than tossing out trite clichés like "I won't let fear run my life and I won't give in to the terrorists."

[GeezerCouple]

They also win if they hurt you

 

Paulchili has an excellent point. We are deluding ourselves to think we should communicate in Esperanto (rather than English), avoid wearing sneakers and hide cameras during the day as a secret way to confuse & telegraph to terrorists not attacking us specifically.

 

Their war is against the West. Jihadis do not discriminate in selectively killing cruise passengers, shopkeepers or casual bystanders, Canadians, Brits or Dutch. Their avowed goal is to hit as many soft targets and kill as many people as possible in hopes of fostering fear and destabilizing the economy.

 

Days prior to Brussels, jihadis murdered almost 100 tourists at several resorts in Africa and over 30 in the center of the tourist district in Istanbul. Did they care if they were killing Turks, Kurds, native Malians or tourists? Nope.

 

As Paul notes, jihadis could care less if you try to blend in with a Tommy Bahama shirt riding the Madrid subway, entering the Brussels airport, walking in the Marais in Paris or sitting at a café at Kuta Beach in Bali. They want to kill us all and kill as many of us as they can.

 

The European Union may soon break up, England may soon vote to exist the EU. Who knows? Personally speaking, the Europe we all once knew and treasured is no longer, the Islamization of Europe is quite real and the continued threat to the European way of life is not going to vanish any time soon.

 

My point - as I think is Paul's: the risk/reward calculus is one all of us should carefully weigh rather than tossing out trite clichés like "I won't let fear run my life and I won't give in to the terrorists."

 

First, our hearts go out to those directly affected.

 

But we've both been surprised by the rather cavalier words about how "we won't change our plans or 'they' win..."

The above comments seem more grounded in reality, to us at least.

 

Yes, at this point, we are still more at risk in the car heading to the airport, but things are changing pretty quickly, in a - to us - frightening way.

 

And we sure wish we had started our "pre-retirement travel" about 5 or so years ago. There are now some places we are unlikely to see, even though we won't stop traveling entirely.

 

However, in a few more years, about the time we are in our rocking chairs, our media room will have some nice virtual reality.

(I recently saw a VR recording of a taping of Saturday Night Live, and wow! Except that I really hurt my neck twisting around fast and furiously to "see" the cardholder below, the guy asking a question high on the other side. And that was on a freebie cardboard holder for a simple iPhone!)

 

We just didn't expect to be thinking of VR for this type of reason...

 

We are in limbo just now, but we might make some changes in our itineraries after all.

[Pet Nit Noy]

Speaking for myself, I refuse to allow the terrorists to "lock me in" into my home and deny me the pleasures of traveling and exploring the world ,as that is my passion in life.

 

There's a continuum between the extremes of "locking one's self at home" and traveling with no changes to destination and style of travel.

 

Right now, I'm feeling more cautious than I have felt after previous terrorist attacks. I feel this way because of...

o the ineptitude of the Belgian security forces.

o the fact that the latest Brussels strikes were pushed forward so the terrorists could make one more strike as police investigating Paris seemed to be closing in. (How many more times might this happen as the long-overdue crackdown is taking place?)

o the fact that there are neighborhoods in England, Germany, Spain, and France that are breeding grounds for terrorism like the Brussels suburbs which were the incubators for the latest terrorists.

o the easy travel across borders in western Europe for individuals not yet on watch lists.

 

There's no reason why I have to travel to western Europe every year. This may be the year to travel to Australia. This may be the year to visit some appealing place in the US or in Canada. My point is I don't think the terrorists have won just because I don't visit western Europe in 2016.

 

I've attached an article from the Washington Post titled, "Belgian police mount raids; prosecutors acknowledge missed opportunities."

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/americans-among-dead-in-brussels-attacks-kerry-says/2016/03/25/51c90ff2-f1f0-11e5-a2a3-d4e9697917d1_story.html?hpid=hp_hp-top-table-main_brussels-650a%3Ahomepage%2Fstory

Edited March 25, 2016 by Pet Nit Noy

[Hawaiidan]

That for one of the first times, the ISIS/Al Queda folks have issued a specific decree to target Americans... Yes the attacks recently were against a mix of nationalities without any definition.

However, going forward the game , as announced, by the terror boys ( and Reiterated by our state dept) is that the new focus will be Americans

 

More than dress, language and stuff like that, The tact I am taking is is to avoid being in situations, groups, locations or actives of any sort that would appear an attractive target. Avoiding the situation before you get into one.

Not being seen is rather easy to do if you try... Our special forces train in this aquired skill.. You can pick up the basics pretty fast. Avoiding the herd and where it gathers for enjoyment is a good place to start.

 

Being aware of where your going is today important. In Belgium with open arms drew in thousands of bad guys, and indeed it was the country which has the supplied ISIS with the most European fighters.. and un wisely welcomed them back to Belgium. Other areas Amsterdam ,Munich, Cologne, and Parts of Paris have a similar problem. Every place in Europe needs to be treated on an individual baisis..dont assume anything.

 

Saying I'm not going to change my travel desires and enjoy what I want is just as irrational as saying I am staying home and locking the doors .

[no fuss travel]

Please remember people, we have our own home grown terrorists in the USA and Canada. They are citizens of our countries, born in our countries, and yet they are terrorists. They have been brain washed. Are you going to stop travelling to the USA and Canada now? Both countries have had terrorists attacks. Britain has their own home grown terrorists as well as many other European countries and other continents as well.

 

We need to stop the brain washing of our young people. Maybe the advent of internet, Twitter, Youtube and so on has not been a great thing. The fact that many parents are covering up for their children instead of letting them face the music for when they have made mistakes. The fact that many parents have no idea of what their children are browsing while they are on the computer. For youth of today, access to information is a simple click on the mouse. When we were growing up, no mouse, no internet, no Youtube, no Twitter and so on. Was there terrorists then? Yes, but because there was no internet, we were not aware of it as we are today.

 

Let's not attack either side of the argument, but lets find a way to stop the brain washing of those following the terrorists. I don't have the answer, does anyone?

[Paulchili]

There's a continuum between the extremes of "locking one's self at home" and traveling with no changes to destination and style of travel.

 

Agreed.

To quote me more accurately, I thought you might have included this part of my post:

"There are some precautions one can take but none are foolproof ".

 

I'd just like to make a couple more points:

1 Obviously, everyone has to decide for themselves as to how much "risk" they are willing to take with their travels. The answer to this will vary from person to person - no single choice will work for all of us.

2 Once one decides to travel, which method or precaution will be most effective to avoid danger from terrorists, short of not traveling at all. I doubt that anyone has the answer to this. Australia is one of my favorite places in this world but not everyone is prepared (or able) to fly 15+ hours to visit Australia. What options do they have? What if their bucket list includes Paris or Rome as they have already visited the Grand Canyon and Yellowstone? As we all know, we've had acts of terrorism in our own backyard here at home (good old US of A)

Everyone has to decide this for themselves :)

Edited March 25, 2016 by Paulchili

[Mura]

I am reminded of an email friend on the Yahoo Oceania list who said her husband wanted to go everywhere else before hitting the U.S. I pointed out to her that you see the national parks here best when you can hike off the main roads ... that's better done when you are younger (not necessarily young, but YOUNGER).

 

We have done much travel through the parks, often hosting our Danish friends who are overwhelmed by what they see. On our first trip with Sisse, when we arrived at the Badlands she ran out of the car. "You come to Europe when you have THIS?" She couldn't believe the splendor in front of her eyes.

 

So far we aren't stopping our European travels, but I have noted that coincidentally of our next three trips (June and October 2016, April 2017), two are transatlantics ... hopefully no terrorists will try to blow up a small island in the Atlantic. And I like to think that small towns in Norway (on our June/July cruise) will be immune to terrorist attacks ...

 

I could be wrong, but we aren't staying home.

 

Mura

[Sopwith]

My wife and I are leaving next week for a trip that will include both Paris and Brussels. I am not planning to make any changes at the moment, but we are keeping our options open, not because of fear of death or injury, but more to be able to avoid the chaos that might ensue. The odds of getting mixed up in a terrorist event are minuscule compared to the odds of having a car crash on the way to the airport.

 

As a Canadian who has travelled extensively throughout the world, having visited almost 50 countries and territories, I can tell you that the most unsafe country I have visited is the US. It is a country with tens of millions of people running around with loaded guns; where young kids get shot up in their schools; where worshippers get shot in their churches; where teenagers get shot while eating popcorn at a movie theatre. The really terrifying part of it is the notion that the solution to the problem is more guns.

 

The intent of the terrorists is not to kill a few dozen people. It is to strike fear into everyone else, however irrational that fear may be. Regrettably, judging from what I read above, it is working.

 

Anyone who is afraid of getting killed or injured by a terrorist attack should read this.

Edited March 26, 2016 by Sopwith

[janecambridge]

Mura,sadly,69 people were murdered on an island in Norway in 2011...

 

I personally will avoid going anywhere near a public place where I see a person wearing just one black glove on their left hand....The trigger for suicide vest!

[Mura]

Mura,sadly,69 people were murdered on an island in Norway in 2011...

 

I personally will avoid going anywhere near a public place where I see a person wearing just one black glove on their left hand....The trigger for suicide vest!

 

My apologies, Jane. I never should have forgotten about that horrible incident. But wasn't that near Oslo? An outing for students? (Not that Trondheim would be immune if Oslo wasn't.)

 

And thanks for the hint about the black glove on the left hand!

 

Mura

Edited March 26, 2016 by Mura

[Hawaiidan]

I am reminded of an email friend on the Yahoo Oceania list who said her husband wanted to go everywhere else before hitting the U.S. I pointed out to her that you see the national parks here best when you can hike off the main roads ... that's better done when you are younger (not necessarily young, but YOUNGER).

 

We have done much travel through the parks, often hosting our Danish friends who are overwhelmed by what they see. On our first trip with Sisse, when we arrived at the Badlands she ran out of the car. "You come to Europe when you have THIS?" She couldn't believe the splendor in front of her eyes.

 

 

 

Mura

 

Having worked as a US Natl Park Ranger Naturalist ( Mt Rainier, Rocky Mt, Carlsbad Caverns, Sequoia, Kings Canyon, and Hawaiian Volcanoes) I thank you for your appreciation of our National Parks, Americas best idea...There is nothing in this world like them.....

 

Spent 10 years+ living and working in some pretty neat places. And yes almost 1/3 of all visitors to our parks come from other countries... with the Germans and Swiss making up a huge portion. A Swiss friend on seeing the Sierras exclaimed, why do you want to come to Switzerland.

As to safety in your parks, the recent developments localy and abroad has given rise to a new Ranger division the LE Ranger, heavily armed and trained they now account for almost half of the Ranger staff and partol and subdue a lot of bag guys you never hear about.... A sr Ranger once said of Yosemite, "we have had every crime you can think of committed here in the park except a presidential assassination and unnatural acts with goats, and thats because we dont have any goats"

[Jancruz]

You can delude yourself all you want into believing that "blending into local surroundings" will make you safer. It is a reasonable approach for you because it makes you FEEL safer. However, it has nothing to do with facts of terrorism.

In the last several brutal acts of terrorism in Europe (Madrid, London, Paris, Brussels) looking or even actually being "local" had no advantage for the victims. The terrorists din't care whether they were local or Americans. These poor people just found themselves in the wrong place at the wrong time.

Therefore, a more reasonable approach would be - are you comfortable traveling abroad or not. There are some precautions one can take but none are foolproof .

Speaking for myself, I refuse to allow the terrorists to "lock me in" into my home and deny me the pleasures of traveling and exploring the world ,as that is my passion in life.

 

Paul, I have always believed in fate..and being in the wrong place at the wrong time is just part of it..I refuse to change my life and allow the terrorists to win...Here in LA we see our news every night someone was killed by being in the wrong place at the wrong time..does that mean I wont go get milk at the store?? It does not...

My motto has always been if worrying about something is going to help go ahead and worry..personally I dont find it helps at all..so our life just moves on..

Jancruz1

[ChatKat in Ca.]

We canceled a trip from Portugal to Rio.

My husband is a nervous traveler. We won't stop traveling but we are going to do it closer to home.

[S2000ap1]

Shame you cancelled Portugal , I presume Lisbon , lovely city . Really interesting.

 

great Hat shop , I purchased a Fedora just for the hell of it ! , the most amazing glove shop for a maximum of 2 people at a time so small but some many good things and the Restuarant in the Botanical gardens a wonderful experience. also spent a week in the hotel that Casino Royal is based on where Fleming was during the war, nice old world hotel good service , the Hotel Palacio.