Possible missing passenger - Liberty

[triptolemus]

Did I miss a link to a video of the fall?

 

No, but the Carnival spokesperson is quoted as saying that the woman climbed onto the rail before falling backwards.

[roothy123]

I really feel bad for this lady and her family. I am not here to speculate on what may have happened, but I am personally struggling to understand how she could have simply fallen overboard.

 

I'm also not sure why there is so much confusion on this thread about Man Overboard systems. I found this interesting article from last year about the state of the industry with respect to MOB systems.

 

http://www.ship-technology.com/features/featuresound-the-alarm-should-man-overboard-detection-tech-be-fitted-on-cruise-ships-4583685/

 

I have sailed Disney a few times and I am aware they have MOB systems on their ships. It seems that in this case nobody knew the lady was missing until several hours later. Successful rescue requires nearly immediate notification someone has entered the water. Understanding that an MOB system can generate false positives, they will never be improved if they don't start getting more widespread use. That's how technology evolves.

 

I'm not worried about me falling overboard but I do like to spend my money with a cruise line that is innovative and at least makes a good attempt at improving such a horrific situation. Maybe if there were more of an outcry from passengers the cruise lines would start doing something. All these new ships ... Do any except the Disney ships have MOB systems?

 

I would like to know the answer to that question as well. For example, Viking Ocean Cruises has 3 new ships and they are a pretty high-tech line. It's possible they have a viable system that alerts, but I have never thought to ask about it.

 

I agree that it's very hard to go overboard by mistake. I've been on 4 different cruise lines and all of them have pretty high railings everywhere, except perhaps on the balcony in the cabins, where they tend to be a little lower. My guess is that she committed suicide, but we may never know for sure.

 

There are websites like Cruise Minus that list MOBs, and unfortunately suicide is not as rare as you might think, although Carnival seems to be one of the lines that has the most. Of course, Carnival also has a lot of ships and carries a lot of passengers, so perhaps it's just a matter of statistics.

 

I'm just glad that I normally cruise on a line that has never had a MOB.

[chengkp75]

Disney is the only line to use an automated video/radar/thermal system. All other lines use a video/thermal recorder that time stamps each image, but does not issue automated warnings.

[Dave994]

It took me exactly 15 seconds to find the document and the relevant section of the Act.

 

 

 

Figure if you're gonna comment on it, you might want to read it? But that's not the American way, is it?

 

 

 

Mr. Walker would do his lazy readers a favor and maybe cite the Act rather than interpreting it for them in alignment with his bias. Ah, but there's a reason he didn't cite the Act, isn't there?

 

 

Not sure. I am Canadian. :)

 

Still doesn't change the fact that all cruise lines should have it.

[Haoie]

I've read all the replies so far. Compelling.

 

 

 

Would love an update from members who were on the cruise after it ends.

[chengkp75]

Not sure. I am Canadian. :)

 

Still doesn't change the fact that all cruise lines should have it.

 

No, it doesn't change your opinion not the fact, that all cruise lines should have it.

 

It also does not apply to ships that do not embark passengers in the US. So, cruises home ported out of Vancouver, for example, have no requirement for any kind of MOB system, let alone an automated one, and unless a port state passes similar legislation, it doesn't apply anywhere else in the world but cruises starting in the US.

[Dave994]

Well, its not the law. And as for changing it, remember, it was not the cruise industry that proposed the wording making the automated MOB systems optional, but one of that industry's biggest opponents, Sen. Rockefeller.

 

 

I understand it's not the law, I just think it should be. If it saves one life then it will be worth it in my mind. If my cruise fare goes up as a result, I am ok with this.

[summersigh]

Just a little perspective on having family with long term mental illness issues is that as a self -protection mechanism, you become numb to the years of threats and acts of self harm. If as a family member try tto intensely monitor the person with mental illness, you, yourself take on their sense of safety, you will both fail and you can become part of their challenge. Trying to live your life at high alert, waiting for that phone call to deal with a situation you can not control, that your assistance may or may not be welcome, that after dozens of threats, partial attempts, that that one time the family member succeeds from either determination or just bad luck and then others want to know where's the family?

 

Thank you for that thoughtful insight. I totally understand what you're saying.

[triptolemus]

Still doesn't change the fact that all cruise lines should have it.

 

And when the shiny new MOB system fails to detect some moron jumping off the ship, we'll move on to something else. What about a giant net around the ship? Like the Golden Gate Bridge. Should only cost Carnival about $80 million to outfit their fleet. Probably $500 million for the industry.

 

Next, the lines can charge pax a Suicide Prevention Convenience Fee? You won't mind paying for that, right? Maybe that'll pay for the net. A few years after, lines will add a Stupid Passenger Lookout Fee. This fee can be used to hire staff to keep people away from the rail.

 

When that doesn't fix stupid, perhaps the ships could be redesigned. A large flat barge type craft where total drop from deck to the water is about 3 feet. Would that be better? Would be hell for those with motion sickness but it may help prevent just one tragic death associated with doing something stupid.

 

When the barge design fails, we can move cruising into... SUBMARINES! That'll save lives, for sure. No one but no one can fall off a friggin' submarine.

 

Or, people can take ownership of their lives and accept personal responsibility. And if they can't do that, maybe they should just stay home. But there's danger there, too. Sticking knives into power outlets and all...

Edited May 15, 2016 by triptolemus

[chengkp75]

I understand it's not the law, I just think it should be. If it saves one life then it will be worth it in my mind. If my cruise fare goes up as a result, I am ok with this.

 

Since Disney is the only line with this system, can they provide data that it has increased their successful recovery rate of overboards, over the older systems? Technology is great, but if it doesn't provide a benefit, why have it?

[Dave994]

No, it doesn't change your opinion not the fact, that all cruise lines should have it.

 

 

 

It also does not apply to ships that do not embark passengers in the US. So, cruises home ported out of Vancouver, for example, have no requirement for any kind of MOB system, let alone an automated one, and unless a port state passes similar legislation, it doesn't apply anywhere else in the world but cruises starting in the US.

 

 

Well aren't you in a mood.

 

Very well, it's my OPINION that all cruise lines regardless of where they home port should have such a system.

[chengkp75]

Well aren't you in a mood.

 

Very well, it's my OPINION that all cruise lines regardless of where they home port should have such a system.

 

Then I suggest that you contact Canadian Coast Guard to request their representatives at the IMO to initiate an international regulation to implement this, as this is the only way this will get accomplished. Then you have to get the majority of maritime nations to agree. Good luck in your endeavors.

[Dave994]

And when the shiny new MOB system fails to detect some moron jumping off the ship, we'll move on to something else. What about a giant net around the ship? Like the Golden Gate Bridge. Should only cost Carnival about $80 million to outfit their fleet. Probably $500 million for the industry.

 

Next, the lines can charge pax a Suicide Prevention Convenience Fee? You won't mind paying for that, right? Maybe that'll pay for the net. A few years after, lines will add a Stupid Passenger Lookout Fee. This fee can be used to hire staff to keep people away from the rail.

 

When that doesn't fix stupid, perhaps the ships could be redesigned. A large flat barge type craft where total drop from deck to the water is about 3 feet. Would that be better? Would be hell for those with motion sickness but it may help prevent just one tragic death associated with doing something stupid.

 

When the barge design fails, we can move cruising into... SUBMARINES! That'll save lives, for sure. No one but no one can fall off a friggin' submarine.

 

Or, people can take ownership of their lives and accept personal responsibility. And if they can't do that, maybe they should just stay home. But there's danger there, too. Sticking knives into power outlets and all...

 

 

Yeah. Ok. That is all going to happen. I am sorry your life is so unfulfilled you had the time to craft that reply.

[Dave994]

Then I suggest that you contact Canadian Coast Guard to request their representatives at the IMO to initiate an international regulation to implement this, as this is the only way this will get accomplished. Then you have to get the majority of maritime nations to agree. Good luck in your endeavors.

 

 

I am tight with Justin. Got it covered [emoji4]

 

And when did thoughts and views on this board equate to stating the fact I had the ability or time to make these things happen. It's a cruise board, where I have opinions on things....plain and simple.

Edited May 15, 2016 by Dave994

[triptolemus]

Yeah. Ok. That is all going to happen. I am sorry your life is so unfulfilled you had the time to craft that reply.

 

Well, if that reply saves just one life, it will have been worth it. Thank you for recognizing my sacrifice.

[oldvato]

IMHO, How sad that a person would be furious about missing a port when someone lost their lives. Just makes me think how uncaring the human race can be.

It's not that they are uncaring. MOst of them worked all year, and now they have free time to go on a cruise, and spend all that money to go have some fun, and then have something happen that will ruin it for them. I'm retired, but I still work during the school year driving a school bus, mainly to stay productive and active. I've been doing it for 8 years now.

 

Right about now, I'm ready for the school year to end, so that I can rest from those screaming kids. It's been a long year, and I'm ready for vacation. We are going on the Liberty in July 2nd, and I hope nothing happens that would ruin my vacation, because I'd be pretty disappointed too.

 

The question becomes was this lady alone? Who in their right mind would sit on the rail, and fall backwards into the water, especially if they are alone? Doesn't make any sense.

Edited May 15, 2016 by oldvato

[almitra]

World News Tonight on right now 5:30 pm CST is talking about it

[luvs2beachit]

You don't simply "fall off" a cruise ship. Hopefully a crime wasn't committed here though, we have no clue yet what happened. I know for myself I wouldn't be out at 2 am presumably without my husband (EVEN if I was on a girls trip). I still feel strongly that cruising is very safe. I have read about most of the missing person cases on cruise ships and the vast majority of the time people were acting irresponsibly. Getting crazy drunk, jumping from one balcony to the next, sleeping with crew members, sleeping with strangers,]or just plain said they were jumping beforehand. There are a handful of suspicious cases where the cruise lines clearly hid info though. With that said, I still feel extremely safe taking my family on cruises-bad things happen everywhere. The media for some odd reason LOVES to roast the cruise industry. Look at the numbers, cruising is statistically safe. We act cautiously as we would on any vacation. I hope they figure out what happened to this poor woman. She has a family and husband. No one has said anything about suicide yet. Oh and the first hand report of the announcement "you are not in trouble, you can come out if you here us" is odd to say the least.

 

Could you provide a bit more detail about how "sleeping with crew members, sleeping with strangers" might lead to someone going overboard?!?!:confused::confused:

[missholly24]

Could you provide a bit more detail about how "sleeping with crew members, sleeping with strangers" might lead to someone going overboard?!?!:confused::confused:

 

A woman on her honeymoon long ago allegedly slept with the casino manager (elevator footage showed them with each other) on her honeymoon after admittedly drinking absinth. Her husband ended up missing from the cruise. A second woman was seen on surveillance cameras making out with a band member from Grenada before she went missing forever. It is thought maybe she ended up in the sex trade. (Grenada heavily involved in sex trade). Ship was docked in Caracao (a place believed to be involved in sex trafficking as well) the day she went missing. She disappeared without a trace it was a very interesting mystery what happened to her and never solved. May not be related, but probably shouldn't be making out with crew members that are strangers.

Edited May 15, 2016 by missholly24

[elliair]

This article was written in 2011, but it's wondering why 165 people have gone missing off of cruise ships. There's all kinds of reasons and one still has the parents of a Disney crew member wondering what happened to her - and the parents are going to sue. She even has a wiki page.

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-2040248/Why-165-people-gone-missing-cruise-ships-recent-years.html

[TxChick]

Not sure if it's been reported here but daily mail has a report that states she was sitting on the railing and fell backwards. Horribly sad, she leaves four kids and a husband. As a parent I understand the need to get away and let loose but this is prime example why people should stick together. I would've hoped someone was sober enough to tell her that was a bad idea.

[Sweet Dutch Girl]

The moralistic unsubstantiated judgments that abound on these boards continue to amaze me...and the consistent rehashing of gossipy tidbits are astounding. Anyone of us may be touched by a tragedy such as this...and, yes, suicide is a tragedy (just ask Shakespeare). We should all remember that "except for the grace of god (or the universe) there go I" and that incidents like what happened on the Liberty are not fodder for our trashy minds...but real life altering situations for those involved. Where lies the milk of human kindness. Obviously not on these boards.

[Dave994]

Not sure if it's been reported here but daily mail has a report that states she was sitting on the railing and fell backwards. Horribly sad, she leaves four kids and a husband. As a parent I understand the need to get away and let loose but this is prime example why people should stick together. I would've hoped someone was sober enough to tell her that was a bad idea.

 

 

Someone linked an article about it.

 

Sad indeed. I can only speculate, but I would assume alcohol would have to be a prime reason for someone sitting like that on the railing. Then again i have seen many a utube video of morons taking a selfie from the edge of a tall building or tower so who can say. Perhaps she was a thrill seeker.

 

Either way it's her family that have to deal with this senseless tragedy.

[Sweet Dutch Girl]

Not sure if it's been reported here but daily mail has a report that states she was sitting on the railing and fell backwards. Horribly sad, she leaves four kids and a husband. As a parent I understand the need to get away and let loose but this is prime example why people should stick together. I would've hoped someone was sober enough to tell her that was a bad idea.

 

If they didn't know she even went overboard until hours later how in the world would anyone know if she was sitting on the railing, drunk, and fell backwards? Besides the Daily Mail is the trashiest gossip rag on the internet.

[elliair]

Not sure if it's been reported here but daily mail has a report that states she was sitting on the railing and fell backwards. Horribly sad, she leaves four kids and a husband. As a parent I understand the need to get away and let loose but this is prime example why people should stick together. I would've hoped someone was sober enough to tell her that was a bad idea.

 

That is stressed out clearly during muster drill that you do not sit on the edge of the railings. I've seen parents sitting their young child on the railing and holding on to them. I think this sets a bad example for the child as the child thinks it's okay to do that. Even adults don't understand the dangers of doing that. Even climbing the radar pole to get a selfie is dangerous as one young college student found out a while back.