Gratuities going up..

[WpgCruise]

I edited the attached for brevity and beg your pardon for the impertinence.

 

Sarcasm Font ON

 

If you continue to use facts, logic and hard verifiable data to support your argument, I'm really not too sure Cruise Critic is the place for you. We are really more comfortable with rumor, speculation, opinions based on messages left in the toast, than the information you provide.

 

Sarcasm Font OFF

 

Seriously, your intelligent fact based arguments go a long way to address the nonsense some love to provide as facts, and please keep providing the good information.

 

Ignorance can only be overcome with education, and as often as it must seem you're beating the drum in the wilderness with no one listening do know many do agree but simply don't have the energy to try and change opinions of people who simply won't try and learn.

 

Actually the gratuities do go to employees. Here is why you can tell. The major cruise lines all list their stock on US stock exchanges. That means that they must follow US accounting rules, even though they are not US companies.

 

So since they are allowing the gratuities to be removed or changed and since they 10q and 10k filings do not reflect and comments about gratuities being included in corporate income, one can be fairly comfortable that the money is in fact being distributed to employees.

[shredie]

Cruiselawnews, isn't really known as being unbiased about the cruise industry I hate to say.

 

Isn't that the site run by the guy who sues cruise lines for a living?

[GUT2407]

Isn't that the site run by the guy who sues cruise lines for a living?

 

I believe so.

[Pierlesscruisers]

Isn't that the site run by the guy who sues cruise lines for a living?

 

Hmm, that sounds like a really unbiased source of info!

 

Tom

[April_2000]

Gut2407 said:

 

Cruiselawnews, isn't really known as being unbiased about the cruise industry I hate to say.

 

Ah... I see. I didn't realise that. I'm somebody who doesn't really approve of auto-tipping (it's a culture thing I guess) and his article appeared to make a reasonable case as to why auto-tipping could actually be a good idea. However I guess his arguments should really be taken with a pinch of salt if he's biased. Thanks for clarifying this.

[floridalover5623]

Very interesting article here:

 

http://www.cruiselawnews.com/2016/05/articles/fraud/carnival-hikes-prepaid-gratuities-but-will-passengers-secretly-remove-tips/

 

I don't normally believe that web site but I think he might have something here.

[RDC1]

I'm sure that if princess wished to include tips in the cruise fare,

Princess or Carnival could come up with some registration-state-of -convenience to handle it without any tax consequences.

 

The company handling the casinos is registered in Panama. Maybe

they could handle tips.

 

As I indicated earlier, they certainly could, but then all of the money that would flow to the crew would be salary with the corresponding tax implications.

[Aus Traveller]

As I indicated earlier, they certainly could, but then all of the money that would flow to the crew would be salary with the corresponding tax implications.

Princess does this on the Australian-based ships. BTW, the crew love it. They know exactly how much money they will be paid each month, and in addition, they get some tips.:)

[RDC1]

Princess does this on the Australian-based ships. BTW, the crew love it. They know exactly how much money they will be paid each month, and in addition, they get some tips.:)

 

Considering that Princess went with that policy to some degree because of the number of people pulling tips in that market, I would expect that the crew would like guaranteed maximum vs a fairly low tip level in that market. Not so sure you would get the same response in the US market where the tipping level is much closer to the max amount.

 

Not sure without checking how much Australian employment law might also come into play with the Australian Corporate structure. That may have impacted the decision as well. I do know that prior to the change cruise line employees hated the Australian based cruises due to the substantial drop they experienced in tips.

[pablo222]

As I indicated earlier, they certainly could, but then all of the money that would flow to the crew would be salary with the corresponding tax implications.

 

Princess has plenty of lawyers.

 

I'm sure they could set up something where princess cruises,

acting only as an agent of "Crew&Cow Tipping, a Panamanian Corporation",

collects a daily service charge....

 

...without any tax implications to the company.

 

If they have any difficulty, they can ask Tim Cook for advice.

 

Personally, I think the real reason they don't want to do it is because...

...if a cruise line bundles a service charge in with the cruise fare, it makes

their cruise look like its more expensive that a cruise line that does not.

Edited September 23, 2016 by pablo222

[Corfe Mixture]

Princess does this on the Australian-based ships. BTW, the crew love it. They know exactly how much money they will be paid each month, and in addition, they get some tips.:)

 

They seem to operated a hybrid system on Australian based ships. Passengers who book and pay in Australia (and presumably also in New Zealand) do not get billed for auto tips, but passengers from the UK and I guess also from North America appear to still get billed for auto gratuities, with this presumably resulting in a difference in the 'headline' price.

 

I say 'seem' to operate a hybrid system as we have an Australian based cruise coming up and I not only received the recent e-mail about increase in gratuities, but I also have the opportunity to pre-pay my gratuities.

[Aus Traveller]

They seem to operated a hybrid system on Australian based ships. Passengers who book and pay in Australia (and presumably also in New Zealand) do not get billed for auto tips, but passengers from the UK and I guess also from North America appear to still get billed for auto gratuities, with this presumably resulting in a difference in the 'headline' price.

 

I say 'seem' to operate a hybrid system as we have an Australian based cruise coming up and I not only received the recent e-mail about increase in gratuities, but I also have the opportunity to pre-pay my gratuities.

Agreed. However, I don't think the recent email you mention and the opportunity to pre-pay gratuities really mean much. I have heard of Aussies getting these emails also, resulting in much confusion when their TA has told them that tips are not required.

 

Having in mind that the service staff do not rely on tips to make a reasonable wage, it is possible for you to adjust your auto-tips and personally hand a gratuity to the staff who help make your trip great.

[pablo222]

The thought did occur to me that these increases, two in one year, are a result of too many people removing their auto tips, thus the rest of us are paying for their greediness.

 

I think this is a huge issue.

 

Most people are fine with paying their fair share of service costs.

 

Less fine with paying for others who don't care to cover their own costs.

 

It actually kind of turns me off to cruising at the moment.

[srpilo]

 

Personally, I think the real reason they don't want to do it is because...

...if a cruise line bundles a service charge in with the cruise fare, it makes

their cruise look like its more expensive that a cruise line that does not.

 

+1

 

Srpilo

[kruisey]

The basic wage the cabin and dining crew receive each month before tips?

Or is that a hush hush secret?

[WupperAV]

I want to know how much they make a month with average tips or better per year. Some work very hard and when we were on Diamond Princess the Barrristas knew you by name the second day, so did wait staff. I feel I should be able to tip according to service not a mandatory % because on RCL we had a sloppy dirty cabin steward. We are generous tippers but don't believe waitstaff in MDR should get 15% of our fare because we don't eat there most of the time.

[yuccaman]

We are generous tippers but don't believe waitstaff in MDR should get 15% of our fare because we don't eat there most of the time.

 

But by virtue of being a passenger, you have a reserved seat and reserved staffer in the MDR, that you are responsible for. If you choose to forgo this it is your option, but you are still responsible for your reserved spot and staffer.

 

Besides:

1) People are still serving you at alternate dining in different ways, and you are responsible for them. You are eating somewhere.

2) If the $3.50 or $4.00 per day that your MDR waiter gets from your $13.50 charged gratuities is 15% of your cruise fare, SEND ME THE NAME OF YOUR TRAVEL AGENT!

[Pierlesscruisers]

But by virtue of being a passenger, you have a reserved seat and reserved staffer in the MDR, that you are responsible for. If you choose to forgo this it is your option, but you are still responsible for your reserved spot and staffer.

 

Besides:

1) People are still serving you at alternate dining in different ways, and you are responsible for them. You are eating somewhere.

2) If the $3.50 or $4.00 per day that your MDR waiter gets from your $13.50 charged gratuities is 15% of your cruise fare, SEND ME THE NAME OF YOUR TRAVEL AGENT!

 

Well said, especially the last 2 points.

 

On a similar vein, I have often wondered how many people who sign up for an assigned dining time remember, or even think to cancel their reservations when they decide to change to anytime dining or go to the Horizon Court to eat. The only thing that really does is possibly cause someone to wait to be seated in that dining room. Forget to cancel a seating, sure that's going to happen, but I wonder how many just blow that off and not do it for some other reason. Hopefully, not often.

 

Tom

[JimmyVWine]

We are generous tippers but don't believe waitstaff in MDR should get 15% of our fare because we don't eat there most of the time.

This is why tips are pooled. Otherwise, if no one ate at the buffet, then the buffet staff would earn no money. Conversely, if on a given cruise, everyone went to the buffet every day, then the MDR servers would earn no money. By pooling tips, everyone earns a wage. The wages earned by the crew should not be dependant on the idiosyncratic dining habits of the passengers. After all, the crew has no control over that.

[SoCal Cruiser78]

...if on a given cruise, everyone went to the buffet every day, then the MDR servers would earn no money...

 

Back in the days when tradition held that you tipped those who served you in cash on the last evening of a cruise, some people would skip the MDR that evening and order room service or go to the buffet to avoid tipping MDR staff. Those who don't want to tip will find a way out of doing so, unfortunately.

Edited October 18, 2016 by SoCal Cruiser78

[SoCal Cruiser78]

...I have often wondered how many people who sign up for an assigned dining time remember, or even think to cancel their reservations when they decide to change to anytime dining or go to the Horizon Court to eat...

 

On Princess, it can be difficult to get through to anyone on the DINE line or in person outside of MDR hours to do so. We try to let our MDR tablemates and the maitre d' know the night before if we know ahead of time that we won't be dining there the next evening.

[pablo222]

We are generous tippers but don't believe waitstaff in MDR should get 15% of our fare because we don't eat there most of the time.

 

Um ... your waiter in the dining room for dinner is often

working in the lido at lunch. That's why all of dining is

in one tip pool.

 

This will obviously go on forever, until princess makes

a change to make the situation fair for all passengers.

 

Currently, those who tip are carrying those who don't.

[GUT2407]

Considering that Princess went with that policy to some degree because of the number of people pulling tips in that market, I would expect that the crew would like guaranteed maximum vs a fairly low tip level in that market. Not so sure you would get the same response in the US market where the tipping level is much closer to the max amount.

 

Not sure without checking how much Australian employment law might also come into play with the Australian Corporate structure. That may have impacted the decision as well. I do know that prior to the change cruise line employees hated the Australian based cruises due to the substantial drop they experienced in tips.

 

Funny, but not correct, they did it because the registered a company here and had to comply with Australian legislation, including full disclosure of costs.

 

If your explanation was correct then the other companies that base ships here for much of the year would have done the same, wouldn't they?

[greenie082756]

We pre pay our gratuities even before we sail now.

IMHO for us, with the increase of gratuities there was a decrease in service.

 

On our last cruise the service was slow and spotty. It was obvious that they were short staffed in the MDR and other areas.

 

Heck the 24 hour International Cafe' wasn't open 24 hours. Ummm...but I was welcomed to help myself to day old pastries on a table outside of the glass case.

What I really wanted was in the glass case, so if I wanted to wait until 6am I could have it then. This was @ 5:30 AM. Okay, I took 2 pastries back to the room and was shocked on how stale tasting they were.

 

Quantity of personnel cutbacks were obvious to a lot of passengers.

 

I just felt this time that Princess, on this cruise, didn't come through. Something was definitely wrong and yes I said so on the questionnaire. :)

[RDC1]

Deleted

Edited October 25, 2016 by RDC1