Tipping on board brittania?

[insanemagnet]

 

The result is those who are willing to pay them subsidise those who don't.

 

The problem is that the cruise line is moving a substantial overhead cost (staff wages) onto customers in a voluntary form, and using guilt to persuade people to pay.

 

The amounts involved are not "tips" but the whole of the wage bill.

 

If P&O asked people to voluntary pay a supplement for the increased price of fuel, where you could opt out if you wanted to, how many would pay?

 

 

 

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[the english lady]

The amounts involved are not "tips" but the whole of the wage bill.

 

Unless you could proof this, I would not think this is true at all.

You have over 1000 crew on ships. Their entire wages bill would not be covered by "tips". Especially as you have so many people happy to say I take auto grats off and do not do anything in envelopes.

I agree that the newer younger type of cruiser they are hoping to get would not be aware of the whole gratuities thing..maybe they need to be much more upfront about it in their advertising and state how much lower it is than on the competition.

[davecttr]

Somebody did post a few months ago why including it in the fare would bring it's own problems.

Not just that the Base price of the cruise would increase

As one assumes that if the tips were included.then the crews wages would rise.so they would pay more tax.

The post I am thinking of went into it in some depth as to why it may not work out so well for everyone if tips were added into cruise fare.

 

Thomson do it and their staff look happy to me so the finance stuff must have been sorted out. :)

[jeanlyon]

Yes agree Dave. My upcoming cruise with Fred has tips included, so it can be done quite easily.

[Morgans]

There are no mysterious lists published, staff do not have to hand in 'extra' tips but still the myths are perpetuated. After 40 + cruises we have been told this on board numerous times and now we tip what we believe is just and fair, sometimes leaving the auto gratuities in place and sometimes removing and tipping individually.

 

Tip what you can afford and tip what you think is fair and deserved. Do not be bullied into worrying unnecessarily - if people want to tip double (ie auto gratuities and extra) let them but remember it is not necessary at all. Do what you feel is correct for you - and what you can afford.

[insanemagnet]

The amounts involved are not "tips" but the whole of the wage bill.

 

Unless you could proof this, I would not think this is true at all.

You have over 1000 crew on ships. Their entire wages bill would not be covered by "tips".

 

My evidence is simple common sense. If the £5.50 per passenger per day does not cover all of the wage bill for the waiting staff and stewards, then it makes an awful big dent in it.

 

How much do you think the staff get paid that it works out as a sensible 'tip' on top of pay and not the bulk of their pay?

 

The charges increased by 37.5% last year. Do you the staff received the whole of that increase without a decrease elsewhere?

 

They are playing on history and guilt for their avoidance scheme to work (an avoidance scheme because they are hiding the real price of the cruise).

 

That is dishonest behaviour, so they shouldn't be surprised that as they exploit their customers to a greater extent, some customers decide not to collude with this charade and choose not to pay an optional charge the cruise line is using to suppress revenue and tax.

 

 

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[CCFC]

There are no mysterious lists published, staff do not have to hand in 'extra' tips but still the myths are perpetuated. After 40 + cruises we have been told this on board numerous times and now we tip what we believe is just and fair, sometimes leaving the auto gratuities in place and sometimes removing and tipping individually.

 

Tip what you can afford and tip what you think is fair and deserved. Do not be bullied into worrying unnecessarily - if people want to tip double (ie auto gratuities and extra) let them but remember it is not necessary at all. Do what you feel is correct for you - and what you can afford.

 

There are lists given to the crew please see my post on the previous page.

 

http://boards.cruisecritic.co.uk/showpost.php?p=51448986&postcount=40

 

From that website which is only concerned with Cruising and law:

 

Earlier this week, a Facebook page called "Complaining Crewship" complained that Carnival passengers were not paying tips and posted about 30 pages of photographed pages showing the names and cabin numbers of Carnival passengers (from an unidentified ship) who had their prepaid tips removed. There were hundreds and hundreds of passengers who removed their tips. Some of these people may have removed the pre-paid gratuities and paid cash but I was left with an unpleasant feeling that they were largely stiffing the crew.

 

http://www.cruiselawnews.com/2016/05/articles/fraud/carnival-hikes-prepaid-gratuities-but-will-passengers-secretly-remove-tips/

 

The Cruiselawnews site is well known for being litigious against cruise companies and doesn't do things by halves. They even have an app for staff to report a claim.

 

The reality of the matter is that Carnival pays crew members like waiters. bartenders and stateroom attendants a small pittance by the cruise line (around $50 a month) and then requires them to work incredibly long hours, relying on tips for the majority of their compensation.

Edited November 1, 2016 by CCFC

[Morgans]

There are no financial lists available to general crew members on P & O or Cunard ships. The example shown is from a Carnival ship and could date back several years when this subject was first discussed, (although the article is relevantly new. )

 

Please read the 'sticky' on the Cunard board for further clarification.

 

If you wish to remove auto tips and tip independently then do so. If you wish to keep auto tips on then do so. Do what you feel is right for you in your circumstances.

Edited November 1, 2016 by Morgans

[insanemagnet]

So you want me to believe hearsay from someone who claims to have heard something from someone some time ago from someone who claimed to be know how things worked some years earlier.

 

And what they heard was what they wanted to hear.

 

Excuse me from not convicting on that evidence, but preferring the photographic evidence that relates to ships within the P&O corporate group.

 

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[mandylennon]

On Freedom dining you can have the same table and waiters each night if availabe. On our last cruise when we gave our cabin number at the desk we asked how come we got the same table each night, and the answer was "we know everything about you sir and try to give you what you want".

 

With regards to tips it is and always has been down to individuals. I'm sure P&O would like to include them on the price and have looked into it. You often see a queue to people at reception when the auto tips go on the bill, perhaps because people have spent their on board credit already. When we first cruised they put them on at the start so you knew what you had left to spend, but now we have spent that before the auto-tips go on.

 

Also it is not up to us to judge whether crew need the tips on top of their wages, some have families some don't, some have to send money home, some don't.

 

At the end of the day, I wouldn't like to do their job, some cabins are left in a terrible state (apologies for my son and his girlfriend, their cabin looked like a bomb had hit).

 

On our last cruise our cabin steward wasn't very friendly and didn't seem to want to chat. We found out on the last day that it was his last day with P&O and that he was going home and had to find work, yes we gave him a little extra.

[Mysticalmother]

We tried Freedom dining for the first time on Oriana this year. The first 2 nights we had a table in a small area (although not actually the same table) with the same waiters. We were so pleased with them and seemed to get on very well with them that we then asked for a table in that area each night, and the guys at the restaurant "check in" said they would see what they could do. They even suggested the best time to arrive for dinner in order to get a table there. Well they did not do very well. We would have certainly given an extra tip to them and the waiters concerned had they managed to get us in that area but they only managed it once more. One of the waiters even came to find us one evening to apologise as he too had asked if we could be seated in their area.

We then had very mediocre service from waiters in other parts of the dining room and on one occasion it was very poor. As a result, unfortunately no additional tips were given... So much for keeping the customer happy.

But I guess that is the risk of freedom dining, which we just have to accept....

Edited November 3, 2016 by Mysticalmother

[Mysticalmother]

On Freedom dining you can have the same table and waiters each night if availabe. On our last cruise when we gave our cabin number at the desk we asked how come we got the same table each night, and the answer was "we know everything about you sir and try to give you what you want".

 

With regards to tips it is and always has been down to individuals. I'm sure P&O would like to include them on the price and have looked into it. You often see a queue to people at reception when the auto tips go on the bill, perhaps because people have spent their on board credit already. When we first cruised they put them on at the start so you knew what you had left to spend, but now we have spent that before the auto-tips go on.

 

Also it is not up to us to judge whether crew need the tips on top of their wages, some have families some don't, some have to send money home, some don't.

 

At the end of the day, I wouldn't like to do their job, some cabins are left in a terrible state (apologies for my son and his girlfriend, their cabin looked like a bomb had hit).

 

On our last cruise our cabin steward wasn't very friendly and didn't seem to want to chat. We found out on the last day that it was his last day with P&O and that he was going home and had to find work, yes we gave him a little extra.

 

posted above.....CC playing up!

Edited November 3, 2016 by Mysticalmother

[cruisefan2012]

I said I wouldnt write any comments on a tipping thread again, but I feel I have to say this.

 

On nearly all tipping threads, poster have commented on a huge queue at the reception desk to remove tips...

 

My point is, perhaps - unless you actually hear them asking to remove tips - Do you not think perhaps people are at reception to ask for help, directions, issues etc.

 

Really bugs me to think that all posters on cruisecritic think that the huge queue at reception is for people to remove tips.

 

To the opening poster, have a great time on Britannia, she is a beautiful ship, at the end of the day its your holiday and you know yourself what you can and cannot afford, if you want to pays tips - great - if like me you dont agree with the whole idea of paying tips dont its your holiday just go and enjoy yourselves

 

I will NOT be made to feel guilty by refusing to pay tips. Its my holiday, I look forward too it from booking to sailing !!

Edited November 3, 2016 by cruisefan2012

[balf]

So P&O would go to the lengths of putting someone on a Caribbean cruise for a fortnight in order to catch a Cabin Steward or waiter who fails to hand in a few pounds?

tra

 

I often wonder how these people who come up with ever more outlandish theories about tipping can imagine Pando supplying the extra staff to run such systems, particularly with the present cutbacks.

 

Spies in the cabin next door. Yeh right.

 

David.

[balf]

who claimed to be know how things worked some years earlier.

 

 

 

 

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So what was the date of the so called passenger list?

 

DAVID.

[insanemagnet]

So what was the date of the so called passenger list?

 

The date is irrelevant.

 

The hearsay claim was that Carnival (of which P&O is obviously one of their brands) has never produced lists of customers removing the automatic gratuities, when the photographic evidence points otherwise.

 

That is not to say that producing such a list is a stupid idea.

 

If the waiters and stewards know the auto gratuities have been removed they will either carry on as normal; or give awful service on revenge. The latter is bad for the cruise company and bad for the staff when the passenger who was going to leave a hefty cash tip now doesn't.

 

Anyway, strays away from the issue which is gratuities to pay, not tip, staff are no better than the captain wandering around deck shaking his hat asking for voluntary contributions to pay for the diesel to get the ship to the next port.

 

 

 

 

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[CCFC]

I will ask my cabin steward when I go in 4 weeks, previous answers to my question have been yes there is a list.

[jeanlyon]

Apart from one cruise when we left them on, we have always removed the auto-tips and tipped the right amount in envelopes. We have never had bad service, in fact we have usually had really good service from both steward and waiters. I have asked two different lots whether they have to hand them in and was told no they don't. So I have given up wondering about it and will continue to do it the way we like.

Edited November 3, 2016 by jeanlyon

[Florry]

Apart from one cruise when we left them on, we have always removed the auto-tips and tipped the right amount in envelopes. We have never had bad service, in fact we have usually had really good service from both steward and waiters. I have asked two different lots whether they have to hand them in and was told no they don't. So I have given up wondering about it and will continue to do it the way we like.

 

 

I would remove it if it weren't for the fact I use freedom dining. Like you I pay in full and often more, putting it in someone's hand is nothing to do with superiority it's about knowing the right person gets what you intend them to receive. Nobody here knows how the questionnaire rating system works in practice, it's all supposition and rumour, not helped by the contradictions which P&O themselves make when you try to find out any level of meaningful detail.

 

 

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[Selbourne]

I find the whole auto gratuity thing to be distasteful. P&O should pay all their staff a decent wage and adjust the cruise cost accordingly. My guess is that a large proportion of those who remove auto gratuities tip less in total which, of course, they are perfectly at liberty to do. I'm certainly not saying that everyone does (I have removed them myself and paid more) but it's a great temptation and we are talking about human nature here and I suspect a large number of people ask for the gratuities to be removed as they are underwhelmed by the service and don't feel that it warrants an outlay of that magnitude.

 

I would prefer that P&O adopted the 'tips included' fare structure that other cruise lines do then nobody can avoid it. I'm sure that a large proportion of us would still tip in addition. I get pleasure from rewarding good service. I also pointedly do not reward poor service and would have no hesitation in insisting that a service charge is removed from a bill at a restaurant at home if I had received really bad service.

 

Yes it would end up costing most of us more, but service levels would massively improve as there would be a real incentive for staff to go above and beyond in the knowledge that they could keep 100% of what they are given. I for one would consider that money well spent.

[wowzz]

To those of you that remove the auto tip, and then tip individuals, how do you tip the waiters in the buffet, the various bar staff, plus (if you have freedom dining) the waiters and bus boys in the MDR?

 

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[Florry]

To those of you that remove the auto tip, and then tip individuals, how do you tip the waiters in the buffet, the various bar staff, plus (if you have freedom dining) the waiters and bus boys in the MDR?

 

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The tips cover: "The main restaurant (waiter, assistant waiter and head waiter) and also to your cabin stewards or butler, who will have looked after you whilst you are with us"

 

If I were removing tips I would tip all of those quoted. As I use freedom dining I am unable to do that fairly which is why I leave tips on.

 

 

 

 

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[terrierjohn]

To those of you that remove the auto tip, and then tip individuals, how do you tip the waiters in the buffet, the various bar staff, plus (if you have freedom dining) the waiters and bus boys in the MDR?

 

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It is my understanding that P&O drinks prices include a gratuity for the waiter, although it is not shown separately as on some cruise lines. I also understand that waiters are rotated around the different bars to ensure they all get a crack at the busy areas.

I also believe that restaurant waiters are rotated between club and freedom MDR's in the same way to even out the extra envelope tipping.

Not sure how they compensate buffet waiters or if they are on a different basic rate, but on a recent cruise one waiter told us he was hoping to switch to the MDR soon and this would mean an increase in his pay.

Of course this might be just hearsay and speculation.;)

[Selbourne]

To those of you that remove the auto tip, and then tip individuals, how do you tip the waiters in the buffet, the various bar staff, plus (if you have freedom dining) the waiters and bus boys in the MDR?

 

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Bar staff and wine waiters receive a commission on what they sell. From comments such as these I don't think this is understood by most passengers. Now you know why so many of them approach you!

 

As for waiters in the buffet, I can't recall a situation where any of them have done anything that would warrant a tip.

 

When we used to do club dining (because there was no choice) and got to know the waiters well and they provided excellent and very personalised service, we used to tip them handsomely. Since we have moved to freedom dining, because it suits us better not to be tied to a set time every day, we have found the main dining room service to be impersonal, rushed and, once again, not worthy of tipping. We use select dining restaurants a lot and tip them very handsomely - because the service is exemplary.

 

In spite of all of this, I still support the view that tips should be built into the price of the holiday so that ALL P&O staff earn a good wage, including those above who do not excel from a service perspective.

 

I would still willingly tip those who give great service over and above, as I do now.

[the english lady]

I would guess that if they upped the prices so they could say all grats are included people would still wonder are they getting a decent wage, so tip on top to make sure.

I know when auto tips first came in I said people would leave the tips in place, but feel they still HAD to tip on top.

Thing is Pando is up against Princess and Celebrity. Unless all 3 change their pricing structure you will not get one of them blinking first.

I am not including Fred or Thomsons in this as having travelled on them I do not consider the product to be on the same level. (please note this is what I think for all those who will jump in and say they are...)

The silly thing is with all the jiggery pokery ie £100's of OBS on Pando (with select fares) that cover grats if not all your drinks, packages on the other 2 lines I would guess there are very few who physically actually pay the grats. If you are on a saver fare you are saving money on the actual cruise price so the difference would easily cover grats.