Auto tips

[CCFC]

If you include tips in the headline price tips would go up 20% straight away due to VAT.

[SteveH2508]

If you include tips in the headline price tips would go up 20% straight away due to VAT.

 

No VAT on cruise fares.

[davecttr]

Theoretically they could go down as there would be a 100% collection rate so less money would provide the same total yield. Anyway P&O rates are low so they could easily add a pound or two.

 

However......

 

There are additional costs involved but his has not stopped other cruise lines rolling tips into the headline price and my experience is their staff are happy and efficient so they must be getting a reasonable remuneration.

 

Maybe the low tip level is part of the strategy to reposition P&O downward in the market to appeal to the C1 and C2 socio economic groups. With a small tip rate removing it altogether would be relatively painless and appeal to the all inclusive market. Meanwhile Cunard is aimed squarely at the A's and B's so will continue to follow American tipping.

[insanemagnet]

Of course people know how auto gratuities are distributed.

 

Do they?

 

Perhaps you could tell us how they are distributed.

 

Are the tips pooled in a tronc or do they go directly to the staff served by those customers. If the latter how does it work with Freedom Dining where you have a number of different waiters.

 

Does the whole of the gratuity charge go to staff on top of wages, or is it treated as a revenue stream and used to pay wages with a portion paid on top as bonuses.

 

When the gratuities doubled over the last three years, did the staff experience a reduction in base salary, or did they see a massive increase in pay.

 

As you know how the gratuity charge is distributed these should be trivial questions to answer.

Edited January 2, 2017 by insanemagnet

[Teddy123]

Do they?

 

Perhaps you could tell us how they are distributed.

 

Are the tips pooled in a tronc or do they go directly to the staff served by those customers. If the latter how does it work with Freedom Dining where you have a number of different waiters.

 

etc.

It's true: nobody knows for sure. So those removing the autotip don't know what the impact is (althought it seems there are some who don't care anyway). The lack of clarity is just another reason for rolling it into the fare.

[Millers]

It's not that people don't care, more that people want more control. Particularly those who don't get lots of obc

 

 

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[terrierjohn]

It's not that people don't care, more that people want more control. Particularly those who don't get lots of obc

 

 

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If you cared at all about the staff who look after you on your cruise, you would exercise control by leaving the auto tip in place.

[Millers]

No, I tip myself. The job of looking after the staff is PandOs not mine.

 

 

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[jeanlyon]

I agree, it's not that folk don't care at all, a tip is what it says it is. Freely given for a job well done, like I tip my hairdresser. If it's compulsory, then it's a service charge and should be done in the price to start with.

[insanemagnet]

If you cared at all about the staff who look after you on your cruise, you would exercise control by leaving the auto tip in place.

That is a reasonable view to hold if it is true that the staff would be adversely impacted by the removal of the gratuities.

 

However what evidence (other than a belief) that this is the case. If P&O treat the gratuities as a revenue stream to pay wages, then removal would have no effect on the staff only P&O shareholders.

 

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[dgs1956]

Do they?

 

Perhaps you could tell us how they are distributed.

 

Are the tips pooled in a tronc or do they go directly to the staff served by those customers. If the latter how does it work with Freedom Dining where you have a number of different waiters.

 

Does the whole of the gratuity charge go to staff on top of wages, or is it treated as a revenue stream and used to pay wages with a portion paid on top as bonuses.

 

When the gratuities doubled over the last three years, did the staff experience a reduction in base salary, or did they see a massive increase in pay.

 

As you know how the gratuity charge is distributed these should be trivial questions to answer.

 

I really don't see the need for your snide and sarcastic response. Instead of adopting this attitude, why don't you look at the P&O website and you will find out for yourself?

[Florry]

Do they?

 

Perhaps you could tell us how they are distributed.

 

Are the tips pooled in a tronc or do they go directly to the staff served by those customers. If the latter how does it work with Freedom Dining where you have a number of different waiters.

 

Does the whole of the gratuity charge go to staff on top of wages, or is it treated as a revenue stream and used to pay wages with a portion paid on top as bonuses.

 

When the gratuities doubled over the last three years, did the staff experience a reduction in base salary, or did they see a massive increase in pay.

 

As you know how the gratuity charge is distributed these should be trivial questions to answer.

 

 

Great questions, I would add:

 

How is the questionnaire linked to gratuities? If you receive a poor service are you subsidising a potentially excellent service received by others?

 

If you eat in the Select dining and tips are included in the surcharge are you technically paying twice?

 

Do non-suite passengers pay Butlers tips?

 

If tips are left on are we subsidising those who remove them?

 

If tips are taken off do staff have to pay them back?

 

Roll it all into the price of the cruise or give more transparency, it is after-all a gratuity. The only reason it is all such a closely guarded secret is that there would be great consternation if answers to all of these questions were freely available.

 

 

 

 

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[SteveH2508]

That is a reasonable view to hold if it is true that the staff would be adversely impacted by the removal of the gratuities.

 

However what evidence (other than a belief) that this is the case. If P&O treat the gratuities as a revenue stream to pay wages, then removal would have no effect on the staff only P&O shareholders.

 

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P&O website states that 100% of the gratuities go to the relevant staff. Whether that is in hard cash or 'crew enrichment programs' is not stated.

[SteveH2508]

Great questions, I would add:

 

How is the questionnaire linked to gratuities? If you receive a poor service are you subsidising a potentially excellent service received by others? Do not understand the point you are making

 

If you eat in the Select dining and tips are included in the surcharge are you technically paying twice? Technically yes, but it is a minimal amount - maybe £1.

 

Do non-suite passengers pay Butlers tips? I should damn well hope not (I doubt it)!

If tips are left on are we subsidising those who remove them? Yes - those who pay nothing anyway.

 

If tips are taken off do staff have to pay them back? No - because they never got them in the first place?

 

Roll it all into the price of the cruise or give more transparency, it is after-all a gratuity. The only reason it is all such a closely guarded secret is that there would be great consternation if answers to all of these questions were freely available.

 

 

 

 

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See my thoughts in red.

[Florry]

Ok, so point 1. It is widely rumoured that tips are proportioned in alignment with the questionnaire results, so staff still get 100% but this is distributed proportionately to their performance (similar to the way an annual bonus is traditionally awarded in other industries). So my point is if you leave tips on but tick poor service you are technically paying a full tip for a poor service, thus subsidising the rest of the 'pool' for proportionate distribution.

 

2. How do you know what proportion of speciality dining supplement is allocated to a tip/increased salary for those staff? If you eat there every night why would you then pay an MDR gratuity?

 

3. It states Butlers tips are included and suite passengers pay the same percentage, so where do you think they come from? I'm guessing the same pool.

 

4. Agreed

 

5. I mean if you then pay them cash, it is widely rumoured they have to pay them back to the pool and there has been conflicting evidence regarding this.

 

Genuinely interested in actual facts - because they are generally lacking [emoji53]

 

 

 

 

 

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[SteveH2508]

Ok, so point 1. It is widely rumoured that tips are proportioned in alignment with the questionnaire results, so staff still get 100% but this is distributed proportionately to their performance (similar to the way an annual bonus is traditionally awarded in other industries). So my point is if you leave tips on but tick poor service you are technically paying a full tip for a poor service, thus subsidising the rest of the 'pool' for proportionate distribution.

 

2. How do you know what proportion of speciality dining supplement is allocated to a tip/increased salary for those staff? If you eat there every night why would you then pay an MDR gratuity?

 

3. It states Butlers tips are included and suite passengers pay the same percentage, so where do you think they come from? I'm guessing the same pool.

 

4. Agreed

 

5. I mean if you then pay them cash, it is widely rumoured they have to pay them back to the pool and there has been conflicting evidence regarding this.

 

Genuinely interested in actual facts - because they are generally lacking [emoji53]

 

 

 

 

 

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Personally speaking, I go on holiday to relax, not to get all humpty-doodle about who gets a couple of quid from my tips. I pay it, and get on with my life and holiday.

 

It really is not worth getting into a tizz about it - pay the auto-gratuity which the cruise line has set and get on with life. It is only a Gin and Tonic a day after all.

 

If it was rolled into the fare it comes out of the same wallet anyway so why all of the angst?:confused:

[Florry]

There isn't really any angst, it's just a discussion about the fact that nobody really knows what happens, that's why everyone should be entitled to make their own decision and people should stop fighting about it IMO

 

 

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[Dom Perignon]

Its a simple fact that P&O withhold tips from those workers who firstly do not hit targets and secondly from those who recieve poor comments on the service cards. For those who throw their money into some virtual tipping pot and hope its shared equally you are sadly mistaken. Like it or lump it the tips are used against the workers as a bargaining tool. Information recieved from a Spanish friend who works onboard a P&O vessel, not pie-in-the-sky make-believe clap-trap.......

[SteveH2508]

Its a simple fact that P&O withhold tips from those workers who firstly do not hit targets and secondly from those who recieve poor comments on the service cards. For those who throw their money into some virtual tipping pot and hope its shared equally you are sadly mistaken. Like it or lump it the tips are used against the workers as a bargaining tool. Information recieved from a Spanish friend who works onboard a P&O vessel, not pie-in-the-sky make-believe clap-trap.......

 

I do not have a problem with the better workers receiving more than the shirkers.

 

Like it or not, performance related pay is a sad fact of life nowadays. There have been numerous studies as to the economic and performance effects of PRP and they are generally zero effect or actually de-incentivising.

 

I know that PRP is a poor motivator, but most managers (and bean counters) do not have the smarts to work towards a better system of motivation.

[Teddy123]

Personally speaking, I go on holiday to relax, not to get all humpty-doodle about who gets a couple of quid from my tips. I pay it, and get on with my life and holiday.

 

It really is not worth getting into a tizz about it - pay the auto-gratuity which the cruise line has set and get on with life. It is only a Gin and Tonic a day after all.

 

If it was rolled into the fare it comes out of the same wallet anyway so why all of the angst?:confused:

I agree. Get on board, save yourself the trouble of doing anything about the charge, forget about the semantics of whether or not it's a tip (with all that entails), view it as part of the holiday cost, and pay it at the end like everything else on board. It's only because it gets labelled a tip and can be removed that people get so upset about it, for one reason or another. And if you want to reward some specific individuals as well, do so.

[Dom Perignon]

I do not have a problem with the better workers receiving more than the shirkers.

 

Like it or not, performance related pay is a sad fact of life nowadays. There have been numerous studies as to the economic and performance effects of PRP and they are generally zero effect or actually de-incentivising.

 

I know that PRP is a poor motivator, but most managers (and bean counters) do not have the smarts to work towards a better system of motivation.

 

Witholding tips from workers for whatever reason is blatant theft to which we will not be taking any part. We tip as we find, end of. For the workers that do not see any of our credit we suggest you find a different job on the ship that will get you a slice of the tip money if not stay put in the country you come from and try to earn a better wage there !! P&O will continue to pay third-world wages all the time their customers are hoodwinked into chipping into this ridiculous scheme.........

[Jennizor]

I have to agree with STEVEH2548 (have I got that right?). We are very fortunate to be able to afford a cruise and that is enhanced by the brilliant service we have had on our 9 cruises. Giving the auto-tip means we don't have to think about tipping like we do at home. We do however give extra to our cabin steward if the service warrants it and it usually does. My husband will also give the occasional tip to bar staff. We then just get on and enjoy our cruise. Life is too short, just wake up and smell the flowers and order another a G & T.

[terrierjohn]

3. It states Butlers tips are included and suite passengers pay the same percentage, so where do you think they come from? I'm guessing the same pool.

Genuinely interested in actual facts - because they are generally lacking [emoji53]

They probably do come from the same pool but there are so few butlers on board that it will hardly make much of a dent in the pool anyway.

[Florry]

They probably do come from the same pool but there are so few butlers on board that it will hardly make much of a dent in the pool anyway.

 

 

True.

 

 

 

 

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[Florry]

I usually just leave the tips on, there has been the odd time I haven't when I feel strongly that I want to distribute according to service and circumstance. I just make it work for me.

 

 

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