Auto tips

[terrierjohn]

I don't want facilities. I want to be on a ship. As for ageing hulls, the first cruise we went on was on the Athena in 2009. She was built in 1939 at the Stockholm and sank the Andria Doria! She was totally refurbished and we had a wonderful time all the way to the Caribbean and back. So yes, I like smaller ships that don't have hoardes of people and aren't like a block of flats. We tried the Azura and hated the crowded feel, the length of time it took to get back on board in a massive queue.

Quote:

Originally Posted by john watson View Post

 

1 small ships - many are longer now than when originally built they have been cut in half and a middle section added

 

Thereby compromising the sail ability in my experience.

 

DAVID.

I don't think I have ever been on a ship which has been lengthened, but it will certainly add extra cabins and passengers as well as additional space on the public decks, however I know nothing about the effect on stability issues.

Unfortunately what it won't do is to improve and modernise the accessibility facilities on the ship, which is why we prefer more modern ships and, unless we switch to the luxury lines, it looks as though these will continue to be bigger.

Which getting back on topic will mean even larger auto gratuity pools.

[peteukmcr]

Thereby compromising the sail ability in my experience.

 

DAVID.

Which ship have you been on that has been lengthened and thus compromised the ability to sail?

 

Quote:

Originally Posted by john watson View Post

 

1 small ships - many are longer now than when originally built they have been cut in half and a middle section added

 

 

I don't think I have ever been on a ship which has been lengthened, but it will certainly add extra cabins and passengers as well as additional space on the public decks, however I know nothing about the effect on stability issues.

Unfortunately what it won't do is to improve and modernise the accessibility facilities on the ship, which is why we prefer more modern ships and, unless we switch to the luxury lines, it looks as though these will continue to be bigger.

Which getting back on topic will mean even larger auto gratuity pools.

I agree as we've sailed on RCI Enchantment of the Seas which was 'stretched' and although much more pool deck space, the additional cabins and thus passengers outweighed the increase in public spaces inside. However, I don't think the ability to sail was compromised.

[davecttr]

Even when a ship is lengthened it still has to comply with the safety inspections so rest assured, it is still safe.

[fred bare]

Well I've tried to read the entirety of this thread but have failed.

So, having only cruised twice before and being new to this forum, what I'd like to know is this.

 

If we choose to have the auto tip removed from our bill on the first morning of our next cruise in order to individually tip our cabin stewards and MDR waiters a greater amount, will they be informed of our decision to opt out or is this confidential and at our discretion as to who we inform, be that PO employees or other passengers?

(We are aware of the differing pay structures of customer facing employees, bar staff and behind the scenes staff).

[wowzz]

If you opt out of auto-tips, any monies you give individual crew members has to be handed over and goes into the general tip 'pool'.

 

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[fred bare]

Interesting.

So if I bung my cabin steward 50 quid as we arrive, if he adheres to PO employee rules he then has to hand this over to be put into a pot shared by all?

[wowzz]

As I understand it, yes.

 

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[daiB]

Interesting.

So if I bung my cabin steward 50 quid as we arrive, if he adheres to PO employee rules he then has to hand this over to be put into a pot shared by all?

 

 

My understanding is that all but a very small % of your auto tip goes to only 3 people. Your waiters (2) and your cabin steward. If you wish to give more than recommended the staff do not have to give over the Extra only the recommended amount.

 

 

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[Malcolm142]

My understanding is that all but a very small % of your auto tip goes to only 3 people. Your waiters (2) and your cabin steward. If you wish to give more than recommended the staff do not have to give over the Extra only the recommended amount.

 

 

But if you are on Freedom dining you would not see the same waiters every night so how would the split be handed over to them?

[daiB]

But if you are on Freedom dining you would not see the same waiters every night so how would the split be handed over to them?

 

 

Well yes that is one reason for auto tipping starting.

 

I have not said what I actually do or made comment on the rights or wrongs of auto tipping or not.

 

 

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[insanemagnet]

Duplicated posting

[insanemagnet]

My understanding is that all but a very small % of your auto tip goes to only 3 people. Your waiters (2) and your cabin steward. If you wish to give more than recommended the staff do not have to give over the Extra only the recommended amount.

 

 

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The only information P&O provide is a carefully worded statement that might lead you to think that but doesn't actually say it.

 

Even if P&O take all the service charges and treat them as a general source of revenue, which is then used to pay staff wages and bonuses, their statement remains true if read in literal terms.

 

Given how many restaurants have been recently caught red handed keeping the service charge to pay wages, P&O's silence is telling.

 

P&O provide no information that indicates the overall remuneration of their staff is reduced or increased depending on whether people pay the service charge.

 

What is clear from staff behaviour is there is a very clear link between the customer survey and any performance bonus they might receive. Although if you use Freedom Dining the waiters there know there is no link between them and the customer survey, so it is only the cabin steward who makes it clear he wants a 10.

 

So you could keep the service charge on because you think the cabin steward is doing a good job, but if all the other cabins he deals with disagree and mark him down, then he gets nothing. So who keeps your service charge?

[daiB]

The only information P&O provide is a carefully worded statement that might lead you to think that but doesn't actually say it.

 

Even if P&O take all the service charges and treat them as a general source of revenue, which is then used to pay staff wages and bonuses, their statement remains true if read in literal terms.

 

Given how many restaurants have been recently caught red handed keeping the service charge to pay wages, P&O's silence is telling.

 

P&O provide no information that indicates the overall remuneration of their staff is reduced or increased depending on whether people pay the service charge.

 

What is clear from staff behaviour is there is a very clear link between the customer survey and any performance bonus they might receive. Although if you use Freedom Dining the waiters there no there is no link between them and the customer survey, so it is only the cabin steward who makes clear he wants a 10.

 

So you could keep the service charge on because you think the cabin steward is doing a good job, but if all the other cabins he deals with disagree and mark him down, then he gets nothing. So where does your service charge go now?

 

 

But we get contrasting information which says that the marks are for P&Os own bonus scheme which has nothing to do with auto tips.

 

 

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[insanemagnet]

But we get contrasting information which says that the marks are for P&Os own bonus scheme which has nothing to do with auto tips.

 

 

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The bonus scheme is funded by the auto tips, as well as the auto tips being used for the wage bill.

[daiB]

The bonus scheme is funded by the auto tips, as well as the auto tips being used for the wage bill.

 

 

Sorry that is not what I have been told by senior staff on more than one occasion.

 

However this all proves, once again, that they should do away with all tipping and put the prices up. Much fairer way all round. That means everyone pays.

 

 

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Edited March 6, 2017 by daiB

[insanemagnet]

Sorry that is not what I have been told by senior staff on more than one occasion.

 

 

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Feel free to believe what you want.

 

I don't believe P&O pay staff a wage funded by fares, plus get the whole of the auto tips, AND get a performance bonus funded out of fares as well.

 

If this was true, then the staff would have received a massive pay increase from the 45% increase in the cost of the auto tips over the last three or four years.

 

I definitely don't believe it because if that was what they were doing they wouldn't be so coy with their statements.

 

And lastly, why on earth would senior staff on board have any idea of the accounting arrangements for funding remuneration. They would know the detail of if a member of staff gets X they get £Y, but not how £Y is funded.

[daiB]

Feel free to believe what you want.

 

I don't believe P&O pay staff a wage funded by fares, plus get the whole of the auto tips, AND get a performance bonus funded out of fares as well.

 

If this was true, then the staff would have received a massive pay increase from the 45% increase in the cost of the auto tips over the last three or four years.

 

I definitely don't believe it because if that was what they were doing they wouldn't be so coy with their statements.

 

And lastly, why on earth would senior staff on board have any idea of the accounting arrangements for funding remuneration. They would know the detail of if a member of staff gets X they get £Y, but not how £Y is funded.

 

 

But you do not know any of this..

 

Therefore I go back to the statement I added to my last post. We must have posted together.

 

 

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[insanemagnet]

But you do not know any of this..

 

And all you have is a vague statement from P&O that is open to interpretation, and information from people who would not be in a position to have that information.

 

Pardon me for being cynical and thinking P&O may have a financial reason for hoping people take a wishful view on where the money goes.

[daiB]

And all you have is a vague statement from P&O that is open to interpretation, and information from people who would not be in a position to have that information.

 

Pardon me for being cynical and thinking P&O may have a financial reason for hoping people take a wishful view on where the money goes.

 

 

And by the looks of your posts you have less information just a distrust of P&O

 

 

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[insanemagnet]

And by the looks of your posts you have less information just a distrust of P&O

 

I agree I have no more information than you, only the statement P&O have on their website -

 

https://ask.pocruises.com/help/PO/life-on-board/gratuity

 

"Please be assured that 100% of the amount goes directly to the crew members who serve you and make your holiday memorable, as a ‘thank you’ and it is hugely appreciated. This includes the main restaurant (waiter, assistant waiter and head waiter) and also to your cabin stewards or butler, who will have looked after you whilst you are with us."

 

 

The statement is clear it is not just the waiters and cabin stewards who benefit, but anyone that "serves you". Quite a wide statement, so what proportion do the waiters and stewards get?

 

It is also distributed as a "thank you". That sounds like it is part of a performance bonus scheme, but your senior officer tells you otherwise. Which is correct?

 

The gratuities have risen by 45% in recent years. Have staff seen a 45% increase without any reduction in base pay, as P&O move costs from the pay bill funded by cruise fares to bonuses funded by the gratuities?

 

It would be really simple for P&O to put a really clear and unambiguous statement on their website, but they don't. You are happy with that, fine. I am more cynical and draw a different conclusion.

[daiB]

I have to say you are consistent in you distrust of the company. I take it you have stopped cruising with them.

 

And that you will agree that all tipping should be stopped and the fares should go up.

 

 

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[insanemagnet]

I have to say you are consistent in you distrust of the company. I take it you have stopped cruising with them.

 

Why on earth would I want to do that?

 

P&O are just engaged in business and not being a friend, the same as every other business out there.

 

Go into any supermarket and this week they will be selling a product at 1/2 price, next week it is full price but 2 for 1. Do I distrust the offers, I would be daft not to. Do I go hungry. Of course not.

 

And that you will agree that all tipping should be stopped and the fares should go up.

 

No. Tipping should remain, but not in the American sense of making up a poor base pay, but rewarding good service when it is deserved. Auto tips, like any service charge, ought to be consigned to the bin.

[daiB]

Interestingly this is the first time you have said that in this whole thread. It is only auto tips you distrust.

 

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[insanemagnet]

Interestingly this is the first time you have said that in this whole thread. It is only auto tips you distrust.

 

I thought that was what this thread was about?

[daiB]

No it's about when Auto tips are taken from your account. That was answered on page one. I was replying to someone asking another question.

 

In fact it was answered in the second post on the thread. That was by John.

 

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