KDam medvac;d twice on 12/4--12/14

[sapper1]

One incident by a rude scooter rider should not override all the others who do need them.

Not good to generalize.

 

We were not generalising about scooter drivers. The concern was over FIRST time scooter drivers on a cruise ship. Generally not a good idea. Experienced drivers should have no problem.

The driver who knocked Lizzie down and sped off did not sound like he knew what he was doing.

[Lizzie68]

One incident by a rude scooter rider should not override all the others who do need them.

Not good to generalize.

So reporting an incident is generalizing? No not at all but a cruise ship is definitely not the place for inexperienced scooter drivers and too crowded for many of them. Some are huge.

 

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[Cruiser Andi]

So reporting an incident is generalizing? No not at all but a cruise ship is definitely not the place for inexperienced scooter drivers and too crowded for many of them. Some are huge.

 

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Your comment was not clear that it was an inexperienced scooter driver. It did come across as a generalization of all scooters and scooter drivers.

 

 

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[Cruiser Andi]

My granny was a very experienced scooter driver. We grew up in Vegas and she could get in and out of the tiniest of spaces. We even put a flag on her scooter to make it easier to find her. However, when she gave one of us grandkids the control of the scooter, we were terrible drivers. She learned quickly that we couldn't be trusted to park her scooter in crowded places because we would run people over. As a kid, it was fun to try and drive but as an adult I see the danger we were to others.

 

 

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[sail7seas]

So reporting an incident is generalizing? No not at all but a cruise ship is definitely not the place for inexperienced scooter drivers and too crowded for many of them. Some are huge.

 

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It is also unclear, IMO, when you say 'some are huge' do youmean the scoooter or the scooter rider, or both?

[Lizzie68]

Your comment was not clear that it was an inexperienced scooter driver. It did come across as a generalization of all scooters and scooter drivers.

 

 

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As you wish. Not about to change one word of the post, though. It is what it is - reporting of an incident and my belief that a crowded cruise ship is no place for scooters. Especially large scooters. If you perceive it as a generalization, so be it.

[Cruiser Andi]

As you wish. Not about to change one word of the post, though. It is what it is - reporting of an incident and my belief that a crowded cruise ship is no place for scooters. Especially large scooters. If you perceive it as a generalization, so be it.

 

 

No scooters at all?

 

 

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[bUU]

If you perceive it as a generalization, so be it.

I don't have much exposure to scooters except those I see around the theme parks in Orlando. Are there scooters of substantially different sizes?

[DaveOKC]

Just back from a 10 day cruise on the Konindsdam and the average age of the cruisers had to be at least 70. There were a number of walkers and scooters and at times they did cause some backups, but really the inconvenience was so minor that I never gave it a second thought (except a couple of times when someone with a scooter tried to squeeze onto a full elevator).

 

I just am thankful that I do not need one (yet) and really do admire people who continue to travel and cruise despite such limitations.

[sapper1]

Your comment was not clear that it was an inexperienced scooter driver. It did come across as a generalization of all scooters and scooter drivers.

 

 

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Experienced scooter drivers know better than to run people down---and that is a generalisation. Do what you want with it.

[sapper1]

You should have seen the guy terrorizing passengers with his Segway on our South Pacific cruise on the Westerdam last spring!! He ignored orders to stop using it on the ship so it was eventually seized by security.

Edited December 19, 2016 by sapper1

[MarBear50]

I was on a celebrity cruise and someone died. The person died on the ship. I wonder what happens if they die in a foreign port? Does that foul everything up with leaving port? Personally I think that is one of the better ways to go.

 

M

[MarBear50]

Sorry to clarify, I meant in town or off the ship.

[Cruiser Andi]

Experienced scooter drivers know better than to run people down---and that is a generalisation. Do what you want with it.

 

 

No need for you to be rude. It was not clear the intent of what was written. That's the problem with the written word sometimes. No need to be so mean.

 

 

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[Cruiser Andi]

Experienced scooter drivers know better than to run people down---and that is a generalisation. Do what you want with it.

 

 

Additionally, experienced scooter drivers can have accidents too. Especially in crowded places. That's why it's called an accident.

 

 

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[sapper1]

Additionally, experienced scooter drivers can have accidents too. Especially in crowded places. That's why it's called an accident.

 

 

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At the incredibly great risk of sounding rude, it would be small comfort to the victim to know they were run over by an experienced driver as opposed to a new driver. Just an accident so end of story.

 

Locally we had an electric wheelchair driver run over and kill an elderly woman when he hit her from behind in the City Market. He was a long time driver so I am glad to hear it was just an accident.

[bUU]

I think the point that previous posts may have been making is that nothing is 100% safe and using absolute safety as the criterion is unreasonable. If it were, driving cars would be banned since sometimes car accidents happen. So the question boils down to what is a reasonable trade-off between safety and enabling those who need mechanical assistance.

[sapper1]

I think the point that previous posts may have been making is that nothing is 100% safe and using absolute safety as the criterion is unreasonable. If it were, driving cars would be banned since sometimes car accidents happen. So the question boils down to what is a reasonable trade-off between safety and enabling those who need mechanical assistance.

 

The difference being that people who maim and kill due to dangerous automobile driving end up charged in court whereas people who injure others through dangerous scooter/wheelchair operation just have accidents. There is a deterrent to driving a car in a reckless manner.

 

We are not talking about unavoidable accidents here. Yes they do happen. We are talking about carelessness and/or inexperience.

Edited December 19, 2016 by sapper1

[kazu]

No need for you to be rude. It was not clear the intent of what was written. That's the problem with the written word sometimes. No need to be so mean.

 

 

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I didn't find that poster's comment rude or mean:confused: They had already stated previously the difficulty they had trying to operate a scooter.

 

While accidents can happen, those that have experience are likely to have fewer accidents than those that are inexperienced. That was how I read the post in question ;)

[bUU]

The difference being that people who maim and kill due to dangerous automobile driving end up charged in court whereas people who injure others through dangerous scooter/wheelchair operation just have accidents. There is a deterrent to driving a car in a reckless manner.

I didn't say anything about "dangerous" or "reckless", and there were no comments earlier in the thread by others excusing any "dangerous" or "reckless" actions.

 

Perhaps some posters were arguing against things that no one advocated.

 

While accidents can happen, those that have experience are likely to have fewer accidents than those that are inexperienced. That was how I read the post in question ;)

That's how I read it as well. Could the confusion stem from the assumption by some posters that all usage must be "dangerous" or "reckless", regardless of the care taken and experience leveraged? Edited December 19, 2016 by bUU

[sapper1]

I didn't say anything about "dangerous" or "reckless", and there were no comments earlier in the thread by others excusing any "dangerous" or "reckless" actions.

 

Perhaps some posters were arguing against things that no one advocated.

 

That's how I read it as well. Could the confusion stem from the assumption by some posters that all usage must be "dangerous" or "reckless", regardless of the care taken and experience leveraged?

 

Deleted

Edited December 19, 2016 by sapper1

[sapper1]

I think the point that previous posts may have been making is that nothing is 100% safe and using absolute safety as the criterion is unreasonable. If it were, driving cars would be banned since sometimes car accidents happen. So the question boils down to what is a reasonable trade-off between safety and enabling those who need mechanical assistance.

 

Further to my post about the wheelchair accident.

 

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/wheelchair-accident-tuplin-market-1.3406191

[RuthC]

Let's be real. Vehicles and pedestrians watching for each other is as much a 2-way street on a cruise ship as it is on a roadway. If I had a dollar for every time I had to stop short while on a scooter because a pedestrian walked right in front of me, it would pay my bar bill.

 

There are more pedestrians who are oblivious to what is around them than there are scooters. Since they are the ones more likely to be hurt in a collision, I would think pedestrians would be even more cautious than scooter drivers should be. As a wise man once told me: A right of way isn't something you have, it's something someone gives you.

[Lizzie68]

Let's be real. Vehicles and pedestrians watching for each other is as much a 2-way street on a cruise ship as it is on a roadway. If I had a dollar for every time I had to stop short while on a scooter because a pedestrian walked right in front of me, it would pay my bar bill.

 

There are more pedestrians who are oblivious to what is around them than there are scooters. Since they are the ones more likely to be hurt in a collision, I would think pedestrians would be even more cautious than scooter drivers should be. As a wise man once told me: A right of way isn't something you have, it's something someone gives you.

 

We've had this go-around before, Ruth, and you cannot assume that because I was hit from behind by a scooter that it was my fault as a pedestrian for not "being cautious" enough or that I walked in front of it. Wrong, totally. But no point in trying to defend myself for being run down by someone who was completely oblivious and inconsiderate of everyone else in their immediate area. I think there is a case to be made for banning those large scooters from a ship, I have seen many mobility-challenged using a much smaller version - and being much more considerate, too. Unfortunately, anyone can hire any size of motor scooter from Special Needs at Sea or some such, without proving that they can use it, while ironically, they will not rent you an electric wheelchair unless you are used to using one.

Now, no way am I going to apologise for being run down by a scooter, you can assess blame all you like but you were not there, you have no idea what happened, and should never make an assumptions.

[RuthC]

We've had this go-around before, Ruth, and you cannot assume that because I was hit from behind by a scooter that it was my fault as a pedestrian for not "being cautious" enough or that I walked in front of it.

I never said it was your fault for being hit. There are poor drivers on the ships, of course, but if there is a collision (or close call) it isn't always the driver's fault. There are walkers who don't have a clue what's going on around them, and are as much a danger to themselves as a scooter driver is.

 

Some people own their scooter, and bring it with them when they travel. People who rent get one based on their weight; if they are heavier they need to rent the larger scooter. There isn't a choice in the matter.

Since the larger scooters cost more to rent, are more difficult to get in the cabin, and take up more space in there, it's unlikely people rent the larger scooter simply because it's larger.

Edited December 19, 2016 by RuthC