Denied boarding -bevare if you hold a previus us visa

[Cruise Junky]

Is it also possible for someone else to apply for the ESTAs on their behalf? I am sure that the OP could have applied for, printed out and then carried to the USA the ESTAs.

 

I would imagine large numbers of adults apply for and print out the ESTA for their spouse/partner.

 

But you don't need a copy of your ESTA to be printed, if states that right on the application. It was the US immigration's problem when they re-entered and they do have the right technology to show they were legally in the US

[RDC1]

The OP did nothing wrong. Are you saying that with standard 10 year passports everyone with an expired visa in it shouldn't be allowed to cruise? When I leave the US they don't stamp my passport (I'm a British citizen living in Canada) and your home country doesn't stamp your passport. NCL needs better access to technology to be making this very expensive decision in an electronic age

 

I am not saying that they should not be allowed to cruise.

 

What I am saying is one can see how the OP ran into a problem with the system. One caused by the transition from the old system to the new electronic process.

 

One of those cases where everyone did exactly what they were supposed to do, and the system failed. The passenger were authorized to enter the US. The cruise line checked for documentation as required for their process.

 

Any number of things would have prevented the problem from occurring. If they had not previously been in the US under student visas. If their home country had stamped their passports, if the US had stamped their passports when they came back in. If they had made another trip that had required their passports to a country and the passports had gotten stamped then. Any documentation that they had been outside of the country after their student VISA's had expired would have prevented the problem.

 

The unknown is if the OP had known to try calling the CBP at the port, could or would the CBP have a way to override NCL or convince them to allow access.

[RDC1]

The OP did nothing wrong. Are you saying that with standard 10 year passports everyone with an expired visa in it shouldn't be allowed to cruise? When I leave the US they don't stamp my passport (I'm a British citizen living in Canada) and your home country doesn't stamp your passport. NCL needs better access to technology to be making this very expensive decision in an electronic age

 

Actually many home countries used to stamp passports upon return. My old passports has stamps from the US on my return. New one does not because the system has changed. They don't now because of the changes in systems. Even then prior to the new electronic approaches, the US certainly would have when they came into the US for the cruise.

[RDC1]

In this case the problem is that with the new Automated Passport Control system the passport is not stamped. Instead the receipt is stamped and that is turned over the CBP. Thus the lack of physical proof. Suspect that cruise lines have not encountered this problem very often. Especially since APC is a relatively system, though it is being used by increasing number of travelers.

[Blondie008]

Sorry for the OP - outrageous !

We are always asked on TA cruises prior to boarding in Europe - to show our printed ESTAs.

However, on cruises departing from USA - we have never been asked by the cruise company to show our Esta - as we have already crossed border control into the USA. (which seems to be the OPs circusmstance).

 

On the subject of ESTA - note, if you renew your passport during the Esta's two year lifetime, you must also purchase a new Esta. Your existing Esta will not be valid.

 

 

Renew your passport - you cannot renew your Esta, you must buy another one - 14$ or whatever it is now. The Esta needs to have tie in with your UK passport number, which on renewal, of course changes.

Cousin got caught out with this one - he was fine, but taken away for nearly an hour, we had completed our TA cruise, ended in Miami - and it was only in Miami that he got pulled for this exact problem. Prior to that, no one noticed the error.

 

OP - did you get sorted out? Sorry got lost amongst all the comments?

[Froggitt]

There is proof and there is "proof". The proof NCL needed was official documentation such as is documented in the passport. CBP didn't have a problem, because they could access their computer system. The cruise line does not have access so they want and needed physical proof such as an entry stamp after the Visa period. Problem is since countries are converting to electronic tracking they do not stamp the passports every time like they used to. So the students did not get stamped when they returned to their home country, nor on readmission to the US.

 

And just as a previous poster could knock up a boarding pass and print it in two minutes, I can knock up an ESTA and print it in two minutes.

 

Presumably thats why the CBP do NOT want physical copies, they are too easy to forge. But it's exactly what NCL want.

[sparks1093]

No you could not, it must be a certified copy. A print out of the image would be considered to be a photocopy and not acceptable.

 

The DHS regulations specify the birth certificate may be the original or copy and yes, photocopies are acceptable. All documents that are presented are verified through a multitude of databases during the cruise and if anything is improper will be discussed with the passenger when the ship returns (the birth certificate is presented not to leave the country, but to return to the country). Many people have had their cruise saved by having a copy of their birth certificate faxed to the port, or by printing a copy that they save on an electronic device). (I did present a photocopy of a BC at boarding/disembarkation for a cruise and no one batted an eye.)

 

As for the OP's plight it is heartening to see that the number of people who will defend NCL no matter what remains the same. It certainly looks like NCL dropped the ball on this one and the OP should pursue this as far as they feasibly can since it appears they did have all of the required information. Of course none of this means that NCL is a bad company, they just made a mistake. Is NCL above making a mistake?

[hawkeyetlse]

Presumably thats why the CBP do NOT want physical copies, they are too easy to forge. But it's exactly what NCL want.

CBP can scan your passport and your entire record of travel to the US comes up. That's why they don't need you to show your ESTA. The check-in agents at the departure port don't have that kind of access. If they say they need to see your ESTA, then they need to see your ESTA. And the easiest way to accomplish this is to print the damn thing out.

 

On our last cruise to the US, they took the paper ESTA somewhere in the back to check its validity. It's better for everyone if you give them a worthless piece of paper to take out of your sight, instead of your precious smartphone/tablet/laptop.

[Froggitt]

Epic TA in October, all they were interested in was that you had a piece of paper saying ESTA at the top. No checking of it at all. Which makes it worthless.

[Jetlagged787]

Sorry for the OP - outrageous !

We are always asked on TA cruises prior to boarding in Europe - to show our printed ESTAs.

However, on cruises departing from USA - we have never been asked by the cruise company to show our Esta - as we have already crossed border control into the USA. (which seems to be the OPs circusmstance).

 

On the subject of ESTA - note, if you renew your passport during the Esta's two year lifetime, you must also purchase a new Esta. Your existing Esta will not be valid.

 

 

Renew your passport - you cannot renew your Esta, you must buy another one - 14$ or whatever it is now. The Esta needs to have tie in with your UK passport number, which on renewal, of course changes.

Cousin got caught out with this one - he was fine, but taken away for nearly an hour, we had completed our TA cruise, ended in Miami - and it was only in Miami that he got pulled for this exact problem. Prior to that, no one noticed the error.

 

OP - did you get sorted out? Sorry got lost amongst all the comments?

 

What an excellent post. Thanks for the heads up re renewals. :)

 

My apologies also to the OP as one of those responsible for slight thread drift.

 

It was asked earlier but I have not seen a reply re the OP''s personal situation. Tomtom70, where did you book this cruise? Was it in the UK either direct with NCL or through a travel agent? If so, you do not have to fight this on your own as you should have ABTA protection. If through a travel agent, you should write a letter addressed to NCL with the basics of your complaint but send this to the agent. They will add a letter of their own and pass both to NCL. There are time limits for an initial response in the form of an acknowledgement and then a formal reply. I cannot remember off hand what they are but 14 and 28 days ring a bell. In the case of a direct booking with NCL, initially send your letter of complaint to their UK office. I think we know which way that will go and then you should send a copy of your original letter and NCL's reply direct to ABTA. This link will take you to the relevant ABTA website page. Please let us know how you get on.

[Froggitt]

As I said, printing out the ESTA for NCL to do "checking" is pointless. If the aim of this "checking" is to keep the US safe, then this process has failed.

 

However I suspect it is NCL's implementation of the process, rather than the process itself.

 

[Tomtom70]

Tomtom70, where did you book this cruise? Was it in the UK either direct with NCL or through a travel agent? If so, you do not have to fight this on your own as you should have ABTA protection. If through a travel agent, you should write a letter addressed to NCL with the basics of your complaint but send this to the agent. They will add a letter of their own and pass both to NCL. There are time limits for an initial response in the form of an acknowledgement and then a formal reply. I cannot remember off hand what they are but 14 and 28 days ring a bell. In the case of a direct booking with NCL, initially send your letter of complaint to their UK office. I think we know which way that will go and then you should send a copy of your original letter and NCL's reply direct to ABTA. This link will take you to the relevant ABTA website page. Please let us know how you get on.

 

 

I booked direct with NCL Continental Europe. So based in Germany ? I will definately go directly through them. I will also check with the local Customer Protection agencies here to see what help they can give if no sucess.

 

Then of course I can also go to the credit card company and claim a reversal of transaction for not getting the merchendise paid for.

 

 

Also: to the printet ESTA - as said earlier: we had them. That did not help with NCL.

[littlelulu01]

We are us citizens with us passports. Daughter has expired student visa in her passport. She's traveled back to Europe and several other continents since returning to the us from year of study abroad. Initially she returned to the us via Flight through Canada. Canada stamped her passport but us never did so I guess if someone was only looking at stamps in a passport you may conclude that she overstayed student visa. She's physically living here in the us but according to passport stamps it currently shows her as being in Europe from a recent trip. We are going on a very expensive two week cruise in 2017 and I'm now concerned about her ability to board the ship. I'm certain she's able to travel without problems back and forth from us to Europe with the expired student visa because she's done it several times since it expired. What does one do when the passport stamps don't reflect where you are and have been? OP - so sorry about your situation. I'd never have given this a second thought had I not read your post.

[Charles4515]

We are us citizens with us passports. Daughter has expired student visa in her passport. She's traveled back to Europe and several other continents since returning to the us from year of study abroad. Initially she returned to the us via Flight through Canada. Canada stamped her passport but us never did so I guess if someone was only looking at stamps in a passport you may conclude that she overstayed student visa. She's physically living here in the us but according to passport stamps it currently shows her as being in Europe from a recent trip. We are going on a very expensive two week cruise in 2017 and I'm now concerned about her ability to board the ship. I'm certain she's able to travel without problems back and forth from us to Europe with the expired student visa because she's done it several times since it expired. What does one do when the passport stamps don't reflect where you are and have been? OP - so sorry about your situation. I'd never have given this a second thought had I not read your post.

 

 

 

If you encounter rigid and ignorant NCL customer service employees it could be an issue. It's was a Catch 22 with the expired student visa for the other person. The only sure thing you could do would be get a new passport. That would get rid of the expired student visa in her passport book.

 

 

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Edited December 31, 2016 by Charles4515

[jints07]

There are always people on the forum that defend the cruise line no matter what. Never understood that mentality....

 

Yes, it is truly bizarre and very difficult to not at least suspect some of them have some kind of motivation to do so, which would be very disappointing. I've never seen folks rally against their own best interests with such vigor as is sometimes displayed here. Consumers should always be skeptical of their service providers. It is what challenges said service providers to improve. Blind loyalty does nothing more than allow the goods and services to suffer.

 

If NCL instituted a pay per flush toilet some here would talk about how they like only paying for their share of flushes! :rolleyes:

 

Ok, derail over. :)

[littlelulu01]

If you encounter rigid and ignorant NCL customer service employees it could be an issue. It's was a Catch 22 with the expired student visa for the other person. The only sure thing you could do would be get a new passport. That would get rid of the expired student visa in her passport book.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

 

I just looked at the rest of my families passports. I have one child's who according to passport stamps is currently in Mexico - has been there several years even though we were only there a week. Husband is currently in Venice and mine has zero stamps in it even though I've been to many countries along with family and went through same passport control lines they did. Only one child with the expired student visa though. What an expense to replace valid passports just to get on a ship. I mean what to you even state as reason for replacing? I don't think its a good idea to lie and say it was lost just to get rid of a student visa. everyone in our family has zero re entry USA stamps on our US passports. I know I've asked for a stamp in the past and been told no.

[Jetlagged787]

I booked direct with NCL Continental Europe. So based in Germany ? I will definately go directly through them. I will also check with the local Customer Protection agencies here to see what help they can give if no sucess.

 

Then of course I can also go to the credit card company and claim a reversal of transaction for not getting the merchendise paid for.

 

 

Also: to the printet ESTA - as said earlier: we had them. That did not help with NCL.

 

I really feel for you all and do hope that this is finally resolved to your total satisfaction. As far as the ESTAs are concerned, as was said earlier, possession of an ESTA only guarantees that you can travel to the US but not necessarily enter. It seems that they prefer to wait until you have spent time and money to travel there before they decide whether you can enter or not.

 

Confirmation can be seen in the first paragraph of your ESTA and you can see that in Froggit's spoof ESTA above. Further, it is stated on the US gov ESTA website in the FAQs:

 

"If your electronic travel authorization is approved, this approval establishes that you are eligible to travel to the United States under the Visa Waiver Program, but does not guarantee that you are admissible to the United States."

 

If it was me making a submission to NCL, it would be based on the fact that you were carrying all required documentation which was shown to the NCL port employee. That same documentation was shown to a CBP Officer the previous day and had allowed entry into the US without question. This proves that there is no issue with the expired student visas, so clearly there would not be an issue when you faced CBP Officers again at the end of your cruise.

 

Surely, NCL staff at the company's European HQ can see that an employee/contractor is at fault and, in my opinion, NCL should be offering a full refund in cash and compensation, probably in the form of credit towards a future cruise.

[Charles4515]

I just looked at the rest of my families passports. I have one child's who according to passport stamps is currently in Mexico - has been there several years even though we were only there a week. Husband is currently in Venice and mine has zero stamps in it even though I've been to many countries along with family and went through same passport control lines they did. Only one child with the expired student visa though. What an expense to replace valid passports just to get on a ship. I mean what to you even state as reason for replacing? I don't think its a good idea to lie and say it was lost just to get rid of a student visa. everyone in our family has zero re entry USA stamps on our US passports. I know I've asked for a stamp in the past and been told no.

 

 

 

You don't have to give a reason. Passports can be renewed at any time. They don't care. They won't ask. Don't claim it was lost. Send the old one in with the renewal. It is just an added expense. I am not saying you should do that. Only that it is the only sure way I can think of to not have the worry of the expired visa.

 

 

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[littlelulu01]

You don't have to give a reason. Passports can be renewed at any time. They don't care. They won't ask. Don't claim it was lost. Send the old one in with the renewal. It is just an added expense. I am not saying you should do that. Only that it is the only sure way I can think of to not have the worry of the expired visa.

 

 

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Sorry. I didn't know you could renew a valid current passport. I guess it's worth the $ to get rid of the student visa. Does seem so strange that what is good enough for travel to other countries isn't good enough for ncl.

[RDC1]

We are us citizens with us passports. Daughter has expired student visa in her passport. She's traveled back to Europe and several other continents since returning to the us from year of study abroad. Initially she returned to the us via Flight through Canada. Canada stamped her passport but us never did so I guess if someone was only looking at stamps in a passport you may conclude that she overstayed student visa. She's physically living here in the us but according to passport stamps it currently shows her as being in Europe from a recent trip. We are going on a very expensive two week cruise in 2017 and I'm now concerned about her ability to board the ship. I'm certain she's able to travel without problems back and forth from us to Europe with the expired student visa because she's done it several times since it expired. What does one do when the passport stamps don't reflect where you are and have been? OP - so sorry about your situation. I'd never have given this a second thought had I not read your post.

 

Where does she have the student visa from? I assume from a country in Europe. If so then not an issue since she has a stamp from Canada afterm her student visa. That shows that she left Europe. If your cruise is from the US doesn't matter anyway. If it is from Europe just request the passport get stamped when you fly into Europe if you have concerns.

[littlelulu01]

Where does she have the student visa from? I assume from a country in Europe. If so then not an issue since she has a stamp from Canada afterm her student visa. That shows that she left Europe. If your cruise is from the US doesn't matter anyway. If it is from Europe just request the passport get stamped when you fly into Europe if you have concerns.

 

Expired Student visa from Italy. I just called her and had her check passport. Canada never stamped it upon return. They pulled her out at customs and it took a while for her to get interviewed upon Canada entry so I assumed it was stamped. So she has a US valid passport that according to just the stamps shows the visa and no Italy exit. The passport is fine to enter countries and she's had no problem doing so since student visa expired. Cruise is out of Southampton.

[Charles4515]

Expired Student visa from Italy. I just called her and had her check passport. Canada never stamped it upon return. They pulled her out at customs and it took a while for her to get interviewed upon Canada entry so I assumed it was stamped. So she has a US valid passport that according to just the stamps shows the visa and no Italy exit. The passport is fine to enter countries and she's had no problem doing so since student visa expired. Cruise is out of Southampton.

 

 

 

I don't think they are going to care about an expired Italian Student visa at Southampton. Where does the cruise end? Your situation is different than the OP. They had an expired US student visa and were on a round trip cruise out of the US. NCL is concerned they overstayed their US visa and didn't leave the U.S. You won't even be getting visas to enter the UK for your cruise.

 

 

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Edited December 31, 2016 by Charles4515

[Tomtom70]

I really feel for you all and do hope that this is finally resolved to your total satisfaction. As far as the ESTAs are concerned, as was said earlier, possession of an ESTA only guarantees that you can travel to the US but not necessarily enter. It seems that they prefer to wait until you have spent time and money to travel there before they decide whether you can enter or not..

 

Just to be clear again: Everyone was allowed entry on their ESTA by CBP coming in via flight the day before. So this is not the problem. It is just NCL that has its own interpretation....

[june123]

tomtom70

i`m so sorry this happened to you and i`ve been following this tread the last few days .

whenever i have entered the us under the esta i have had my passport stamped on entry with a date at the bottom which is when the 90 days will be up . i have checked my husbands passport and it`s the same . Surly IF THEY ENTERED with an esta their passports would have been stamped on entry . this would be the proof they needed to show they hadn`t remained in the us on an expired visa .

[Jetlagged787]

Just to be clear again: Everyone was allowed entry on their ESTA by CBP coming in via flight the day before. So this is not the problem. It is just NCL that has its own interpretation....

 

Yes, I have understood that from the beginning and totally agree with you that this is an NCL problem. Hopefully, you will be contacting NCL Europe as soon as possible and we will all be very interested in the outcome.