Canadian mom on cruise jailed in Bahamas, mom of 15 years old called police after ...

[Lido_Deck]

The area is a common area and is not just a "bar"! You can be 5 years old and be in that area! There is a pool table and dart boards and video games and bowling all within feet of the bar! As long as he was not physically sitting at the bar everyone is okay to be in the common area.

 

 

 

 

 

But they were dancing and none of those areas have a dance floor.

[beerman2]

The area is a common area and is not just a "bar"! You can be 5 years old and be in that area! There is a pool table and dart boards and video games and bowling all within feet of the bar! As long as he was not physically sitting at the bar everyone is okay to be in the common area.

 

 

 

 

 

This supposedly happened in the Casino, not O'Sheehans.

[Emilie]

If any of you feel generous and want to help Karine Gagne, her father set up a crowdfunding account here: https://www.onedollargift.com/ca-fr/Reve-aider-ma-fille-emprisonne-a-tort-au-bahamas-16783

 

I know we all agree she DID commit a crime according to the Bahamian law (if it's true they had sex), but I personally think she doesn't deserve to be in jail.

 

Her case will be heard in court on February 3rd.

Edited January 23, 2017 by Emilie

[Two Wheels Only]

If any of you feel generous and want to help Karine Gagne, her father set up a crowdfunding account here

The father and the mother need to get their stories in sync. Nowhere on the father's page is the word restroom mentioned while the mother (Chantale Auclair) is telling anyone who will listen that "one thing led to another" and the pair ended up "having sex in the bar's bathroom."

 

Also, according to a CA newspaper article...

 

"Karine Gagne was first placed in an unhealthy prison before being transferred to Nassau, in a cell with more appropriate sanitary conditions" (using Google translate since the article is in French)

 

The father's page doesn't mention that Gagne has been transferred to a better cell. It only mentions the bad one as "currently in jail in a room where everyone defecates in a corner.." (also Google translate)

 

Edited January 23, 2017 by Two Wheels Only

[SuiteCruiser]

I was 6'1 at 13 YO, and am female. My kids were well over 6'3 at age 15 and are 6'10 and 6'8 so far, so I totally get the height and age issues. Everyone always treated my kids as older because they are taller.

 

I know several of my friends were having sex even as young as 12, which is so scary to think of now. When my friends were having sex at age 15 with their 18 year old boyfriends, it was consensual and definitely the idea of someone going to jail for it would be unfair. Back then the legal age of consent was 14, so it was totally legal.

 

It is a bit boggling that if he'd had his 16th birthday there would be no issue. Consent as a legal term doesn't align with consent as being agreeable to in this case at all.

Edited January 23, 2017 by SuiteCruiser

[zqvol]

This web site here has an interesting view on the case.

 

http://www.cruiselawnews.com/2017/01/articles/caribbean-islands/arrested-in-the-bahamas-cruise-passenger-in-jail-for-statutory-rape-of-15-yearold-boy/

 

They basically say that other rape cases have gone unprosecuted and were dropped and that is may be just all political and she is just a pawn.

 

I would be willing to wager that this one goes away. The young man and his family are not going back to the Bahamas for a trial, at their own expense, and that is the end of the story.

[tmilak]

This supposedly happened in the Casino, not O'Sheehans.

 

And on the SKY which has no O'Sheehans.

[Orleanscruiser]

Did the moth r walk in on the, having sex? Did the kid brag to his mother that they had sex? The only way the mother knew was if the kid told his mom. Why would he do that? There's more to this than is in the story

 

A 23-year-old Canadian mother-of-three is behind bars after she allegedly had sex in the bathroom with a 15-year-old on a cruise in the Bahamas.

Karine Gagne was on the Norwegian Cruise Line ship with her co-workers at a company that sells adult-themed products when she met the teen at a bar and casino area on the boat.

Shortly after meeting the teen, who was reportedly a 6ft 1in American with a beard, Gagne allegedly had sex with him in the bathroom.

The teen's mother was present at the bar when she saw her son exit the bathroom with Gagne and immediately called police,

 

The American teen reportedly pleaded for his mother not to report Gagne to authorities.

 

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4140898/Canadian-mom-allegedly-sex-15-year-old-cruise.html#ixzz4WeANQMgY

Follow us: @MailOnline on Twitter | DailyMail on Facebook

Edited January 24, 2017 by Orleanscruiser

[fshagan]

I would be willing to wager that this one goes away. The young man and his family are not going back to the Bahamas for a trial, at their own expense, and that is the end of the story.

 

It's a criminal case. I don't know about Bahamian law, but in most US states you do not have to have the victim present to prosecute the crime, especially one that is "statutory" where the only facts that need to be proven are that the victim was underaged. That can be stipulated from the record.

 

We would never get a murder conviction if the victim had to be in the courtroom.

[triptolemus]

It's a criminal case. I don't know about Bahamian law, but in most US states you do not have to have the victim present to prosecute the crime, especially one that is "statutory" where the only facts that need to be proven are that the victim was underaged. That can be stipulated from the record.

 

We would never get a murder conviction if the victim had to be in the courtroom.

 

No, but you do need witnesses. The young man and mom would be witnesses.

 

The victim being underaged is certainly not the only fact which needs to be proven in this case.

 

Anyway, mom seeing homeboy come out of the restroom with the woman proves nothing other than the fact that they came out of the bathroom together.

Edited January 24, 2017 by triptolemus

[Two Wheels Only]

I read the following in an article...

 

The arraignment required the aid of an interpreter as Gagne reportedly did not speak English. - LINK

 

....so that makes me wonder (if true)

 

a) can the 15 year-old speak French?

b) is she faking not understanding the language as part of her defense?

c) maybe she really can't speak English

 

Gagne’s next Magistrate Court appearance is scheduled for February 3 where it is expected that she will have her matter transferred to the Supreme Court. - same source as above.

 

As for witnesses, Gagne may have been her own worst enemy. If she couldn't keep her mouth shut (no pun :p ) and said that "I thought he was 18..." and admitted that she had sex (anal, vaginal, or oral), what she said could be used against her.

 

We don't know who said what and to whom. All we are hearing/reading is from others who were not in the restroom. ANYTHING is possible at this point.

[GUT2407]

It's a criminal case. I don't know about Bahamian law, but in most US states you do not have to have the victim present to prosecute the crime, especially one that is "statutory" where the only facts that need to be proven are that the victim was underaged. That can be stipulated from the record.

 

We would never get a murder conviction if the victim had to be in the courtroom.

 

Don't they need to prove that some sort of assault (sexual presumably) took place.

[Lido_Deck]

Don't they need to prove that some sort of assault (sexual presumably) took place.

 

Yes, which will be difficult if the perceived victim does not return to the Bahamas to testify, but the woman remains in jail until everyone maneuvers around.

[Lookingforfacts]

It's not that complicated. The "victim" is under 16. It sure sounds like the 23 year old's initial statement indicated the kid was 18 and agreed to sex. If so the kids testimony isn't needed. They have a confession. If not they can run a DNA test on bodily fluids in and around her body. Definition of sex is far broader then what was used by a former US President. Again the kids testimony isn't needed.

 

Two wheels---you don't need to speak fluent English to order a drink or proposition a fellow passenger. You certainly need an interpreter if you're going to trial.

 

I guess I have a double standard. My first impulse is to think the kid "got lucky". The 23 year old thought she was having sex with an 18 year old. Legally she's wrong but my first thought was his mother should have let it slide.

 

I'd probably have a different opinion if it was a 15 year old girl. Who was drinking with a 23 year old man and then had sex in a bathroom.

 

There is no evidence the kid was drinking. The source is the mother of the "rapist". She wasn't on the ship and has no first hand knowledge.

 

Everyone on the Sky drinks free. Do the bartenders ask to see, or swipe, cards?

[rigs32]

It's not that complicated. The "victim" is under 16. It sure sounds like the 23 year old's initial statement indicated the kid was 18 and agreed to sex. If so the kids testimony isn't needed. They have a confession. If not they can run a DNA test on bodily fluids in and around her body. Definition of sex is far broader then what was used by a former US President. Again the kids testimony isn't needed.

 

Kinda depends on what the law is in the Bahamas.

 

My knowledge is based on NY law, so YMMV. A confession must be corroborated. Two people walking out of a bathroom may or may not be enough. There are often various charges for various "acts", so how do you prove that the specific act charged is the act that occurred? This would be a really hard case to prove without the victim unless someone else watched or a physical exam was forced upon the defendant which, by now, is way too late.

 

The law is often black and white - doesn't matter how old you think someone is or how old they tell you they are. I often don't feel bad for those who should have known better. In a case like this, regardless of gender, if you meet someone in an 18+ area that is drinking alcohol (18+), and they tell you they are 18+, it's a reasonable assumption that they are 18+. 1 out of 3? Maybe different, but you have all three here, plus his height.

[Lookingforfacts]

Dude...You've watched too many episode of CSI and Law and Order SVU. We are talking about the Bahamas, here. And they have no evidence or witnesses.

You can't have it both ways. Assume US type of trial and DNA evidence will make for a quick conviction. Assume Bahamas trial and statements made by kid and "rapist" to the police will make for a quick conviction.

 

Hopefully she can get a good enough lawyer to negotiate some kind of deal.

[$hip$hape]

You can't have it both ways. Assume US type of trial and DNA evidence will make for a quick conviction.

Assume Bahamas trial and statements made by kid and "rapist" to the police will make for a quick conviction.

 

Hopefully she can get a good enough lawyer to negotiate some kind of deal.

 

A crime of passion?

 

"But they were dancing, and none of those (NCL) areas have a dance floor?"

 

Why was this post deleted?

Edited January 24, 2017 by $hip$hape

[MizDemeanor]

Does anyone know what ship this took place on?

[ComfyCruiser]

While some posters seem to be arguing about morals: right/wrong/shared

Others are arguing legality: guilty/not guilty

Kipling said that "never the twain shall meet" and I totally agree.

For the two primary parties involved I would vote morally shared but legally guilty on the part of the older woman.

Not sure how I would judge NCL's responsibility.

[Lido_Deck]

You can't have it both ways. Assume US type of trial and DNA evidence will make for a quick conviction. Assume Bahamas trial and statements made by kid and "rapist" to the police will make for a quick conviction.

 

Hopefully she can get a good enough lawyer to negotiate some kind of deal.

 

Never mind. :confused:

[$hip$hape]

While some posters seem to be arguing about morals: right/wrong/shared

Others are arguing legality: guilty/not guilty

Kipling said that "never the twain shall meet" and I totally agree.

For the two primary parties involved I would vote morally shared but legally guilty on the part of the older woman.

Not sure how I would judge NCL's responsibility.

How wonderful, as a 16 year old male, I would have liked to blame NCL for this memorable cruise.:)

[GUT2407]

Yes, which will be difficult if the perceived victim does not return to the Bahamas to testify, but the woman remains in jail until everyone maneuvers around.

 

I know we are talking specifically about the Bahamas here, but it's the biggest problem I see with all the people who complain about bail laws. I doubt many people realise how many charges ended up being dismissed.

[blackwing]

The law is the law, so this 23 year old woman is likely guilty. However, we need more facts. Seems to me that the reason why she got arrested is because the 15 year old boy's mom is all offended that someone had sex with her precious boy.

 

I think this mom needs a wake up call... it's probably happening all the time at home. She just doesn't see it. He says he's going out with his friends. Probably not what he's doing.

 

Doesn't excuse what the 23 year old woman did, but just sayin'.

[luvcruzing]

Does anyone know what ship this took place on?

 

According to Cruise Law News, cruise schedules indicate it was the Norwegian Sky.

[punkincc]

 

Doesn't excuse what the 23 year old woman did, but just sayin'.

 

 

And what exactly did this 23 year old woman do?

 

She apparently had ( what would have been ) consensual sex with a person she thought was another adult. She, as far as we know, had no idea this person was a minor, and why would she? He was 6 ft tall, with full beard, in a casino bar where no one should be underage, and he reportedly told her he was 19. Consensual sex between two adults is not illegal, and this is what she thought was occurring. The only one who had knowledge that this was not the actual situation was the minor, and his mother.

 

It's not like she knew he was a minor and pursued him anyway. And by the way, he could totally been the agressive one. I doubt she dragged him into the bathroom. And yes, I know minors can't legally consent. But she had no idea he was a minor.

 

And I can't speak highly enough about Mom, who knowingly put her adult looking minor son into an adult situation, and then is surprised when adult things actually happen as a result. But of course, Mom is not to blame at all, it is totally the fault of this brazen predator who should have somehow known she was dealing with a minor. Perhaps someone needs to speak to the Child Welfare department in their hometown about opening an investigation into her rather dangerous parenting style, and get that kid somewhere he can't do anymore damage to himself and others.