electrical power/surge protection

[dieselmama]

I keep reading elsewhere that surge protectors are not allowed, however when I wrote to Princess regarding our need for electricity and my concern for my son's expensive medical equipment I have an email that specifically states we may bring a power strip with a surge protector on board with us (we are staying in a HA stateroom). They even sent a photo of what was acceptable. Found the exact item on amazon...

 

I plan on bringing the email with me as proof that I was told it was acceptable. Any thoughts on this or suggestions? We have several items we need to plug in (his bipap, oxygen concentrator, feeding pumps, and scooter, not to mention recharging camera batteries, etc!)

 

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00PBWV6AU/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_nS_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=I3Y48LU3S9FR&coliid=I3DE3G073133O1&psc=1

[Essiesmom]

having a letter from someone at Princess who doesn't know ship engineering will not help you when/if they confiscate it. We have highly qualified/experienced professionals here on CC who have posted numerous times why surge suppression is not necessary, indeed dangerous on a ship. Certainly bring it if you feel you will need it for a hotel before of after the cruise...EM

[xxoocruiser]

As far as the general cruising population is concerned extension cords and surge protectors are not allowed. Being it's necessary for medical reasons most cruise lines will approve it provided you only bring on board the one that cruise line has pre-approve das is what Princess has done. Any other model surge protector than the one Princess has told you to bring will be confiscated.

Edited January 22, 2017 by xxoocruiser

[dieselmama]

having a letter from someone at Princess who doesn't know ship engineering will not help you when/if they confiscate it. We have highly qualified/experienced professionals here on CC who have posted numerous times why surge suppression is not necessary, indeed dangerous on a ship. Certainly bring it if you feel you will need it for a hotel before of after the cruise...EM

 

And that is my concern. I have read the posts from the professionals on CC and also felt it appropriate to contact the access office at Princess. I would assume the access office would know what is and is not permissible/appropriate/safe in the HA state rooms... perhaps those are set up differently than the typical state rooms? And yes, we are doing a cruise tour so we will need access before and after as well. I am not trying to argue with you, but it did seem to me that the access office should have the appropriate information for the HA staterooms.

 

Especially having seen recent postings here and in other locations where hair dryers and other electric appliances have caught fire when plugged in to the ship's electrical system, my concern seems valid when my son's lungs are dependent on his bipap and oxygen.

 

Just trying to cover our bases.... maybe I should bring both a surge and a non surge and then talk to the engineer on board the ship when we board.

[chengkp75]

I would not necessarily rely on an answer to a technical question from even the special needs department of any cruise line. I would ask that any proof that a surge protected device is permitted be from the line's legal department (for insurance reasons), and the technical department.

 

The problem is not with the wiring in the cabins, whether HC or not, it is a basic design problem with consumer surge protection devices. Your surge protector can be operating 100% correctly, but when a lighting fixture on the pool deck gets water inside and goes to ground, this ground current can reverse voltage your surge protector, which it is not designed to handle, since this cannot happen on shore, and the semi-conductors can fail and melt the power strip. So, having done everything as correctly as you can (except for using a surge protector), a condition totally out of your control can cause the surge protector to catch fire.

 

The reports I believe you have seen about hair dryers catching on fire, are caused by two things, neither of which are the result of the ship's wiring. They either have hair caught in the heating element, or someone has plugged a 220v hair dryer into a 110v outlet, which allows double the current to flow, causing the dryer to overheat.

 

All other appliances that have been reported as catching fire when plugged into the ship's power will be from voltage mismatching (110v into 220v, or vice versa).

 

And appliances overheating and catching fire are caused by excessive current, which a surge protector does not protect against. The usual damage caused by excessive voltage, which is what a surge protector guards against are blown transformers and circuit boards in your appliances, which stops them from working, but generally happen in such a short time frame for the component to burn "open" and no longer allow current to flow, that there is very little heat generated.

 

Surge protection protects your son's appliances from large voltage spikes you get onshore from failed power line transformers and lightning strikes. Ships don't use the same type of oil filled transformers that you see on power poles (which reduce the utility voltage from 12,000 volts directly to the 240/120v supply to your house), and also tend to step the voltage down in series of transformers, so the most your cabin would see from a failed transformer (never seen one in 40 years, but the power pole transformers blow near our house all the time) would be 480 volts, typically below the "clamping voltage", or level where the surge protector starts to dump voltage, of the surge protector. As for lightning, the different grounding system used on ships, that makes surge protectors dangerous, also protects the electrical system from lightning strikes. A ship hit by lightning (and I've been on several), will simply pass the lightning's power through the hull to the sea. Since the electrical system is isolated from the hull, no power from the lightning (several hundred thousand volts) will enter the electrical system. I have never had any electrical system, either power or electronic, fail onboard a ship struck by lightning. The only casualties are the radio equipment, which are damaged by the lightning entering the antennas and damaging the radio.

 

Note that none of the ship's own equipment is surge protected, even such critical systems as the engine room automation that keeps the lights on and the propellers turning, nor the navigational equipment on the bridge, nor any safety or lifesaving equipment required onboard.

[dieselmama]

I would not necessarily rely on an answer to a technical question from even the special needs department of any cruise line. I would ask that any proof that a surge protected device is permitted be from the line's legal department (for insurance reasons), and the technical department.

 

The problem is not with the wiring in the cabins, whether HC or not, it is a basic design problem with consumer surge protection devices. Your surge protector can be operating 100% correctly, but when a lighting fixture on the pool deck gets water inside and goes to ground, this ground current can reverse voltage your surge protector, which it is not designed to handle, since this cannot happen on shore, and the semi-conductors can fail and melt the power strip. So, having done everything as correctly as you can (except for using a surge protector), a condition totally out of your control can cause the surge protector to catch fire.

 

The reports I believe you have seen about hair dryers catching on fire, are caused by two things, neither of which are the result of the ship's wiring. They either have hair caught in the heating element, or someone has plugged a 220v hair dryer into a 110v outlet, which allows double the current to flow, causing the dryer to overheat.

 

All other appliances that have been reported as catching fire when plugged into the ship's power will be from voltage mismatching (110v into 220v, or vice versa).

 

And appliances overheating and catching fire are caused by excessive current, which a surge protector does not protect against. The usual damage caused by excessive voltage, which is what a surge protector guards against are blown transformers and circuit boards in your appliances, which stops them from working, but generally happen in such a short time frame for the component to burn "open" and no longer allow current to flow, that there is very little heat generated.

 

Surge protection protects your son's appliances from large voltage spikes you get onshore from failed power line transformers and lightning strikes. Ships don't use the same type of oil filled transformers that you see on power poles (which reduce the utility voltage from 12,000 volts directly to the 240/120v supply to your house), and also tend to step the voltage down in series of transformers, so the most your cabin would see from a failed transformer (never seen one in 40 years, but the power pole transformers blow near our house all the time) would be 480 volts, typically below the "clamping voltage", or level where the surge protector starts to dump voltage, of the surge protector. As for lightning, the different grounding system used on ships, that makes surge protectors dangerous, also protects the electrical system from lightning strikes. A ship hit by lightning (and I've been on several), will simply pass the lightning's power through the hull to the sea. Since the electrical system is isolated from the hull, no power from the lightning (several hundred thousand volts) will enter the electrical system. I have never had any electrical system, either power or electronic, fail onboard a ship struck by lightning. The only casualties are the radio equipment, which are damaged by the lightning entering the antennas and damaging the radio.

 

Note that none of the ship's own equipment is surge protected, even such critical systems as the engine room automation that keeps the lights on and the propellers turning, nor the navigational equipment on the bridge, nor any safety or lifesaving equipment required onboard.

 

THIS is what I was looking for! Thank you so much! Sounds like we should definitely plan on bringing both kinds of electrical strips with us, one for on ship and one for the hotels off the ship. I appreciate your kind and thorough explanation...

[chengkp75]

THIS is what I was looking for! Thank you so much! Sounds like we should definitely plan on bringing both kinds of electrical strips with us, one for on ship and one for the hotels off the ship. I appreciate your kind and thorough explanation...

 

What I would suggest, to save room, is to bring a power strip without surge protection, for use both on shore and onboard. When in a hotel, use a device like the very popular Belkin Mini surge protector, and plug this into the wall outlet, and then plug your non-surge protected power strip into the Belkin. The Belkin will provide surge protection to all devices "downstream" of itself.

[dieselmama]

What I would suggest, to save room, is to bring a power strip without surge protection, for use both on shore and onboard. When in a hotel, use a device like the very popular Belkin Mini surge protector, and plug this into the wall outlet, and then plug your non-surge protected power strip into the Belkin. The Belkin will provide surge protection to all devices "downstream" of itself.

 

 

Awesome idea! Thank you! We do have a lot of equipment we are taking already, so space saving is important! (we have to bring all his food with us, 3 weeks supply though we hope to ship some of it on ahead to hotels... )

[DesrtDrmr]

Just asking, has anyone ever found a non surge protected power strip? I looked for a long time last year, finally ordered one, and when I got it, it said surge protected on the bottom.

 

 

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[chengkp75]

Just asking, has anyone ever found a non surge protected power strip? I looked for a long time last year, finally ordered one, and when I got it, it said surge protected on the bottom.

 

 

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From Home Depot, there are several power strips that are not surge protected, typically the cheaper ones like this:

 

http://www.homedepot.com/p/4-ft-6-Outlet-Power-Strip-with-45-Degree-Angle-Plug-YLPT-2-1B/203353677

[DesrtDrmr]

From Home Depot, there are several power strips that are not surge protected, typically the cheaper ones like this:

 

 

 

http://www.homedepot.com/p/4-ft-6-Outlet-Power-Strip-with-45-Degree-Angle-Plug-YLPT-2-1B/203353677

 

 

Thank you very much. In looking further this morning, I noticed that surge suppressors are listed with a "joule" rating, and power strips with "amp" rating. Is that a good way to tell? Makes it much easier to separate in my mind...... I appreciate your earlier explanation....and can't believe that I spent all that time looking last year and still bought the wrong thing.........sigh.....[emoji57]

 

 

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[chengkp75]

Yes, unless it states either a "joules" (amount of energy) of protection, or "clamping voltage" (the level where the surge protector kicks in), it is not surge protected. The amp rating is just like any appliance or even an extension cord, where the amps are based on wire size, or for a power strip like I linked, the "reset" switch, which is actually a circuit breaker.