Prepaid gratuities/service charge

[MagicCat7]

Isn't that always the case?:confused:

 

I mean above and beyond their paid salary and the price we paid to go on the ship. I should have clarified. Gratuities are a back end charge. I don't find them automatically adding gratuities a convenience. Actually auto gratuities are an inconvenience.

[Longstockingpippi1]

I mean above and beyond their paid salary and the price we paid to go on the ship. I should have clarified. Gratuities are a back end charge. I don't find them automatically adding gratuities a convenience. Actually auto gratuities are an inconvenience.

 

Only if you wanna be cheap...

[LMaxwell]

I filled out a form onboard for reduction of DSC by half and they credited it to my account same day; December 2016 on Escape. Named the offending staff member on the form; gave extra cash to room steward instead. So be it.

[putnam]

Sent from my iPhone using Forums

[fshagan]

Whilst I agree that many Brits do not fully accept the NCL tipping strategy, the vast majority do pay them. It is therefore unfair when posters (albeit a minority) label the Brits as non tipping cheapskates. Even on this thread, there is at least one USA poster who clearly does not pay tips!

 

Yeah, my objection is to them (anyone) saying they are from a "non-tipping culture" when in fact tips are used in their culture, and expected (or forced via service charge) for certain things like fine dining, taxis, etc.. It's an empty excuse and not a reason. I view the statement that "I want to personally hand the money to the individual who has pleased me" to be in the same vein; it smacks of a condescending attitude toward third world workers to me ... the rich white person throwing coins to the lowly peasants. But it's a personal prejudice on my part, and I realize it's an unfair judgement. Many of the people saying this are probably very sincere and want to do the right thing.

 

The fact that Fred Olsen sails with mostly British passengers and they have automatically added gratuities / service charges shows that most Brits are fine with paying grats / service charges. Otherwise Fred Olsen would have rolled the grats into the fare price like NCL is starting to do in Australia and the UK. Perhaps Fred Olsen is not as forgiving in allowing people to remove the auto-gratuities / service charges and therefore those that want to save a little migrate to other lines that allow it.

[grapau27]

This is interesting! An American saying they will remove the 'gratuities' and another American saying the service charge should be included in the fare as it is part of the staff pay.

I am disappointed that cruise lines catering to the UK market have adopted the US tipping system. I do not expect to stay in a hotel in the UK and be told that I have to pay extra to have my room cleaned and towels changed. I do not expect to visit a restaurant and find that the staff entrusted to bring my food to the table are not being paid properly.

If the extra payment is for staff wages, it is part of the cruise fare, and should be included. A tip, IMHO, is a small extra thank you to the staff.

If cruise lines operating out of the UK do not understand and recognise the difference, they should not be surprised if Brits interpret this the way we normally understand it.

I understand that in the US, there is some system to ensure that service staff pay taxes on their tips. In the UK this is not so straightforward. Service staff are paid a wage and their employer deducts their taxes from what they have earned from them. If the tips were of the high amounts expected in the US, this money would be quite substantial untaxed earnings. This is not fair, not only because the employee is not contributing properly to the many benefits UK taxes provide, but they may also claim additional benefits including among others, free medical prescriptions, and top up payments for the low paid, to which they are not entitled.

Including the 'gratuities' in the cruise fare would ensure that no passengers of any nationality,would be able to deprive the staff of what they have earned.

It will be interesting now NCL is all inclusive for the UK.

 

43 cruises and counting.

[fshagan]

I do not expect to visit a restaurant and find that the staff entrusted to bring my food to the table are not being paid properly.

 

Gee, the guides for Americans visiting London state that a 10% - 15% tip is expected in restaurants unless it has been automatically added by the restaurant. Do you feel the official London Visitor Guide is just saying that to Americans because they are from a "tipping culture"? See this link for details on what we are told is expected when we visit your country. It is almost identical to what Americans do. Maybe we're just getting ripped off? Or your capital city has different customs than the rest of the country (which could be true).

 

If cruise lines operating out of the UK do not understand and recognise the difference, they should not be surprised if Brits

interpret this the way we normally understand it.

 

Fred Olsen is a cruise line catering mainly to Brits, and this is what they say about their daily gratuities:

 

Gratuities are not included in the cost of your holiday. However, we pride ourselves on the service offered to our guests, and are confident that you’ll wish to reward staff on board for this service, although tipping is entirely at your discretion.

As a general rule, gratuities are charged at £4.00 per person, per day for guests aged 12 and over. This is split between your stewardess and restaurant waiter, and will be automatically added to your on board account. Please remember that our gratuities, while very much appreciated, are voluntary and therefore can be adjusted or removed completely at Guest Services on board the ship if you wish.

 

That is almost exactly what the American cruise lines have as their policy. I find it hard to believe that it is so shocking to British cruisers when they find out NCL has the same policy as their most popular cruise line at home.

 

I understand that in the US, there is some system to ensure that service staff pay taxes on their tips. In the UK this is not so straightforward. Service staff are paid a wage and their employer deducts their taxes from what they have earned from them. If the tips were of the high amounts expected in the US, this money would be quite substantial untaxed earnings. This is not fair, not only because the employee is not contributing properly to the many benefits UK taxes provide, but they may also claim additional benefits including among others, free medical prescriptions, and top up payments for the low paid, to which they are not entitled.

Including the 'gratuities' in the cruise fare would ensure that no passengers of any nationality,would be able to deprive the staff of what they have earned.

 

American employers do have to add the gratuities someone receives to income, calculate taxes on them, and then remove them from their paycheck again if the employee has received the gratuity in cash (or as a payment in cash at the end of the shift if the tips are paid on a credit card). In some places, because the employees do not report tips, the employer is required to add a service charge to the bill and split it among the employees, but this is rare (our tax agency imposes this as a penalty).

 

However, the people on board the ship are paid according to their home country's tax rules and the contract the mariners from that country have agreed to in their union negotiations. Because NCL has so many Filipinos I researched the tax laws in the Philippines and they do not pay income taxes on gratuities or service charge income. This is by design, and I believe one reason is so Filipinos can earn a living wage working abroad and help support their families. They are from a poor country. The average monthly wage in the is about 22,000 pesos, or $445 USD or £355 GBP. The average reported wage from working as a cabin steward on an NCL ship is about $1,000 USD or £799 GBP (as self reported by cruise line workers on the website glassdoor.com).

 

I believe that the cruise companies list some salary and some income as tips / gratuity in accordance with the contract they have with the worker's union, and that is done to maximize the legal amount of "take home" pay that worker can receive. I wouldn't be surprised to see the $614 / £490 minimum wage as one line item, and the difference, $386 / £308 as tips that, for Filipinos, is tax exempt.

 

Their individual contract with the union and the cruise line could specify different amounts, of course, and I haven't seen the paychecks of workers, so I am just guessing. But it's an educated guess.

 

I don't believe those that remove the gratuities actually hurt the workers on that cruise, because they are paid a contractual amount. However, I do believe the company would negotiate different terms and that could affect worker pay the next time contract negotiations occur. It is also possible that the ship calculates the wages based on the "DSC pool" each week, and their contract states they get the minimum income plus their share of the DSC pool. That would hurt them or help them week to week. I think both employer and employee would prefer the former contracted amount calculation, which is similar to what I have had on shared bonus plans from my employers.

[Longstockingpippi1]

Gee, the guides for Americans visiting London state that a 10% - 15% tip is expected in restaurants unless it has been automatically added by the restaurant. Do you feel the official London Visitor Guide is just saying that to Americans because they are from a "tipping culture"? See this link for details on what we are told is expected when we visit your country. It is almost identical to what Americans do. Maybe we're just getting ripped off? Or your capital city has different customs than the rest of the country (which could be true).

 

 

 

Fred Olsen is a cruise line catering mainly to Brits, and this is what they say about their daily gratuities:

 

 

 

That is almost exactly what the American cruise lines have as their policy. I find it hard to believe that it is so shocking to British cruisers when they find out NCL has the same policy as their most popular cruise line at home.

 

 

 

American employers do have to add the gratuities someone receives to income, calculate taxes on them, and then remove them from their paycheck again if the employee has received the gratuity in cash (or as a payment in cash at the end of the shift if the tips are paid on a credit card). In some places, because the employees do not report tips, the employer is required to add a service charge to the bill and split it among the employees, but this is rare (our tax agency imposes this as a penalty).

 

However, the people on board the ship are paid according to their home country's tax rules and the contract the mariners from that country have agreed to in their union negotiations. Because NCL has so many Filipinos I researched the tax laws in the Philippines and they do not pay income taxes on gratuities or service charge income. This is by design, and I believe one reason is so Filipinos can earn a living wage working abroad and help support their families. They are from a poor country. The average monthly wage in the is about 22,000 pesos, or $445 USD or £355 GBP. The average reported wage from working as a cabin steward on an NCL ship is about $1,000 USD or £799 GBP (as self reported by cruise line workers on the website glassdoor.com).

 

I believe that the cruise companies list some salary and some income as tips / gratuity in accordance with the contract they have with the worker's union, and that is done to maximize the legal amount of "take home" pay that worker can receive. I wouldn't be surprised to see the $614 / £490 minimum wage as one line item, and the difference, $386 / £308 as tips that, for Filipinos, is tax exempt.

 

Their individual contract with the union and the cruise line could specify different amounts, of course, and I haven't seen the paychecks of workers, so I am just guessing. But it's an educated guess.

 

I don't believe those that remove the gratuities actually hurt the workers on that cruise, because they are paid a contractual amount. However, I do believe the company would negotiate different terms and that could affect worker pay the next time contract negotiations occur. It is also possible that the ship calculates the wages based on the "DSC pool" each week, and their contract states they get the minimum income plus their share of the DSC pool. That would hurt them or help them week to week. I think both employer and employee would prefer the former contracted amount calculation, which is similar to what I have had on shared bonus plans from my employers.

 

What an intelligent answer to a sometimes touchy subject. The only analogy my simple mind can come up with is -co-workers who aren't in the union but still receive union representation (which is possible through those of us that do pay union dues). So they benefit because others foot their bill.

[hamrag]

...Fred Olsen is a cruise line catering mainly to Brits, and this is what they say about their daily gratuities:

 

That is almost exactly what the American cruise lines have as their policy. I find it hard to believe that it is so shocking to British cruisers when they find out NCL has the same policy as their most popular cruise line at home.....

 

For the record, there is no way on earth that Fred Olsen is the most popular cruise line for Brits! That accolade probably belongs to P&O cruises, whose tipping policy is similar in operation and amount paid as Fred Olsen.

[MagicCat7]

A tip is supposed to be for service above and beyond the job they have been paid to do. Tips should not be expected. Tips seem to be capitalistic rhetoric to get consumers to pay corporations more to fatten their bottom line. Kind of like the Fast Food and Retail saying they can't afford to pay employees a living wage in America. I'm not feeling sorry for the very wealthy corporations. We are the customers. If we stop using their business & services, they they go out of business.

 

Cruiselines are making a killing on the gambling. We had a lady ask what happens to the bingo jackpot if no one wins. They told her she would need to talk to the bingo manager. When they play that progressive bingo and no one wins, they only pay out a couple hundred dollars at the most. Who's to say the cruise lines are not using a rigged bingo system so paying passengers never win? They are out in international waters and don't have to adhere to any laws. All it would take is someone from their staff to dress up as a passenger, they give them a winning card so it appears a passenger won. Same thing with the progressive $900,000 lottery. It would be easy for them to rig it so passengers never win.

 

This is interesting! An American saying they will remove the 'gratuities' and another American saying the service charge should be included in the fare as it is part of the staff pay.

 

Including the 'gratuities' in the cruise fare would ensure that no passengers of any nationality,would be able to deprive the staff of what they have earned.

[phoenix1181]

A tip is supposed to be for service above and beyond the job they have been paid to do. Tips should not be expected. Tips seem to be capitalistic rhetoric to get consumers to pay corporations more to fatten their bottom line. Kind of like the Fast Food and Retail saying they can't afford to pay employees a living wage in America. I'm not feeling sorry for the very wealthy corporations. We are the customers. If we stop using their business & services, they they go out of business.

 

Cruiselines are making a killing on the gambling. We had a lady ask what happens to the bingo jackpot if no one wins. They told her she would need to talk to the bingo manager. When they play that progressive bingo and no one wins, they only pay out a couple hundred dollars at the most. Who's to say the cruise lines are not using a rigged bingo system so paying passengers never win? They are out in international waters and don't have to adhere to any laws. All it would take is someone from their staff to dress up as a passenger, they give them a winning card so it appears a passenger won. Same thing with the progressive $900,000 lottery. It would be easy for them to rig it so passengers never win.

 

If you really think that poorly of NCL &/or the cruise lines in general, you might want to consider a different vacation plan..........

[grapau27]

For the record, there is no way on earth that Fred Olsen is the most popular cruise line for Brits! That accolade probably belongs to P&O cruises, whose tipping policy is similar in operation and amount paid as Fred Olsen.

P&O definitely no.1 for the UK

 

43 cruises and counting.

[MagicCat7]

If you really think that poorly of NCL &/or the cruise lines in general, you might want to consider a different vacation plan..........

 

Why can't I have an opinion about something without someone like you, a sheeple, telling me what I should do and think?

[Longstockingpippi1]

Why can't I have an opinion about something without someone like you, a sheeple, telling me what I should do and think?

 

From where I sit you should be thanking us 'sheeple', we pay the gratuities that you don't, therefore keeping cruise prices low. We sheeple appreciate the effort the staff make. If everyone opted out cruise prices would rise as compensation. One way or another the staff will get paid.

 

And yes the CEO"S are raking in the big bucks, that goes on with every company. You aren't going to change that.

[phoenix1181]

Why can't I have an opinion about something without someone like you, a sheeple, telling me what I should do and think?

 

You can have all the opinions you want, as can I.

 

In this instance, it's my opinion that anyone who is as unhappy with how NCL runs as you are, should look elsewhere. How much enjoyment can you possibly get cruising when you're so worried the cruise line is stealing & cheating & lying to you? Which is why you then take it out on the same to the staff & cheat them..........

[MagicCat7]

From where I sit you should be thanking us 'sheeple', we pay the gratuities that you don't, therefore keeping cruise prices low. We sheeple appreciate the effort the staff make. If everyone opted out cruise prices would rise as compensation. One way or another the staff will get paid.

 

And yes the CEO"S are raking in the big bucks, that goes on with every company. You aren't going to change that.

 

Tipping is a poor business practice!!! I don't live in Los Angeles, Miami or New York where everyone expects a tip for everything they do. Like my husband says, your tip is to go get a job that pays a living wage. It's not my fault that corporations are not paying living wages. Corporate greed created the culture. It's clear that customer service and affordability is not a priority with a lot of companies. When the prices go up as they have been, we will stop cruising and find something else to do that is more affordable. One old man said NCL is higher class than other cruise lines. I saw it comparable to Carnival & probably slightly higher in price to price out families with children. I would think these companies would listen to customer feedback.

[njhorseman]

Tipping is a poor business practice!!! I don't live in Los Angeles, Miami or New York where everyone expects a tip for everything they do. Like my husband says, your tip is to go get a job that pays a living wage. It's not my fault that corporations are not paying living wages. Corporate greed created the culture. It's clear that customer service and affordability is not a priority with a lot of companies. When the prices go up as they have been, we will stop cruising and find something else to do that is more affordable. One old man said NCL is higher class than other cruise lines. I saw it comparable to Carnival & probably slightly higher in price to price out families with children. I would think these companies would listen to customer feedback.

 

I'm constantly astounded by those who somehow naively think it's the corporation that pays the salaries of it's employees. You, the end consumer of the product or service are paying the salary. If instead of a small salary and a tip, the employees' total compensation is paid solely by their corporate employer via salary, you the consumer will be paying for it because the corporation will raise the prices to cover the higher salary. That greedy corporation you refer to is going to make sure it turns the same profit whether it pays the entire salary directly or it pays a smaller salary and you pay the rest in the form of a tip.

 

Sorry, you better rethink it. You're going to pay one way or the other, whether salary plus tip or straight salary. When restaurants eliminate tipping they raise their menu prices to compensate for it.

[phoenix1181]

I'm constantly astounded by those who somehow naively think it's the corporation that pays the salaries of it's employees. You, the end consumer of the product or service are paying the salary. If instead of a small salary and a tip, the employees' total compensation is paid soely by their corporate employer via salary, you the consumer will be paying for it because the corporation will raise the prices to cover the higher salary. That greedy corporation you refer to is going to make sure it turns the same profit whether it pays the entire salary directly or it pays a smaller salary and you pay the rest in the form of a tip.

 

Sorry, you better rethink it. You're going to pay one way or the other, salary plus tip or straight salary.

 

She doesn't need to rethink it, shes got it all figured out. The current policy works just fine........ She removes the DSC & lets the rest of us pay!

 

Now there's a plan..............

[MagicCat7]

She doesn't need to rethink it, shes got it all figured out. The current policy works just fine........ She removes the DSC & lets the rest of us pay!

 

Now there's a plan..............

 

You are making a personal choice to pay the gratuities.

[KeithJenner]

If instead of a small salary and a tip, the employees' total compensation is paid solely by their corporate employer via salary, you the consumer will be paying for it because the corporation will raise the prices to cover the higher salary.

 

 

Actually, what they will do is raise prices to cover the higher salary and then add a bit more on to that as well.

 

Just like NCL has done with the All Inclusive in Europe.

 

Never encourage a company you do business with to larger their pricing structure. If they have any sense at all they will use the opportunity to put prices up while they are at it.

[grapau27]

Tipping is a poor business practice!!! I don't live in Los Angeles, Miami or New York where everyone expects a tip for everything they do. Like my husband says, your tip is to go get a job that pays a living wage. It's not my fault that corporations are not paying living wages. Corporate greed created the culture. It's clear that customer service and affordability is not a priority with a lot of companies. When the prices go up as they have been, we will stop cruising and find something else to do that is more affordable. One old man said NCL is higher class than other cruise lines. I saw it comparable to Carnival & probably slightly higher in price to price out families with children. I would think these companies would listen to customer feedback.

The choice of dining options with reasonable prices is what we liked and now going all inclusive will make things interesting.

 

43 cruises and counting.

[ExpatBride]

The DSC is just part of the cost of the cruise, just like like taxes and port fees. Can't afford it or don't want to pay it? Choose another holiday. I'm constantly amazed at the lengths people will go to save a few bucks. I wonder if the Premium AI scheme hasn't been introduced in part to handle this issue.

[MagicCat7]

I'm constantly astounded by those who somehow naively think it's the corporation that pays the salaries of it's employees. You, the end consumer of the product or service are paying the salary. If instead of a small salary and a tip, the employees' total compensation is paid solely by their corporate employer via salary, you the consumer will be paying for it because the corporation will raise the prices to cover the higher salary.

 

The corporation pays their employees based on profits. When I shop at a retail store and get gas from a gas station, I don't tip those people & I'm not about to start a bad practice. I'm not about to tip the ripoff insurance company agent for raising prices on me every year due to them playing politics. I think these very large corporations saying they are not making a profit is rubbish. They are just being cheap, not paying their employees a living way and passing costs off on to the consumer. When the corporations raises their prices so high, they will go out of business and lose profits because people in America are not being paid a living wage in many cases. Maybe people in Europe and other countries are paid better. The older generation in America was paid better and had pensions. Corporations hate unions, which actually negotiate better wages for employees. Corporations in America are cheap, stingy and scaling back as much as they can, install robots to replace humans and doubling up jobs on employees. When money is tight for consumers, the corporation is not going to make any money. Hopefully the cruise industry is prepared to send all their ships to other countries where cruising will be more affordable.

[grapau27]

After what you have said one wonders what will happen with NCL going all inclusive in Europe.

 

43 cruises and counting.

[Longstockingpippi1]

The corporation pays their employees based on profits. When I shop at a retail store and get gas from a gas station, I don't tip those people & I'm not about to start a bad practice. I'm not about to tip the ripoff insurance company agent for raising prices on me every year due to them playing politics. I think these very large corporations saying they are not making a profit is rubbish. They are just being cheap, not paying their employees a living way and passing costs off on to the consumer. When the corporations raises their prices so high, they will go out of business and lose profits because people in America are not being paid a living wage in many cases. Maybe people in Europe and other countries are paid better. The older generation in America was paid better and had pensions. Corporations hate unions, which actually negotiate better wages for employees. Corporations in America are cheap, stingy and scaling back as much as they can, install robots to replace humans and doubling up jobs on employees. When money is tight for consumers, the corporation is not going to make any money. Hopefully the cruise industry is prepared to send all their ships to other countries where cruising will be more affordable.

 

Drivel, drivel you have given us baloney talk to justify your cheapness. We get it, you don't believe in tipping. Corporations are cheap and greedy but you are not.

 

I worked with someone like you once, wouldn't tip the pizza delivery man. So the rest of us tipped and she got off easy and cheap....none of us every ordered delivery food with her again.