Regent or Viking Ocean?

[BarbarianPaul]

Just to be clear, when you stated that the cost for your Viking cruise is higher than Regent, you were not including hotel or Business Class Air. This is pretty much what Regent advertises.... when you add in everything that is not included on lower priced cruises, Regent's pricing isn't as high as at first glance.

 

As I said in my "too long" post above, I am using the generally accepted list of "luxury cruise lines". After we took our first Radisson cruise, we looked for other "luxury" cruise lines and came with the same ones, Crystal, Seabourn and Silversea (in addition to Radisson). Now other lines are using the term.

 

Do you get free internet? If so, hope that you will find time to give us some impressions. I'll be checking the Viking board for your posts:D

 

 

 

I included a prorated cost of one night in our hotel in Stockholm (booked two on a pre-cruise package), as well as cost of our air...in this case, premium economy. Didn't add a three day post cruise Iceland add on, which we're also doing. But if we did indeed fly business, the cost would be substantially more. So I do expect Regent quality, but with a distinctly Scandinavian character. And no kids!

 

We also have free internet, so I will post a few impressions along the way. Not sure if you'll be able to read them though, considering the unreliable Regent internet in Alaska! :)

 

 

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[tubeamps]

Just to be clear, when you stated that the cost for your Viking cruise is higher than Regent, you were not including hotel or Business Class Air. This is pretty much what Regent advertises.... when you add in everything that is not included on lower priced cruises, Regent's pricing isn't as high as at first glance.

 

As I said in my "too long" post above, I am using the generally accepted list of "luxury cruise lines". After we took our first Radisson cruise, we looked for other "luxury" cruise lines and came with the same ones, Crystal, Seabourn and Silversea (in addition to Radisson). Now other lines are using the term.

 

Do you get free internet? If so, hope that you will find time to give us some impressions. I'll be checking the Viking board for your posts:D

 

Viking does have free internet.

 

Re: definition of luxury, I have a hard time calling the standard sized cabins on Crystal as a luxury accommodation. In most definitions of luxury people generally, not all the time but generally, consider size as a factor,

Large house, boat, seats in first class or business class, cruiseship rooms, usually denote luxury.

 

Regent generally provides larger accommodations and they fit the luxury definition very well. Crystal does not but they are defined as luxury. My point is the definition of luxury is a bit fuzzy.

[Travelcat2]

Viking does have free internet.

 

Re: definition of luxury, I have a hard time calling the standard sized cabins on Crystal as a luxury accommodation. In most definitions of luxury people generally, not all the time but generally, consider size as a factor,

Large house, boat, seats in first class or business class, cruiseship rooms, usually denote luxury.

 

Regent generally provides larger accommodations and they fit the luxury definition very well. Crystal does not but they are defined as luxury. My point is the definition of luxury is a bit fuzzy.

 

Yes- definitely fuzzy but it is rare to see a discussion where people are trying to redefine a premium plus cruise line.

[mjobtx]

And "All" does not mean all. Regent has Regent Choice (express cost) excursions. Air deviations that many of us use require a fee unless you use Regent's hotel. Premium wines, liquors, etc. do cost extra. I am probably missing a few things but like I said the term "all-inclusive" is a misnomer.

[Travelcat2]

And "All" does not mean all. Regent has Regent Choice (express cost) excursions. Air deviations that many of us use require a fee unless you use Regent's hotel. Premium wines, liquors, etc. do cost extra. I am probably missing a few things but like I said the term "all-inclusive" is a misnomer.

 

It sounds as if you are not impressed with Regent. If a passenger wants all-inclusive - they get all-inclusive. There are multiple "included" excursions in each port. Regent will provide Business Class Air for their customers -- included. Hotel pre-cruise is included for Concierge level guests and above. Transportation is included for anyone using Regent air. You can spend an unlimited amount of time on the ship without paying 1 cent! Regent already offers premium spirits - there is no real reason to purchase any alcohol.

 

OTOH, if the above is not good enough for you:

 

1. You can pay a deviation fee and choose your own flights (on contracted airlines) 270 days in advance.

 

2. If Grey Goose vodka, Patron tequila, etc. is not good enough, you can pay for the few (very few) ultra premium alcohol.

 

Many of us book "Regent Choice" excursions and/or purchase high end wine because we need to spend our onboard credits which is not easy to do on Regent. As of today, Regent is the most inclusive luxury cruise line of the "big four".

[mjobtx]

It sounds as if you are not impressed with Regent. If a passenger wants all-inclusive - they get all-inclusive. There are multiple "included" excursions in each port. Regent will provide Business Class Air for their customers -- included. Hotel pre-cruise is included for Concierge level guests and above. Transportation is included for anyone using Regent air. You can spend an unlimited amount of time on the ship without paying 1 cent! Regent already offers premium spirits - there is no real reason to purchase any alcohol.

 

OTOH, if the above is not good enough for you:

 

1. You can pay a deviation fee and choose your own flights (on contracted airlines) 270 days in advance.

 

2. If Grey Goose vodka, Patron tequila, etc. is not good enough, you can pay for the few (very few) ultra premium alcohol.

 

Many of us book "Regent Choice" excursions and/or purchase high end wine because we need to spend our onboard credits which is not easy to do on Regent. As of today, Regent is the most inclusive luxury cruise line of the "big four".

 

I very much like Regent and will continue to sail on her ships if I can find itineraries of interest. The only point I was making is that there is no such thing as "All-Inclusive." Regent comes as close to being all-inclusive as any cruise line.

 

 

That said, Regent has 7 Champagnes, 3 Blended Scotches, 4 Single Malt Scotches, 1 Irish Whiskey, 1 Armagnac, 6 Cognac, 1 Rum, 1 Tequila, 1 Grappa, 1 Vodka, and 117 wines that are not included but are available at a cost.

 

 

As for it being good enough for me, that has nothing to do with my comment about "All-Inclusive." It either is or it isn't "All-Inclusive." It is a marketing term and like many marketing terms, it takes liberties.

[iamheisenberg]

I'm not impressed by any liquor selection that does not include Zafiro Añejo tequila!

[Travelcat2]

I very much like Regent and will continue to sail on her ships if I can find itineraries of interest. The only point I was making is that there is no such thing as "All-Inclusive." Regent comes as close to being all-inclusive as any cruise line.

 

 

That said, Regent has 7 Champagnes, 3 Blended Scotches, 4 Single Malt Scotches, 1 Irish Whiskey, 1 Armagnac, 6 Cognac, 1 Rum, 1 Tequila, 1 Grappa, 1 Vodka, and 117 wines that are not included but are available at a cost.

 

 

As for it being good enough for me, that has nothing to do with my comment about "All-Inclusive." It either is or it isn't "All-Inclusive." It is a marketing term and like many marketing terms, it takes liberties.

 

Very curious how old your list is because my list shows:

 

1 Tequila

1 Calvados

2 Vodka

2 Gin

4 Rum

2 Grappas

11 Cognac

11 champagnes

5 Single Malt Scotch

4 Blended Scotch Whiskey

1 Irish Whiskey

2 Bourbon

1 Armagnac

2 Ports

 

There were more than I thought but, in 365 days onboard Regent, we haven't spent a cent on alcohol. We tend to drink Patron and Don Julio Tequila, Grey Goose, Stoly and Chopin vodka and have no problem with the house champagne (although I love the Verve Clicquot "Yellow Label" that we get in our suite when we book the upper suites).

 

IMO, this is an interesting topic when discussing a cruise line that is not considered "luxury". While I don't know what brands are available on Viking, the brands that I've heard about on Azamara are not up to the level of Regent's offering. Oceania, OTOH, (another premium plus cruise line) includes just about everything that Regent does when you purchase their premium alcohol package for $59/person/day.

 

P.S. Just looked up the Viking Ocean website and saw that only beer and wine is available at lunch and dinner - not spirits. Passengers in a "Penthouse Veranda" and higher category cabins have access to in-room mini-bars, which are stocked and replenished -- for free with alcoholic beverages and soft drinks. And, as stated earlier, guests can bring beer or liquor onboard "within reason" and there is no corkage fee. They do have an alcohol package for a better price than Oceania but I am not able to find an alcohol list.

Edited June 26, 2017 by Travelcat2

[Drdleo56]

We like Regent but I will say that Seabourn and Crystal are luxury. The service on Crystal and Seabourn are a notch better as well as food and presentation. Seabourn has beautiful suites and non PH staterooms are very comfortable and well laid out. Crystal may have smaller staterooms but they are very comfortable and well designed.

 

Luxury is not just your stateroom or suite. Luxury is primarily outside the room and what is delivered.

 

Regent has not been number one for a few years and even Viking beat all of them in 2016. I know blame it on the Russians.

[BarbarianPaul]

Yes- definitely fuzzy but it is rare to see a discussion where people are trying to redefine a premium plus cruise line.

 

 

 

Personally, I'm not trying to redefine anything. But I think it might be doing Viking a disservice to attempt to categorize it as "premium plus," considering that at least for me the the cost is equivalent to "luxury" brands.

 

Though we might debate Regent, it looks to me pretty much superior to Crystal across the board, at least pre Symphony dry dock. Of course I really don't know, and won't until I sail in August.

 

Again, for me, I would call the Concierge or Aqua Class cabins on Celebrity premium plus, or the Haven experience on RC.

[goldenrod]

Having been on both in our opinion Regent is superior in every way! Especially the Explorer!

 

 

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[Travelcat2]

Personally, I'm not trying to redefine anything. But I think it might be doing Viking a disservice to attempt to categorize it as "premium plus," considering that at least for me the the cost is equivalent to "luxury" brands.

 

Though we might debate Regent, it looks to me pretty much superior to Crystal across the board, at least pre Symphony dry dock. Of course I really don't know, and won't until I sail in August.

 

Again, for me, I would call the Concierge or Aqua Class cabins on Celebrity premium plus, or the Haven experience on RC.

 

As I think that you know, I respect your opinion very much. However (you probably knew that there would be a "but" in my response so I used the word 'however; :evilsmile:), I am not defining Viking Ocean as premium plus or luxury "lite", it is the cruise writers/community that has designated it the way it is designated. I need to add that Oceania (another premium plus or luxury lite cruise line) is, in many cases, more expensive than Regent. It isn't cost that makes a cruise line luxury, it is the amenities, suites, etc. that play into the designation.

 

I really want to agree with you about Crystal, but, since I have not sailed on Crystal, I would likely be blasted to pieces if I agreed with you.;p

[BarbarianPaul]

You know, I'll be way more of an expert after I actually spend two weeks on a Viking ship...so at least on this topic I'll defer further argument until September!

 

 

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[flossie009]

The cruise industry designates the rating of a cruise line.

For my education, what are the ratings and where are they published?

Are there agreed standards for the facilities and service required for a cruise line to achieve a specific rating?

[Travelcat2]

For my education, what are the ratings and where are they published?

Are there agreed standards for the facilities and service required for a cruise line to achieve a specific rating?

 

They are published all over the place as well as on the television travel shows related to cruising. However, you need to remember that we are discussing this from a North American perspective. Choices in Europe may differ (for instance, Europa 1 and 2 are definitely luxury cruise lines with mostly European passengers).

 

One article that lists the "big four" plus Sea Dream is http://www.travelchannel.com/interests/cruises/articles/top-5-all-inclusive-luxury-cruises . Also, while CC mixes premium plus, yachts, river cruises and parts of mainstream cruise lines with luxury lines, they do acknowledge "luxury stalwarts -- Silversea, Seabourn, Seabourn, Crystal, Regent Seven Seas.........." in a recent article.

 

The Avid Cruiser includes Hapag Lloyd and one that we tend to forget ..... the Paul Gauguin and also includes a mainstream cruise line with a separate luxury section: "If you feel comfortable budgeting $300 to $1,000 per day per person, look to the luxury cruise players such as Crystal Cruises, Cunard Line (grill class), Hapag Lloyd, Paul Gauguin, Regent Seven Seas Cruises, Silversea Cruises, SeaDream Yacht Club and Seabourn"

[flossie009]

Sorry, but you do not appear to have answered my questions (The link provided just talks about luxury and ultra-luxury)

 

What I wanted to know was what are all the recognised designations and the agreed standards on which these ratings are based.

 

Or is it all just subjective, vague and based on the cruise lines' own marketing puff?

[Travelcat2]

Sorry, but you do not appear to have answered my questions (The link provided just talks about luxury and ultra-luxury)

 

What I wanted to know was what are all the recognised designations and the agreed standards on which these ratings are based.

 

Or is it all just subjective, vague and based on the cruise lines' own marketing puff?

 

You did ask where ratings, etc. are published. Rather than asking you to Google the information, I gave a couple of examples of cruise lines that are considered luxury. Sorry, but if my information was insufficient, you might want to do some research on your own and hopefully will come with the specific information that you are seeking. The research that I have done does not speak to "standards". The definition is unclear. It I what it is and most of us simply search for luxury, premium or mainstream cruise lines and look at what appears and compare the results.

[freddie]

flossie - To further muddy the cruising waters, Douglas Ward, the author of the Berlitz Cruising & Cruise Ship guide and described as "the world's foremost authority on cruising", includes Oceania (the two large ships) in his list of "The Crème de la Crème". In the latest 2017 edition, as part of his chapter entitled "Living in Luxury", there is on page 129 a chart ("Comparing Luxury Ships") on which Oceania Marina and Riviera are placed higher than any of the Seabourn, Silversea, or Regent ships.

 

Although Ward has not yet updated his chart to include the Viking ships, one may note that his overall Berlitz Ratings for the Viking Star and Viking Sea are about 100 points higher (of a possible total of 2000 points) than any Regent ship and a bit higher than the two aforementioned Oceania vessels. That would logically appear to place the Viking ships within the scope of his chart of "Luxury Ships".

Edited June 27, 2017 by freddie

[flossie009]

Thanks Travelcat & freddie.

 

This confirms my thoughts that any so-called ratings for cruise lines are purely subjective rather than the more objective ratings one might see for land based resorts, hotels & restaurants e.g. a star system

[mjobtx]

Very curious how old your list is because my list shows:

 

1 Tequila

1 Calvados

2 Vodka

2 Gin

4 Rum

2 Grappas

11 Cognac

11 champagnes

5 Single Malt Scotch

4 Blended Scotch Whiskey

1 Irish Whiskey

2 Bourbon

1 Armagnac

2 Ports

 

There were more than I thought but, in 365 days onboard Regent, we haven't spent a cent on alcohol. We tend to drink Patron and Don Julio Tequila, Grey Goose, Stoly and Chopin vodka and have no problem with the house champagne (although I love the Verve Clicquot "Yellow Label" that we get in our suite when we book the upper suites).

 

IMO, this is an interesting topic when discussing a cruise line that is not considered "luxury". While I don't know what brands are available on Viking, the brands that I've heard about on Azamara are not up to the level of Regent's offering. Oceania, OTOH, (another premium plus cruise line) includes just about everything that Regent does when you purchase their premium alcohol package for $59/person/day.

 

P.S. Just looked up the Viking Ocean website and saw that only beer and wine is available at lunch and dinner - not spirits. Passengers in a "Penthouse Veranda" and higher category cabins have access to in-room mini-bars, which are stocked and replenished -- for free with alcoholic beverages and soft drinks. And, as stated earlier, guests can bring beer or liquor onboard "within reason" and there is no corkage fee. They do have an alcohol package for a better price than Oceania but I am not able to find an alcohol list.

 

I received the list yesterday from Regent. That said, I might have miscounted. Old man. Old eyes. The The Onboard Bar and Cigar Menu was dated March 2015 and the Reserve Wine list was dated September 2015. Since they were sent to me yesterday, I have to assume that they are the latest versions of the list. In any case, you might be splitting hairs. I will also admit to double counting the Champagnes. I did not compare the names but they are the same on both lists so you may reduce the total by 7 if that makes you feel any better.

[BarbarianPaul]

flossie - To further muddy the cruising waters, Douglas Ward, the author of the Berlitz Cruising & Cruise Ship guide and described as "the world's foremost authority on cruising", includes Oceania (the two large ships) in his list of "The Crème de la Crème". In the latest 2017 edition, as part of his chapter entitled "Living in Luxury", there is on page 129 a chart ("Comparing Luxury Ships") on which Oceania Marina and Riviera are placed higher than any of the Seabourn, Silversea, or Regent ships.

 

Although Ward has not yet updated his chart to include the Viking ships, one may note that his overall Berlitz Ratings for the Viking Star and Viking Sea are about 100 points higher (of a possible total of 2000 points) than any Regent ship and a bit higher than the two aforementioned Oceania vessels. That would logically appear to place the Viking ships within the scope of his chart of "Luxury Ships".

 

 

 

I find this quite interesting, particularly the contrariness of it. One takeaway that I have from this discussion is that there are no distinct guidelines for the highly subjective, tired terminology used to differentiate all the different levels of luxury and premium cruising. Who cares?

 

It all seems to be based on potentially outdated conventional wisdom coming from mainstream travel professionals.

 

 

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[Travelcat2]

I do not put any more faith in Berlitz than I do any other travel resource. I would love to see him go head to head with Frank Del Rio regarding the classification of Oceania. IMO, Berlitz is confusing the ships (the Marina and the Riviera) which are absolutely exquisite with a luxury experience. Walking around an Oceania ship at night the passengers are wearing shorts, overalls, jeans, etc. (perfectly fine to dress this way in the Terrace Cafe that serves a huge amount of beautiful but mediocre food). One of the main discussions on the Oceania board is how much alcohol you can bring onboard and where you can drink it. IMO, the two ships are luxury (almost as good as the Explorer) with great service but the rest of the experience is premium plus at best.

 

Note: I may have overstated the ships in one regard -- they have tiny inside cabins and no luxury cruise line has inside cabins. Also, you cannot even get a hot breakfast via room service if you aren't in a high enough category "stateroom" or "suite". Luxury? Give me a break!

[flossie009]

So, it appears that the terms premium, luxury, ultra-luxury, 5*, 6* etc do not provide an explicit definition of a cruise ship's facilities or service quality.

 

On the other hand, do I take it from some of the posts on this thread that the quality level might be defined by the category of guests who choose to sail on a particular cruise line? ;)

[BarbarianPaul]

Off topic, but, with so much innovation visible on the huge mass market ships, which isn't enough to lure me to share a voyage with 5000 people but still fascinating to follow, I'm wondering when the luxury lines might take a few design risks. Of course I'm biased because I'm sailing on them in six weeks, but the design and decor of the Viking ships seem genuinely different, sleeker and more architectural. For me, not so much with Crystal, Regent and Oceania, where the interchangeability factor is stronger. Even the Explorer looks like a "plussed" version of the Oceania ships, aside, of course, from the vastly superior cabin size and layout.

 

 

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[Travelcat2]

Off topic, but, with so much innovation visible on the huge mass market ships, which isn't enough to lure me to share a voyage with 5000 people but still fascinating to follow, I'm wondering when the luxury lines might take a few design risks. Of course I'm biased because I'm sailing on them in six weeks, but the design and decor of the Viking ships seem genuinely different, sleeker and more architectural. For me, not so much with Crystal, Regent and Oceania, where the interchangeability factor is stronger. Even the Explorer looks like a "plussed" version of the Oceania ships, aside, of course, from the vastly superior cabin size and layout.

 

 

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Agree that mass market ships are innovative. I believe that this is to continue to draw young cruisers (meaning. young adult cruisers). Luxury cruise lines tend to focus on the "timeless" design and decor. Scandinavian decor is definitely timeless as is the decor of the Explorer (IMHO). As said previously, I would not want my home to be in either decor but, for a cruise ship, both can be very comfortable - depending upon one's perspective. What boggles my mind is when anyone will not sail on a cruise ship simply because they do not like the decor. If the food or service was poor, I understand but basing everything on decor does not make sense to me. A suite could painted purple and black and, as long as the layout, bed and space is good, I could care less what colors the suite is done in.