Looks like misbehaving kids aren't only on Carnival

[FLSteve11]

Fair enough, but you're saying that 350 violent crimes per 100,000 people and 5 murders per 100,000 people is the best we can hope for. :(

 

Oh I hope it gets better, I just don't think we'll see that too much while there are still quite a few gangs and drugs out there. Those, and Domestic incidents, make up the bulk of violent crime stats.

[FLSteve11]

Statistics show that those who cite statistics are statistically speaking.

 

To those who blow it off by saying crime happens sometimes, how would you feel if you (or your child if you have any) were a victim of said crime and someone told you, "It happens?" ;)

 

We jumped from a delinquent kid jumping into a cruise ship pool to national crime statistics. :confused: Fact is, it's ok to be cautious. If a parent doesn't want to let their child roam free on a cruise ship out of cautiousness, that's their decision to make.

 

I'd feel the same as if I had a car accident, or a heart attack (much more likely things by the way). I'd feel upset that it happened. Does not change the likelihood that it would. Drowning is one of the biggest killers of kids, yet they still swim. Do you tell those families "It happens"?

 

I know, it is. If a parent wants to be cautious that's fine. It's their prerogative. At the same time, it's ok if a parent realizes how unlikely something is to happen and is fine with letting their child free to do things on a cruise ship in relative (no, not absolute) safety, with some guidelines of course (not just run wild until 3am) On here though, those people are called selfish, neglectful, and bad parents by people who are the cautious types. Which is how this conversation really came about, trying to show that some of these parents took thought into their decisions.

[kc58ab]

Steve while I think you have a somewhat good point about the car accidents and the drowning I think the difference maybe some or at least I see is a car accident or a drowning when you were doing everything you could for it to be safe for your child is different. If you let your child go swimming alone when they're not a strong swimmer or when the weather conditions are dangerous and they drowned to me that would be similar to if something happened to them from wandering around unsupervised on a ship. Same thing if I'm in a car accident and I didn't make my child wear their seatbelt and they were thrown from the vehicle and killed again I could have easily possibly prevented that with a little more effort on my part.

This by no means is saying that you are a selfish or uncaring parent. If you are allowing your child within guidelines to do certain things because you feel she's safe enough and to teach her independence that's your call and doesn't necessarily mean you're a bad parent.

[kc58ab]

You're missing the point of the whole discussion. This whole thing started because someone said "I can't believe all these people in this thread who think the world is safer." When, objectively speaking, it IS safer. Obviously no one enjoys being the victim of a crime, but that has nothing to do with the conversation.

 

I don't think OC missed the point at all. They're merely referencing before the point that you are where I made the comment I don't think 10 to 12 year olds should be wandering the ship alone. That comment lead to the safety conversation.

[FLSteve11]

Steve while I think you have a somewhat good point about the car accidents and the drowning I think the difference maybe some or at least I see is a car accident or a drowning when you were doing everything you could for it to be safe for your child is different. If you let your child go swimming alone when they're not a strong swimmer or when the weather conditions are dangerous and they drowned to me that would be similar to if something happened to them from wandering around unsupervised on a ship. Same thing if I'm in a car accident and I didn't make my child wear their seatbelt and they were thrown from the vehicle and killed again I could have easily possibly prevented that with a little more effort on my part.

This by no means is saying that you are a selfish or uncaring parent. If you are allowing your child within guidelines to do certain things because you feel she's safe enough and to teach her independence that's your call and doesn't necessarily mean you're a bad parent.

 

People die wearing seat belts in accidents or when taking precautions, and oftentimes people drown even when they're with other people (usually from those not paying attention or not realizing what is happening). There is still a risk in it, it's just a lot smaller if you take precautions I would put the flip side like letting your child run around in a bad neighborhood wearing skimpy clothes, hanging out with drug or alcohol abusers, or roaming around at 2am, which is something I can (and do) prevent. Those are precautions which will remove most potential issues. Walking around taking care of themselves in a generally safe area at normal hours with guidelines is just not that risky. For a teen, or anyone really. If I was in a place that was, then certainly I would reign in what she could do.

 

Now, a parent that doesn't give guidelines, is off getting drunk and ignoring their kid, that's another issue. No one likes them. (But even then, they're generally safe and rarely does anything serious happen to them. They're more an annoyance issue then being in danger).

[Organized Chaos]

You're missing the point of the whole discussion. This whole thing started because someone said "I can't believe all these people in this thread who think the world is safer." When, objectively speaking, it IS safer. Obviously no one enjoys being the victim of a crime, but that has nothing to do with the conversation.

It's easy to say, "Crime happens, but it's safer now," when we're not the victim of a crime. So I was asking how that person would feel if they were the victim of a crime and someone simply told them, "Well, it happens." Regardless of the statistics, the fact that it does happen, no matter how rare on a cruise ship, is why many parents are cautious. It's not our place to tell them to loosen up on the reins and relax.

 

There's another thread that talks about the murder aboard a Princess cruise ship Tuesday night. A man killed his wife because, according to him, she wouldn't stop laughing at him. Does murder aboard a cruise ship happen often? Not at all, but it goes to show you that anything can happen at anytime. And when you least expect it. That's why some parents are cautious.

 

 

I'd feel the same as if I had a car accident, or a heart attack (much more likely things by the way). I'd feel upset that it happened. Does not change the likelihood that it would. Drowning is one of the biggest killers of kids, yet they still swim. Do you tell those families "It happens"?

 

I know, it is. If a parent wants to be cautious that's fine. It's their prerogative. At the same time, it's ok if a parent realizes how unlikely something is to happen and is fine with letting their child free to do things on a cruise ship in relative (no, not absolute) safety, with some guidelines of course (not just run wild until 3am) On here though, those people are called selfish, neglectful, and bad parents by people who are the cautious types. Which is how this conversation really came about, trying to show that some of these parents took thought into their decisions.

You misunderstood my comment. I wasn't suggesting telling victims of crimes "It happens." People here are saying "It happens, but it's safer." How would they like it if they were the victim of a crime, but were simply told "Hey, it happens." My reply to Strophic above elaborates more on what I meant.

 

I never said it wasn't ok for parents to give their kids more freedom on board. It's their choice (although some kids clearly don't deserve it). Several here are piling on to the parents who say they're cautious and I'm merely defending their decision as a parent to be as cautious as they want.

 

It's interesting because half the time people are complaining that kids are allowed to roam free on board, and the other half, they're complaining that parents are too cautious and don't give them enough freedom.

[kc58ab]

Quote: no one likes them lol agreed.

 

I realize seatbelts don't guarantee survival which is why I said possibly. What I'm trying to say is as a parent if you take every precaution necessary to protect your child to the best of your ability then that is all you can do. If something happened to my child in the scenarios I gave what I'm saying is I would personally feel some responsibility for it. Likewise for instance if someone pulled my daughter into their cabin on the way to lay out and raped her I would feel some personal accountability for not going with her. I also would be I'm sure distraught and severely regretful for allowing her to go alone. I'm sure you know that a lot of sexual assaults aren't because people are dressed provocatively, it is after 2 am, or in a bad neighborhood.

[FLSteve11]

Quote: no one likes them lol agreed.

 

I realize seatbelts don't guarantee survival which is why I said possibly. What I'm trying to say is as a parent if you take every precaution necessary to protect your child to the best of your ability then that is all you can do. If something happened to my child in the scenarios I gave what I'm saying is I would personally feel some responsibility for it. Likewise for instance if someone pulled my daughter into their cabin on the way to lay out and raped her I would feel some personal accountability for not going with her. I also would be I'm sure distraught and severely regretful for allowing her to go alone. I'm sure you know that a lot of sexual assaults aren't because people are dressed provocatively, it is after 2 am, or in a bad neighborhood.

 

I'd feel bad too, of course. The "grabbing and pulling in cabin by a stranger thing" just almost never happens though. It's a very rare event. Exaggerated by publishing the rare event that happens for days as if it's the norm, and from far too many episodes of CSI, NCIS, Law & Order, etc. We just tend to imagine worst case scenarios in our mind as people, even if they're very unlikely to happen. It's a natural thing we do. But even in the rare cases listed on cruise ships, that's not what happens. And yes, a lot of sexual assaults aren't from those things. It's almost always a relative, friend, close acquaintance or someone they know and trust (coach, teacher, pastor, etc). Occurring in their home, or a place they frequently go to (school, church, regular sports place). But we can't stop them from being in their home or school. I can keep them out of bad neighborhoods and set a curfew. :)

[kc58ab]

I'd feel bad too, of course. The "grabbing and pulling in cabin by a stranger thing" just almost never happens though. It's a very rare event. Exaggerated by publishing the rare event that happens for days as if it's the norm, and from far too many episodes of CSI, NCIS, Law & Order, etc. We just tend to imagine worst case scenarios in our mind as people, even if they're very unlikely to happen. It's a natural thing we do. But even in the rare cases listed on cruise ships, that's not what happens. And yes, a lot of sexual assaults aren't from those things. It's almost always a relative, friend, close acquaintance or someone they know and trust (coach, teacher, pastor, etc). Occurring in their home, or a place they frequently go to (school, church, regular sports place). But we can't stop them from being in their home or school. I can keep them out of bad neighborhoods and set a curfew. :)

So bottom line sounds like the scenario I gave you feel is rare enough that you don't feel the need to have your preteen with you at all times or within eyesight. I on the other hand do think it's worthwhile I do that.

 

So would you let your daughter walk around outside a large club as long as you knew what she was doing? Of course it's a high-end posh nightclub in a good neighborhood before 2 a.m....

 

So how do you get such detailed information about all crimes on a cruise that breaks down not only that it was sexual assault but that it wasn't someone pulling them into the cabin?;p

[FLSteve11]

So bottom line sounds like the scenario I gave you feel is rare enough that you don't feel the need to have your preteen with you at all times or within eyesight. I on the other hand do think it's worthwhile I do that.

 

So would you let your daughter walk around outside a large club as long as you knew what she was doing? Of course it's a high-end posh nightclub in a good neighborhood before 2 a.m....

 

So how do you get such detailed information about all crimes on a cruise that breaks down not only that it was sexual assault but that it wasn't someone pulling them into the cabin?;p

 

Yes, pretty much. We just have different ideas on what we allow our kids to do based on situations. I think most of it really is overlap and the same. But that's why people are different and have different views on things.

 

Depends on the nightclub obviously. But if I was somewhere in the nightclub (like on the ship), and it was a nice place, then I would let her walk and go do things. Granted a nightclub that allows children in it probably is not going to be too bad :) We went to a concert about a week ago. She had to go to the bathroom at one point, and there was no problem with letting her go on her own. Same with going to get a refill of her drink. I knew where she was going and about how long it would take. But that's also a location that would be more open then a cruise ship as well (more people).

 

I work as a TA part-time, so I like to keep up on things. And obviously I love cruising so I read all sorts of things about it. I don't know exact figures on how things happen, but virtually every report I read on it is from them being with a crew member (usually one they shouldn't), or doing things they shouldn't be doing (usually under-age drinking or hanging out in someone else's cabin, which is one of the main rules we don't let her do) :)

[Domino D]

Wasn't this about a 13 year old jumping off a railing into a pool? Wow has this taken a turn. Unless someone has a study showing direct relationship between 13 year old boys walking around cruise ships unattended and changes in violent crime statistics, this has become completely irrelevant.

 

If you all want to continue to your discussion about kids wandering ships unattended okay, but please stop with the sexual assault analogies and conversations. All you are proving is that you all have been blessed and don't know anyone (who you care deeply about) that has been the victim of a violent crime.

As someone who has had to deal to often with victims of violent crime, it is NOT a result of the parents permissiveness, or any thing that the victims did. Predators prey on people. If your child does not fall victim to them, Thank God, you are blessed not diligent. For instance, the majority of sexual assaults are committed by people the victim knows, not by people who grab them out of the hall. You can not teach them to be safe, or put enough rules on them to keep them safer. Unfortunately, I can tell you that the first thing a parent asks when something happens is "What could I have done" and the answer is ALWAYS "Nothing. Predators work at this 24/7 and find ways around everything you could do." If you believe that you are keeping your child safer from predators, you are kidding yourself. If it were that easy, it wouldn't happen. If you are quoting statistics, I can promise you when someone looks you in the eye to tell you it happened to their daughter or son, they don't care that it only happens .00003% or whatever. For them it happened 100% of the time.

 

Talk about how people don't watch their kids all you want. Talk about how the kids may get hurt. Talk about how much better you are at raising kids then they are. But please stop talking about victims of sexual assault.

 

Again as Organized Chaos said, this started with a 13 year old boy jumping into a pool from a railing. This has NOTHING to do with sexual assault, and can not be correlated to sexual assault.

 

I'm sure you do not mean it to sound the way I putting it. But this is much to sensitive and important a subject to be used as a bullet point in a discussion about cruising.

 

Thank you.

[kc58ab]

Wasn't this about a 13 year old jumping off a railing into a pool? Wow has this taken a turn. Unless someone has a study showing direct relationship between 13 year old boys walking around cruise ships unattended and changes in violent crime statistics, this has become completely irrelevant.

 

If you all want to continue to your discussion about kids wandering ships unattended okay, but please stop with the sexual assault analogies and conversations. All you are proving is that you all have been blessed and don't know anyone (who you care deeply about) that has been the victim of a violent crime.

As someone who has had to deal to often with victims of violent crime, it is NOT a result of the parents permissiveness, or any thing that the victims did. Predators prey on people. If your child does not fall victim to them, Thank God, you are blessed not diligent. For instance, the majority of sexual assaults are committed by people the victim knows, not by people who grab them out of the hall. You can not teach them to be safe, or put enough rules on them to keep them safer. Unfortunately, I can tell you that the first thing a parent asks when something happens is "What could I have done" and the answer is ALWAYS "Nothing. Predators work at this 24/7 and find ways around everything you could do." If you believe that you are keeping your child safer from predators, you are kidding yourself. If it were that easy, it wouldn't happen. If you are quoting statistics, I can promise you when someone looks you in the eye to tell you it happened to their daughter or son, they don't care that it only happens .00003% or whatever. For them it happened 100% of the time.

 

Talk about how people don't watch their kids all you want. Talk about how the kids may get hurt. Talk about how much better you are at raising kids then they are. But please stop talking about victims of sexual assault.

 

Again as Organized Chaos said, this started with a 13 year old boy jumping into a pool from a railing. This has NOTHING to do with sexual assault, and can not be correlated to sexual assault.

 

I'm sure you do not mean it to sound the way I putting it. But this is much to sensitive and important a subject to be used as a bullet point in a discussion about cruising.

 

Thank you.

 

My intention was not that sexual assault of children is the parent's fault. Nor do I believe it is impossible for it to happen even to diligent parents. I do know that it also isn't true that it is never because of parental neglict. I never said anything to imply it is ever the victim''s fault nor would I ever think that. Please don't assume you can tell from a post if sometime has a been a victim of sexual assault or if they are close to sometime who has. That is very insensitive of you. I'm sure it is obvious with the stats of sexual assault most have experienced it or know someone who has.

 

I will end with if I said anything to offend anyone on the subject I apologize as that would never be my intent.

[deborahjo]

OC, you have to calm down....don't let me agitate you so much....deep breaths....you good? [emoji38]

 

Yes, I did say I would like a curfew on ships and used 18 as the age. You can disagree, but because my opinion should differ from yours, that doesn't mean I am insulting or attacking you or anyone else. Now, I am not into the happy-happy joy-joy behavior like you apparently are. If you find me rude, ya know what, that's a you problem, not a me problem. As far as the topic of if there should be a curfew for those under 18....YES, there should. I gave my reasons in previous posts that you have gone over already because that is what you do.

 

 

 

I agree with you 100%. Curfews should be in place. Maybe then would take control of their kids better and others can enjoy their cruise also.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Forums

[bUU]

Could that actually work? Curfews? Clearly there would have to be some consequence for violating curfew. Could a cruise line legitimately get away with putting a family off the ship at the next Port if younger member of the family breaks curfew?

 

This message may have been entered using voice recognition. Please excuse any typos.

[kc58ab]

Could that actually work? Curfews? Clearly there would have to be some consequence for violating curfew. Could a cruise line legitimately get away with putting a family off the ship at the next Port if younger member of the family breaks curfew?

 

This message may have been entered using voice recognition. Please excuse any typos.

 

I would think they can apparently other lines do have curfews. What about charging a fee like night owl babysitting ...kind of joking and kind of not :confused:

[Domino D]

My intention was not that sexual assault of children is the parent's fault. Nor do I believe it is impossible for it to happen even to diligent parents. I do know that it also isn't true that it is never because of parental neglict. I never said anything to imply it is ever the victim''s fault nor would I ever think that. Please don't assume you can tell from a post if sometime has a been a victim of sexual assault or if they are close to sometime who has. That is very insensitive of you. I'm sure it is obvious with the stats of sexual assault most have experienced it or know someone who has.

 

I will end with if I said anything to offend anyone on the subject I apologize as that would never be my intent.

 

I do not for one minute think you or anyone else intended offense, or meant any harm. I don't think anyone really crossed a line. I get how you all got here, I do. It was innocent and made sense as someone reads through the thread. I am asking that you all simply continue the conversation without using sexual assault for illustration. I sincerely hope that you have not had to deal with it, and likewise am not looking to offend or accuse anyone. I am simply asking if you all can stop using such a sensitive issue as a way to illustrate an unrelated point.

[bUU]

I would think they can apparently other lines do have curfews.

What other lines have curfews and actually enforce them in a substantial way?

 

 

 

This message may have been entered using voice recognition. Please excuse any typos.

[Domino D]

Could that actually work? Curfews? Clearly there would have to be some consequence for violating curfew. Could a cruise line legitimately get away with putting a family off the ship at the next Port if younger member of the family breaks curfew?

 

This message may have been entered using voice recognition. Please excuse any typos.

 

To me that is one of the biggest issue with curfew. Will they enforce it? What are the consequences?

 

In theory they have the right to put you off the ship for anything the Captain decides. It would play as harsh in the papers, and the bad public relations may make it to hard to pull off. They could take the kid to the naughty room, and hold them until the parents came and signed them out. I would imagine if you had to go pick them up, it would have an impact.

[Domino D]

What other lines have curfews and actually enforce them in a substantial way?

 

This message may have been entered using voice recognition. Please excuse any typos.

 

Royal Caribbean did when our on was a teen, and I think they still do.

[firemanbobswife]

Could that actually work? Curfews? Clearly there would have to be some consequence for violating curfew. Could a cruise line legitimately get away with putting a family off the ship at the next Port if younger member of the family breaks curfew?

This message may have been entered using voice recognition. Please excuse any typos.

I don't know about putting them off at the next port for one infraction unless they caused damage or major disruption, but maybe a fine the first time and then a larger one along with possible debarkation the second round. If you make the fine high enough, I think you will be amazed on how many parents will actually control their offspring. Sometimes you have to hit them where it hurts in order to get the message through.

[kc58ab]

I do not for one minute think you or anyone else intended offense, or meant any harm. I don't think anyone really crossed a line. I get how you all got here, I do. It was innocent and made sense as someone reads through the thread. I am asking that you all simply continue the conversation without using sexual assault for illustration. I sincerely hope that you have not had to deal with it, and likewise am not looking to offend or accuse anyone. I am simply asking if you all can stop using such a sensitive issue as a way to illustrate an unrelated point.

 

I have no problem with your request to not use that in this conversation. You could have also just said that without some of the implications made.

 

One more point then I'm done on this subject here. People need to realize how often this does happen, it isn't rare unfortunately. To be aware of signs and not to shy away from talking about it. Many people don't report bc they feel somehow responsible and often ashamed.

[bUU]

Royal Caribbean did when our on was a teen, and I think they still do.

I have read no accounts of this sort of thing happening on Royal Caribbean or any other Cruise Line... Actual real curfews, enforced, and with substantial penalties assessed. If folks could refer to specific threads where this has been relayed to us in first-hand accounts from those who have suffered the penalty I would really love to read them.

 

This message may have been entered using voice recognition. Please excuse any typos.

[Domino D]

I have read no accounts of this sort of thing happening on Royal Caribbean or any other Cruise Line... Actual real curfews, enforced, and with substantial penalties assessed. If folks could refer to specific threads where this has been relayed to us in first-hand accounts from those who have suffered the penalty I would really love to read them.

 

This message may have been entered using voice recognition. Please excuse any typos.

 

I will be glad to search for a thread for you. I am not aware of any penalty. I can tell you, firsthand, at 1 Am teams of security swept the ship deck by deck. My son and some other were eating pizza on lido, and were told they needed to go back to their cabin. I know because I was sitting in Lido. He pointed us out, and they told him either go sit with your parents or you need to go back to your cabin. His friends could not sit with us, so he chose to go to the cabin.

[Domino D]

I have read no accounts of this sort of thing happening on Royal Caribbean or any other Cruise Line... Actual real curfews, enforced, and with substantial penalties assessed. If folks could refer to specific threads where this has been relayed to us in first-hand accounts from those who have suffered the penalty I would really love to read them.

 

This message may have been entered using voice recognition. Please excuse any typos.

 

BUU

 

Here are three threads about Royal. One from 2004, 2012, an 2017.

 

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=21604

 

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1539298

 

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/printthread.php?t=2479467

[FLSteve11]

Could that actually work? Curfews? Clearly there would have to be some consequence for violating curfew. Could a cruise line legitimately get away with putting a family off the ship at the next Port if younger member of the family breaks curfew?

 

This message may have been entered using voice recognition. Please excuse any typos.

 

Royal Caribbean has a 1am curfew for anyone under 18 who is unattended by a parent/guardian. If security spots them, they generally get their id, then walk them back to their cabin. If they go out again, they will be confined to the cabin (not sure how long, I assume a day at first). So it does work. I wont' say it's strictly enforced, though ti depends on the ship and crew.